Hey,

I have been testing the following list, and I would like to hear some comments about it (negative or positive, but please, be constructive) since I have never seen anything like it in the last months (not sure if anyone have already tested this idea...If you have already seen anything similar, please, feel free to post the deck/idea).


MonoRed Bridge Stax

Lands (22)

4 Mishra`s Workshop
4 Bazzar of Baghdad
4 Wasteland
4 Barbarian Ring
3 Mountain
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Acedmy
1 Ghost Quarter

Creatures (4)

4 Goblin Welder


Artifacts (34)

4 Smokestack
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Tangle Wire
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Null Rod
1 Trinisphere
1 Memory Jar

1 Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt


SB:

4 Grafdigger`s Cage
3 Pithing Needle
3 Dismember
2 Tormod`s Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Duplicant
1 Ensnaring Bridge



As you all can see, this is a Stax deck that tries to lock out the oponent, and then wins with Barbarian Ring or with the lonely Karn, Silver Golem. The major difference in this list is the addition of Ensnaring Bridge. In the past, I tried to test a version of this deck without the Ensnaring Bridges, but the deck had a lot of troubles with Aggro MUD, Dredge or any creature based deck. If they could play a big guy fast, I was doomed. So I began testing this idea with the bridges.
 
In theory, this card stops any kind of strategy related with creatures. For example, Aggro MUD has no way to deal with this card. Their only out is animating the bridge with their Karn and kill it with dupe/trisk/razormane or anything else that deals direct damage (They still need to deal with the Null rods) or lock your manabase wich will cause an increase in the number of cards in your hand, enabling their critters to attack. Your ideal gameplan against Aggro MUD is find a Bridge cast it and keep your hand size low. They cant do nothing after this. Things will be even better if have a Bazzar and a Crucible in the game already, keeping your mana base safe. Also, few shop decks are using Welders, so in theory you will have the advantage here.

This card can also be huge against dredge, since you can empty your hand pretty easily with the help of Bazzar. By using this card in the maindeck, you will be abble to win game 1 against dredge, wich is a huge advantage. Post board you will bring in 4 Cages, 2 Tormods, 1 Nihil and the 4th Bridge, giving you 11 cards against dredge. I only tested a couple of games against dredge, but I could see that g2 and g3 are pretty  favorable to you due to the large quatity of hate this deck can use.

With Oath, the addition of those Bridges helped a lot to keep them from ending the game fast. It not only stops that stupid green enchantment, but also Tinker + Robot. Now, you have more tools to deal with their strategy. At first try your best to keep Oath aou of the game. If they resolve it, dig as fast as you can for a Bridge, to buy time until you find a Smokestack. In games 2 and 3, you can have if you want 9 cards ( 4 Bridges, 4 Cages and 1 Dupe) against them. But don`t pay atention only in the Oath plan and Tinker. They can still win with Jace or the Vault + Key combo.

In testing, the worst matchup seems to be the Fish arquetypes. Scavenning Ooze is a big problem for this deck, since it relies a lot in the graveyard use, like recurring wastes/strip/quarters and your kill condition Barbarian Ring. It also stops the crazyness of Welder + Bazzar, one of the most powerful weapons in this deck. In order to keep the Bridges safe, you will need to cast a Chalice @2 (Which will stop Qasali and Ooze) with Welder or Chalice @1 (Nature's Claim, Lightning Bolt and Swords to Plowshares) with Welder. You don`t fear too much Trygons since you can nulify their ability with Welder or find and cast a Bridge and keep your hand size down.

Another problem that this deck has is against a resolved Jace. Jace ignores the Bridges and ultimate you to death. Your only out is cleaning their board with Smokestack, as fast as you can. Pinging the Jace with Barbarian Ring can also buy you time to find a Smokestack or Needle post board.
 The best answer I could think of, was Pithing Needle, which I am already using 3 in the sb. Also, since this deck uses less sphere effects then the other ones, so you will have less protection against Hurkyls and hate cards. But using less sphere effects doesn`t mean that this deck is not good. You still use the best lock pieces and have a way  to find them and recur them back. You also have a "kind of" drawing engine with the 4 Bazzars. Keep an eye on your hand size so you can keep using bazzar, as a filter or as a digger for the desired lock. Use wisely the chalices. They are one of, if not the best lock piece in this deck. Also, the way this deck causes pressure is through Smokestack+ Spheres/Tangles or Crucible + Sphere/Null Rod + strip effect. With the aid of Bazzar you should be abble to keep doing things every turn and keep the opponent locked.


Well thats it. I still need to test the idea of this deck a lot more to see if it is really viable. So far it has been doing good. It requires a lot of practice and a lot of attention on your plays. Let me know what you guys think of it.

Thanks for reading it!!!!

Hey bro!!!!
Congrats on the finish man, and really good report!

It is good to see your pet deck playing well!!!!

Here is the first list that I am testing.


    3 Island
    1 Tolarian Academy
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Tropical Island
    4 City of Brass
    4 Polluted Delta


    2 Goblin Welder
    1 Sundering Titan
    1 Gorilla Shaman (2)

    1 Time Vault
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mox Pearl
    2 Sensei's Divining Top
    2 Voltaic Key
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Emerald

    1 Gifts Ungiven
    2 Fact or Fiction
    1 Ancient Grudge
    1 Hurkyl's Recall
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    4 Mana Drain
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Thirst for Knowledge
    1 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    1 Mystical Tutor
   
    2 Preordain
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Time Walk
    1 Merchant Scroll
    1 Tinker
    1 Yawgmoth's Will

    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
   


Some explanation for the chosen cards:

2 Keys - Combined with Sensei's Top you have an average drawing engine. This card is also useful to generate more mana when combined with Crypt, Sol Ring and Mana Vault and this deck needs fast mana to be abble to cast Gifts, Jace and Fof as soon as possible.

2 Sensei's: Great tool to dig for desired cards. Can be used as a draw engine when combined with Key

2 Welders: 4 Welders is too much. I prefer to play at least 2, since it can help you assemble the Vault/Key combo easier, makes Gifts even more stronger than it already is, can be used as a way to remove the oponents Tinker Bot and when combined with Gorilla Shaman against Stax, things get messy pretty fast.

1 Sundering Titan - This guy is really vulnerable, but his "comes in to play" ability against blue decks are so damn powerful that I decided to test it. Most blue decks are playing with 3 or 4 colors, making this guy even more stronger.

2 FoF: The card is strong, I know, but using 4 of them is too much. I might try 3, but not 4. The 4th FoF i prefer to be Gifts Ungiven.

As for the mana base, I decided to try the mana base used in that DemarsControl deck. It seems solid for this kind of deck.

Feel free to comment. Thanks

Thanks a lot for posting the decklists on Morphling.de. I really apreciate it!
Increasing the Vintage scene here is a tough task, but I think we are increasing in numbers. But even if the numbers don't increase, we still have some good friend to play with and a have good time. On 2012, 2 friends and I are planning to go to Gencon. Hope to see you there Tobi.

Auf Wiedersehen, mein Freund!!!

Hey,

So, last weekend we had the 4th Vintage Tourney at Universo Paralelo. Unfortunately, we only had 9 players, but even with a small number of players, I think everybody had a blast. From my point of view, it is very rewarding to have a store that offers a good place to play our monthly Vintage Tourneys and the opportunity to spend some time with great people and friends. We will keep doing this, even if the number of players doesn't increase. Our next event will be on September 24th, in the same place. See you all there.  

Here is the top 4:


The Brazilian Vintage League


1st Rafael Koenmah - Bob Gush


4 Dark Confidant
3 Trygon Predator
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Blightsteel Colossus
(10)

4 Gush
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Pierce
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
(17)

1 Ponder
4 Preordain
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth’s Will
(10)

1 Fastbond
(1)

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
(8)

1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Island
(14)


SB:

1 Ancient Grudge
2 Ingot Chewer
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Mountain
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Yixlid Jailer
1 Tendrils of Agony



2nd Mauro Aliano - Bob Gush

4 Dark Confidant
3 Trygon Predator
1 Inkwell Leviathan
(8)

4 Force of Will
4 Gush
3 Spell Pierce
1 Mana Drain
1 Brainstorm
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
(18)

1 Merchant Scroll
3 Preordain
1 Ponder
1 Tinker
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Time Walk
(9)

1 Fastbond
(1)

1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Black Lotus
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
(10)

4 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Island
(15)


SB:

3 Nature's Claim
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Ingot Chewer
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Mountain
1 Pyroclasm



3rd Leonardo "Leooooh" - RG BridgeStax "Mohamed Tranca Rua"

4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Wasteland
4 Barbarian Ring
3 Taiga
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
(22)

4 Goblin Welder
(4)

1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
(8)

4 Sphere of resistance
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
4 Smokestack
3 Crucible of Worlds
3 Null Rod
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
(26)


SB:

4 Lodestone Golem
2 Duplicant
3 Razormane Masticore
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ancient Grudge
(15)



4th Prata Junior - Gush Storm


1 Blightsteel Colossus

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Nature´s Claim
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Force of Will
2 Mana Drain
4 Gush
2 Spell Pierce
(18)

1 Regrowth
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ponder
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
2 Preordain
1 Tendrils of Agony
(10)

1 Fastbond
(1)

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Sensei's Divining Top
(11)

2 Jace, the Mind Scuptor
(2)

3 Island
1 Volcanic Island
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Polluted Delta
(16)


SB:

2 Ancient Grudge
3 Nature's Claim
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Lightining Bolt
1 Pithing Needle
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
(15)

I would really like to see Demars face now LOL!! Priceless!!!!

Congrats to Mark......Amazing result!!

And all the top8 players.....GGs to everyone!!

1st Anniversary of the New Brazilian Vintage League - July 23th at Universo Paralelo SP - Brazil.

Hey,

So, last weekend we had our first event with a vintage card (Unlimited Time Vault) as a prize for the winner. This was our 1st anniversary event, and after one year of doing those monthly events we decided to offer a better prize for the first place instead of store credits. Unfortunately, we only had 12 players, but I think everybody had a blast.


Below, we have the top 4 players with the prizes:


1st - Mauro Aliano - GW Hate - Unlimited Time Vault

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Relic-Warder
4 Qasali Pridemage
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Gaddock Teeg
2 Kataki War's Wage
2 Vexing Shusher

3 Nature's Claim
3 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares

1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Pearl
1 Black Lotus
4 Aether Vial

1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Seal of Primordium

4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
3 Savannah
3 Forest
3 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Strip Mine

SB
4 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Nature's Claim
1 Ray of Revelation



2nd - Ricardo "Alemão" - Dark Tezz - Lion's Eye Diamond

3 Dark Confidant
2 Trygon Predator
1 Blightsteel Colossus

4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Mana Drain
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Brainstorm
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Thirst For Knowledge

2 Duress
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Tinker
1 Time Walk
1 Merchant Scroll

1 Tezzeret the Seeker
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key

4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
3 Island
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Flooded Strand

SB:

3 Nature's Claim
2 Pithing Needle
2 Duress
2 Yixlid Jailer
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Trygon Predator
1 Chain of Vapor


3rd - Junior Prata - MonoRed Aggro Stax - 2 Scalding Tarn

1 Duplicant
2 Wurmcoil Engine
3 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Goblin Welder
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Precursor Golem


1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

1 Trinisphere
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
4 Thorn of Amethyst

1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra's Workshop
6 Mountain
4 Wasteland


SB:

3 Duplicant
3 Null Rod
3 Sculpting Steel
3 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt



4th - Leonardo "Leooooh" - The Golden Army - 2 Misty Rainforest

4 Goblin Welder
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Precursor Golem
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Duplicant

1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

1 Trinisphere
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Null Rod

1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Ancient Tomb
4 Mishra's Workshop
2 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Taiga
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Scalding Tarn
4 Wasteland


SB:

2 Razormane Masticore
4 Nature's Claim
2 Ancient Grudge
4 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
1 Duplicant

Great primer bro!

I always hate to face this deck playing RG Stax. The transformational sb wrecks my sb options. If I bring in Nature's Claim, you swap to Hermit Druid. If I bring in the grave hate you keep the oath plan. It is a good deck. A very unusual Oath of Druids build.

Great reading!

Hey

Great work bruizar. Its always amazing to see a Welder Stax making top 8. I am a HUGE fan of Welder, and the Welder + Bazaar engine. Broken things can be done,and the recursion that Welder provides is huge. I know exactly what do you mean when you said it won you a lot of games.

I think you should keep the Null Rods on the deck. A lot of people are playing more and more artifacts mana and artifacts that have an activation cost. The ability to shut 2+ moxen with a single card is f.... huge man. Revoker is good, no doubts, but the idea of your deck is better suited for Null Rods.

I would cut the Spheres or the Thorns (I prefer cuting the Spheres of Resistance) for Chalices, and also make Tangle Wire a 4 off. This card is so huge.

Another thing. Don't you ever miss a creature removal, besides the extra slow barbarian ring recursion and Smokestack? I think you might need some Dupes in this build

Hey,

So, on April 16th, we had our 3rd Vintage Tourney at Universo Paralelo, São Paulo, Brazil.A total of 14 Players showed up, to play this amazing format, learn more about it and have a good time with friends. It was great to see some new faces, as well as the faithfull players that have been comming to every event. We had 14 rounds of Swiss, with no cut to the top 4. The prize was store credits.

At last, I would like to thank Gustavo, the owner of Universo Paralelo, for sharing his store with us.



Here are the Top 4 lists



1st - Leonardo "Leooooh" Indini - Worldgorger Dragon Combo

3 Worldgorger Dragon
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
4 Dark Confidant
1 Blighsteel Colossus
(9)
   
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
2 Read the Runes
4 Force of Will
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Mystical Tutor
(11)
   
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
4 Thoughtseizes
1 Imperial Seal
(8)
   
3 Animate Dead
1 Dance of Dead
1 Necromancy
(5)
   
1 Sensei's Top
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
(9)
   
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
3 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Swamp
2 Island
(18)

SB

4 Mana Drain
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Island
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Pithing Needle
1 Doom Blade
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rebuild
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
(15)



2nd - Maurão Aliano - GAS (Grow-a-Snake)

3 Lorescale Coatl
1 Psychatog
(4)

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Mana Drain
4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Gush
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Berserk
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
(24)

3 Thoughtseize
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
(9)

1 Fastbond
(1)

1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Sapphire
(5)

1 Jace the Mind Sculptor
(1)

4 Misty Rainfores
4 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
1 Snow-Covered Island
(16)


SB:

3 Nature's Claim
3 Trygon Predator
2 Duress
2 Extirpate
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Steel Sabotage
1 Jace the Mind Sculptor
1 Island
1 Forest
(15)



3rd - Prata Junior - MonoRed Aggro Welder

4 Goblin Welder
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Precursor Golem
2 Duplicant
1 Wurmcoil Engine
(15)

4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Trinisphere
2 Crucible of Worlds
3 Null Rod
(18)
   
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
(9)

4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Mountain
2 Barbarian Ring
(18)   

   
SB:

2 Duplicant
2 Razormane Masticore
1 Wurmicoil Engine
4 Sculpting Steel
3 Pithing Needle
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod´s Crypt
(15)



4th - Ricardo "Horde Trooper" Lopes - Remora Tezz

4 Dark Confidant
1 Myr Battlesphere
(5)

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Mana Drain
1 Mystical Tutor
3 Spell Pierce
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Vampiric Tutor
(17)

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Time walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will
(4)

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Time Vault
2 Voltaic Key
(15)

1 Jace the Mind Scultor
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
(2)

3 Mystic Remora
(3)

4 Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Swamp
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Underground Sea
(14)


SB

3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Extirpate
3 Mindbreak Trap
4 Steel Sabotage
1 Perish
2 Thoughtseize
(15)



Well, a big thanks to everyone that came to this event!!

Our next event will be on May 21th

Hope to see the same players and new faces as well!!

Peace!!

Hey

Good list man. I goldfished sometimes with it on MWS, and it is really fun to play, but after few tests I would like topoint out some toughts.

- I feel that the deck has too few protection. It does some broken plays in the early game, so adding Spell Pierces might give you some protection for the big bombs. I would say that 2 to 3 pierces would be solid.
- Why no Grim Monolith? Since you are planning to run more than one Myr Battlesphre, Monolith with key would help you a lot. If you add them, do not forget to add more keys and tops, so you can have an alternative draw engine.
- This deck seems to suffer a lot from a resolved Null Rod. Fish and Shops using Rods might give you some headache, while you have 4 Tezz agent of bolas to turn your moxen in to 5/5, I still think those are your worst matches.

Anyway, keep up with the good work man....I am a fan of those Turbo Tezz decks cause they can do pretty broken plays, and that is the fun and reason to play Vintage for me.

Hey Abdullha,

The early versions of this list had a 5c mana base, but after some testings, I decided to keep it RG due to the fact that 5c manabases are not good. Also, when I was using a 5c manabase, I saw that most of my sb cards were red and green, so I decided to make the manabase more solid by turning it just to RG. The reason for adding Green is easy....Nature's Claim and Ancient Grudge. Claim was added to help fight an early Oath as well as to attack MUD lists alongside with Ancient Grudge, that works really well with Bazaar. The rest of the sb is standard I think, with not so much dredge hate bacause few people play this deck here. I do agree with you that a 5c mana base would give a more diverse sideboard, but they need to print something better then Gemstone mine. I only run 2 crucibles, and without them, this land becomes even worse for this kind of strategy, that wantsto deploy a threat every turn.

Now, the Precursor Golem issue. Well, in the 4 rounds of swiss a faced an UBR Remora Tezz (2-0) with steel sabotage on the sb, but Chalice @1 on g2 prevented them to be cast, a BR Control (2-1) with Shattering Spree in the sb but I never saw them, only an Extirpate on Precursor in g2, a GW Hate (2-1) with Swords/Nature's Claim/path to Exile that hit my Precursor in g2, followed by 3 Relic Warders that easily put me out of the game and in the final round a BGW Hate (2-0) with swords in the sb that hit one Precursor, but I was abble to find another with Bazaar and Welder and win g1. This is a lot of removal don't you think? And Swords/Path/Spree/Claim are more crippling than Steel Sabotage.

So my idea of Precursor, is that it is a 9/9 for 5 mana. So taking a removal or a bounce on Precursor is the same as in normal critter, UNLESS you have a Lodestone Golem in the game. But if you are near victory, or have enough lock pieces that will grant you victory, why risk everything casting a Lodestone Golem to see all them bounced or killed? Sometimes you will have to risk it, but I can tell you that Precursor is sick. Huge clock and amazing sinergy with welders.

I hope I could answer your question. If you wanna keep discussing about the deck and card choices (that would be great...having opinions is always good), feel free to post them here or to send me a message that I will answer them as soon as possible.
  


I saw that you posted them on Morphling. Thanks a lot Tobi. We are just starting to spread the word about the format here in São Paulo, and I hope to see more players in the upcoming events. I am still waiting for the decklist of 3rd player. Hope to get it soon. Next event will be on April 16th, and I will sure post it on TheManaDrain..

Hey guys,

My name is Leonardo Indini (Leooooh on The Mana Drain), from Brazil and this is our first report from the Brazilian Vintage community. We found a very good local shop (Universo Paralelo), with a good environment and awesome people. This is the first of many events, since we are spreading the word about the  format in a lot of brazilian sites related to Magic. Standard and extended formats are played a lot here, with an increasing number of legacy players and tourneys, but Vintage is still a legend. Few people know the format, and the rare tourneys that happened in the past, were sanctioned, with no proxies allowed, decreasing even more the number of people.

About 6 months ago, 3 friends (Maurão, Ricardo and Prata) and I (Leonardo) began to meet monthly to playtest some Vintage and discuss about the format. Those meetings caught the attention of some other players interested on Vintage and our numbers began to rise, mainly because we allowed an unlimited number of proxies so that anyone could use Moxes, and other pieces of powers and see how fun the format can be.

Now, with a good place to play our monthly Vintage touneys, we will spread even more the word about the format here in Brazil. Our first Tourney at the Universo Paralelo had only 8 players, but now we could double the number of people. Our goal for the next event is too keep this number, or even increase it to 20+ people, and in time began to offer Vintage cards as prizes.

So, after this little intro, we had a 4 round swiss (14 players), with no cut to the top4. The top4 players of the swiss took store credits as the prize. We had an unlimited number of proxies.


The Metagame:

2 MUDS (1 Null Rod and 1 Aggro with no rods)
1 RG Stax
1 Remora Vault
2 Elephant Oath
1 BGW Hate
1 GW Hate
1 Minus 6
1 BR Control
1 Stasis
2 Mono Red Goblins
(13)


Here are the decklists:


1st - Leonardo Indini - The Golden Army RG Stax

4 Mishara's Workshop
3 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Wasteland
4 Taiga
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Ancient Tomb
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
(21)

4 Goblin Welder
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Precursor Golem
1 Duplicant
(13)

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
(8)

4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Voids
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Null Rod
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trinisphere
(18)


Total = 60

SB:

4 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Nature's Claim
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Duplicant
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Pithing Needle
1 Phyrexian Revoker

(15)



2nd Marcelo Zorzi - BGW Hate

1 Bojuka Bog
2 Bayou
3 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Maze Of Ith
1 Horizon Canopy
(23)

4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Terravore
(12)


1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Black Lotus
3 Sensei's Divining Top
(6)

4 Swords To Plowshares
4 Vindicate
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn To tourach
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Gerrard's Veredict


Total = 60


SB:

2 Perish
3 Etherstorm Canonist
3 Engineered Plague
1 Pernicious Deed
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Extirpate

(15)



3rd Gustavo - BR Control

I am waiting his email with his decklist. Will be up this week!
Sorry!!


4th Junior Prata - Null Rod Aggro MUD

4 Mishra´s Workshop
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
4 City of Traitors
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
(18)

4 Lodestone Golem
4 Precursor Golem
2 Wurmicoil Engine
1 Duplicant
(11)

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
(8)

4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
4 Null Rod
2 Crucible of Worlds
(31)

Total = 60 Cards

SB:

3 Duplicant
4 Sculpting Steel
3 Pithing Needle
1 Razormane Masticore
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Tormod´s Crypt

(15)




Our next event will be on April 16th.


Thanks for reading,


Leonardo Indini
      

Hey Madmanmike, thanks for giving some ideas....here are my thoughts!!!

Indeed, this is a MUD list with 3 welders, 4 bazaars and colored lands, but the first seven cards (bazaars and weders) make it play a little bit different from the usual MUDs lists. Welder provides you the ability to recurr critters as well as another defense. Bazaar helps smooth the dead draws this deck tends to have due to the use of Null Rods. After casting Null Rods, Every other moxen you draw or aditional lands are used to increase your hand size, so you can constantly use bazaar. The key part is always keeping one card in hand so you can have 4 cards in hand after a bazaar use and keep the best of the 4. If you didn't find the card you were looking for, you keep this card in hand, in order to have hand size for another use of bazaar. This is an advantage that MUD decks don't have, while MUD decks tends to have a more faster mana base. Each deck has its props and cons.
About the 5c lands, I prefer using the old duals to the fact that those 2 colors are the best for this kind of deck. I need red for welders and green comes for addition defense and offense as well.
The mana base of the 5c builds are very weak in my point of view. Gemstones are horrible and cities are mid temr. Taigas don't cause you loss of life and crucible plus fetch can be a really good combo sometimes. You see, I just added the second color because green has earned a really powerful card, that is Nature's Claim.


Believe me, I am sold on this little pesky heheheh!! I just few that 3 was the correct number right now. Like I said in the previous posts, I am still testing this list. There are games that I wish I had anoter Welder and others a wish it was a critter to keep the pressure up. The cards I am really testing and that i am not sure about the number are: Null Rod, Welder, Dupes and Bazaars. Nul rod, in some matches area beating, but horrible in fish matchups, while welder shines in the fish and against anything that has counters. SO its kind of difficult, but i Will try to tune this deck to the right portion.
One of the things I am trying to achieve in this build is a kind of MUD list with welders and bazaars, since I love the sinergy that those 2 cards provide together.

Thanks for pointing those things. THey help me to clarify some ideas. Any other ideas will be great man!!!
 

Hey!! I agree 200% with you madmanmike25. Sometimes I get stuck with a colored spell on my hand, with no rg sources on the board. I would really like to increase the number of those sources, but I don't feel that cutting Ancient Tombs, is a good idea. I simply don't know ehat to cut. Can you please give me a sugestion?

Hey there!!

You pointed out a good question GNU. Even knowing that MUD decks have a stronger mana base due to the use of Anciento Tombs and City of Traitors I prefer too to play with Welders. Theyr are so useful, and can help you in every match up. But after a lot of testing, and due to the fact that Vintage is using more and more creatures, I think the right path to go is Aggro. Smokestacks are too slow if you don't play a full set of 13 sphere effects like any MUD list or at least the combination of 4 Spheres, 2 Thorns and 4 Golens of the Expresso stax lists. Well, you can play all those spheres, but then you will loose a lot of gas due to the fact that you do not run a full set of Tombs, and even City of Traitors. As you can see from recent reports, a Mono Red Stax won a big tournament (Ed Carey, in Blue Bell). His deck had the 13 spheres effects, and also Null Rod. But unlike other builds, he ran 4 Ancient Tombs and only 2 Welders. Ahhh, and another thing. His deck pointed a little bit to Aggro too, using 4 Golens, 2 Dupes, Karn and 2 Wurmcoils.

So considering that you wanna play a full set or at least 3 Welders in your build, you will need to increase the red sources. By doind this you will make your manabase slower and kind of more dependant on Shops. This will also make smokestack less effective. You see, I  AM NOT SAYING THAT SMOKESTACK SUCKS, but only that it is slow in the current meta, while in the past it was stronger because more control decks were played. Another point that I would like to pointer in the use of Smokestack, is that against Aggro MUD versions it becomes even more dead, with Metalworkers and Hellkites being played a lot, and they normall can deploy more permanents than you due their fast mana. One last thing, Smokestack is horrible when dealing with Trygons too, even with welder on the board.

Also, like brokenbacon said, Oath is a big problem right now, being a good answer too any kind of Aggro lists. So if you wanna play with welders, you will need a good sb against them while other MUD decks packs big guys in the place of Welders, with a more stable manabase, like said before.

So right now I am testing a RG Aggro build with maindeck welders. Why RG? Well, a good friend of mine and a very good player (TheWhiteDragon), told me to add a color to those red variants, and the best color for defense and ofensive answers is green right now. You can add Greater Gargadon on the sb, but they only work well if combined with a smokestack to clear the board or to get rid of Oath. Otherwise I really don't know how you are going to handle an Emrakul or a Blightsteel Colossus with a 9/7.

So I decided to add green, for sb answers. What is best to get rid of Oath then Natures Claim? Only G, and you can still answer it on the first turn. Ahhhh, and it not only gets rid of oath, but also hits the Vault Key combo that most lists run. Rack, and Ruin and Shattering Spree are good cards, but I think that Ancient Grudge is better. It hits a potential target and will hit another one of your choice any time. Not to mention that I works good with Bazaars.

With this in mind, I am testing this version.

THE GOLDEN ARMY (RG Stax)

4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
4 Taiga
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Ancient Tomb
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
(22)

4 Lodestone Golem
4 Precursor Golem
3 Goblin Welder
1 Duplicant
(12)

5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus
(8)

4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Null Rod
1 Trinisphere
2 Crucible of Worlds
(18)

SB:

4 Nature's Claim
4 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Duplicant
2 Pithing Needle
(15)


Some explanations about my choices.

Bazaar and Null Rods:  Whenever a play Null Rods, I always like to add 3-4 Bazaars because the deck will have an increase of dead draws. So they not only help filter your deck and find more answers, but also works amazingly well with welders. Also, I added Null Rod due to previous builds having some troubles with a resolved Hellkite as well as an early Metalworker that can ignore the Welders. Not to mention that it is a huge card to buy tempo against control decks that rely on a lot of artifact mana, shuts Key vault, and doesnt increase the casting cost of your spells like another par of Spheres would. This card has won so many games for me, that I lost my count. Not to mention that it is a huge card on the draw after oponent playing a lot of mana artifacts. I would really like to add 4, but I have no space.

Precursor Golem: I never thought this guy could be playeble, but after seeing how fast it can end the game, i decided to add 4. Another reason of adding it, is because of welder and the fact that it isn't affected by rod. If they get destroyed you have welder to recur them back, as well as to make an army of 3/3s (Thats why the deck has this name.... A lot of Golens and a Goblin to make them alive, like in Hellboy 2). Basiccaly it reads as 5 mana 9/9. If the tokens are destroyed you lost a single card like a Lodestone (In a certain way). Beware when playing them both. Its kind of risky, even more in games 2 and 3, but 9 dmg for 5 shop mana is no joke. Another good thing that I would like to point is that this guy, can be a huge threat to a trygon deck, when combined with welder. Unlike Smokestack, it adds a clock as well as a constant source of welder targets, that if not completely destroyed can win games easily. I would like to mention that this guy is also an answer to jace as well as a huge boost of permanents in the MUD mirror. Just beware with it in g2 and g3.

Nature's Claim : Ths card is gold against MUD, Oath and even fish builds. This card is the reason I added green to the build and the reason I will build any welder build with it as an answer.

Duplicants: Since we are using Null Rods, this guy is the critter killer of choice if not the best right now. When combined with welders, they can wreck any aggro build, and has become even more stronger with Blightsteel and Steel Hellkites being played a lot. It is a good answers to oath builds, if you can reach 6 mana quick.


There are some cards i would like to add in the maindeck, and they would be the 2nd Dupe and maybe the 4th Null Rod. Maybe I cut down one bazaar, but I am still testing this idea, since i think this deck might need another answer for aggro decks in the first game. I might even try adding a fourth welder, due to its strengh. I also think that the sb against Ichorid might be weak, and require more testings.

To end this big post,I think that if you want to play Welders nowadays, you should go aggro, and definitely add green. This extra color help you so much in so many matches that are difficult for this kind of deck.

I will keep on testing this build, and if something is added, taken or discovered I will post it here. Any discussion or opinions about it, even if negative would be really apreciated.

Thanksss
 

That opening hand of Ruben Gonzalez on third game was the nuts!!!
Lotus, Crypt fetch, Jace, then ancetral!!!!
Wow this is cripling for any kind of deck!!!

Great videos!!

Congratulations on the finish!!
Also, a very good report man!!

With all those basics in the maindeck, I would be confidant too on the workshop match. Too bad you didn't saw a second land in the finals. 

Wow, really cool videos!!
Watching vintage are always entertaining!! Do you have more videos of this top 8?

I would like to ask u a question! Does Ruben Gonzalez has a Mana Drain account? How can i get in contact with him to discuss some cards of his deck?

Thanks a lot

Hey congrats for the good result!!!

Do you know if anyone is going to post the Tournament Report?? I wanted to check the mono red Shop list that you faced in the top 8!
Do you if that player has a The Mana Drain account?

Thanks

@Shax:

Good list man!!
I love MUD prison decks....Not a big fan of Aggro stuff!

I noted that your list lacks creature removal except for Smokestack. I think you should add at least 2 Steel Hellkites or 2 Dupes in it. Sometimes Smokestack will be too slow to get rid of problematic creatures, such as Trygons and Hellkites. Another thing that I noted when playing MUD lists, is that you only want to see crucibles all the time against Mirror matches, and even against those decks, drawing multiple Crucibles sucks, cause then you will lack action.

What do you think of doing this change?

- 1 Karn
- 1 Crucible
+ 2 Steel Hellkite

Steel Hellkite not only provides a good clock with evasion, but it does the control role too, by destroying moxes and oposing problems, such as welders, crucibles chalices and all kind of things!

If the new Colossus becomes the new tinker bot of choice then I would add Dupes instead of Hellkites. What do you think of it?

Hey there!!

Well, after being away for a few weeks due to university exams and a lot of other things, I have some new thoughts that I would like to hear from the other players of this deck.

The first thing that I would like to ask you, is if using Null Rod again would be valid. I began contemplating this idea due to some testings and some new decks that are appering. Let me show you wich ones.

MUD/Aggro MUD: Most of this decks are packing 3-4 Steel Hellkites maindeck, and once this guy is abble to attack, we will loose important cards, such as Welders and Crucibles. Another guy that is seeing more and more play is Metalworker, and if we don't use Null Rod, the only card we could use to get rid of this guy is Tangle Wire or 1st/2nd turn Duplicant/Trisk. Otherwise, normally they put us in a such good clock that few times we will be abble to recover. Using Null Rod against those decks, not only shut the Engineered Explosives ability of Hellkite, but also hits the ability of going nuts with Metalworker. It is also good on shutting off oposing Triskelions, that are a huge menace to Goblin Welder.   


Combo Gush decks: In my testing, I am seeing much more Combo Gush decks than GAT/Grow decks. Most of those Combo Gush decks, packs a full set of artifact mana sources ( 5 Moxen, Sol Ring, Lotus, Petal and Crypt) and some builds also use Sensei's Top and the Time Vault/ Key combo. Normally they use those artifact mana sources to gather the mana they need to Hurkyl or Rebuild in our EOT....So using Nul Rod, might buy us some time, and also stop the Vault/Key combo or the Sensei usage.


Jace/Trygon Control Decks: This archetype of decks will always use the 5 Moxens, Lotus, Crypt, Sol Ring, Sensei and he Vault/Key combo. Always. So using Null Rod, not only shuts their stupid combo, but also prevents (delays) Trygon from reaching the game, as well as Tinker.


So, if we are going to use Null Rod maindeck, we will also need to change our 6 drop of choice. My 6 drop of preference right now is Dupplicant, not only because it is unaffected by Null Rod, but because it can kill Hellkites, Wurmcoils, Big Quirion Driads and Sphinx of the Steel Wind, that is seeing more and more game play. I know that it sucks against a resolved Jace, but Duplicant when combined with an active welder and an artifact on the grave can kill any creature on vintage (Inkwell Leviathan being the exception). Even Oath will have a lot of troubles if you can assemble this "combo", and most Oath builds don't run Inkwell Leviathan as a Tinker target, being Sphinx their robot of choice.

With the addition of Null Rod, I was caught with another question. How many mana sources should I use on total? 25 or more? Right now I am testing 25 mana sources, with 4 bazaar of baghdad to help me filter dead cards shut by either chalice of the void or Null Rod, and to help me find more lands.

The other topic that I would like to hear your sugestions is about using Thorn of Amethyst instead of Sphere of Resistence in this kind of build. I know that we normally use no more than 10 creatures ( 4 Goblin Welder, 4 Lodestone and 2 Duplicant/Triskelion), but Thorn has some really good sinergies that are helping me a lot. For example, if we use Thorn, those first turns plays become available, like, Crypt, Thorn, mountain Welder, or Workshop Thorn, Ruby Welder. Also, when I was using Sphere of Resistence, I had some troubles to cast Triskelion fast enough, so I could answers a resolved Trygon, Jace or Confidant. Trisk was always costing 6+, and sometimes we don't have all those mana on the first coupe of turns, while Thorn won't affect our answer to those cards. Casting Welder was sometimes a problems if I had a resolved Golem with a Sphere on the game, and needed to cast Welder ASAP to recur a Wire or another lock piece.

For reference, here is my current list that I am testing. I am still not sure on the numbers of Null Rods maindeck. I always thought that 3 were the correct number, but right now I am uncertain.


MonoRedStax

4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Wasteland
4 Barbarian Ring
2 Mountain
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
(21)

4 Goblin Welder
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Duplicant
(10)

1 Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
(8)

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
3 Crucible of worlds
3 Smokestack
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Null Rod
1 Trini
(21)


So, what do you think about those sugestions???

Thanks

Hey Stanley,

Well, the absence of either Null Rod, Gorilla Shaman and other things are due to metagame changes. Both cards have always been really strong in Vintage, whenever we wanted to stop artifact mana sources. Null Rod was even stronger in the Tezzeret era (when Tezz decks, played maindeck Tezz, with Gifts, FoF and Thirst for Knowledge as the draw engine), since the deck had a lot of problems with a resolved Null Rod. But this kind of deck has evolved to a level, that Null Rod doesn't cripple them so much thanks to the use of Trygon Predators and to the high level of mana sources. Those decks are using 16 or 17 lands, and some builds pack 3+ baisc lands. Also, Gush decks (that are increasing in popularity, and top 8's) don't use the full pack of moxen. All those decks are tending to a more aggro strategy, using Dark Confidants for draw (very cheap to cast, and keep showing you cards with no activation cost), Lotus Cobra for mana (really dangerous against shop decks) and Trygons to get rid of problems.

Also, those kind of decks are using 2+ Jaces the Mind Scultor, wich is a really dangerous card, that needs to be adressed as soon as possible othewise you will be buried in card advantage and will never be abble to recover. Triskelion answers this card as soon as hits the board, while Duplicant doesn't, and using Triskelions with maindeck Null Rods don't seem to be right either.

With those metagame changes, I opted to use Triskelions instead of Duplicants and then cut Null rods from my build, since they are far better and proactive in a deck that doesn't use Null Rods and packs a full set of Goblin Welders. Triskelion not only kill those problems, but also offers a good clock and do broken things when combined with a Goblin Welder.

Before those changes I had a very similar build to your Null Rod Stax. This build had some great matches against Time Vault based decks. Duplicant was the nuts against the emerging Oath decks.....But Oath got hated out with all those Trygons and Nature's Claim that everybody is using.

Right now, for the current metagame, I think that handling those problems are the way to go. Both Dark Confidant and Trygons are really easy to cast on the first turns(even more if they are on the play), and both cards if not handled soon, will bring problems to the Stax player. Null Rod only delays their appearance in the board, and might delay you to find and resolve an asnwer to them. You could try the new card, Ratchet Bomb, if you wanna prevent them of getting to far  with artifact mana. The card is weldable, and not only handle artifact mana, but also other things if you have time.

One last thing....Those MUD decks have great problems with the card Ensnaring Bridge. Most of the builds can not handle the card, so if you can keep and active crucible with a barbarian ring recursion or a Goblin Welder+ Triskelion you can easily got the game. This card combined with Shattering Spree (Spree kills chalice at 1, but you need to replicate it at least once) and Viashino Heretics might be enough to defeat them.

@ Wiley:
 A BR Stax!!
That seems interesting. Could you pls share the decklist?

Thanks a lot

Heya,

Well, thanks to all the people who commented and discussed some ideas on this thread. They really helped me to see wich route I should take.


After a lot of testing, here are my current decklist:


4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Bazaar of Baghdad
4 Wasteland
4 Barbarian Ring
2 Mountain
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
(21)

4 Goblin Welder
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Triskelion
(10)

5 Moxen
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
(9)

1 Trinisphere
3 Crucible
4 Sphere of Resistence
4 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
4 Chalice of the Void
(20)


So, now let me explain the few changes that I made to it.

Steel Hellkite for Triskelion: While I was playing against Jace/Tezz, Fish and GAT, I discovered that this guy was 50/50. He was huge when I was abble to attack once and eat all their moxen, making my smokestacks, spheres and wires even more effective due to permanent decrease on the oposing side. He also provided a really good clock and had the evasion ability. But when Jace hit the board before this guy, then it became a dead card. They kept bouncing him until they found a counter or a claim to solve the problem, and keep their board intact. On those situations, I always wanted them to be Triskelions. Also, like GNU said  before, for this guy to be effective, you need an attack phase, and I found that this was really difficult to get. Mainly because, when Hellkite hit the board, the oponent always began to search for a answer such as Jace, Claim, Hurkyls and when I passed the turn, they would kill him or bounce it. In the Oath matchup, this guy was good acting as a pseudo Trygon, but making this guy hit the board before that cheap green enchantment was though. That happened very few times, and I was already winning the game. While Triskelion is not good against oath, at least it has an ability to kill the spirit token, ping the oponent and then ping himself, followed by a wasteland on the orchard, to prevent the oath to trigger. It doesn't win you the game, but at least buys time for us to find and resolve a Smokestack. So,  I decided to take out the Hellkites and try 3 Triskelions maindeck, so I could increase my defense against jace, Trygon, Welders, Confidants and other guys. I felt that the deck was abble to handle a Trygon or Jace faster then before, thanks to the ability of Triskelion to shoot other targets as soon as it hits the game. Even my winning rate was increased on the draw. Now I can say, that in this kind of deck, Triskelion is better than Hellkite, only because it doesn't require you an attack step, but because It can shoot the problems as soon as it hits the board.

On the Addition of Myr Battlesphere: At first, I tried 2 Battlesphere maindeck, to see what it could do for this kind of deck. Well, it sucked. All the times I faced a problem and had this guy in hand, I whised it to be a Trskelion, Duplicant, Hellkite or something similar. As you can see, the most problematic creatures this deck has to handle, are Welders, Trygons, Cobras and Dark Confidants. This guy doesn't do nothing to disrupt them, or at least kill those creatures. It only provides a fast clock and chump blockers, that doesn't fly, wich could help the deck fight Trygons. Also, this deck is using Sphere of Resistence, not Thorn of Amethyst, so normally this guy will cost 8+. I didn't even went to a single copy of it, because it doesn't belong in this kind of strategy. Myr Battlesphere is a huge answer for Stax decks, not a card to be played on Stax decks. As a Tinker target, it will increase their permanents, making our Wires and Smokestacks much less effective. Discarded.

4 Bazaars??????: Do you guys, remembered that I was trying this build with 3 Triskelions? Well, after reading the post on the user THE SHOP in this thread, I decided to take out one Triskelion and add the 4th Bazaar to see if it would be good.....And it was. The 4th bazaar not only helped me to filter dead cards, but also found me Triskelion, Welders, helped me to achieve threshold faster (more on this, later) to get my barbarian rings online and also increased the chances of having a Welder+ Bazaar online more often. I am still testing this late change, but for now I can tell you that it is really good. Bazaar creates a huge card filtering, a thing that conventional MUD lists lacks, and if played correctly, will enable you to keep casting threats, while other decks will draw dead.

4 Barbarian Rings/ 2 Mountains: In the begining of the tests, I felt that having a split of 3 Mountains plus 3 Barbarian rings was nice. But when I added the 2 Triskelions to the maindeck, Barbarian Ring+Triskelion, helped me to kill 4+ thoughness creatures (Goyfs), oposing welders, Cobras, Confidants, Meddling Mages, Spirit tokens followed by a wasteland on the orchard, just to name a few. Seeing all those possibilities, and with the inclusion of the 4th Bazaar, I took out the 3rd Mountain and replaced it for the 4th Barbarian Ring. It looked, and still looks the right thing to do with those changes. Also the mana base of this deck is 99% non basic, so taking out a lonely mountain and replacing it for a land that helps you to get rid of oposing problems, seems much better.

3 or 4 Crucibles?: After reading the posts of the users The Shop and Gambit, I decided to try 4 Crucibles and see what would happen. It turned out, that I had a much more stable manabase, fearing less strip effects. That helped a lot against Fish and Mirror matches. It also made the Crucible lock to happen more often, and we all know that this little combo can give us a free win against a lot of decks. The 4th Crucible also increased the power of Bazaar of Baghdad, providing me a way to find more lands and a place to dumb them. Those were the best things that the 4th Crucible provided me, and they weren't bad at all. Now comes the other side of running 4 Crucibles. Crucible is a card that doesn't affect the gamestate after the first copy hits the board. In other words, it doesn't do nothing in multiples. It is equal to Null Rod. We wanna see them as soon as possible in our opening hands, but after casting it, the other ones we draw, we wish they were other cards, since they will become dead draws. While we are playing with Bazaars to filter the dead draws this deck provides, adding more dead draws doesn't seem right. Even GNU (Daniel, the Winner of the Australian Vintage Champ, that ran a similar list, and helped me with some ideas), said that 4 Crucibles were too much for him in his report. I also, don't feel so confortable to play with only 3 Spheres, like The Shop proposed. Spheres do things in multiples, and I don't see any other card that I would like to cut to add a 4th Crucible. Now, if we could find a way to play with 4 Crucibles AND 4 Bazaars, and keep the 4 Spheres, 4 Smokestacks, 4 Challices and 4 Wires, we would have an amazing time. We would be abble to max our filter/draw engine, and have redundant spells, wich is the strengh os Stax/Mud lists.

Does Mox Opal Fits in this Deck?: I ran some tests using this card in the slot of Mana Vault. It wasn't good. Sometimes I had it generating mana on the first turn, wich was nice, and a lot of times I had in the board, wishing it was Mana Vault to help me cast a first turn Smokestack, Golem or Chalice at 2. So I tried another approach, taking out a off color Mox (Pearl), and kept Mana Vault. The same thing happened. Sometimes I was 1 mana short to cast a threat on the first couple of turns, that we all know, it is really important for stax decks. After that, I didn't test any more ideas with this card. A friend suggested to cut Ancient Tomb and add Opal in this slot, but Tomb is helping so much this deck, and rarely I am having troubles to find a red source to cast Welders or activate Barbarian rings. What do you guys think? Personally, the deck doesn't require this card.

Ratchet Bomb: The card didn't performed the way I was expecting. Smokestack is far better in this kind of deck, cause if we combine it with a Wire, we are abble to get rid of even tinker bots, as well as Oath critters. I tested it in the sb, and it also performed poorly against the matches I tought it would be good (Oath, for example).


Right now, I thing the maindeck is really solid. The only change I would make in the maindeck if someone finds a way, is to add the 4th Crucible, while keeping the number of all other lock components.

Now, I think that the next step is to tune our sideboard. I am testing some ideas, and will be posting it as soon as I had it biult.

So, any ideas about the testing results and thoughts?

Thats an amazing card to be run in a deck that packs Welders and Bazaars. I might give a shot to it, but I don't think it will work and sometimes will be a dead draw due to its casting cost. Since I am running 4 Spheres of Resistance, this guy will usually cost more than 7. Also it doesn't affect the game as soon as it hits the board, like a Sundering Titan or Triskelion, and it doesn't kill Trygons/Confidants/Welders and other pesky creatures.
By the way, I am testing Triskelions instead of Steel Hellkites, since it answers Jace/Trygon in the spot and doesn't require an attack step to kill things. Right now, the number of Triskelions I am testing is 3. Soon I will post some results as well as an updated list.

Hey

So, with the release of Scars of Mirrodin, I made some changes on my MonoRedStax, cause this new edition has some really good and promissing cards that I wanted to test in this particular build. Here is the list I am testing and below a brief discussion of the new added cards plus some ideas that I came with when updating this list.

4 Goblin Welder
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Steel Hellkite
(10)

1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
(8)

4 Sphere of Resistence
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Smokestack
4 Tangle Wire
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trinisphere
2 Ratchet Bomb
(22)

4 Mishra's Workshop
4 Wasteland
3 Barbarian Ring
3 Mountain
3 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
(20)


Well, since Scars provided so much artifacts that had an activation cost to do something really good, I am trying to cut the 3xNull Rods that I used to have in my previous builds, so I can test the new Hellkites and Ratchet Bombs and see if they deserve those slots.
I really like the new idea of this deck. Both Hellkites and Ratchet Bombs, can handle a lot of things in the current metagame.

Steel Hellkite: Can be used to do a Karn effect, of killing oposing moxen/mana sources as well as wiping away pesky creatures in the fish matchup. It blocks Trygon all day long, and can kill it as well with his Engineered Explosives ability. The only thing that makes me think about this guy is the instant effect that Dupe/Trisk have. Dupe and Trisk have an imediate effect on the aggro matchup, while this guy needs an attack phase to do something. This single turn that it provides to the opponent might give them the chance they need to destroy it or bounce it and seal the game. On the other hand, it has something that Dupe and Trisk don't have....A fast clock. Dupe if imprinted on a trygon, will be a 2/3 vanilla, while Trisk will be a 1/1 (if used to shoot Trygon) with no evasion. One last thing about this guy...It kills other permanents, and not only creatures. Those last two points made me use him.

Ratchet Bomb: The new Powder Keg. Well it is better then Powder keg because now it hits enchantments and it is an answer for the Oath matchup. When I took out the Null Rods I had to find a card that could do something similar to rod (wrecking mana sources). This card came in the right time. The 2 Ratchet Bombs, plus 2 Hellkites and 4 Smokestacks might be enough to answer a lot of things this deck might need to answer. And another good part of Ratchet Bomb is that it can be welded back and used again. Needless to say, that this card also increases the power of Tangle Wires and Smokestacks by helping you to control the number of permanents of your oponent.

I am contemplating the idea of maybe cutting one Smokestack for another Ratchet Bomb, since it is easier to cast and can destroy almost the same things we are aiming to destroy with smokestack. The only thing this card cannot destroy, are lands. Everything else it is capable of killing.

I tested another great card from Scars of Mirrodin, the Wurmcoil Engine. While this card is amazing with an active welder on the board, it doesn't do so many things against combo decks (Tendrils and GushTendrils variants) and it doesn't solve the Trygon problem that every Stax/MUD list now have to handle. It is only good against Aggro MUD, Fish and it can kill Inkwell Leviathan. Since this version of Stax tends to play a more control game, Hellkite have far more uses than this guy in this kind of build. I think he is best suited in the maindeck of an Aggro MUD/Stax variant, since it has a great clock and amazing abilities.

While this deck packs less lock pieces than MUD decks, Goblin Welder and Bazaar of Baghdad, offers some nice recurring and drawing/filtering resorces that those MUD decks lacks. While Welder recurs destroyed or discarded lock pieces, Bazaar lets you find them or filter them as future Welder targets, compensating this lack of lock pieces.

So, any ideas/sugestions regarding those new cards that Scars of Mirrodin provided? Is Null Rod still good with the release of those new artifacts and this new metagame of Gush and MUD decks on the rise.

I would appreciate some discussion.

Leonardo

Hey

I am really glad to see that some people are working on a new version of Slaver deck. Here is the list I am testing:


Slaver 2k10

4 Goblin Welder
2 Gorilla Shaman
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Triskelion
(8)

1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
3 Frantic Search
1 Thirst for Knowledge
(18)

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Tinker
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
(5)

1 Jace the Mindsculptor
(1)

1 Black Lotus
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sensei's Top
1 Mindslaver
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
1 Crucible of Worlds
(13)

4 Scalding Tarn
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Islands
1 Strip Mine
(15)

Total: 60

It may need some changes, but this version is giving me some nice results. Here is a few explanations about some cards:

Triskelion: Why not Sundering Titan? Well, Vintage is becoming a more aggro format then before. Lotus Cobras, Dark Confidants, Welders, Noble Hierarchs, Trygons, Lodestones just to name a few guys. Triskelion handles all those guys and JACE too, that is seeing even more play. Combined with goblin Welder, this guy can do amazing things.

Gorilla Shaman: What we can say about this pesky guy. I simply love it. It kills a lot of hate that people will bring against Slaver, wrecks mana sources and against MUD/Stax, when combined with Welder (Kill a mox, then weld out a problem for the mox, and kill the mox again), well, many things are possible.

Myr Battlesphere: Thousand times better then Pentavus and Triskelavus. Go nuts with a Tolarian academy on the board, its a amazing beatstick, works good against stax and fish (Even better with Welder). The primary Bot choice for this deck.

Gifts Ungiven: Back in the day, people played Fact or Fiction in this slot. Since this new version uses Time Vault/Key, an EOT gifts for all the combo pieces with an active welder on the board is gg. In this version Gifts is far better for a lot of things, but I added him mainly because Vault/Key. Amazing card.

Crucible of Worlds: Well, to be honest I am on the fence about this card. It helps a lot the match against stax, helps you get more lands with 3 frantic Searches and can do the Strip Mine/Crucible lock. I am still working on it, to see if it deserves this slot.


About the absence of Spell Pierce and more Jaces: Well, I couldn't find a place for those cards. I think that 2 Jaces would be a good idea, maybe cutting the crucible for it. That is the only card I can see myself cutting to add him. The Spell Pierces weren't missed, since this deck does plenty of broken things (forcing the oponen to use their counters) and works on the mid/late game, where Pierce is normally a dead card. That is why I opted to keep the best hard counters in the deck.

So, any ideas/sugestions???

I am testing both cards in my MUD list and here are the results.

-Steel Hellkite

The card is the nuts. Every game that I was abble to play it, I won. Against the mirror it simply kills everything and give you a free win. Its amazing to kill oposing crucibles, wires and even smokestacks and golens if you have the mana. I tested it against fish too, and it was the same as the mirror. Whenever I could resolve it, I had the win. Far better then duplicant! I was abble to test it too against oath, and in one game, i resolved it before oath, wich game me an incredible advantage. It is amazing even against some combo decks, wiping away their moxen, key, vault and also bobs and dryads.  I will def keep it as a 4 off

- Ratchet Bomb

I am testing 4 bombs in the side, along with 2 dupes for the oath matchup. But yesterday, while I was testing, i didn't face any oath deck. I think it will be useful against ichorid, getting rid of zombies and this kind of stuff. It was useful against a Gro deck, that I used it to wipe their moxen and kill a dryad. I will test it more, since it seems so nice to me and I think it has a great potential.

Your build seems quite solid. This new Hellkite, is amazingly powerful and I think we will see it in a lot of MUDs builds!!

Regarding the Null Rod issue, I want to ask you something. Did you try to use Null Rods instead of Karns?

I am asking you this, cause I think that since Hellkite has a great body and the ability to fly, even with a Null Rod on the board, it is still a threat.

Did you try this idea?