This is wrong.

[MuzzonoAmi]

I can't believe that some people are so annoyed by an attempt to facilitate useful discussion as to completely neglect that there have been promotions from the Newbie Forum since the new membership system was adopted. VGB (who doesn't post anymore), me, Toast, humanman, iLL_dawg (who is VA now) and SummenenSaugen(Kowal, who is also VA now). So saying that compotent posting isn't enough is just so much utter nonsense.

[Fëanor]

No one should be complaining about the quality of TMD. The mods have done more than all of us know to keep this place as clean and as productive as possible. Laviat's edit earlier proves their worth. There are so many ideas bubbling around on these forums, and it's inevitable that some will contradict each other. It's best to leave if you arent satisfied with the kind of replies you get. If you posted in the first place, then you should expect any type of criticism. Zherbus has put together a very simple and effective way to allow users into the clean T1 forum, and i dont blame the mods for any of their descisions.

Remember that these people know what they're doing. You may not agree all the time wiht what they have to say, but they are being helpful and are almost always right. If you do not agree, it is simply foolish to whine about the paragons giving you a hard time. Maybe your deck or idea isnt fit for T1, and maybe you should listen to them when they say "if you want to compete, play (insert name here)"

still however, if youre still unsatisfied, its your deck and they arent making you change it. they may want you to post somewhere else, then do so. if you dont agree to the very understandable rules of TMD, the most acclaimed vintage site, then we are happy to kick you out rather than recieving spam about your issues.

No further mention of WWII, as I myself completely oppose such behavior, especially on these forums, keep TMD clean.

peace

[Plainswalker]

Note: I wrote this when there were only 4 posts in this thread, I'll talk about other stuff after this that has been said.

A: No we don't need 3 forums, if the drain is going to be all T1 then all we need is the proving ground and the Main ones, the three t1 forums are just confusing and people are starting to post extended and t2 stuff in there. Or, if there are 3, then don't have two "open" t1 forums, but the current open one and one for all other posts to flood over into. Calling it the newbie forum just sends crap over to the open forum because people don't wanna be noobs.

B: We're not wanna-be's in the middle forum. If I see something worth commenting on, like this, then I'll post. There are so many decks being worked on right now though since people were eager to post when the drain came back up, I can't even follow everything to make a good post.

C: Although I don't agree that "sub-par" posters are being stifled, I think there just being payed no attention. I believe there are more people in the open forums then the main one, so if people aren't responding to "sub-par" posts, thats the communities fault, not a select groups.

To sum it up, I don't agree that everyones idea's are being suppressed, thats the communities fault for not posting more. If you care what some guy in another state/country says about your post, then you've got other issues. On the other hand I do think somethings like putting the 3 forums into 2 would be fine or re-working them which I bet is happening anyways.



I wanna try to turn this into more a continuation of Eastmans post for us little people then what it's become.

I think one of the core issues here is about net-decking, not inflated ego, team pride or the other bs. Personally, and this is only me, if I built a deck and came to a tournament with lots of people playing it then I would be very happy. To go a little off subject, but I'll come back, I firmly believe it is okay to download music on line. This is because music should be meant to share with other people so other people can enjoy it. Also, and this is streching it a bit, letting other people hear your music makes it better. If your fans didn't like your last CD then you change it a bit next time. It is a job as well, but it hurts the big name people mostly, not the smaller groups. Go and watch the espisode of South Park about downloading music and you'll understand what I'm getting at.

Basically it's the same for net-decking in a sense. I think the thing I'd like people to answer in the next couple posts is this. Do you want to improve T1 as a whole and let others benefit and help you with your deck or do you simply want to win? And please don't think either answer is wrong either, this isn't good guy/bad-guy.

I personally think all information should be shared with everyone as long as it is explained well. A good example, and we shall see if it's true, is Jacob Orlove's recent edition of Drop of Honey to his sideboard in (Big O was it?) his decks sideboard. It wasn't his job to explain it there, he was just talking about something, but how much do you want to bet people will be playing with it now with no idea why they are? Or that it might not even be good at the next tournament (Waterbury was kinda aggro heavy). This goes for both core players and noobs, explain yourself or other people will instantly shut you down or use your tech with no clue what the hell they're doing. Obviously this is bad and it sucks, but people are here to learn.

I think it comes down to this:

- For the people of the Closed Forums: Don't feel afriad to put idea's out there that aren't fully tested, thats what everyone else is here for, to call you an idiot   That seemed to be the big reason for people not wanting to post things in the other thread http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9316

I take a lot of my deck building information from these forums but the things I benefit most from are hearing about strange cards. I started in A-poc and most of the people here know me from tournaments more likely then here. I have my drains and workshops but I still didn't know what carpet of flowers or root maze was till a little while ago. These are the things I like to hear.

- To all others: If you take a deck idea, then give credit to the maker/team is all. Just like how I was talking about music, the fans help the deck, if the people making the decks think the people taking them are idiots and abusing this information they have the right not to share it. They don't get as much help, but you don't get to hear about the great new deck out there. Double-edged sword.

Last things and I know this is long, please stop the "if you don't like it, get lost posts" At least the people your saying this to are useally making a point, even if it's a bad one. Sorry to pick on you Kirdape3, but it won't be for the better. Thats not how working together to form a better T1 Community works. You need the good, the bad and wrong.  If everyone agreed on something then there would be no reason to post except the initial information. O and the grammer, I wrote this before class, so please read through the bad spelling and grammer and probably ignore the music part...just watch south park  

[kirdape3]

I don't want a 'better' Type One community.  I think the one I have is good enough - between MeanDeck and a select few remaining Paragons I can afford to spend my time on other formats, knowing that Type One is pretty well taken care of for me.

[brendan]

There's a surprisingly small amount of negativity in this thread, so good work there everyone. On any other forum, this would have been unreadable.

The direction TMD is headed is what is responsible for a lot of the complaints. It has been a restricted environment, and more recently is headed even more towards a closed society. Note how there are close to (or even exactly) zero members that are't from North America or Europe. Note how pretty much all of the members from the NE US still have memberships, while most of the west coasters are gone. As another example, there were around a dozen Aussies with accounts before the change. Now there are zero.

The negatives for this direction have already been well discussed, but the positives have gotten little air-time. In an environment where everyone is familiar with eachother, discussion is much easier. It is human nature to be more inclined to dismiss the opinions of strangers, and accept, or discuss the opinions of peers. A closed environment is much more conducive to open strategic discussion.

The other directional change that TMD has made has left a lot of people a bit lost. It is now much more focused on competitive T1, and rightly so. If T1 is ever to become a real format, it needs the centralised strategy areas that other sites provide the other formats.

The problem with this it has left a lot of the former members lost and homeless. Although I originally earned my membership based on the strength of my reports of successfully assaulting powered metagames with $30 decks, I have since moved away from a T1 metagame. I spent the last 6 months on TMD posting almost exclusively in the casual forums, community, and primarily in card creation.

As a casual player, I am not really in the target audience of TMD which is why it would be difficult for me to try to obtain access to the forums again. This is probably the case for a lot of you who resent your lack of access.

One point of advice I will provide, is that in the past the "trial zone" has never worked very well. I have seen people providing quality submissions into the newbie area for long periods, and never receive memberships. This is an excellent method of trialling possible members, but it obviously requires a lot of administration to function well.

[Zherbus]

A: No we don't need 3 forums, if the drain is going to be all T1 then all we need is the proving ground and the Main ones, the three t1 forums are just confusing and people are starting to post extended and t2 stuff in there. Or, if there are 3, then don't have two "open" t1 forums, but the current open one and one for all other posts to flood over into. Calling it the newbie forum just sends crap over to the open forum because people don't wanna be noobs.

The newbie forum is a MUST. If someone posts something of newbie forum caliber, we have a boat-load of moderators to handle that. It wouldn't hurt you to report a post here and there, either.

The direction TMD is headed is what is responsible for a lot of the complaints. It has been a restricted environment, and more recently is headed even more towards a closed society. Note how there are close to (or even exactly) zero members that are't from North America or Europe. Note how pretty much all of the members from the NE US still have memberships, while most of the west coasters are gone. As another example, there were around a dozen Aussies with accounts before the change. Now there are zero.

Our screening council is incredibly busy. We have a shitload of threads open now discussing potential members and that comes from people requesting to be reviewed. Not a single person from Australia..or China...or Iceland has requested to be reinstated. I guess that's the administrations fault?

As for west-coasters:

JACO is up for review (my own device, he never asked)
PsychoCid
TracerBullet
DavidHernandez
Saucemaster
Zhalfirin

There's more, I'm sure.

One point of advice I will provide, is that in the past the "trial zone" has never worked very well. I have seen people providing quality submissions into the newbie area for long periods, and never receive memberships. This is an excellent method of trialling possible members, but it obviously requires a lot of administration to function well.

Hence the newbie forum; it allows us to get a better idea of what's happening in the open forum. The open and newbie forums are moderated by: Administrators (Me, Leviat, Toad), all Moderation, and all Vintage Adepts. That should be enough firepower.

[st00mie]

I know I pray to Zherbus!  

Seriously though, this thread was closed once.  I think any of you who think the TMD team is doing a bad job at being fair (as if that was even their fucking job) should stop and consider just how unfair they are being if they were willing to re-open this thread and listen to your suggestions.

[Vegeta2711]

while most of the west coasters are gone

A. There weren't a lot of us to begin with
B. Plenty of us did get memberships.

Me, Tracerbullet, Dave, PsychoCid, Saucemaster, Zhalfrin (sorry if I maimed the spelling) and I'm sure I probably forgot someone.  

EDIT: Er. haha. Zherb added the list at the sametime I posted, so sorry if it looks like I'm repeating here.

[Un4givenKnight]

OK. I can deal with being stuck in "newbie quarentine". But what truly annoys me is being banned from the Tournament Forum. Just because i have never won a single power card and that i don't play a deck that costs as much as a decent used car makes me unworthy of sharing my experiences with the community at large? To quote Revenge of the Nerds "I've got news for all the beautiful people...There are a lot more of us than there are of you."

If you could find it in your hearts, souls, or whatever it is that y'all have inside to give us "scrubs" something that I personally think we deserve anyway, that's one less dissenting voice in these forums. Might not seem like too much, but to get rid of the dissension you're going to have to go about it one by one.

[brendan]

Our screening council is incredibly busy. We have a shitload of threads open now discussing potential members and that comes from people requesting to be reviewed. Not a single person from Australia..or China...or Iceland has requested to be reinstated. I guess that's the administrations fault?

No, it's probably the fault of this (taken from the FAQ):

Q: "How do I regain my full member status?"

A: Contribute as best you can; that's why those people with full member access have them. I have appointed a QA team to filter in full memberships, but I get recommendations from everyone. Please do not PM the moderators asking for a full membership. These requests will be ignored.

I like how people jump to assault my negative points, while conveniently ignoring the postitives. So typical.  

I concede I was wrong about the West Coast thing. I surrender!

[Mr. Channel-Fireball]

Point #1.  Whether this site is a closed-captioned audience or not, it literally serves T1 Magic as the Dojo did T2 Magic; therefore, this community would still attract many T1 players looking for nuggets of information no matter who ran it.

Point #2.  And because of my earlier point, Zherbus, and his helpers, have probably (I'd imagine) found themselves swamped with work.

I'm on the same team as Zherb, and I can step back and put myself in someone elses shoes...it seems extremely close knit and even a little selfish, but I imagine that's the whole point!  

Put yourself in your shoes...uh...then put yourself in Zherb's position. Would you do it any differently?  You're trying to create a community of close knit friends. I've told Zherb this before, a lot of people who join these boards (and most Internet msg boards I imagine) are looking for a comfortable place. A family of sorts. A place they can go every day and recognize faces.  

What is happening here is your not being cut off, you're being accepted. As a friend and a family member. Don't look at this experience with a negative attitude, instead accept it as an opportunity.

I'm not complaining, heck, I can post in the tournament forum and that's all I need  

[Plainswalker]

Alright, I concede the point that a newbie forum is needed Zherbus, all I ask is that better guidelines be set up. Puschkin did a good job in the Newbie forum setting guidelines for the whole forum, but I couldn't actually find anything specifically saying what can and can not be said in the Open and Newbie forums. Actually TheFram asked about this in "Questions about the new TMD" but I couldn't find it quickly, so if it's there, it's not really useful to anyone.

-st00mie No offense, but there hasn't really been any complaining in a while in this thread. I think TMD team is being very fair, but on the other hand don't make it sound as if they are being humble in allowing us to voice our opinion, the only reason they closed it was because it was going off topic, not because they didn't wanna listen to our ideas.

There's a surprisingly small amount of negativity in this thread, so good work there everyone. On any other forum, this would have been unreadable.

Exaclty why I like it here.

-Un4givenKnight Sorry I agree with the Tournament forum being closed off to us until we get membership. You can post them in the other forums for now. I saw yours and commented that it was well written, but I doubt many others would be, just a bunch of people talking about there 10 person T1 tournament in there area that doesn't mean much to me.

[Misemaster]

I really think that the new TMD layout is superior to the old one and I do not see why everyone seems to have a problem with the two "open" forums.

On the old site I found in the one newbie forum there was just so many low quality threads to wade through, before finding a truely meaningful discussion. I shy away from making new threads about decks without  a lots of testing back up (which due to school i do not often have). I did not start many threads but I enjoyed posting in quality discussions on the newbie forum. I think the T1 Open forum has given me the oppurtunity to make more quality posts.

As to the issue of being able to post in the tournament forum although I would love to post in it I understand why it is closed. It is for well written reports of tournies hopefully with matches against many of the established archtypes. If you really want to post a tourny report you can post it in the Newbie forum. When I won my first power tourny I posted a report in that forum and got plenty of feedback so it is not like the option to post a report is not open.

Zherbus and the other mods do not even have to have a newbie forum so just be grateful that the site is open to everyone.

[Zherbus]

Brendan - Actually, most of the Aussies know me well enough on IRC to drop a /msg to me. I am very suprised not to hear from not a one. Beyond that, how many of them are posting in a manner which can support an arguement for full membership access.

[brendan]

Brendan - Actually, most of the Aussies know me well enough on IRC to drop a /msg to me. I am very suprised not to hear from not a one. Beyond that, how many of them are posting in a manner which can support an arguement for full membership access.

That's exactly my point about the site being oriented away from the more casual T1 players. Luke, Cluey and dre, much like myself, only really posted every couple of months, following their monthly or 2-monthly tournaments, to discussing their metagame and decks.

As tmd has become more widely known, more hardcore posters and players are turning up. You don't need to get defensive about it, this is not a knock. In its early days of small membeship numbers, the casual players provided a decent quantity of the input. Now with its much larger member base, irregular or unreliable posters are not required.

[Rane]

Well I would like to think that I for one am =P and Brendan, whilst I do not agree with him, is still bringing up some good points.

In the end though everyone has to remember that WE ALL HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE HERE!@!  It is of Zherbus' good will and the good will of the Teams that they share their information with the public.  The reason some of you don't leave is because there is no other place like TMD where you can get quality T1 information.  Then you show your gratitude by letting people know how P.O'd you are.  TMD IS Type 1.  I honestly think that if TMD got completly shutdown, a LOT of Type 1 would go with it.

And no I'm not trying to suck up, as this has been stated before.  The fact that we can all READ the Type 1 forums is generous enough, let alone some of us can contribute and have our questions answered.  You don't like it, shut up or leave.  It's their site.

[Di]

 The reason some of you don't leave is because there is no other place like TMD where you can get quality T1 information.  Then you show your gratitude by letting people know how P.O'd you are.  TMD IS Type 1.  I honestly think that if TMD got completly shutdown, a LOT of Type 1 would go with it.

Yes, keywords: "Some of you". I'll admit that I'm not a very big type 1 player(which isn't really my fault, we just don't have it in Syracuse very often), but I'm still here. Why is this? Becuase I like the community, and I'm sure that's how a lot of others feel.

While a lot of T1 would go away if TMD went down, I can't entirely agree with you. From what I see, a huge amount of T1 strategy and such comes from the articles that are written on StarCity. A good portion of information on the boards comes from those articles, so I think losing StarCity could be just as big, if not a bigger loss to the T1 community.

But back to the community part. I feel, as a former "member" of TMD, that it was one of the most important aspects of the forum. As I said I couldn't give much towards Type 1, where else did I have to go there? 1.5? Sure, I did a ton of that, but that got ugly when it was un-moderated. So I went to community, and to an extent, the humor forum. I thought those were the places that binded T1, because it didn't give the playing and strategic part of the format, it was where it gained it's respect, and it was where it gained anything that had to do with fixing the format(ie the B/r list). It's also where most of the people got to know each other, so they could become more comfortable in posting in the actual playing/startegy forums. I find it awkward to add in any new members(as in, just let people come in the "serious" T1 forums) now, because they are newer to this "community", thus therefor it could be tough for the actual "members" to adjust to the new members, and dismiss them.

If this post doesn't make sense, I blame myself. I'm rather tired, so it could come out wierd. But the basic point I'm trying to make is that the Type 1 format might not be the reason we're all here, at least it isn't for me.

[Rane]

While a lot of T1 would go away if TMD went down, I can't entirely agree with you. From what I see, a huge amount of T1 strategy and such comes from the articles that are written on StarCity. A good portion of information on the boards comes from those articles, so I think losing StarCity could be just as big, if not a bigger loss to the T1 community.

As I said before most of the article's are written BY PEOPLE ON TMD.

If this post doesn't make sense, I blame myself. I'm rather tired, so it could come out wierd. But the basic point I'm trying to make is that the Type 1 format might not be the reason we're all here, at least it isn't for me.

That's the entire point of the closed forum.  To filter OUT the people who are not here for T1 competitive MtG.  No offense, but that is the entire point of this website, in particular that forum.  If you want to talk about Newbie Magic go to the Newbie forums, or any other topic a different site.  That forum is meant for only those people who wish to talk about competitive tournament level Type 1 magic.

[jpmeyer]

The only reason that I send stuff to SCG is because Knut asks me to.  If SCG wasn't there it'd go somewhere else, and by somewhere else I mean here until someone else bribed me.

[Zherbus]

Brendan, sorry it's easy to get defensive on a thread where you've been compared to the Nazi's.

[Browser]

Alright, I just got home.  Wow, I come back from work and I have 4 pages of responses.  I knew the post was a bombshell.  It wasn't intended to be a milk-toast plea or anything.  But I'm still a little surprised.  

Ok, first, I obviously need to clarify something, so it's best to start by being clear.  I never intended to compare you, personally, to a Nazi.  Never.

The part of the post has been eliminated, so if you have a copy of it saved, I hope you re-read it after hearing this.  If not, I hope you're calm enough to trust I'm being honest.

The sentence or two about Nazi's and Communists was meant to try to reach a mutual understanding that those organizations were wrong.  It was meant to build the point, as evidence, of my central thesis.  (Sectioning out people, based on who can say what where, is, to alteast some degree, destructive.)  I knew we would both agree they were wrong.  I was trying to get you to agree on the fundamental mistakes they made, that made them wrong.

Sure, it was meant to be provacative.  It was meant to make people see that something they were doing, was fundamentally flawed, in a similar way to something historically that was also fundamentally flawed.  But it seems you feel I was calling you a Nazi.  Clearly, the original post never made that statement.  So I hope you accept my apology for making you feel that it was implied.

EDIT: I just reread and was reminded that I was compared to the Nazis, which is interesting that you only bring this up after you lose full membership rights from the site change.

Yeah, sure.  Self interest is a pretty dependable motivator.  Why not?  And if you must know, I am insulted.  

[non-constructive rant]And I should be.  Milton has a full membership.  (Craig, you're a pretty cool guy in my book, don't take this personally.)  Milton, as far as I can tell has a membership because he's always had a membership, and because he posts more than I do.  He's not ranked as highly as I am.  He doesn't win tournaments as consistantly as I do.  There's no reason he deserves to post in any forum I'm not allowed in.  I had a BD membership.  And I had an early TMD memberships as well.[/non-constructive rant]

Ok, but here's the point.  There's a reason I didn't just spew the preceeding anger in my first post.  The preceeding rant doesn't really give the whole picture.  The whole picture includes all the people who don't give a shit anymore.  They don't care to re-prove themselves.  There are plenty of people like me, who have contributed to TMD, yet don't feel the need to post daily, or even weekly.  I own a business.  Like many Type 1 players (being older, thus more frequently professional=busier) I post when I can, and when I see something where I can add to the dialogue.

But I don't fit in to the new defenition of a poster.  I don't write long articles about the evolution of any deck type.  

But when an idea on a deck was being discussed, my adding to the conversation NEVER caused catastrophic pandamonium.  Is there really a reason, I shouldn't be alowed to add to the conversation?  And my point was broader than that.  Aren't there HUNDREDS of people who've been snubbed, who could also make the same arguement?

And I've read all the comments made in favor of "Quality Content Uber Alles".   I don't think you fully understand my viewpoint on this.  I love quality tech.  You're right, I come to TMD, to get it.  Atleast I always did.  But look at the numbers of people who aren't even asking for full memberships.  I believe there is a large number of people who have lost the taste for this site, with the new rules.

And quantity has now definitely gone down.  Let's look at the facts.  I'll take my friend Steve's post:

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6412

The deck has been up for 8 days.  It has 3 replies.  One of which is Steve.

The similar deck that had been posted on the old site had 10 replies...in 3 days.  That is dramatically different.

Perhaps downward trending graphs are satisfactory to you.  My experience in the real world tells me they should be avoided like the plague.  For all practical purposes, they are the plague.  A glaring indicator of something dying.

You don't really think most of those missing posts we have these days were useless spam do you?  

I think you have slighted a large number of people, who don't want to jump through hoops, just to be a part of something they had always previously felt at home at.  There may not be large numbers of people speaking out on this the way I do.  But silence is often a trademark of human reaction to insult.

I hope you don't feel I'm trying to "beat you up" for this.  I simply think you haven't really carefully thought out this mistake.

[eddavatar]

Just a couple comments on the topic:

The division of newbie and normal T1 is a necessity. Imagine how many posts are there in the open forums and stuff them all into the closed forum. The chance that people would have enough time to get a real look on the real worthy posts would be slim to none.

The screening process is a privilege, not a right. We're given a chance to be a full member, and all we need to do is to prove ourselves. Z doesn't have the responsibility to give us this chance.

But on the issue of posting on the Tourney report, I do believe that people with basic accounts should be given the right to post on there, simply because of the fact that the open forums shouldn't be having tourney report posts, and that I always have the problem of not being able to reply on tourney announcements. I mean, if a tourney report is sub-par, they can always be moved. I believe tourney report forum is more of a community space, and should be opened to the public.

And lastly on the lack of west coast members. Well, the ones that are there are definitely worthy and i'm happy to see jaco being considered for full account. But the number of us as full member is definitely depressed. Maybe it's the whole "east coast effect" that happens in the sports world, maybe it's because of the fact that we do have less players. But I do believe there are a lot of good player/poster/deckbuilder that's from the west coast that are overlooked. I personally nominate Webster and Kilo from C&J to be members, solely from the posts I've read from them in the past and the general high finishes that they have. Brokennut from here in SD is also a good candidate to be a member I believe, as his posts are generally insightful.

[Zherbus]

Browser - Milton and waSP have memberships because of the content of what they post, not how well they do at tournaments. Sure that helps when dishing out advice, but especially when DCI ratings are involved it is useless here. I know plenty of people who can play a deck (netdecked or their own invention) but if they don't open/participate a discussion on what they win with, how they intend to win with it, or what others should do to do as well in a different metagame - then it means nothing here.

Milton and waSP certainly regularly offered their thoughts, whereas I think I can only remember 1 post from you, and a handful of 'I'm great because I won with mono-blue' posts at Brainburst. You want full membership? Then do your part and point me to something worthwhile from the archives, another site, or from these forums. THEN my screening council and myself can give you a serious once over as to whether you'd be helpful to have around in the forum which people look at more seriously...which leads me to my final point.

The locked type 1 forum is more heavily regarded and always has. The open forum is actually been a nice change because its the 'every-mans forum'. You get a better idea of what people are really playing by looking in here. However, there is something to be said for the responsibility in reaching a larger audience (read: every visitor of TMD - keep in mind I've broken 80 gigs of bandwidth in the past- reads the main type 1 forum).

What gets posted there, reflects on the site as a whole. If you want me to open it up so someone can post about Sengir Vampire.dec, then you've obviously come to the wrong place.

[Pern]

Please do not PM the moderators asking for a full membership. These requests will be ignored.

know me well enough on IRC to drop a /msg to me. I am very suprised not to hear from not a one.

You want full membership? Then do your part and point me to something worthwhile from the archives, another site, or from these forums.

I'm confused. Which is it?

I never was much of a one for posting in the closed T1 forum,
but it makes me sad that I can't post in the tournament forum.
People used to like my reports.

Pern(icious Dude)

[Zherbus]

Please see the revised rules - sorry for the confusion.

EDIT - This quote has been there for the better half of a week.

Older full access members can request the membership review team to vote them in (which has been an excellent system so far) at any time. To expedite this, and to make it lean more towards your favor, please provide links to sample work whether it be from the new boards, another site, or the archives of old TMD.

[dad]

The original point to the thread seems out of place a little.  TMD is operated by its designer, owner, and people assigned to its maintenance.  Consider this, are there any organizations where rules are in place and enforced by a few (an oligarchy if you will), where those that are not the decision-makers do not complain?

There will always be students that complain about the teachers, motorists that complain about the police, workers that complain about supervisors, etc... The fact is, this is not a utopian site.  Anything manmade is likely to have flaws.  

Questions worth asking:
1. If TMD doesn't meet your needs, is there a better site that does, so that its strong points may be considered and perhaps emulated?

2.  To the Admins:  Obviously, there are a few people who are voicing their discontent about the site.  Some view TMD as a members-only country club and this rubs them the wrong way.  What, if anything, have you done to not make people feel alienated, while maintaining a differentiated stratus to the forums?
Are you considering new ideas for those that feel unjustly confined to the open forum?

[mouth]

I can see not wanting to re-instate some particular members, but there are alot of old members that you do seem to be passing by. But whatever, I don't really care about that.

My problem is with the Basic Users. I can't wrap my head around why you'd want to be a Full Member. Is it the penis thing? Honestly, do you think that posting the same crap in the comparitively stagnant closed forum would make you a better person?

I'm really trying to extrapolate this into a better defined logic, but I'm a little sleepy.

[jpmeyer]

1) If the need is to have someone tutor you, then I can't think of any site to help you.  I can however tell you that you can learn for yourself buy searching archives and reading articles (on more than just Type 1, too!)

2) There are multiple points to be made here:

Open boards of any kind breed poor quality posts.  The problem is that most people forget that prior to the Internet, if you wanted to be heard you actually had to have people approve what you had to say as actually of some merit.  It's just a fact.  Read the threads at places like FARK or worse yet, Ain't It Cool News for examples of this.

There's a maturity issue.  If you're not civil about getting instated/needing to get reinstated, it gives us reason to believe that you're going to carry that immaturity into the other forums and cause more work for the mods when they have to edit/delete your stuff.

Lastly, the closed forum is supposed to be a discussion area, not a teaching area.  People don't like having to repeat the same ideas over and over again when they could be doing something more productive.

[Zherbus]

You stated it very well that there will always be discontent. Every establishment that does something out of the norm to better itself in someway, is bound to upset people who aren't used to the methods used. If I ran a site that wanted to make everyone happy, I would do so and therefore capitalize on it somehow in the form of annoying pop-ups, shameless sales advertising, and banner ads.

However, this is a private site with private goals. The goal: to keep discussion at a level in which noone has a painful time reading. Opening the site up to where there is an open level of posting WILL ruin this. There needs to be no discussion on a contingent that members might 'respect' the main type 1 forums.

It simply will not happen. You'll have posts of people who:

1) Can't type and/or have no respect for the english language as a means of communication.

2) Who operate on false assumptions. We don't know who many of the basic users really are. They could very well be the kid that won Waterbury or it could be just someone who talks straight from the ass who playtests very little and makes it to tournaments almost never.

3) People who will not respect the rules and guidelines set forth for posting at this site. The decklist-only posts, incomplete decklists, decklist requests, and just plain BAD decks are things noone wants to read.

4) Before these new forums were made public, we got in contact with TMD's finest, or at least most of them to set up the core element of the site. TMD's best posters want to get help and information just as much as everyone else and it's an unspoken deal I have with them that as long as I keep the quality of discussion high, they will continue to provide  valuable input.

The moment discussion quality drops, so do the contributions of members who have proven themselves time and again. In short, I take care of those who have proven themselves as an asset to the site as a priority.

To answer your questions more:

1) I believe that there is no other site out there that has something that I don't as far as forum discussion. The only partial amount of envy I have is for Starcity's constant flow of articles - which they pay for. I have a plan in motion to have more writings up every week, but as far as forums go - even the other sites have to admit we have the leg up. Why else do you think I've had StarCity ask to merge twice, AGN network (Brainburst, playordraw.com) ask us to join them, and other offers of a buyout?

2) Like I said, I can't make everyone happy. What I can do is make the more important contributers happy. If it means making some random guy who will hardly have an impact on the site pissed off, then so be it. I'm willing to take that risk and at some times I welcome it. Also, I realize I could very well be alienating good potential members, but there's something to be said for a lack of effort to make that potential known.

[kl0wn]

After wading through the contents of this thread, something dawned on me:

Do you people realize that if you stopped your whining and instead spent the time and effort on becoming better players and understanding Type 1 (and learning how to write, to a greater extent) you'd have full member status?