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Sytupal
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« on: January 25, 2004, 03:25:13 am » |
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The List:
Deck Eating 101 4 Bazaar of Baghdad 4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
In Addition to... 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Demonic Tutor 3 Intuition 2 Lim-Dul's Vault
"When they land on you, all you can think about is tearing them off" 3 Xantid Swarm 3 Force of Will 3 Stifle
Enchant Dead Creature 3 Animate Dead 3 Necromancy 2 Dance of the Dead
Compulsion's In the Win Condition list? 4 Worldgorger Dragon 2 Compulsion 1 Sliver Queen 1 Ambassador Laquatus
You're Way too Mana Light 1 Black Lotus 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Sapphire 1 Mox Emerald 1 Sol Ring 4 Polluted Delta 2 Underground Sea 3 Swamp 2 Island 1 Forest 1 Bayou 1 Tropical Island
Board of Siding 4 Pernicious Deed 4 Verdant Force 3 Tormod's Crypt 1 Necromancy 3 Null Rod
Okay, It's three weeks ago and i decide that Dragon is just still doing fantastic. IT's leveling off as still one of the best Archtypes. I'll have fun and build my own competitive version. Waterbury, Dragon is like a ghosttown, non existant, anyone that did play it was hated out until they dropped. I pile up all these cards and feel just fantastic about the new build..Absolutely peachy...... So I've decided to be that lone Dragon player that sneaks through cracks every once in awhile and make a build that possibly beats out the hate.
My Card Choices: "In addition to..." Ancestral: This draw was a must from the start, more important than Timewalk.
Vampiric/Demonic: I have seen no reason why taking out Demonic is a good thing. Vampiric is great as an eot spell but demonic is a game winner during your turn post swarm attacks.
Intuition: If i were to run a monoblack build that is more easily hated than this i would run buried alive over this, but the instant eot aspect is a huge deal.
Lim-Dul's Vault: A much more effective Vampiric Tutor? YES. I think if more people thought of it this way more often it'd see more play.
"When They Land..." Xantid Swarm: This card is a bigger house than anything i've used before against control. They counter i animate, they vindicate/kill i animate. They swords i say "woohoo, one less swords going after my dragon."
Force of Will: I have 14 pitch cards over an above The FoW about to be used. This includes one of my two win conditions simply because i only need one. This has become more useful than ever in all situations.
Stifle: Besides being a pitch to FoW this card is extremely crucial early game in giving you tempo and killing your opponents tempo. First turn dropping "dual, go" is a prime target for most people wasteland wise, and if not and they're slow enough to fetch same turn, stifle comes in handy.
"Enchant Dead Creature" An abundance of animate spell were always important to draw out counters, however an early game xantid without any response is better than anything else. That's why i've cut my animate spell list down to 8. The 3 Necromancies are key in the control matchup if they get rid of my swarms. The Dance of the Dead's have been cut to 2 simply because i would need to pay to untap it if i was forced to animate a verdant force in games 2 or 3.
"Win Condition List" Compulsion belongs in this list. If Bazaar was not in the Engine list it too would be here. Dropping a worldgorger without having an ambassador with either this and a blue mana out in play or having a bazaar and 1 mana of any color out in play may be a little risky but with all the backup an early game win is easy with this deck. I chose Sliver Queen over Verdant Force. I can Necromancy against a cycled Fleet of Soldier tokens and chump block with 30 slivers per soldier and still have plenty enough to kill my opponent the next turn. The Verdant Forces go into the Sideboard to allow for a better matchup in the Artifact prison games.
"Mana Situation" My Mana base is very important right now. Bloodmoon is rampant, PoP is showing it's head and 4 wastelands are running away with every nonbasic land you have. I opened up my manabase much more securely, giving me more basic lands, less nonbasic lands and less duals. Necessary in todays meta.
The Sideboard The Sideboard is very self explainitory. The Verdants are in abundance due to artifact prison and slower control decks. The Null rods are crazy. I love them. Against almost everything. Pernicious Deeds are a house against all and the lone fourth necromancy is needed. It's almost as if playing all these necromancies is card for card counterwar.
This is a healthy spam free post. All spammers will from now on be severely disliked by me. I Really like my build guys and gals however if something is extremely lacking or missing please make note. If Whatever you say has already been thought of I'll give my explainations and if it hasn't been thought of and seems logical i can definitely playtest. The Deck description was a little slow but it's a house against the now lesser builds like Gay/R and ankh sligh. Some Very counter heavy decks(16+) give me issues but i can usually "out fast effect" them.
Thanks everyone for reading and taking the time to jot down thoughts. -Sytupal
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Signature, Smignature, Isn't this where people should write there name illegibly?
Team CCC.
Minsc And Boo And You!.
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Astro
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« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2004, 05:11:09 am » |
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I have to say, I really like your build. However, concerning the mana base which you already mentioned was a bit light (I counted 19), don't you feel 20-22 sources would be a little more solid? Personally, I already feel a little unsteady in my build which runs 21. Off color moxen and/or Mana Crypt seem as not a shitty solution.
I also noticed Diceman has been running Xantids, how are they holding up for you guys? I've been interested but haven't play tested them yet. I've been comfortably running Duress, and they work great for me. My reasoning is: A first turn Duress hits Counters, Plows, Root Maze, Ankh, Ground Seal, and Tormod's Crypt, heck even less likely played hate such as Planar Void or even Humility. Xantid only stops Counters and Plows to my knowledge, it also requires a splash of green, and can easily be the target of burn and multiple other types of removal. Like I said, I haven't play tested them yet, just curious as to the reasoning over good ol' Duress which doesn't have these draw backs.
Anyway, that was a decent read. Nice deck!
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Spizzard
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« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2004, 07:53:17 am » |
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I don't really understand the Xantid Swarm's maindeck. They are excellent in the sideboard, but against some decks, they just aren't needed, which is why i've always considered them a sideboard card. I think you should move 2-3 of the pernicious deeds maindeck in place of the Swarms. Deed's are good against the artifact matchup and aggro, as well as causing problems for combo. If you don't want Deed's maindeck, i'd consider duress. Althought, without it, you play more aggressively and often win a turn earlier, but duress can be the added protection that you need.
No Time Walk? I would run it for sure, it'll allow the extra one turn to set up your combo.
Why aren't you running the off color moxen? The accel is much needed in dragon... Intuitions, animate spells and so on.
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Ghost
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« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2004, 08:38:16 am » |
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Just a thought, have you tried chain of vapor? It's probaboly not as good as stifle but it may be useful. (bouncing ankhs/ tormod's crypts/wurm tokens) Also, why only 3 force of will?
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RoadTrippin
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« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2004, 09:22:49 am » |
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One thing- Compulsion is meant to be played as an engine with Squee. If you think about it, Bazaar is exactly as much of an "I win" card as Compulsion, and both are parts of excrutiangly powerful engines.
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Sytupal
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« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2004, 09:55:22 am » |
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@Astro: I Do feel the short amount of mana in my deck, but i don't feel that my manabase is weak. If i could do anything it would be to add the off color moxen, however, finding room is my issue. Xantid Swarms absolutely rock. The top decks have conters galore and other decks could be running stp, bolt/fireblast, chain of vapor etc. Preventing this is crucial. And by crucial I mean better than duress in every way. I took out duress so i could find room for these guys. Simply, if i come up against a stompy build i will side them out. but I'd rather have a better game 1 matchup against control or aggro/control builds.
@Spizzard: Again, moxen wise, i agree, however finding room is the issue. Time Walk was in my deck i i stated in the initial post. There simply wasn't room if i was going to keep this a 60 card deck. That was what i pulled.
@Ghost: The Only reason i don't like Chain of vapor is the fact that it can't stop gaea's blessing. The Ankhs are painful but if i do come across them i'll just need to go off fast, beat them with a beastly creature, or wait til game 2 and 3 when my deck becomes reanimator with pernicious deeds. hehe About the Force of Wills, it was simply a judgement call.
Trippin: Both Bazaars and Compulsion go through your library like nothing else. I'm aware of the powerful engine it is. Allowing me to win without laquatus in the graveyard and if i have cards in my hand already when i go off i can go draw for draw and fix up my hand readying itself with stifles/counters. I felt compulsion deserved the "Win condition" slot over the engine simply because its under-rated.
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Signature, Smignature, Isn't this where people should write there name illegibly?
Team CCC.
Minsc And Boo And You!.
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MadManiac21
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« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2004, 10:18:38 am » |
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I personally think you should be running duress and xantd swarm maindecked. They both help you go off a turn sooner/when you want. Running both makes sure you're going to see one either a) in your opening hand or b) soon thereafter because of bazaar. Duress is never a dead card in this deck as it can ensure/greatly help you going off that turn or the following. Xantd swarm is another must stop card for control decks, as if they don't rid themselves of it in 2 turns or less, you will most likely win or have already won.
The big thing that makes dragon so good is its threat density and ability to go off. You're running 8 animate effects; that's 8 MUST counter cards in your deck. Duress and xantid might as well also be considered danergerous or even threats, as you are greatly enhancing your likelihood (or percentages) of winning the game. Casting duress, then following up with a xantid is unbelievably deadly.
I think you need to run both in today's meta with all the hate running about. Duress hits all the ground seals/deeds/crypts/stifles/sword/counters etc. that stop you cold, while xantid also stops counterspells/stifles/swords. I would consider a 3/3 or a 4/2 choice, as then you're adding 6 cards minimum that suppliment your 8 winning cards.
Edit: Why so many basic lands? I could see 1 island and 1 swamp, but what you have now looks too much in comparison to past dragon builds (name Bowers', but i don't remember the exact mana count in his deck).
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Team Hadley: ALL YOUR MOX ARE BELONG TO US Red Sox: 2004 AND 2007 World Series Champs! I pray to Tom Brady.
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Sytupal
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« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2004, 10:25:01 am » |
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See, being on Cape Cod, I'm a little out of the constantly changing metagame and only get to see it when lovely people come down and play. So me keeping on top of things is a bit tough. But Bloodmoons don't seem to be going anywhere any time soon and wastelands are awful to run into. I suppose this just leaves them with my bazaars as targets if i only have basics out but i can win without bazaar, its just an incredible engine. If I'm wrong please someone make note however i think we need to go back to the older basic land-esque build to make us more stable.
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Signature, Smignature, Isn't this where people should write there name illegibly?
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Minsc And Boo And You!.
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Eastman
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« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2004, 11:44:50 am » |
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I've been working on Dragon as well.
I maindeck chain of vapor, it works very well.
4 FoW, 4 Xantid Swarm is the best disruption base right now.
Caller of the Claw is a far better choice than Sliver Queen. Damping Matrix and Root Maze are both very prevalent right now, and Caller of the Claw unlike any other option allows you to go off right around them.
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Astro
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« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2004, 03:43:51 pm » |
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I've got to be missing something. I've been seeing Xantids getting a lot of attention lately concerning Dragon, but I'm still confused as to why? I'm also dissatisfied with the explanations thus far. In my reasoning Duress is still more logical. I went over this lightly in my earlier post, but I want to elaborate.
1). A first turn Duress stops: Counters, Plows (removal), Ankh, Root Maze, Ground Seal, Tormod's Crypt, ect... While a first turn Xantid only stops: Counters and Plows (removal).
2). Duress isn't as easily a target. Xantid can be blocked and/or removed quite easily. Heck even a Cloud of Faeries or a Faery Conclave can stop him. Not to mention removal such as Kegs, Fire/Ice, Bolts, Deed, Disk, even Plows.
3). Duress deals with the problem right then and there, Xantid requires a turn to set up called summoning sickness.
4). Is it worth splashing green for Xantid's limited protection, when you can just run Duress instead and keep it U/B?
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dicemanx
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« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2004, 04:48:44 pm » |
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I have addressed many of the issues in this post: http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29The comparison is not between Xantid and Duress, its between Xantid and FoW. For me, FoW is not enough any more to get past all of the hate. Xantids are a meta choice - they are designed to battle though instant speed hate, which is starting to be more prevalent. Xantid can be blocked and/or removed quite easily. Heck even a Cloud of Faeries or a Faery Conclave can stop him. Not to mention removal such as Kegs, Fire/Ice, Bolts, Deed, Disk, even Plows.
The only relevant card listed there is Fire/Ice. Xantid's ability still triggers even if it's blocked, and StP and Disk are "bait" to be wasted on the Xantid. Keg isn't used much. Even vs Fire/Ice, Xantids can be reanimated. Re: Chain of Vapor and Stifle - I just don't know how you guys find the room. Cutting down the mana sources to 18-19 is extremely risky. Even then, Stifle is of limited use and it has no proactive uses, so you cannot use it to force through the combo. If you're using Stifle defensively, try again. Matching up responses with threats is generally a bad idea. Eastman's MD Chains, on the other hand, make more sense if you're worried about MD permanent hate like Root Maze and Disk.
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Without cultural sanction, most or all our religious beliefs and rituals would fall into the domain of mental disturbance. ~John F. Schumaker
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Astro
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« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2004, 05:12:43 pm » |
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Thanks for the reply Diceman. I remembered seeing that list at some point and thought you were running 4 FoW main deck. I like the current changes and am fairly satisfied with the disruption base of 4 Duress and 4 Xantids. Also, have you tested splashing white for Orim's Chant over Xantid? Just something I've been play testing lately.
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dicemanx
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« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2004, 05:20:02 pm » |
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I like to keep green over white because green has the almightly Pernicious Deed, and Xantids can be reanimated when countered. Not so with Chants. The other problem with Chant is that you need to spend 1 mana during the turn you're going off, which taxes your mana and could delay your kill. Chants were looked at at some point in the evolution of Bazaar-Dragon, but they never seemed to work out they way that they were supposed to. Maybe someone could come up with a working list, but it's not something that I would test myself personally right now.
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Without cultural sanction, most or all our religious beliefs and rituals would fall into the domain of mental disturbance. ~John F. Schumaker
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Ghost
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« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2004, 05:51:28 pm » |
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@diceman x- I use chains because I'm an extremly budget player. Ex. I just got 3 unerground seas last week, and force of wills the week before). Because of my lack of bazaars  . I use a lot more disruption. Ex. Duress, chain, unmask, stifle (not all at same time) to try to make up for it. Yes the deck is slower, no it doesn't work as well, but that seems to be the best way to go budgetwise. (very budgetwise). I would add green but if I buy more duals my parents will flip. On 5-proxy days things are diffrent because I have bazaars to go w/ squee etc.
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Sytupal
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« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2004, 11:39:18 pm » |
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I hadn't fully thought about Chain of Vapor and it surely sounds better than Stifle in almost all aspects. I'll definitely give it the maindeck slot over stifle after a few games of successful playtesting. - My only hesitation is the prominence of Gaea's Blessing around here. It veers its head in the local tournaments often. In a bigger tournament more competitively oriented the Chains would most definitely be a must.
From what I'm reading should i run Duress over Force? Huh? I don't see why? The Duress come, yes, but as you said with the Orim's Chant, so goes the Duress. It requires an extra mana before going off. The force of will however is insane. Countless times I've forced something targeting my Xantid Swarm only to have my opponent go "oh WTF, i counter the counter only to leave myself counterless and therefore defeating the purpose."
It does require me to have more mana free at the time i go off but caller is very cool. Thanks guys for the replies. I'll be writing a more extensive post tomorrow refering to updates with the deck and some more playtesting results. Thanks Everyone.
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Signature, Smignature, Isn't this where people should write there name illegibly?
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Minsc And Boo And You!.
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mouth
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« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2004, 05:12:44 am » |
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A single Coffin Purge in the board helps against Gaea's Blessing. To elaborate:
1) You mill them with Ambassad0r. 2) Blessing trigger goes on the stack. 3) You mill yourself until Purge is in your graveyard. 4) Flash it back, targeting Blessing. 5) Let the trigger resolve. 6) Re-mill them.
You're running 3 Tormod's Crypt in the board, and while it hurts against the Tog matchup, running 2 Crypt's and a Coffin Purge may be a good solution.
Chain of Vapor is also the rox0rz, you can even bounce your own Swarm, if you needed. Just don't cast it with a Dragon in play.
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Ghost
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« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2004, 03:15:29 pm » |
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Edit This is off-topic and also in the wrong forum. Don't post like this again.
-Jacob Orlove
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Astro
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« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2004, 04:19:31 pm » |
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Personally, I would only feel comfortable with 16 or more blue cards, but thats just me. As Diceman pointed out, he has dropped them entirely for this exact reason, and has opted for 4 Xantids and 4 Duress which are less conditional as to how many blue cards your holding. I did a little testing with the Xantids last night, and I have to agree they hold were holding thier wieght for me.
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Masticor
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« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2004, 02:52:30 pm » |
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The problem about Xandit swarm is that they are easy targets for Fire and you have to wait another round till you can attack with them. I have testet them against ISO Control and i had expect they would do better ;-( i am not really confident. The reason to Change the Force of Will to Swarms sounds logical theoreticaly but practically ???
What Sideboard Cards do you use esprecially against ISO ??
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BrokenNut
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« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2004, 05:52:43 pm » |
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Xantids are still amazing despite Fire/Ice. And there isn't much of that you have to usually worry about anyways. Unless there is a lot of UR fish or Gay/r in which case I wouldn't touch dragon in that meta because of all the hate they have, wastelands, stifles, forces, fire/ice, perhaps drains, stupid hatchlings, null rods and god knows what in the board.
Plus if need be, you can burn an animate spell on a Xantid Swarm to get it back.
Waiting the extra turn for them to become active is not an issue since they stop ALL the instant speed hate in the opponents hand, whereas Force/Duress only stops 1 instant hate card. Unless they are going to win in that turn, it's not really a serious issue. And what ISO decks bust out a 1 turn win anways, though Chant in a stick is very close.
Against Iso decks, try bringing in any extra deeds you have. I've even been putting City of Solitude in my board because it stops instant hate as well as ground based hate such as crypts, seals, and wretches.
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Mishra's Factory count: 235 Need more, if you have any, PM, I will trade/buy.
If we keep abusing Goblin Welders like this, eventually they are all going to go on strike.
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Sytupal
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« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2004, 03:04:24 am » |
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Right now I'm using Defense Grid over City of Solitude in my sideboard simply because it's the colorless version - within reason. This as a first turn drop just rocks.
Xantids are amazing and this is why i run 3 maindecked.
However, I'm wondering if Duress being maindecked over Duress is the correct move. The blue cards required to Force are not a problem. I can always find them, what is a problem though is pitching cards i don't want to. Running duress instead would prevent this issue?. If Duress proves to be maindecked worthy I will need to run additional black sources because my basic land count is so high i need Black production.
Maybe I'll make the Forest a Bayou instead. I think that'd be the right way to go.
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Signature, Smignature, Isn't this where people should write there name illegibly?
Team CCC.
Minsc And Boo And You!.
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Masticor
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« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2004, 11:13:31 am » |
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How do you Sideboard? Well i have got some problems to find room for enough stuf against keeper. 2 verdant Forces, 3 Pernicious Deeed , maybe 2 Defense Grid? but what do you guys side out? Especially against ISOKeeper i want to leave the 4 Squees in the Deck for the drawing engine which is quite important against ISO. Compulsion is also quite important like Intuition to get a dragon in the Graveyard and the drawing engine started. But well the Xandits are ok if the opponent can`t deal with it  Deed are also great against ISO and i thing The defense Grid is a nice Idea! Why don`t you play Cunning Wish in your MD ... it is quite useful first you can use it as alternate Win condition or you can search for things like Stifle, (Stroke), Chain of Vaipor or Rebuild..
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Petko
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« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2004, 10:58:39 pm » |
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From my experience playing Dragon with maindeck Xantid Swarms, I can say that they have only been stellar.
Dragon is a deck that is quite easy to hate out; the Worldgorger combo itself is very susceptible to hate cards such as Seal of Cleansing, Root Maze, Withered Wretch, Tormod's Crypt, Coffin Purge, Swords to Plowshares, Stifle, Diabolic Edict, and the list goes on. Xantid Swarms deal with a lot of this hate. More specifically, the ones at instant speed. They ensure that your opponent cannot counter your combo elements nor can they disrupt the combo itself.
Force of Will is not good at this because a smart opponent will wait to disrupt your combo as you mill your library with Bazaar of Baghdad to find your kill card. By using Bazaar to search, this means you won't have any cards in hand, leaving you vulnerable to hate. The only instance where Force of Will would be decent in this situation is if 'going off' using Compulsion. Xantids will ensure that your opponent will not be able to stop you during combo, regardless of how many cards in hand.
The only thing good about Force of Will in this deck is it's ability to stop the other hate cards. These include stuff like Seal or Wretch. The ability to say "no" is quite good, but in a deck that can only dedicate so many slots towards disruption, and where Duress is strictly better, Force of Will simply does not make the cut.
Playing Green for Xantid Swarms over Force of Wills also lets you run Pernicious Deeds. Deeds act as the answer to the other hate that Xantids simply cannot deal with. However, most versions only run Pernicious Deeds in their sideboards. I have had some experiences where my opponent would cast maindeck hate cards such as Withered Wretch. Some versions of Oshawa Stompy also run Ground Seal and/or Root Maze maindeck. These are the times where you just have to bite your lip as they're very difficult to play around - just hope for the best game two.
Addressing the argument that Xantid Swarms aren't really good because they die to stuff like Fire/Ice or Swords to Plowshares... NO SHIT! Does that make them bad? Not at all! If they divert removal spells from Worldgorger Dragon (with the exception of Fire/Ice), then great. I've had opponents counter my Xantids or Stifled their ability so many times as one swing will mean doom for them. Summoning sickness is irrelevant as whatever additional cards your opponent can possibly draw to stop the combo is negated by one swing.
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Different name, same Frenchie!
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Dante
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« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2004, 03:07:28 pm » |
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Personally, I would only feel comfortable with 16 or more blue cards, but thats just me. As Diceman pointed out, he has dropped them entirely for this exact reason, and has opted for 4 Xantids and 4 Duress which are less conditional as to how many blue cards your holding. I did a little testing with the Xantids last night, and I have to agree they hold were holding thier wieght for me. with regards to the number of blue cards, you shouldn't be using FoW in a combo deck like you would in a control deck. In the control deck, you expect to have to Force multiple times per game. In a combo deck, you usually can only afford/need to Force once, so you can get away with running less blue spells (like 12-13 or so) and it's much more acceptable to pitch a Force to a Force since you're looking for a quick end, not a longer game. Dante
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Team Laptop
I hate people. Yes, that includes you. I'm bringing sexy back
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bebe
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« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2004, 03:19:09 pm » |
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I've always had Xantids in my deck but then I played B/g spolis. I think the question is wether or not they belong main deck or sideboard. StPs are welcome against my xantids - rather them then my Dragon. Against control you now have them wasting their counters on the Xantids or not using them at all. Supplemented by Duress, Unmask or Therapies it makes for a tough match up for control. Dragon really worries most about Blood Moons, Root Mazes and Crypts. These are your toughest cards to deal with. Green is essential for Deeds coming out the side to handle these. Control is not that tough as the deck is quite redundant and can really give it headaches.
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Rarely has Flatulence been turned to advantage, as with a Frenchman referred to as "Le Petomane," who became affluent as an effluent performer who played tunes with the gas from his rectum on the Moulin Rouge stage.
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BreathWeapon
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« Reply #25 on: February 01, 2004, 04:57:56 pm » |
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Well, I just lost 9 Paragraphs worth of insight so i'll keep this short.
B/G Spoils-Dragon is an incredibly potent force in the metagame. It has the speed to circumvent hate B/U/g can't. Its more consistant, and I belive its the best Combo Deck and the best Budget Deck in the game right now.
B/G Spoils-Dragon
Combo 4xWorldgorger Dragon 1xSliver Queen 1xCaller of the Claw 1xAmbassador Laquatos
Outlets 4xBuried Alive 4xBazaar of Baghdad
Animates 4xAnimate Dead 4xDance of the Dead
Search 1xDemonic Tutor 1xDemonic Consultation 4xSpoils of the Vault
Disruption 4xUnmask 4xDuress
Acceleration 4xDark Ritual 4xElvish Spirit Guide
Manabase 4xFetch Lands 4xBayou 7xSwamp
Sideboard 4xXantid Swarms 4xSquee, Goblin Nabob 4xVerdant Force 3xPernicious Deed
The deck is more consistant than the new Long decks and infinately more versatile. Chalice for 2 isn't that big of a deal for the deck, most games you'll either strip the Chalice from their hand before they can play it or win before they top deck one. Sol Ring and Vampiric Tutor only slowed the deck down, so I cut both of them. You have to do a lot of gold fishing to come to this conclusion, so you can either take my word for it or kiss the better half of a weekend good bye proving me otherwise. Xantids would probably be better in the MD than Unmasks, but the MD is built for TOTAL SPEED vs anything you may encounter. Caller of the Claw is in the MD to help ensure Spoils doesn't remove all of your win conditions and to give you an "out" vs Damping Matrix.
Comments?
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RoadTrippin
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« Reply #26 on: February 01, 2004, 05:24:07 pm » |
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Breathweapon, I've known this since June, and I've played monoblack since June (recently added green splash with Scourge). My build's a little better.. but that's to be expected since I've had extreme testing experience vs. a myriad of top contenders, and decks that are now outdated. I'm glad someone else has realized what you have.
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Tychoides
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« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2004, 11:25:26 pm » |
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I belive its the best Combo Deck and the best Budget Deck in the game right now. I just had to point this out, but I don't think any deck with 4 Bazaars of Baghdad would be considered budget (unfortunately for us budget players!). 
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"It's just my opinion, but I'm right!" --Max Kellerman
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Sytupal
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« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2004, 01:42:48 am » |
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It's all about the 5 proxy builds my friend. They're so abundant that it's hard not to find them somewhere. Nowadays I'd consider any deck that was "5 proxy ready," budget. I recently played my newest list in the local tournament here on Cape Cod and found that i made mistakes that other pilots such as dicemanx or Ill_Dawg may not have made thus making a higher showing. The deck is very strong as it is USING Blue as a powerful part of it. Here's the link to my latest list along with some changes and the report. http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14934
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Signature, Smignature, Isn't this where people should write there name illegibly?
Team CCC.
Minsc And Boo And You!.
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ill_Dawg
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« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2004, 03:13:20 am » |
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Right now, if I was playing Dragon, this is what it would look like.
D4gr0n iLL_Dawg remix
4 dragon 2 laquatus
4 Bazaar 4 Squee
3 necromancy 2 dance 2 animate
4 FoW 4 Xantid Swarm 3 Stifle 2 Deed
2 Intuition 2 lim-dul's vault 1 demonic 1 vampiric
1 ancestral
4 delta 4 sea 2 bayou 1 trop 1 swamp 7 SoLoMoxen
SB: 2 P. Diddy 3 Verdant Force 1 Sliver Queen 1 Caller of the Claw 2 Coffin Purge 2 Compulsion 2 Carpet of Flowers 2 Null Rod
I haven't done a lot of testing with this list, since I have been working with other decks in an effort to keep my precious bazaars unrestricted, but in my limited testing it has won in the current metagame list like my old list did in its respective environment. Essentially, I dropped time walk (which always felt a little like a crutch to me) and 1 animate effect (the only other thing I could really cut, there are still plenty of them) to fit in 2 MD deeds to compensate for the MD hate that's out there.
Although Compulsion is too slow for the main in my opinion, I do like it on the board; especially when it comes in alongside carpet of flowers against URphid and B2B-packing control builds. It's a playstyle thing, as well as a luck thing. My bazaars love me to the point that I can usually keep them in play long enough to win. Not only that, but they topdeck themselves when nothing else can save me and I'm facing down death. Ask anyone who's ever played against me.
The swarms, in my opinion, belong in the main. As do the FoWs. The only matchups where duress is better are matchups involving workshops, which you should win anyhow. If they fire/ice it, you animate it. If they swords it, they have 1 less swords to ruin your day when you want to go off. It's like duress, in that it takes the card you don't want them to have out of their hand. Unlike duress, though, if they are unable to answer it you just win the game. Duress with an upgrade wins, in my opinion.
Just my .o2
-=ADAM=-
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Team Poland: Not playing magic since 2003
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