sui-black, just wondering....

[black-tog]

Is sui black still competetive enough not to be laughed at, I mean does It have a chance against the usual type 1 control decks, Keeper, Landstill (...) and such, or will It croak in the face of danger if first/second turn disruption is not present ?

[urza_insane]

Just a quick word of warning, NEVER mention ABM in a post. Many flame wars have been started over those 3 letters.

Also, sui is still competitive in that it can win games, but don't expect to win any tournies with it.

[Kerz]

Sui has been and always will be a HUGE metagame deck. It can win in a field of all control (control isn't really a VERY good matchup, but you understand). In a field with aggro, sui will lose- badly. Long/TPS can be beaten with early duress/hymn and manabase disruption, but it depends heavily on the hands.

[glenchuy]

has anyone been trying suicide with a splash of red in it? blood moon, rack and ruin can help against suicide's more difficult matchups like dragon/workshop.  however, since i have no balls to try it in my regular t1 tourneys (i play other decks instead), i was wondering if anybody else has tried it and has good/decent results with it.

[MadManiac21]

Bloody suicide, and you can thank Mr. Broughton for that little invention.

I believe recalling that testing did not show many bad results, as bringing in bombs like Blood Moon is never really a bad thing.

As for regular suicide, I think it has some pretty good cards against a good amount of decks right now. Duress and Hymn always mess up control/combo players, and withered wretch is good against almost every single deck that is played right now.

I'm pretty sure there is someone out there who's been piloting it or playtesting it who can give you better information on it.

[black-tog]

Yeah, i run 3 Wretches and 4 Sinkholes in mine, so I should be ok then, sorry if I'm being nieve, but whats the big deal about mentioning ABM?

Fixed the typo. Next time please don't use abbreviations. Capital letters are tech.
-- Toad

[airwalk]

The problem with mentioning ABM, is because some people strongly say that it is crap, while others swear by it. Basically resulting in hugh un-constructive arguements.

[Pago]

*cough* whats abm? *cough*

as for sui, its got a fighting chance. It depends on your metagame I guess. Chalice is a toy for sui and so is sphere of resistance, but its disruption engine is very solid. I hate playing against sui with decks that can't cast answer spells right away (e.g. prison.dec), because it hurts

[Tijnie]

Suicide is having a hard time in Today's Meta. There is almost no room to fight all decks.

You can add enought Hand-hate
- Chains of mephistopheles
- Duress
- Hymns
- Theraphy
- and ofcourse Lord Hippie

With Bazaar decks and Worshop deck becoming more powerfull, you want your full pack of Strips and Sinkhole's.

Scepter is stopable with Null Rod. but Rods are really dead vs any random Agrro deck (deck like Sligh, Fish, Stompy and Madness) and it is even more Worse if those decks are unpowered.
So we can say lets use Chalice of the Void, But if you don't place it turn one (IF you can begin) it is starting to get really crappy.

For those Agrro decks, Diabolic Edict can be nice MD, it is also very nice to beat up Dragon  . You Also need around 13-14 Creature's to have any blocking chance for Agrro.


Suicide has aWeapon for every deck in Every Meta. if Mono doesn't work you can Splash it with Red of Green. But most cards are HATE cards. they will be useless in 40% of your Matchups in a Random Meta.

Suicide can win nice matchups. but in any Random Tournement it will fail.

If you are Lucky or have a serious boring Meta, Suicide might be your deck to play  

[Metanoia]

Is sui black still competetive enough not to be laughed at, I mean does It have a chance against the usual type 1 control decks, Keeper, Landstill (...) and such, or will It croak in the face of danger if first/second turn disruption is not present ?

Well I don't know about any of the new builds, but I used to play "classic Sui" and it absolutely rocked Control

Now I'm talking about the 4 Shade, 4 Negator, 4 Hippy-Sui of Yesteryear with Sinkholes, 5 Strips and either Null Rod of Powder Keg to ruin mana -bases.

So to answer your question: well, it depends on your meta.
If it really is only Control, Old Skool Sui is the perfect deck (replace Hippies, with Wretches, though)
If there is Aggro, you'll lose. If there's combo you'll have to be really lucky.

[Tijnie]

Hippy is getting Weak, with all the draw-7s and the explosive speed of today's Meta, a Hippy is nice but not a real game-winner like it used to be. Chains of Mephistopheles is getting better and better. Draw-7s, Bazaar, it works nice with Necropotence and is harder to destroy (costs 1 mana less too). The only bad thing is that it can't attack or block making the Aggro matchup even worse.

Keg can be cool in some matchups but i is so weak against powered decks because it doesn't stop any moxen for real, they can still tap it once and that one time can be too much already.

Suicide needs more cards like Necropotence   . The card-adventage you gain from discarding-tricks are only really strong in the first 2 turn, after that you will often be drawn away by your opponent or you don't draw yourself a serieus Kill-condition.

[black-tog]

well, heres the deck, i run, im pretty sure its solid,  but im just makin sure

critters:

4xnantuko shade
4xnegator
3xwretch
4xhyppie

total: 15

disruption:

4xduress
4xhymn
4xsinkhole

total: 12

removal

3xpowder keg
total: 3

restrictedness:

demonic tutor
necropotence
strip mine
yawgis win
demonic consultation

total: 5

mana:

4xdark ritual

total: 4

lands:
4x waste land
1xstrip mine
17xswamp

total: 22

total of whole deck: 60

i was also thinkin of using alot of dci foils in places pf the regulars, do u  guys think its worth it?

[black-tog]

would it be a good idea to use a lotus petal instead of a mox jet (seeing as how im still saving for one) i know its only good for 1 turn but i think it could be a reasonable idea, wat do u guys think, i am kinda new to type 1, (as if it isnt obvious).

thanks

charlie

[Tijnie]

Lotus Petal is soo good. I Play it and I got the Lotus and Jet too. Look at a Random Suicide Deck, see how mana cards you can play first turn instead of second. With Sinkhole and Hymn this is even better then with the rest.

my hardest choice for Suicide is Chalice >< Null Rod.

Null Rod is a house, once it hits play you take down so many great cards, but it is so dead vs agrro.

Chalice is nice, but when it hits play too late he really sucks.

I don't like Powder Keg, when people can play their moxen only one, it can be to late already. Espescially vs Combo (like Tendrils) Null Rod owns this card big-time.

Sinkhole can be nice, but for Combo and Agrro this cqard isn't that strong. Unless you can take out a Bazaar of Workshop.

[black-tog]

well on alot of occasions, i cna sinkhole and duress on turn 1, , and even if turn two its great, especiall when only 1 source of a certain color of mana is on the table

[shade13]

Is sui black still competetive enough not to be laughed at, I mean does It have a chance against the usual type 1 control decks, Keeper, Landstill (...) and such, or will It croak in the face of danger if first/second turn disruption is not present ?

                            YES!!! sui is very good but then again i have a decussion on my main deck sui going so

[kuwv]

I think sui is missing a better pool of 1cc spells to abuse to actually become Tier 1. Sacromancy + Carnophage + Duress + Dark Ritual are all cool but all pretty much suck in the late game without necro or will. I also think that they don't draw enough/ or do enough damage compared with other decks + lack of artifact hate   .

Then again Chalice + Trinisphere may open new opertunities