Mixing Mike's 'Keeper" List

[Mixing Mike]

// Mana
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Library of Alexandria
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Strip Mine
    3 Tundra
    3 Underground Sea
    3 Volcanic Island
    4 Wasteland
    1 Island

// Creatures
    2 Gorilla Shaman
    1 Morphling
    1 Masticore

// Spells
    1 Ancestral Recall
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Cunning Wish
    1 Demonic Tutor
    4 Force of Will
    4 Mana Drain
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Time Walk
    1 Yawgmoth's Will
    2 Fire/Ice
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Skeletal Scrying
    1 Fact or Fiction
    1 Balance
    1 Mind Twist
    2 Stifle

// Sideboard
SB: 1 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Vampiric Tutor
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 2 Rack and Ruin
SB: 1 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 2 Serenity
SB: 3 Tsabo's Web

It's not to special, but it's got some hate for the Green Aggro decks around the field, which is always good.  Masticore is the latest addition.  I haven't really played to much with it yet to call it him 'official'.  I put him in for all the known reasons and because he doesn't die to Nevy's Disk and all of the common artifact removal.

The 2 Serenities were 2 Damping Matrix when I was running 1 Morphling and 1 Decree for win conditions.  They're not really a part of the deck, just something I've wanted to fiddle with.  I really have no idea what I'd run in that spot when running Masticore, as I haven't gotten enough games in with it yet to call him in.  I'd love to say Tormod's Crypt, but I haven't had any need for it at all lately.  The 2 MD Stifles have been enough to stop most Dragon players and a well timed FoW has still been doing it's job vs. TPS.

I know I cut a Wish for the Abyss, but there wasn't to much else I could take out.  I also know the framework is just about the same as Zherbus', but his list played everything I wanted to, and then I made it 'my deck' with my changes.  I really haven't missed Wish #3, becasue it's not like I wish for many bombs or to many situational cards (ie. Misdirection).  I like The Abyss, becasue it keeps Welder from turning left more than once, and stops Togs right out more often than not.  It also has the useful advantages vs. Fish and aggro decks as well.

A few people have read that I feel that the high skill level of combo decks recently have discouraged a lot of people from playing combo decks.  I feel this is the reason why aggro has been running rampant lately.  I also see a lot of people testing out aggro decks to explore new archtypes as well.  Going on those two statements (as bold as they are) as well as this quote by bebe speaking about control:

It can win in any meta. We don't see it winning as often as before because it is not being played by the top players as much.

I'd like to say that the forgotten archtype will prove to be quite strong in the future (there's that bold thing again...)

[DEA]

I like The Abyss, becasue it keeps Welder from turning left more than once, and stops Metalworkers right out

huh?

[urza_insane]

I think Decree is much better than fling any way you look at it. I would drop morphling for 1 in a heartbeat. Try to make room for more. If you still want an abyss 'like' thingy try moat. The lattest aggro wont have many problems running over an abyss, moat can be tougher though.

[Kerz]

Moat also cost double white, and can't kill welders. I'm not sure how easily new aggro could run over abyss with keeper having drains, plows, and fire/ices. I don't condone abyss at all, but yeah, it is good versus aggro  :lol: .

Personnally, I think that keeper is long past the Morpling (or even worse, Masticore) kill. It is clunky and slow, unlike decree which not only can be cast at your opponent's end of turn, but also replaces itself.

[rozetta]

Card Title:   Abyss, The
Color:      Black
Card Type:   Enchant World
Cost:      3B
Pow/Tgh:   n/a
Card Text:   All players bury one target non-artifact creature under
      their control, if they have any, during their upkeep.
Artist:      Pete Venters
Rarity:      Rare 1

It doesn't deal with Metalworkers.

[Spizzard]

Moat also cost double white, and can't kill welders. I'm not sure how easily new aggro could run over abyss with keeper having drains, plows, and fire/ices. I don't condone abyss at all, but yeah, it is good versus aggro  .

While Moat can't kill welders, it isn't too hard to deal with them with asaid plows and fire/ices.  I'd run Abyss over Moat, this allows your Masticore as well as Morphling to attack, and not just the Morphling.

As said earlier, I would definitely add Decree's.  Being able to get around Standstills and having an uncounterable win condition is what makes Keeper more dangerous.  The fact that when you cycle it, you don't lose card advantage is gravy.

[FireFall26]

Decree is a better kill in every way..It cant be couneted, and you can cast it for 4/4 flyers  vs aggro, or even fish.  Tsabo's Web is crap as wel.  Ive never had trouble with manlands, with 5 wastelands and remova spells.

[glenchuy]

instead of webs and serenity, have you tried powder keg? it's nice to wipe out green decks with it

[Master Tap]

The serenitys are for the artifact prision match, and the webs are for landstill. The maindeck itself lends to greens demise so non wishable removal becomes a hassle. Plz next time think before posting crap   .

[THENATE]

the deck looks fine. It seems like it would handle aggro but make sure ur prepared for long. Its an underated dck. It will become a really good deck again. and what he posted isnt crap master tap

[Mixing Mike]

Wow, so bad.  Abyss killing Metalworkers.  It's more like Tog's, but I was tired last night.  That's what I get.

Decree is a better kill in every way. It cant be couneted, and you can cast it for 4/4 flyers  vs aggro, or even fish.  Tsabo's Web is crap as wel.  I've never had trouble with manlands, with 5 wastelands and removal spells.

Decree vs. Morphling:

Decree:
Pros:
-Uncounterable instant speed with EOT Cycling 1/1's
-Non ReB-able

Cons:
-Non reccurable will Yawgmoth's Will
-Tokens bend over to mass removal (Keg, Disk, etc)
-6 (or more) mana for 1 (or more) 4/4('s), with a WW casting cost, at sorcery speed

Morphling:
Pros:
-UU Casting Cost
-Less initial mana investment than Decree
-Reccurable with Yawgmoth's Will
-Only dies to Nevy's Disk (that's played as of late)
Cons:
-Counterable
-Sorcery speed

The 'X turn clock' has never really been much of a statement.  No matter what win condition you're running, it usually goes all the way anyways.

As for Tsabo's Web, it let's me attack manabase of Fish, Dragon, and Landstill with my early Wastelands.  I find myself gaining a huge ammount of leverage over them early on with a good mana denail plan with Web's to lean on for a final touch.

[/rant]Check this one out guys.  I'm not trying to tell you what to play, and I'm not trying to tell you what win conditions are better.  If you played in my meta, then you may just have the same build.  It's obviously geared towards a very aggro metagame, with a few Bazaars running around.  I figured that I wouldn't have to post that, but I guees I jsut can't let people assume that I'm trying to set a 'standard'.[/endrant]

[nietzreznor]

I would definitely re-find room for Damping Matrix (it's good versus so many decks).  This would be yet another reason to run decrees over moprphling/masticore, and lose the abyss.

[Zherbus]

"Non reccurable with Yawgmoth's Will" - You can hard cast one Angel Token under a Will fairly easily.

"6 (or more) mana for 1 (or more) 4/4('s), with a WW casting cost, at sorcery speed" - Or 6 mana for three 1/1's and your card back.

"Less initial mana investment than Decree " - 5 Mana to play, then at least one more to keep it alive until the next turn. That's 6 mana minimum. At 6 mana, you ambushed your opponent with a suprise of 3 1/1's that didn't cost you a single card in hand or the risk of leaving yourself open on the opponets mainphase.

Also:

Morphling doesn't work under Damping Matrix.

Morphling is a dead draw until far later in the game than Decree, which can cycle much earlier to help you find solutions or draw. This is especially important in a metagame where disruption is a heavy element.

[wuaffiliate]

the only real reason to play morphling over decree is if all you see is aggro, i play it in a tourney i attend that has low ammounts of power but alot of aggro. fling deals with aggro much better, in an aggro metagame i run 2 flings and 1 trenches.

also, morphling just destroys oshawa stompy.

[Jakedasnake]

How does Masticore stop Oshawa Stompy? Every creature it runs can either pump itself up (Basking Rootwalla, Wild Mongrel) or is out of kill range (Arrogant Wurm, Hidden Gibbons) or unkillable (Troll Ascetic). I doubt Masticore would do much in this matchup, as they'd be running you down and getting large card advantage with Bazaar/SotF, while you discard a card during your upkeep.

Morphling has already been discussed.

[Mixing Mike]

Matt said this on Zherbus' thread in the T1 forumn:

Well, if your metagame is such that The Abyss and/or Moat are still strong maindeck choices, then Morphling gets the nod over either Trenches or Decree.

I think that sums it up.

@Jakedasnake: How does Masticore stop Oshawa Stompy?  It blocks and regens.  This match is mostly about board position from my experiences with it, and Masticore doesn't get killed by anything they run with a measly 2 mana open.  That's some good stuff.

@Zherbus: Are you saying you'd still run Decree in an aggro heavy meta?
"Less initial mana investment than Decree " - 5 Mana to play, then at least one more to keep it alive until the next turn. That's 6 mana minimum.
Who can kill a Morphling after it hits the table?  I only see direct_damage.dec causing me to tap that extra 1 mana.

@nietzreznor:  There's no need for me to play Damping Matrix.  I believe that I can safely say that any creature that has an activated ability that is trouble in the format isn't found where I play this list.

[Zherbus]

@Zherbus: Are you saying you'd still run Decree in an aggro heavy meta?

Yes, Decree doubles nicely as free spot removal for weenies. It works better with Humility to boot.

"Less initial mana investment than Decree " - 5 Mana to play, then at least one more to keep it alive until the next turn. That's 6 mana minimum.
Who can kill a Morphling after it hits the table? I only see direct_damage.dec causing me to tap that extra 1 mana.

My point is that Morphling needs that extra mana to avoid being killed, which adds to the 'initial investment'.

[glenchuy]

isn't humility + decree  better than abyss/moat + morphling against alot of aggro?

[Jakedasnake]

Hell yes. In fact, Humility has been nothing but excellent in every matchup I've played in, aside from combo. I'm starting to think I might up the white sources, and play one maindeck.

Believe me, Masticore isn't much of a problem for Oshawa Stompy. If you can play it around the 5 strip effects, and still keep two mana open to regenerate it the turn you play it, then I need to take lessons from you.

[Chaos Blade]

Finally some repmatation on Humilty. Ive been loving, its a horse of its own color in the board. Its a beast dropping it against TnT etc. I might drop my maindeck D-Blow for it since thats not doing that great but who knows.

[Viceroy]

I run Humility maindeck( aggro metagame), i suggest you to drop a volcanic for another tundra or a city of brass.

Personally, I think masticore is not a great option because the drawback
is horrible for keeper.
Actually I am running 2 decrees and 1 scepter instead of trenches. What do you think about 1 scepter???

[glenchuy]

the humility also stops dragon if you get it into play fast enough  i used to run masticore too, because my meta is predominantly aggro, i've actually tried a lot of combinations of morphling, masticore, moat, abyss- and masticore was usually the weakest link, followed by moat.  but i'm now using humility + decree, which is better imo, since it also slows dragon (lot of budget versions being played around here)

[Jakedasnake]

Humility doesn't seem like an excellent card against dragon. Sure, off a lotus with counter back up, it means game. But if you actually have to pay the 2WW, I don't think you're going to have an easy time of it.

[Chaos Blade]

In this current metagame do you guys think Humilty warrants a maindeck or side spot?

[Mixing Mike]

In this current metagame do you guys think Humilty warrants a maindeck or side spot?

If it were to be included, then 2 Decree would be brought back in.

Humility doesn't seem like an excellent card against dragon. Sure, off a lotus with counter back up, it means game. But if you actually have to pay the 2WW, I don't think you're going to have an easy time of it.

It's really not to hard to build a mana base to 4 mana as long as it's fully powered.  The WW does concern me, but I usually find the 2 Stifle, 2 Swords, and 3 Webs to be enough to stop it.  If a Humility was to take over for The Abyss, then I'd still play the Dragon matchup as I do now.  I'll get together with some people this week and see what goes down.

[glenchuy]

Humility doesn't seem like an excellent card against dragon. Sure, off a lotus with counter back up, it means game. But if you actually have to pay the 2WW, I don't think you're going to have an easy time of it.

it's really not that hard to play it, i run the 5 fetchland version, so getting WW isn't that hard.  anyway, i was comparing it with the abyss/moat which both costs 4, but doesn't do anything against dragon.

[kirdape3]

Dragon will have an answer for Humility if you give it enough time, anyways.  They do run Chain of Vapor if I recall correctly.

[BreathWeapon]

I ran Humility MD in Iso-Keeper for its synergy with Fire/Ice and Decree of Justice about a month and a half ago when play testing for the Jan 1st meta. I expected FAT based Aggro to show up a lot in my Meta when I included it. Short of TPS, I never found it to be a dead card in the MD. WW can be a little difficult to come by at times, but its not impossible to do. I think Keeper can afford to take a page out of the Parfait hand book for once and include a MD Humility. Nothing says, "Die TnT" like Humility does, and there is a definate sense of irony here when you consider that TnT's creature base was deseigned to circumvent The Abyss and Moat. Its only just that Humility takes their place in the MD or SB as a hoser for TnT.

Its a hell of a lot cheaper to.

[Jakedasnake]

I've found myself liking Humility more and more. I've finally put one in the maindeck, and I'm testing the results.

[memoryjarvis07]

I'm kinda running a keeper at the moment it needs a lot of tuning though and so far its kinda budget no power no abyss. i have my deck list on newbie forums if anyone here can help me out a little itll be much appreciated and for the deck it looks real good a lot better than mine lol