[Deck] Boom.dec

[Rane]

Ok, this is a complete shot in the dark.  This deck is STILL IN TESTING STAGES and so any well thought input would be helpful.  General idea of the deck is to explode via pump and Naturalize.  So far it can goldfish around turn 3-4, more respectably thought, it seems to be able to WIN some matchups turns 3-6.  A lot more testing and card discussion is needed, but here's the decklist as it stands.

Boom.dec
MD:
4xKird Ape
4xJackal Pup
4xCarnophage
4xSarcomancy

4xRancor
4xBriar Shield
4xGiant Growth
4xSeal of Strength
4xReckless Charge
4xBerserk

1xMox Ruby
1xMox Emerlad
1xMox Jet
1xBlack Lotus
4xWooded Foothills
4xTaiga
4xBadlands
4xBayou

SB:
I ain't gonna bother thinkin about this till I am somewhat content with the decklist.

All in all, this deck will surprise you.  Test it like twice in appr. and you'll see what I mean.  Main problems are mana base concerns, it being prone to disruption, thoughts of cutting red and going G/B.  Perhaps adding Unholy Strength there... (not many people are going to 2nd turn swords a carnophage just 'cause I played Unholy Strength on it.)  Also if anyone knows a card that is in any way similar to Berserk then I would love to know about it.  Having 8 would be great.  Rancor provides the trample if Berserk doesn't show up, which it doesn't 40% of the time .  Also don't know about the Mox's.  In a two colour version maybe, but with three they seem to provide mana screw.  Lastly the reason for the creature choices is 'cause you NEED two toughness.  You can't let a Mogg Fanatic/Shaman/Welder/Elf/Fish/Whatever trade with you.  If they block you need to kill the blocker so you can get through next turn.  Rancor does wonders here.  Would love to find a 1cc 2/2 to replace Pup, currently I HAVE to put Briar Shield on it 2nd turn just so it can attack.  Unfortunaly can't find a good replacement...

Remember this is just a random idea I'm testing.

So any idea's?

[Plainswalker]

I never personally liked Zooish decks but here's some ideas

Black doesn't really seem to be giving you anything that Red and Green can't. I know they give you that extra toughness, but most of the time it A) won't matter or B) you burn the offending creature out of the way. Also if you do run 3 colors, the mox can get kinda bad in the sense that you need many colors first turn right away, same with duals, probably add another fetchland to help that out.

To many pump spells as well, Go with a healthy mix of creatures, burn and pump. I would run Lighting bolt over giant growth because they do the same things in a way, but lighting bolt does them better. With 4 Berserk which you probably don't need all of, your gonna be losing a lot of creatures, so less targets for those pump spells.

Finally there is no "hate" in here. For a aggro deck to work it useally needs to run some form of disruption, either wasteland, null rods or both. Or something else even, but there has to be some way for your deck to at least slow them down early or keep them at bay mid game.

[Rane]

I never personally liked Zooish decks but here's some ideas

Black doesn't really seem to be giving you anything that Red and Green can't. I know they give you that extra toughness, but most of the time it A) won't matter or B) you burn the offending creature out of the way. Also if you do run 3 colors, the mox can get kinda bad in the sense that you need many colors first turn right away, same with duals, probably add another fetchland to help that out.

To many pump spells as well, Go with a healthy mix of creatures, burn and pump. I would run Lighting bolt over giant growth because they do the same things in a way, but lighting bolt does them better. With 4 Berserk which you probably don't need all of, your gonna be losing a lot of creatures, so less targets for those pump spells.

Finally there is no "hate" in here. For a aggro deck to work it useally needs to run some form of disruption, either wasteland, null rods or both. Or something else even, but there has to be some way for your deck to at least slow them down early or keep them at bay mid game.

This is not a Zoo deck.  Or Beats, or any other type of R/G deck.  I don't have burn to clear the way that's why I need the 2 toughness.  In this deck Pump >>> far greater than >>> Burn.  The closest thing this deck plays to is old-skool Stompy, but even there it's quite different.  The entire point of this deck is to trample through with pump.  Berserk is my main kill card, although with Rancor also providing trample I can kill w/o drawing a 'serk.  If I put in disruption elements it hurts my consistency.  This deck is all about threats.  Try it for two games in apprentice and you'll see.  Ironically it's biggest problem is control.  It out-races all aggro so far in my trailing, and can even go head-to-head with Dragon.  With SB Null Rod's it may be able to out-race Dragon and Prison.  Control however can Swords/Chailce/Counter/Fire-Ice.  These are my main problems.

So far cards I'm thinking about;
- Aggressive Urge
- Predator's Strike
- Monstrous Growth

SB:
- Null Rod
- Seedtime
- Artifact Mutation

The problem I have is any card that goes in as an answer must also be able to be a threat.  For example I would love a card that could be a counterspell or a pump.

[Rico Suave]

I would definitely recommend sticking with R/G.  You could use Skyshroud Elite, for starters.

If you're looking for a Berserk-esque spell, maybe you could use Fling?  Blood Lust?

[Rane]

I would definitely recommend sticking with R/G.  You could use Skyshroud Elite, for starters.

If you're looking for a Berserk-esque spell, maybe you could use Fling?  Blood Lust?

I'm an idiot, I COMPLETLY forgot about 1337's.  They may very well go in for Pup's.  Bloodlust is like super bad, however I am thinking about Monstrous Growth, Predator's Strike and Fists of the Anvil.  Fling looks not to bad for this deck, only problem is it doesn't give trample to let the attack through, so it's kinda like half a Berserk.  Will consider.

Mod's: Why was this moved to the Newbie Forum?  I would appreciate it if it was moved back to the open T1 forums, don't knock it till you've tried it.

[Laertes]

My first  impression is that this is a deck that reflects a lot of 1997ish thinking and meta. That wasn't intended to be a put-down- just observation.

1 Like plainswalker said, aggro decks work fine on 1 or 2 colors, the third just makes you bloodmoon bait and less consistant.

2 Adding burn is an improvement.  I know pump is cool with 4 berserks- but  it won't help you out as much as burn.  Burn gives you a back-up against effects that shut down all creatures (moat, swords on a scepter).  You don't have to wait to get an attacking creature.  Lastly, killing opposing creatures can win games- ie welders or lavamancers.

3 Using duress gives you a prayer against combo decks that can out-race you.

[Rane]

No offense taken, but can people PLAY this deck like at least once before they pass disregard on it?  I'm not saying this thing is going to win T1 championships anytine soon, but it doesn't look half bad.  So far I can beat Keeper(2004), Stax, Spoils-Mask, Slaver, Sligh, O-Stompy, Dragon, PT Funk, R/G Beats, Chrono Stasis, MBC, MUC.  Not all on average but they are the decks in my meta I have been testing against and it does amazingly well far and above my expectations.  I really think it has potential.  Think of it kinda like faster Tog except any creature can be the 'Mr.Teeth'.  If you test the deck it can easily out-race moat, which nobody uses anyway.  Swords on a sceptre is too slow to pwn this deck, but like I said swords does hurt.  I may try Duress for Control/Combo matchups... but I just hate seeing it when I could have got 'serk for the win.

Please actually try the deck.

[Kowal]

Not everyone has time to test a deck that they look at and shrug thinking "Pile"

I'm trying very hard not to offend you, but one of the cardinal rules of posting a decklist is to provide us with a reason to test your deck.  Some tournament results or solid reasoning is all it takes.

Keep in mind most of us are busy enough trying to playtest our favorite deck, let alone other common archetypes, and further beyond a random list from the intarweb.

[Rane]

I take no offense from constructive criticism and I am a very open-minded person.  In my first post I demonstrated that it can kill VERY quickly.  Even in real magic and not goldfish mode.  I do not mean for people to waste hours testing it, I simply meant if you can't see how an average turn 3-6 turn kill is possible go test it for TWO matches.  This deck is blazingly fast, and I'm not even taking into account some of the thing Moxen 'n Lotus can do.

I wouldn't take it to a tourney yet as I said it is just in the testing phase, but dam for a rough draft deck from a simple idea I had I'm very impressed.  Not that type of noob impressed cause something looks cool. The type of impressed where I can kill Keeper before they got a single mox down sometimes.

For those of you who cannot be bothered to go to appr. -
Turn 1:
Land, Drop creature.
Turn 2:
Land, Drop creature, Rancor/Briar/Charge Creature, attack for 3-7.
Turn 3:
Land, Any type of Pump and/or more pump/creature whatever, attack, maybe 'serk for win.
Turn 4:
Drop creature, Charge or Flashback Charge it, or just pump the $#!7 out of somethin, trample for win with rancor or go berserk with Berserk.
Turn X:
Keep droppin threats and pumpin, but they seriously are dead by about here, if not soon after.

Like I said biggest problems are StP, Counters and recently my opponent keep getting Rit>Deed!!! like EVERY 2nd turn.  I have very bad luck.

[Sytupal]

Where are the null rods or hate of any kind?  Root maze? anything?

 I know you may think im trying to turn this into some sort of Oshawa however without hate, the turn 3-5 "goldfishing" doesn't do anything for us.  If you originated this thread in the Type 1 open forum I'm making the assumption you want this to eventually have potential of a type 1 threat.  

A stompy'esque, oshawa-esque, aggro'esque deck needs the hate to survive.  Otherwise it looks like it may get figuritively trampled upon.  Playtesting against others to figure out what is your weakest card so you can pull them for other cards such as null rod is something that you should probably do.  That's my two cents.
-Rich

[Rane]

Argh, people please listen.  It goldfishes 3-4, WINS in REAL MATCHUPS 3-6!  I have tested and Adding most disrupt just makes it less consistent.  Null Rod, Artifact Mutation, Seedtime have all been considered for SB slots, but NOT MD.  Duress is the ONLY card that I think might make the MD cut but even it I think might have to be retired to the SB.  If you test the deck, or at least READ MY POSTS then you should be able to see why it is so effective without disrupt.  It stomps all over aggro with only TnT being a threat, hence why the SB Rod's and Mutation, and Control gives it SOME concern with Swords and counters, hence seedtime, Perhaps Blood Moon or ReB's, and as for Combo this can actually race Dragon quite easily especially with SB Null Rod.  Duress will only make the Combo and Control matchups even stronger.  This deck is dissed just because nobodies seen it before.  They try and relate it to other decks.  IT'S A NEW IDEA.  MAYBE close to 'tog but even then tog has control elementsm this can kill faster than 'tog even when disrupted a little bit.  My only main concern is the mana base hence why perhaps the cut of one colour.  But each colour really helps...

[Lashkar]

Hmm, what I don't get is why I would run this over any established combo deck, seeing that this deck has no disruption and all decent combo decks have enough disruption to actually beat control, even through FoWs, drains, swords and what not.

What I'm searching for is the reason to play it, goldfishing turn 3-4 and killing turn 3-6 is hardly impressive at all any longer. Obviously, this doesn't mean that the deck can't be fun - everybody with an inner Timmy will probably find "I giant growth my rancored kird ape, respond with fists of the anvil, resolve?, BERSERK!, hahahah, I win" pretty funny. But as a competitive deck, I can't see it being viable until further arguments have been made. If it was viable, we might as well all be playing full powered 4-colour combo food chain goblins (which is damn fun, btw).

[Toad]

You can't tell people to stop commenting your deck because they have not tested it. If you post a decklist here, be ready to face criticisms. I don't have time to playtest my own decks has much as I wish I could do, so why would I bother testing an non commented decklist posted by someone I don't even know? Claiming you can goldfish by turn 3 or 4 and kill in real Magic by turn 6 is nice but could you tell me then:

* How do you deal with first turn Dreadnoughts?

* What do you do when your Briar Shilded Rancored Berserked Jackal Pup gets Sworded?

* What do you do against Triskelion or a recursive Duplicant?

* What do you do against Long and his 70% turn 2 kills ? Or against Dragon's third turn kills?

* What do you do when a Mindslaver forces you to throw your dudes into Giant Growthed Goblin Welders?

You have NO MD solution to the current best decks. No Chalice of the Void. No Null Rod. No Root Maze. No Ground Seal. No Xantid Swarms. No Blood Moons. No Wastelands. Pure narrow Aggro strategies are absolute crap. You need Control elements if you want to win games.

So far I can beat Keeper(2004), Stax, Spoils-Mask, Slaver, Sligh, O-Stompy, Dragon, PT Funk, R/G Beats, Chrono Stasis, MBC, MUC.

Testify. Say how. Because the only conclusions I draw from this quoted sentence is : "OMG his playtest partners need to learn how to play Magic". (No offense here, just a personal thought)

[Razor]

Mr.Rane: You want to listen to these good peoples' advice.  I know you're excited.  I remember my lil brother beating me in the head for 36 damage with his Birds of Paradise in the Ice Age.  Wow ~ that was cool then and is now.

Disruption is actually some good I hear.

Your purported byes versus the top decks you mentioned are suspicious.  Stax would run this deck over.  eg.You have so few permanents to combat Wire and 'Stack with and nil disruption to slow them down with.

Rico Suave: "If you're looking for a Berserk-esque spell, maybe you could use Fling? Blood Lust?"

Fling is an excellent card for a pump deck.  Bounty of the Hunt?  Land Grant?

Is your threat density high enough?  Mishra's Factories would help ensure you had a threat to stick your pump onto.  Maybe Troll Ascetics would add some untargettable-hard-to-Disk-stability to your deck.  Then they can't just Plow in response to your 'pump-pump-pump-I-pass-priority' gaining game-breaking, stupid-huge card advantage in the process.

How does your deck like: turn 1 Chalice for 1?  Or Keg?  Or Wasteland?  Or Library of Alexandria?  Or Tolarian Academy?  Or Academy Rector?  Or Story Circle?  Or Mother of Runes?  Or Moat?  Or Abyss?  I think Naturalize, Troll, and Mox Monkey can solve some of these problems.  That new Naturalize elf may help in here too, dunno yet.

I hope bebe replies.  He's been beating me in the head for 26 damage all in one turn with his pumped Blistering Firecats and Shivan Wurms.  F-Kitties are pretty nifty in his old-school pump deck cuz they aren't very tasty Mana Drain targets (morphed cost zero) and cuz they trample; Wurms trample, too.  This deck needs trample or some other evasion.

Don't let me burst your bubble here.  Work it man, work it.  I love rogue decks, trust me on that.  But, don't expect us to help you shine your apple either until you listen to some good advice, make it tasty-good and post some good results in a tourney.

[Plainswalker]

First off I said Zooish

Ok, this is a complete shot in the dark. This deck is STILL IN TESTING STAGES and so any well thought input would be helpful.

You said it yourself, not me. Even old school stompy as you compared it to was highly metagamed or it really had no chance of winning, I remember little things like sphere or resistence at least to buy a turn vs some decks.

Toad made the point for all of us, tell us how it beats these decks, not that it can. If you really like I'll Apprentice this up some time today or tommorow, but I can't promise anything

Also have you looked at Black-Green aggro? or something with artifacts? I just see it as this, if your gonna use 4 berserk, let it be good on it's own. Berserking a Negator would be so so much cooler then berserking a kird ape, which needs pump spells to make the hit so big. This might be considered more towards PT Funk type of deck, but then don't let that discourage you. All we ask is if it's close to something else, then you tell us why we should play this over another deck similar to it. Your going to have to, most any aggro you build anyways is gonna have a name put to it because there are only so many color combinations

[rozetta]

* How do you deal with first turn Dreadnoughts?

* What do you do when your Briar Shilded Rancored Berserked Jackal Pup gets Sworded?

* What do you do against Triskelion or a recursive Duplicant?

* What do you do against Long and his 70% turn 2 kills ? Or against Dragon's third turn kills?

* What do you do when a Mindslaver forces you to throw your dudes into Giant Growthed Goblin Welders?

Looking at the list, my first thought was something more along the lines of:

* What do you do about Ancient Tomb, Chalice for 1, go?

[bebe]

I'll enter the fray ... I play a combo deck that utilises Fling and Berserk. It is predecated on getting a first or second turn Shivan or Fircat out and then simply winning. It went 2-2 last tournament and if Wu had not kicked my butt and a questionable match against Void ( I made way to many play errors) it would have made top four. Madness is bad ... O. Stompy is beatable. So is control but you need to put four Xantids main deck or side. Still it is a  very tough match. Aggro combo is poor against control - I side in four Xantids and Blasts for a chance and mulligan aggressively.
Lets look at the pump ...
I use ...

Ten pump spells
GG
Blood Lust - this is bad for you?
Invigorate or Reckless Charge ( keep going baqck and forth with these)

My creatures are two fold
mana accelerators ( which I've flung for a win ) ( TinderW., BoP O. Lumberjacks)
big, big beasts ( Shivans, Firecats)
FtKs - a concession for Madness.

I then add three each of Berserks and Flings.

Where or where is your search? Add Wheel and Sylvan ... either are almost auto win if resolved. Ask Razor, he's seen them in action.

mana base
fetches and EsGs are tech alonfg with power.

On to the issue of hate ...
I main deck none. This is pure beatdown combo. I keep hate in the side for game two.

match ups -
control - not in your favor but learn the deck and sideboard well and you have a chance
stax - my build has the creatures,permanents and speed to make this a good match up
madness - you could fold up your cards but I guess if you are lucky ...
r/g beatz, zoo, FCG - You will win
long - never tested but I dread the match up.
dragon - surprisingly not too bad after sideboarding. Game one is who goes off first and it likely will not be you - counters and disruption hurt.

These types of decks are a blast to play. Are they Tier 1? Who are we kidding? There are way too many iffy match ups and your match up analysis looks a bit skewed to me.

[Rane]

Ok, it has come to my attention that everyone seems to have COMPLETLY the wrong impressions about me.  I am a serious T1 player.  I have a very competitive metagame piloted by great players.  I am one of if not the best in my field.  This deck was a random idea that I had and I'm not a little kid who goes 'WOOT, BERSERK = ROXORS!@!'.  I'm 17 and know how to play.  It was just an idea I was tinkering around with.  I already stated that there were several things I didn't like about this deck, which everyone then also stated as if I didn't know.  I said those matchups were winable, I also stated that it does not win all of those games on average.  Yes things like first turn Chalice pwn me, that's why I was asking for help to this random idea I had.  Bebe so far seems to be the only person who has HELPED instead off just going 'it has problems X, Y and Z'.  I know everyone's just trying to help and I WELCOME ALL CRITISICM, but sparking some idea's like HOW to overcome these problems would be much more benificial.

On that note;
- I love the idea of Xantid Swarm SB for control and combo matchups.
- I have always like Rit>Gator in my Sui deck, but for this deck it seems if I have to rit then that's one less pump card, and bebe knows it's all about the pump.
- I'm definatly SB'ing Null Rod.  Along with Xantid Swarms these will be tech in the Combo and Control matchups.
- I would love mana disruption... but can't use wastelands for obvious reasons.  I need to use all my mana toi play spells.  What do people think about good 'old Mox Monkey?  He can eat Mask and Chalice if I dropped him first...
- WoF I always hated in my Sligh, always giving the combo/control player a new hand with FoW is just abitch when trying to go off.
- This decks biggest weakness is still StP just like it was at the start.  Any idea's on this?  Methinks Duress is all I got.
- This decks MAJOR advantage is that it can rape most aggro.  MOST, not all.  Only problem is the mana base... to cut red?

[Razor]

Bebe so far seems to be the only person who has HELPED instead off just going 'it has problems X, Y and Z'. I know everyone's just trying to help and I WELCOME ALL CRITISICM, but sparking some idea's like HOW to overcome these problems would be much more benificial.

@Rane: Please savour and count your blessings.  Off the top of my head the following people have made card suggestions in this thread with some rationale why: Rico Suave, bebe, Toad and I - at least that many people, probably more.

Mox Monkey seems to be way better than Pup in here to help combat Chalice and to disrupt your opponents a little.

@bebe: please post your list.

[Razor]

Reckless Charge might be good, too.

[Matt]

He already has Reckless Charge.

ESG seems a natural fit.  Invigorate, which isn't very good on its own, gets a lot better with Berserk to double it up.

[kl0wn]

- This decks biggest weakness is still StP just like it was at the start.  Any idea's on this?  Methinks Duress is all I got.

You're heavy green, right? Why don't you just run Xantid Swarm maindeck? You can always Rancor/Growth/Berserk him for the win...

[bebe]

I run a similar deck as i stated and the original build had four Xantids main deck. I found too often that i wished for a BoP or big beast when I drew them as they are useful only in certain number of match ups (StPs are bad but so common as to be a problem).  
You need to make choices with your pump spells. I ran invigorates, Blood Lust and GG last outing. I missed the Reckless Charges. So either Ivigorrats or Blood Lusts needed to go. Against a field of burn ( Madness with Gambits, Sligh, Fire/Ices, FtKs), Invigorate is obviously the better choice as you can tap out and beat. As stated, I almost always used them in conjunction with Berserk or Fling. Against a different field Blood Lusts cabn be the difference of winning a turn earlier.