[Deck] Trinisphere Prison-Combo Thing

[theorigamist]

I wanted to hold off this deck for a while until I could do some real testing instead of just goldfishing, but now is when everybody is talking about Trinisphere, so I thought it would be good to get this list out in the open.  Basically, I took a list of Slavery and cut a bunch of stuff and then added some other stuff, including 4 Trinispheres and a combo-ish win condition.  Then I called it Trinisphere Combo, because I'm unoriginal.

Trinisphere Combo

Mana: 32
4 [card]Volcanic Island[/card]
4 [card]Shivan Reef[/card]
4 [card]Mishras Workshop[/card]
4 [card]Wasteland[/card]
2 [card]Ancient Tomb[/card]
2 [card]Seat of the Synod[/card]
2 [card]Gilded Lotus[/card]
1 [card]Black Lotus[/card]
1 [card]Mox Sapphire[/card]
1 [card]Mox Jet[/card]
1 [card]Mox Ruby[/card]
1 [card]Mox Pearl[/card]
1 [card]Mox Emerald[/card]
1 [card]Sol Ring[/card]
1 [card]Mana Crypt[/card]
1 [card]Mana Vault[/card]
1 [card]Strip Mine[/card]

Lock/Win: 16
4 [card]Lodestone Myr[/card]
4 [card]Trinisphere[/card]
4 [card]Goblin Welder[/card]
2 [card]Time Vault[/card]
2 [card]Mindslaver[/card]

Card drawing/Search: 12
4 [card]Thirst for Knowledge[/card]
1 [card]Ancestral Recall[/card]
1 [card]Time Walk[/card]
1 [card]Timetwister[/card]
1 [card]Windfall[/card]
1 [card]Memory Jar[/card]
1 [card]Wheel of Fortune[/card]
1 [card]Tinker[/card]
1 [card]Minds Eye[/card]

The card drawing/search section is all self-explanatory.  So is the mana section, except perhaps why there is so much of it.  The lock/win section is basically 16 of the most synergistic cards ever.  Lodestone with Time Vault is an instant win.  Lodestone taps Trinisphere when you need to cast a bunch of Moxen or something.  You all know what Welder does in an artifact deck.  I didn't want to cut Mindslavers entirely because, if nothing else, they are the single best card to set up with right before you're going to win.  (I'm talking about the frequent situation when you've cast Lodestone, you've got Time Vault in hand, and you can't attack with your Lodestone yet, but obviously next turn you will win; so you do some Mindslaver stuff, waste their next turn doing nothing, then win the game.)  The deck would seem to be slow, especially in that the win condition is a 4CC creature.  But since Lodestone Myr also acts as a lock condition, it can take its time to set up for its own attack.

Thoughts about testing:

-In about thirty solitaire games of testing, the deck goldfishes in three to four turns.  Only twice did it take longer than four turns.  

-I would like there to be more card drawing and two less mana sources.

-I was skeptical about Thirst for Knowledge at first, thinking Brainstorm was clearly the better choice.  I have not tested this with Brainstorm, but I am convinced Thirst for Knowledge is at least much stronger than I originally gave it credit for.

-The deck doesn't need two Time Vaults.  Vault does nothing outside of combo win for you.  That said, I wouldn't cut them entirely, because it does speed up the win by almost a turn.  But I think one can be cut with no harm done.  Perhaps a third Mindslaver could take its place.  I was never disappointed to see Slaver.

-This deck probably wants some more colored mana.  Solutions are either more colored mana sources or Mycosynth Lattice.

Potential problems when I start really testing:

-The deck seems to have few real threats.  If the Lodestones are taken care of, the deck doesn't stand much chance.  Also, the prevalence of graveyard hate right now will be a bitch to my Welders.

-The deck is vulnerable.  If I sacrifice a billion turns to Vault and then they kill Lodestone, I have no choice but to scoop.  (This brings me to a rules question: If I gain a turn afterwards, say, in the second main phase with a Time Walk, do I get one more turn before I give up a million turns?  If so, then the deck has a pretty good chance of Weldering the Lodestone back and winning the next turn anyway.)

-It's hard to judge Mind's Eye while goldfishing.  It wasn't great, but I hope it will prove to be much better.


Please share thoughts on the deck, and any sideboarding ideas.  I would do Stifles, REBs, Tormod's Crypts, etc. except for the lack of synergy with Trinisphere.  In the end, I may have to just ignore the anti-synergy and play the cheap hate cards.

Edit: Changed the name of the deck to avoid incorrect assumptions.  Let the discussion continue.

Edit 2: I just realized I could do the card link thing.  Sweet.

[Jakedasnake]

Lodestone Myr+Time Vault.

You've got balls, but I've got Disenchant.

Like you've said, Lodestone Myr, which seems like all you've got, is basically open to any removal in Type 1.

And really, how is this better than straight Slavery?

[DEA]

and also, the aim of slaving someone is to kill that someone with his own deck
if you slow the action down with trinisphere, you won't be able to combo himself out in the slavery turn

[Jacob Orlove]

and also, the aim of slaving someone is to kill that someone with his own deck
if you slow the action down with trinisphere, you won't be able to combo himself out in the slavery turn

Trinisphere shuts down when tapped. He runs Lodestone Myr.

[DEA]

oops  

[theorigamist]

You've got balls, but I've got Disenchant.

Like you've said, Lodestone Myr, which seems like all you've got, is basically open to any removal in Type 1.

Yes I do, and yes you might, and yes it is.  But you're ignoring the controlling aspect of the deck.  Trinisphere makes Disenchants cost three.  5 Strips and Welder (against artifact mana) can usually deny white when it's the off-color in a deck.  Also, this deck aims to out-accelerate and outdraw the other guy.

And really, how is this better than straight Slavery?

Really, I don't know.  I have not played Slavery much.  But, based on the lists I've seen of Slavery, I would say they are very different decks, although I did obviously use the core of Slavery in here.  Slavery is much more of a prison deck with a slower win and more control, and this is much more a soft-lock deck with a combo win.  I'm not even sure the two are really comparable.

and also, the aim of slaving someone is to kill that someone with his own deck

That's the idea of Slaving someone in Slavery.  In here it's a setup card.  It can be used differently in the two decks, you know.

Perhaps I'll change the name of the deck to prevent future posters assuming this is a Slavery variant with Trinisphere instead of a Trinisphere deck that happens to run Slaver.

[riggy]

Slavery is much more of a prison deck with a slower win and more control, and this is much more a soft-lock deck with a combo win.

According to Toad's article, slavery.dec is designed to slow down the opponent long enough to find and use a mindslaver. A soft-lock if you will.

If you're going to go for the soft lock, you should probably have more lock components. You have 6 cards total (including the mindslavers) that establish locks. The rest is combo and draw. That seems a little unstable given your stated goal.

And to help with spot removal, try +2 Lightning Greaves. They help with targetted removal and you can never complain about hasted welders or myrs.

EDIT: Here's the link to Toad's article: http://themanadrain.com/slavery.htm

[theorigamist]

According to Toad's article, slavery.dec is designed to slow down the opponent long enough to find and use a mindslaver. A soft-lock if you will.

Can you link to the article?

If you're going to go for the soft lock, you should probably have more lock components. You have 6 cards total (including the mindslavers) that establish locks. The rest is combo and draw. That seems a little unstable given your stated goal.

First of all, I think all the cards except Time Vault in the lock/win category can be considered parts of the lock or at least controlling cards when used as such.  Second, I'm not going for the soft lock.  The soft lock is part of the setup for a quick win.  And I didn't say the deck's purpose is to soft-lock until I combo.  I said:

Also, this deck aims to out-accelerate and outdraw the other guy.

I also said:

this is much more a soft-lock deck with a combo win.

which is what I assume you're referring to.  But, in context, I was comparing/contrasting with Slavery, not talking about the deck's aim in general.

[theorigamist]

Thanks for the PM.  I just read the article (very nice article).  And I realized a few things:

-I am a moron for leaving Tolarian Academy off that list.  Maybe that will replace the extra Time Vault.

-I am aware that I could use Slavery the way he describes.  The other possibility is that playing a Slavery could be a convenient feint.  Obviously if the situation is such that I can kill them with their own cards, I wouldn't pass it up just for a more stylistic combo kill (in fact, I don't think it is more stylistic than stealing their turns).  But the Slaver is more intended to get rid of spot removal/mana to cast spot removal/card drawing to draw into spot removal/are you seeing a pattern here?  

-I should probably test this deck with Blood Moons and/or Chalices, but I honestly don't think they'll be necessary since I have Trinispheres and Lodestones.  However, 1 Karn instead of the fourth Lodestone might be a good idea.  Eat Moxen, block a bunch, alternate win condition...But it's not really part of the deck's strategy so I'm not sure.

I'm still struggling with the sideboard.  I want Mycosynth Lattice in there somewhere.  Blood Moon might be a good idea.  REBs are probably a good idea, and so are Crypts.