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Author Topic: [Article] January-February Vintage Gauntlet  (Read 4893 times)
Kerz
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« on: January 26, 2004, 03:50:14 pm »

In the past few days I have talked to a few members about starting bi-monthly Gauntlet articles. Everyone seems to like the idea of having close-to-set decklists to test with in the coming weeks, so I figure I'm going to write a little about each deck including a decklist and links to discussion.
    I am going to try and write this on the normal player's level, only including what I personnally would test against (I took other people's opinions on this too). So if you don't see a deck that you belive is able to win a tournament in the current metagame, throw me a PM.

    January-Febuary Vintage Gauntlet

Aggro Decks
Maddness
Oshawa Stompy/Big O/GPR
TnT

Control Decks
Hulk/r
B2b Hulk
Keeper (No Secepters)
Scepter Control
Landstill
U/r
Mono Blue


Combo Decks
Dragon
TPS
Neo-Long

Prison Decks
Slavery
Neo-Mud


Aggro-Control
Fish
Gay/R
GAT

Aggro-Combo
Mono Black Mask


AGGRO DECKS

1. Maddness
Although losing some punch after the restriction of LED, this deck is still viable after taking a different approach and going less for explosiveness and a more stable manabase and threat base. Its best matchups are most control decks and O. Stompy.

Here is Hyperion (Team Reflection)'s Latest Maddness Deck:

Quote
//Threats
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Arrogant Wurm
3 Roar of the Wurm

//Incarnations
3 Anger
2 Wonder

//Engine
4 Careful Study
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
3 Deep Analysis
1 Ancestral Recall

//Utility
4 Fiery Temper
1 Time Walk

//Mana
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Taiga
4 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Forest
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond

//Sideboard
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Artifact Mutation
3 Waterfront Bouncer
2 Krosan Reclamation
2 Ray of Revelation


Discussion Threads on the deck include:
Maddness Primer:
-http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9210

2. Oshawa Stompy
Invented by the Canadians, this deck has recently become very popular in the Northeast because. Its specialty is beating on control with its constant threats due to a solid draw engine.

Here is the most recent published list, by Razor:

Quote
//Mana Dirt: 16
10 Forest
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Petrified Field
//
//Alternative Mana: 11
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Eladamri's Vineyard
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Emerald
//
//Toolbox: 28
4 Survival of the Fittest
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Wild Mongrel
4 Troll Ascetic
4 Arrogant Wurm
//
//Disruption: 5
2 Null Rod
2 Naturalize
1 Berserk
//
//Sideboard: 15
3 Ground Seal
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Naturalize
2 Null Rod
1 Silklash Spider
1 Elvish Lyrist
1 Scavenger Folk
1 Caller of the Claw
1 Genesis


Discussion Threads:
-http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9119
-http://zherbus.proboards19.com/index.cgi?board=tourny&action=display&num=1072478309

3. TnT
This deck has been around for years in various forms, and the metagame recently included the correct conditions for it to return to the spotlight. As the trend follows, this deck is good at beating control, and has a very solid match against many of the other popular aggro decks.

Here is Toad's TNT list:

Quote
// Mana base - 28
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
3 Taiga
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Grim Monolith

// Engine - 10
4 Survival Of The Fittest
4 Goblin Welder
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Anger

// Fat dudes and utility critters - 14
4 Juggernaut
3 Su-Chi
1 Karn, Silver Golem
2 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Triskelion
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Duplicant
1 Platinium Angel

// I've won - 8
3 Blood Moon
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
1 Wheel of Fortune


Deck Discussion is happening here:
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=40


CONTROL DECKS

1. Hulk (with Red)
Tog is another deck that has been around for quite a long time, and has fallen into favor as the "Top" control deck according to many people. Using overwhelming card draw and a 1 turn kill, this deck is really a monster. This deck is very good in the control match because of more card draw than other decks, and REB in the board in addition to 8 hard counters + Duress in the maindeck. The aggro match also is pretty good simply because of the card Psychatog- but Oshawa stompy can give it some trouble. Against combo, Duress is huge, and putting immidiate pressure to win is important, although not the strongest matchup.

This is Smmenen's version of the deck, designed to be more aggressive to help he Oshawa stompy matchup. It is not as streamlined or widely accepted yet, but personnally I belive it is the best list.

Quote
4 Duress
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will

4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Intuition
4 Brainstorm

3 Tog
3 Cunning Wish

1 Gush
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Deep Analysis
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mind Twist

1 Pernicious Deed

4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
5 Moxen
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus

SB:
1 Berserk
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Artifact Mutation
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Oxidize
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Pernicious Deed
3 Coffin Purge
1 DA
1 Blue Elemental Blast


This deck is discussed on these threads:
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9264
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9265

2. Ubg Hulk (usually utilizing Back to Basics)
This deck has the same goals as Hulk with red, exept it includes 3-4 Island and 1 Swamp in order to function under blood moon, and use Back to Basics itself.

Here is my own list, which I played to 25th place at the TMD Open:

Quote
//Counter/Disruption
3 Duress
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will

//Win
3 Psychatog

//Tutor/Search
2 Intuiton
2 Cunning Wish
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

//Draw
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
2 Deep Analysis
1 Ancestral Recall

//Other
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mind Twist

//Land/Mana
3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
4 Island
1 Swamp
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Black Lotus
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

//Sideboard
2 Naturalize
2 Coffin Purge
1 Berserk
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Back to Basics
3 Xantid Swarm
1 Smother
3 Pernicious Deed


Deck discussion here:
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=22

3. Keeper
Keeper is the deck that just molds and changes to suit the metagame. It will ALWAYS be viable, but at the moment Tog has stolen a lot of its limelight as the top control deck.

Here is Zherbus's newest Keeper list:

Quote
4 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
1 Island
1 Strip Mine
1 Library of Alexandria

1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Brainstorm
2 Cunning Wish
2 Stifle

1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Mystical Tutor

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoths Will
2 Skeletal Scrying
1 Mind Twist

2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Fire/Ice
1 Balance

3 Decree of Justice
2 Gorilla Shaman

SB: 3 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Deep Analysis
SB: 1 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 Coffin Purge
SB: 2 Rack and Ruin
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 1 Vampiric Tutor
SB: 2 Damping Matrix
SB: 1 Blue Elemental Blast


This deck is mainly discussed on this thread:
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4

4. Scepter Control (Chronic)
This deck utilizes many instants and 4 Isochron Scepters to generate a lot of card advantage over time. It plays out closest to Keeper, with the ability to really win any match, with not many terrible matchups per se. This deck has fallen out of favor a bit lately with 4 color control enthusiasts for Zherbus-like control.

Here is the decklist that I worked on for a bit, and wrote an article on on the older TMD.

Quote
//Land/Mana Sources
4 Polluted Delta
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tundra
3 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Jet  
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl

//Counter/Control
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain

//Draw
3 Brainstorm
4 Accumulated Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall

//Tutor
2 Cunning Wish
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor

//Utility/Other
4 Isochron Scepter
1 Gorilla Shaman
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Time Walk

//Removal
2 Swords to Plowshares
3 Fire/Ice

//Win
2 Decree of Justice


//Sideboard
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Rack and Ruin
2 Coffin Purge
2 Deep Analysis
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Disenchant
1 Vampiric Tutor


The archived discussion can be found here:
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4375

5. Landstill
Another Canadian deck, this uses the insane draw engine that includes 4 psudo-ancestrals in addition to the Recall itself. Using Nevinyyral's Disk, Lightning Bolt, and Chain of Vapor to control the board, this deck is a solid choice in this metagame. It has a pretty solid Keeper match due to ability  to outdraw the opponent, and can contend with Hulk. Lower tier aggro decks also die to it (because of Disk) and Dragon can be made a good matchup after SB.

Here is the list as seen in Shock Wave's primer:
Quote
// Mana Sources
4 Island
4 Volcanic Island
4 Faerie Conclave
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Flooded Strand
1 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Lotus Petal

// Card Drawing and Utility
4 Standstill
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk

// Removal
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fire/Ice
4 Nevinyrral's Disk

// Permission
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
3 Misdirection
3 Stifle

// Sideboard
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Maze of Ith


The primer:
http://www.themanadrain.com/landstill.htm

6. U/r Control
This deck is a control deck tailor made to abuse the bomb of Blood Moon. Packing a lot of counters and mana disruption, this deck makes up in utility what it lacks in brokenness. Its better matchups are Dragon, TPS, Long, and Keeper. It can use scepters as draw, but most people agree they are too slow for this deck.

Here is a list that has been circulated and tested around, but never published:

Quote
//Land/Mana Sources
5 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Volcanic Island
7 SoLoMox
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

//Draw
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Ophidian
4 Accumulated Knowledge

//Counter
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
3 Counterspell

//Win
2 Morphling

//Utility/Other
3 Blood Moon
3 Stifle
2 Gorilla Shaman
1 Time Walk

//Removal
3 Fire/Ice

//Sideboard
3 Rack and Ruin
4 Red Elemental Blast
3 Flametongue Kavu
2 Masticore
3 Tormod's Crypt


Unfortunately, this deck isnt being discussed very much now, aside from IRC or AIM. Maybe someone should start a thread...

7. Mono Blue Control

Another deck that kind of exists in the background is Mono U control. Following suit of older builds,  the deck is packed full of counters and uses the great hoser, b2b.

Here is another never-published decklist:

Quote
//Counters
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Leak
4 Counterspell

//Draw
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Deep Analysis
1 Ancestral Recall

//Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll

// Utility
3 Nevinyrral?s Disk
1 Capsize
1 Time Walk

//Hoser
3 Back to Basics

//Win
2 Morphling

//Land/Mana Sources
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
14 Island

//Sideboard
3 Energy Flux
3 Control Magic
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Stifle
2 Powder Keg


Although there is no discussion at the moment, that doesn't mean that the deck is bad. I recommend this deck is in everyone's testing gauntlet.

COMBO DECKS

1. Dragon
This deck has been around for a long time, constantly rejuvinating itself in differnt forms. This deck has been largely hated, but still popular and able to win through the hate. With a good player behind it, this deck can beat control and aggro, but Storm combo usually races it to victory.

Here is Shock Wave  and DicemanX's Dragon as seen in their primer:

Quote
Combo pieces:
4x Worldgorger Dragon
1x Ambassador Laquatus
4x Squee

3x Animate Dead
2x Dance of the Dead
3x Necromancy

4x Intuition
4x Bazaar of Baghdad
3x Compulsion

Disruption/Tutoring/Other

4x Force of Will
3x Duress
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor

Mana

1x Black Lotus
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Ruby
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt
4x Underground Sea
4x Polluted Delta
2x Bayou
1x Tropical Island
1x Gemstone Mine
1x Swamp

SB:

4x Xantid Swarm
4x Pernicious Deed
3x Verdant Force
4x Stifle


The primer and discussion can be found here:
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29

2. TPS
This deck is close to Long.dec, but instead of using Death Wish, it plays many staples maindeck. This deck can beat control with its use of 4 Xantid Swarms, race Aggro (barring a Null Rod), and also has a solid match versus other combo.

Here is Bram's list that he used in the PT Amsterdan side event:
Quote
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Mind's Desire
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Memory Jar
1 Tinker
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Frantic Search
1 Windfall
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Timetwister
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Burning Wish
2 Tendrils of Agony
4 Brainstorm
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Chrome Mox
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
4 Dark Ritual
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Underground Sea
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine

SB: 4 Seal of Cleansing
SB: 1 Simplify
SB: 1 Hull Breach
SB: 1 Balance
SB: 3 Meltdown
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Diminishing Returns
SB: 3 Pyroblast


Again, no discussion on this deck. This should change by the next article once the new TMD gets rolling more.

3. Neo-Long
This once immensely powerful deck is now significantly neutered, but it still retains many of its old properties.

Here is the decklist in Bram's "salvaging Long.dec" thread:
Quote
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Archeological Dig
4 Dark Ritual
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
1 Lion?s Eye Diamond
3 Cabal Ritual

1 Burning Wish
3 Death Wish
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Duress
4 Brainstorm
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Timetwister
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Tinker
1 Memory Jar
1 Windfall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Mind's Desire
4 Chromatic Sphere
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Chain of Vapor

Sideboard:

1 Yawgmoth?s Will
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Tendrils of Agony


Discussion can be found here:
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6421


PRISON DECKS

1. Slavery
This is a realitively new deck on the scene, but it showed its power recently getting 8th place at the TMD Open. This deck can contend with control, and aggro pretty well, but combo may be able to race it befoe it can set up slaver recusrion.

Here is the list found in Toad's article:

Quote
// Mana Sources  29
1 Tolarian Academy
3 Seat of the Synod
4 Volcanic Island
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra?s Workshop
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Grim Monolith
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus
3 Gilded Lotus

 // Keys to the Kingdom ? 19
3 Blood Moon
4 Force of Will
4 Goblin Welder
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mindslaver

 // Draw engine and tutors ? 11
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Windfall
1 Timetwister
1 Tinker
1 Wheel of Fortune
4 Thirst for Knowledge

 // Win condition  1

1 Karn/Bosh/Pentavaus


Article and discussion found here:
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28

2. Neo-Mud
Mud had fallen out of favor when Darksteel brought it a new bomb in the form of Trinisphere. Many versions are simply cutting the old Sphere of Resistance for it. Mud is very good against control, and can slow any deck down enough for it to get complete board advantage.

Here is a recent list:
Quote
Creatures (11)
4 Metalworker
4 Goblin Welder
2 Karn, Silver Golem

Lockdown (19):
4 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void

Draw Engines (5):
3 Mind?s Eye
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Memory Jar

Mana-base (25):
7 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra?s Workshop
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault


Deck Discussion here:
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9323


AGGRO-CONTROL DECKS

1. Fish
Fish is designed to have many threats (too many for control to deal with), while backing them up with Mana Disruption and a few counterspells. This deck is very synergestic and uses the draw engine of standstill. This deck has lost some of its popularity in favor of Landstill or Gay/R.

Here is an older decklist I dug up,  because this deck hasn't been talked about in a while:

Quote
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Roothingyer Thief
3 Manta Riders
4 Curiosity
4 Standstill
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
4 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
3 Stifle
3 Null Rod
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Faerie Conclave
9 Island

SB:
4 Maze of Ith
4 Energy Flux
2 Hurkyl's Recall
2 BEB
1 Stifle
1 Disrupt
1 Null Rod


2. Gay/R
An evolution from the Fish deck, this is largely used by budget players. It also uses the Standstill engine, but uses creatures such as Voidmage Prodigy.

Quote
// Lands
4 Volcanic Island
4 Island
1 Strip Mine
3 Faerie Conclave
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland

// Creatures
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Spiketail Hatchling
4 Cloud of Faeries
3 Voidmage Prodigy

// Spells
4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
4 Curiosity
2 Misdirection
3 Null Rod
4 Daze

// Sideboard
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Hydroblast
SB: 3 Fire/Ice
SB: 3 Rack and Ruin
SB: 3 Pyroblast0


Deck Discussion here:
http://zherbus.proboards19.com/index.cgi?board=T1&action=display&num=1072310715

3. Grow-a-Tog
Even after Gush's restriction, GAT has emerged as more of a controlling deck. After WINNING the TMD open, this deck has shown how good it really is, able to play the control or the beatdown easily, and put a lot of pressure on early.

Scott Limoges's Winning Decklist:

Quote
1 Gush
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Quirion Dryad
2 Psychatog
4 Mana Drain
4 Brainstorm
1 Mind Twist
2 Duress
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampric Tutor
1 Mystical Tuto
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
1 Merchant Scroll

5 Moxen
4 Island
1 Black Lotus
1 Strip Mine
3 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea

SB:
2 Diabolic Edict
3 Naturalize
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Berserk
4 Tormod's Crypt
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Fact or Fiction


Discussion can be found here:
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=42


AGGRO-COMBO DECKS

1. Spoils Mask
This deck is blazingly fast and very disruptive, able to disrupt control long enough to win, and beating most aggro simply because it plays 12/12s for 1 mana.

Here is a decklist, as found in Smmenen's article:
Quote
Road To Victory:
4 Illusionary Mask
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Phyrexian Negator

Roadmap To Victory:
4 Spoils of the Vault
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Necropotence

Ways to Deal With Speed Bumps:
4 Duress
4 Unmask
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Accelerators:
4 Dark Ritual
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus

Sightseeing:
15 Swamps

Sideboard:
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Lightning Greaves
3 Chains of Mephistopheles
3 Metagame Slots



Smmenen's article can be found here:
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=6144


    In Conclusion, the metagame is realitively heathy with many viable decks. This makes it more difficult to test and effectively break the format- but I hope this article helps.

Aaron Kerzner

EDIT: Mods, I copied this here so basic users could post on the topic. If this isn't acceptable, feel free to delete it.
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« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2004, 04:46:46 pm »

Hi Aaron, I've already discussed most of the things that I'm going to post, but seeing as the TMD Community has a right to discuss both my views and yours, I will express my opinions

TnT-I had read Smmenen's article like an hour ago(Nice work Steve) and have to say that Steve's deck looks stronger. I think Steve summed up quite well in his article saying that disruption should go second, with beatdown going first(or something along those lines). However Toad's build(the one in your Gauntlet) seems to be doing the opposite, I have never played Toad's decklist so this might just be thoory. However, reading Steve's article along with playtesting his deck myself makes me think that his is better. Discussion is very open to this as I to am wondering who is right.

Hulk/r-Steve's decklist looks very solid, however as stated in the discussion of the deck it's not very Streamlined yet, like adding a 4th tog. This should stay in the gauntlet, but I wanted to point out that it is due to change.

B2B Hulk-I knew that Kerz would take his own build for this and I must say that I find B2B out of place, in a deck that is prone to strip effects, how is B2B supposed to help this(the Landstill matchup maybe?)?If Landstill seems to be the problem for this deck then Tasbo's web seems to be better.

Keeper(Scepterless)-This is the basis for any Keeper build, however if you put this in your gauntlet then keep in mind that this will never be the same in a random meta, Change it according to your meta

Scepter Control-While talking to Aaron on AIM he said that Scepter Control sucked, I willingly agreed because he is right, however, the deck as a whole should stay in the Gauntlet because Scepters keep showing up.

U/r control-Aaron is right that this deck is still viable, even in today's metagame. One thing I would like to discuss about the deck though is the win condition. When I looked over the Darksteel spoiler, I spotted Wand of (the) Elements, this looks like it could be a better win condition in both Mono Blue Control and U/r Control, keep in mind however that Artifact destruction and Null rod makes this very questionable.

Mono Blue Control-*Read Above*

Dargon(typo intended)-Aaron, I think you should take DiceManX's newest list, the one with the Xantids main and Sliver Queen main, it looks to better suited towards today's metagame.

Slaver-for those puttin this into there Gauntlet, keep in mind that it *is* a meta choice, if your meta hoses it outright then it seems pointless of having this in your gauntlet

Neo-Mud-I am playing this right now and have to say that Trinisphere along with Sphere of resistance seems very strong, I'm still wondering if Trinisphere can replace Sphere of Resistance, but for now it looks stronger when they are together. Also, with the rise of Aggro decks, has anyone been changing Mud by adding extra Karns, Trisks or something to help them out?

That's pretty much all the comments I have at the moment, further discussion of this subject should be made in a way to solve today's metagame.
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« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2004, 05:04:14 pm »

Just so you know, Toad and Smmenenenenenenenen's decks are variations in the same mold, and are evolving together.  There is no problem with either list really.
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« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2004, 05:38:39 pm »

Does Sligh (Goblin or Ankh) suck enough nowadays that it is not worth testing against?  It may be good to test it because there is always SOME people that bring little red men accompanied by burn to T1 tournaments.
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« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2004, 08:13:07 pm »

Like i said, I am doing these on a player's level. I only count decks that will be at the top tables. Will Goblins ever win a tourney?
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« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2004, 08:28:17 pm »

Maybe not but it T8's quite a bit

http://www.morphling.de/coverages/top8decks.php?id=92
http://www.morphling.de/coverages/top8decks.php?id=91
http://www.morphling.de/coverages/top8decks.php?id=89
http://www.morphling.de/coverages/top8decks.php?id=80

 Cool

Thanks for the Article though Kerz, this will help me a lot in the next few weeks instead of skimming through everything, hope you continue to do more.
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« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2004, 09:09:46 pm »

Eindhoven always has the weirdest decks winning, so its not really justified proof.
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« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2004, 09:31:42 pm »

Probably, but I'm a goblin fan and like seeing them there  Twisted Evil  Besides if a deck wins in a particular area then it's not wierd, it just means it's better for that area. Just like if sui-black is played with a lot of control it's good, but if they played it in an area with a lot of aggro that'd be an idiot. O and I like to give Kerz a hard time  Wink
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« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2004, 09:38:56 pm »

I noticed you don't have a link for a Fish discussion, and I have one going at: http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9262
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« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2004, 10:21:59 pm »

This is great, thanks Kerz! One thing though, that O. Stompy build is old (one of Razor's first) The vineyards getting dumped is the biggest diff.
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« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2004, 10:33:21 pm »

I Updated the O. Stompy list..

Also, I don't really like to use Non-North American results. The decks that win Dulman and Einhoven are always noticably janky, and not optimal to any strech of the mind, in my opinion.

I am going to be doing a mini budget sub-article next month. My next article should be published by March 1, this one is going to be 10 times more explicative in decks' workings, up-to-the minute with decklist updates, include more decks and even a budget section. I am hoping it will grace the front page.

Thanks for everyone's support, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.
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« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2004, 11:04:47 pm »

Nice research, Kerz. I read your whole post now that I finished my own article, but I've got a gripe with this comment:
Quote from: Kerz
Also, I don't really like to use Non-North American results. The decks that win Dulman and Einhoven are always noticably janky, and not optimal to any strech of the mind, in my opinion.

This seems rather preposterous, considering that Dulmen is one of the largest tournaments in the format. I can understand dismissing Eindhoven as a small tournament with skewed results, but you can hardly dismiss the large tournaments simply on the basis that they don't use the same lists as we do here. Especially since they've begun to have much-increased appearances of control decks, and tech which has been incorporated in N. American builds, such as the third Decree in Keeper, which I first heard about in January's Dulmen.

Let's not be America-centric here. :)
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« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2004, 11:37:32 am »

Since, I wanna reply to that TnT artical but can't heres my 2 cents here.

I've tested Pyrostatic Pillar AND Chalice of the Void in my deck.  The decklist is remarkably similar minus 1 shop and I only run the budget moxen  Confused  but thats a side note..
Heres the situations I run into with each:

Pyrostatic Pillar
With the pillar I can take out most decks easily, play what I need, etc.  But a few problems are that Pillars is not an artifact.  This may not seem like a big deal, the only problem I have ever run into with my deck is when I need a cheap 'fact to weld into play.  Chalic would be an option where this would not.

Chalice of the Void
Chalice is a bit more touchie.  The chalice can take out more situations indefinately, it guarantees there is no immediate play of the cards you want to lock.  However this is also edged for you.  I find I often want to chalice for 1 or 2.  With a chalice for 1 further welders, scrappers, or mox monkies.  This HAS been a problem when a rogue triskelion slips through and shoots me in the foot.  The chalice for 2 hinders if you lose your survival somehow.

Overall Chalice is weldable, and can stop what needs to be stopped.  But Pillars doesn't hurt you nearly as much.  I know it's a simple matter of playing chalice well.. But If you use it, you MUST be careful.
Aside from that it's simply a matter of your metagame and your own choice.  I intend to test each more, but unfortunately I am leaning towards the pillars right now.
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« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2004, 03:16:44 pm »

A wonderful job, Kerz.  I hope that this can be done every month.   This might be better-off stickied (stuck?) or as an article on the main page.  Your efforts should not be overshadowd by a few minor complaints.
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« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2004, 05:54:34 pm »

I'm taking all the minor complaints into consideration for the next awesome-sauce filled installment of the article.

Smile


I am working towards the next one making the main page.
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« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2004, 12:07:35 pm »

When do you think you'll be able to have a budget gauntlet up? If you do, Vineyard TnT is a very nice option.
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« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2004, 02:55:32 pm »

Future Inclusions:

Top Tier(ish) article:
1. Ninja/Vanguir Mask


And for the Budget/Non-top-tier-deck article:
1. Sligh
2. Sui
3. BG Unbazzared Bragon
4. Slax
5. Parfait (sorry K-Run)
6. Goblins
7. R/g Beats
8. Budget O. Stompy
9. Food Chain Goblins
10. Vineyard TnT
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« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2004, 03:26:30 pm »

What about Eon Blue Apocalypse ( EBA) as one of the better decks? I know it isn't being discussed much but it did place second at Waterbury, wich doesn't look like the easiest thing to do.

Link and decklist:

Quote

SETH LEVY
2nd Place

1 Time Walk
3 Ophidian
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Mana Drain
4 Meddling Mage
4 Force of Will
1 Mystical Tutor
3 Phyrexian Negator
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Swords to Plowshares
3 Duress
2 Vindicate
2 Exalted Angel
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Ancestral Recall

3 Underground Sea
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Sol Ring
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Plains
1 City of Brass
1 Black Lotus

SB:
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Exalted Angel
1 Moat
1 Disenchant
1 Serenity
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Energy Flux
1 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Stifle
1 Ebony Charm
3 Damping Matrix


[/color][/i]
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« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2004, 03:57:08 pm »

Kerz ~ Great Thread.  I was planning on putting together a gauntlet for The Cape however getting the better decklists isn't the easiest task not knowing many people.  Id like to make note on the North America decklists comments.    

As it was said Metagames are varied place to place.  However  In Large Tournaments Similar decks appear.

I'd have to agree with Kerz however when he said he wants to keep this Gauntlet North American.  

I'd like to see someone make a Gauntlet relating to European metagames but it shouldn't be merged with a meta'd gauntlet here.

To comment on the Budget lists, and/or gobbo's etc - along why they shouldn't be put on lists such as this.   Isn't it just decided that when you make a gauntlet the budget-esque decks should be played against as well? Isn't that a given?
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« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2004, 11:00:53 pm »

Great, great article. Not only does it help guys like me who don't get to play much have an idea what's out there, it also serves as a nice way for people to see decklists for all the popular archetypes. Keep up the great work.

Looking forward to seeing that Budget version soon, too!
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« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2004, 03:17:01 pm »

Thanks guys-

@savekeeper: Thanks for the DL and stuff, but I have everything taken care of already.  Wink
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« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2004, 01:30:55 pm »

that was a fantastic article you wrote, but I wondered where Oath of Druids was.  Is this still a viable design and why are there no recent updates other than the very out of date version listed on www.morphling.de
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« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2004, 12:03:03 am »

Quote from: jshields
that was a fantastic article you wrote, but I wondered where Oath of Druids was.  Is this still a viable design and why are there no recent updates other than the very out of date version listed on www.morphling.de


Actually, Queequeg posted an updated Oath deck not too long ago. You should be able to find it by searching.
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« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2004, 12:28:29 am »

Quote from: jshields
that was a fantastic article you wrote, but I wondered where Oath of Druids was.  Is this still a viable design and why are there no recent updates other than the very out of date version listed on www.morphling.de

Also, Oath is not a competitive deck for the most part. Too focused on beating aggro.
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