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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Suicide Necro Deck
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on: June 06, 2009, 07:30:57 pm
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Im back to the mono black deck. The main problem obviously will be contending with Stax' lock pieces. Pretty much the entire side board can be brought in to fight this (only the most relevant ones would be though). The same can be said for fighting an Ichorid Deck. I simply do no not have Negators - they would be in the Hyppies slot if I did. I edited the list - changes are in bold.
2 Withered Wretch 4 Hyppies 4 Nantuko Shade 4 Dark Confidant 4 Diabolic Edict 4 Thoughtseize 4 Null Rod 4 Duress 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Demonic Consultation 1 Yawgmoth's Will 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Tendrils of Agony
4 Dark Ritual
3 Mutavaults 2 Ghost Quarter 1 Mox Jet 1 Black Lotus 14 Swamp 5 Strips
SB 3x Extirpate - combo and Ichorid, oath 3x Crucible of Worlds - Stax 3x Darkblast - Welder 3x Tormod's Crypt - Ichorid 3x Pithing Needle - Ichorid, bazaar
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4
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: A Can of Merfolk @$$-Whupery
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on: May 28, 2009, 11:32:07 pm
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Im liking the mono-blue merfolk list. I really the sideboarding techniques discussed, not something seen alot in these threads, Im a budget player. I wanted to post my own list for a critique but didnt want to add another post as this one is relevant - - Lord Shaper, I dont mean to hijack your thread. Personally, Im not a fan of Standstill.
Creatures: 4 Cursecatcher 4 Cold-Eyed Selkie - this may go down to 3 as I dont like having 8 3cc critters... 4 Lord of Atlantis 4 Merrow Reejerey 3 Silvergill Adept 3 Voidmage Prodigy - instead of standstill, there's 10 wizards in the deck
Spells: 4 Daze - i went with 4 as I may need to tap out on turn 2... 2 Echoing Truth 4 Force of Will 4 Null Rod 3 Stifle
Lands: 16 Island 1 Strip Mine 4 Wasteland
The sideboard: 3 Hurkyl's Recall - inkwell and stax 3 Extract - tinker, yawg will 3 Spell Snare - goyf, oath 2 Curfew - oath and tinker critters 2 Tormod's Crypt 2 Relic of Progenitus
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5
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Vintage Community Discussion / Casual Forum / Mana'd Ichorid with out Bazaar of Baghdad
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on: May 28, 2009, 09:41:34 pm
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The good news is this deck can be built for less than 150 bucks AND you wont need to proxy anything.
Im just trying to explore options for TYPE 1 without taking a second mortgage or proxying up a deck.
Draw and Outlet sources OTHER THAN Bazaar 4 Careful Study - draw and outlet 4 Breakthrough - draw and outlet 4 Putrid Imp - outlet 2 Cephalid Sage - draw and outlet 4 Cephalid Coliseum - draw and outlet 4 Cabal Therapy - outlet and disruption
Dredge sources 4 Stinkweed Imp 4 Golgari Grave-Troll 4 Golgari Thug 2 Darkblast
4 Ichorid 1 Flame Kin Zealot 1 Angel of Despair
4 Bridge from Below 2 Dread Return
4 Gemstone Mine 4 Underground River 4 City of Brass
Blue and black mana are needed for Putrid Imp, Breakthrough and Careful Study turn one - Im essentially using these 12 cards to replace Bazaar of Baghdad. I didnt include Narcomeoba in order to make room for Putrid Imp in order to get to threshold to activate Coliseum and Sage
SB 4 Faerie Macabre - mirror match 4 Pithing Needle - Tormod's Crypt, Bazaar's, Children of Korlis, Qasali, Javelineers, Lavamancer, Welders 3 Ray of Revelation - Leyline of the Void 4 Chain of Vapor - Teeg, Jotun Grunt
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6
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Mono Black Suicide Ad Nauseum
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on: May 25, 2009, 11:33:50 pm
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Stax will be my nemesis but the disruption package should make it a fight. I went Mono black primarily because I dont have the power blue spells or dual lands AND to add Wastelands to fight the Ichorid match up. This also supports the 4 Sinkholes to help fight control.
Win 4 Tendrils of Agony - I went with four as I may need to cast more than one and to Consult for it reliably
Got to find it 4 Ad Nauseum 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Yawgmoths Will - in this deck this card is INCREDIBLE. 1 Necropotence 1 Demonic Consultation
Disruption Package - styled after your typical Suicide deck 4 Hymn to Tourach 4 Thoughtsieze 4 Duress 4 Sink Hole
Mana 4 Cabal Ritual 4 Dark Ritual 1 Mana Vault 1 Sol Ring 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mana Crypt 1 Mox Jet 1 Black Lotus 5 Strips 12 Swamp
SB 4 Yixlid Jailer - Ichorid 4 Slaughter Pact - Welder, Teeg and Canonist 4 Tormod’s Crypt - Ichorid 3 Pithing Needle - general purpose, bazaar's, welder's Theres alot of dead cards MD against Ichorid, hence so many in the SB
I considered adding memory jar, without Pact's of Negation, Im hesitant refilling my opponent's hand. Yawgmoth's Bargain could be added, Id drop a sinkhole. Im not running 7 SolMoxen though and 6cc I think is one too many.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: WGB aggro
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on: May 22, 2009, 11:58:42 am
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Rancor and Kataki or more seals - combined with the additional ghost quarters to fight Stax - I do like Damping Matrix in addition to NR as a 3-of.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: WGB aggro
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on: May 22, 2009, 01:00:41 am
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no but it stops it from untapping the bazaar when he comes out of the graveyard which is what i want to be doing
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: WGB aggro
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on: May 21, 2009, 08:51:35 pm
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hmmm
I like Ghost quarter - metioned it a few posts back - what about Damping Matrix - this hits Welder/Trike Tricks - does it mess with Dredge? I know it hits the Trolls regen ability and Face Sticher
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: WGB aggro
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on: May 20, 2009, 10:36:14 pm
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Guli - great list! youve solved the mana problem and left 4 open slots. Kataki might be the answer as you can sack Sculler to remove a Bridge.
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12
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: WGB aggro
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on: May 19, 2009, 08:25:09 pm
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Thanks for the feedback - I do like your Duress effects. But.... the weakness to my version was committing to Black too much - it stresses my mana base too thin. Ive found decks are Tier one capable of the OOPs I win play or.... they dominate the opponents mana base - constricting them like a python and applying pressure with bears. I do not want to compete against a 4 FOW's 4 Manadrains and 4 Duress effects using the same ammunition - this deck wont win that fight. Youre right in identifying Thorn as the weak link - I chose it because its colorless, alleviating stress to an already stretched and vulnerable manabase. Cards Im looking at for the Thorn slot are:
4 Children of Korlis - helps against Ichorid and Tendrils based decks 4 Rancor - speeds the deck up alot stealing turns for them to react to my permanents 4 ESG - same as Rancor allows multiple threats to come down quicker 4 Ethersworn Canonist - silver bullet against Storm Decks and beats 3 Kataki and 1 Trinisphere - stresses their manabase further
Simply dropping one Thorn for Trinishpere is an option as well - would be nice to have one active restricted card in the deck lol.
Im liking ESG Rancor and the Kataki options the best as they offer the broadest coverage against the most decks. Thorns are dead against Stax.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: WGB aggro
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on: May 18, 2009, 08:08:23 pm
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hmmm interesting - in a pinch i could use zero mana to send a him to the GY to remove a bridge against Ichorid. Plain craziness would be to send all my bears to the GY followed by Balance when theres an Inkwell or some other nastiness across the board.
Stax could be an issue with this deck - i need to test it. Ive been swapping 4x Thorns for 2x Kataki and 2x STPs.
If I were to add Mirror Entity though - Id go back to the Knight of the Reliquary option instead - he gets strips and wastes and generally helps with beats and mana
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: WGB aggro
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on: May 18, 2009, 10:23:17 am
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Im leery about putting ESG into a 3 color deck - my list has the same amount of acceleration as Steve's GW Beatdown deck. I added the Hierearch as a way to smooth the mana base as it is this deck's weakest link. If I can play a 2-drop turn one, I do. Otherwise Hierarch comes down turn 2. She can slow you down you dont play her right.
I do like the Thorns as well - they really serve to support the mana denial strategy, and is also one of the broadest hate cards available. I looked at Rootmaze and Children of Korlis as well - I liked thorns colorlessness. The downside is - more blue decks are packing Hurkl's recall to deal with Inkwell nowadays. I may go back to Children of Korlis, Rootmaze was too difficult, I need to run the search lands.
Id like to add Shusher but the double G puts a lot of stress on a weak mana base. I would cut 2 cards and replace for Selkie though - I like drawing more cards than protecting the ones I do draw. 2 cards is easy enough and reinforces a them already iin the deck.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: WGB aggro
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on: May 17, 2009, 02:11:26 pm
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Chalice for 2 hurts - main reason for Krosan in the board actually. Shusher will be heavily considered - the thing is, I put Thorn in the MD in his place. Id consider dropping Confidant for Shusher....
In the control/combo match, I will not be the beatdown deck. This will have to come out in testing but I think Shusher is for the beatdown role as he actively makes my lock pieces come down whereas Thorn reinforcing the control deck role by disrupting their deck. Slots in the deck up for replacing are Goyf and Confidant. I know this will not sit well - but I really like going Qasali turn one, Hierarch turn 2, attach Rancor on Qasali > attack for 6 turn 2 (or for 5 with some other 2-drop in place of Qasali). Goyf just doesnt get that big that fast on turn 2. Love Confidant but may replace with Shusher - as a control player which of there two creature would you rather NOT see...? Not to mention, this change up would relieve the mana base somewhat. Edict and Yixlid are necessary.
Thorn helps out against combo and mana-less Ichorid (fights their hate cards).
A noobe question though - Does Thorn push 3cc spells up to 4cc as far as Teeg is concerned? I dont think it does....
Out of the cards in the Main Deck - which 4-of do you think is the weakest?
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: WGB aggro
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on: May 17, 2009, 12:55:52 pm
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OK - heres a revised list based on your suggestions. I didnt go with ESG as I have 5 pieces of artifact acceleration and kept the Hierarchs. Id like to add a couple of Ohran Vipers - what to cut? One thorn and one Teeg?
4 Thorns 4 Null Rod 4 Diabolic Edict 4 Qasali Pridmage 4 Gaddock Teeg 4 Tarmogoyf 4 Dark Confidant 4 Aven Mindcensor 4 Noble Hierarch
5 Strips 5 Jet, Pearl, Jet Petal, Lotus 4 Savannah 2 Forest 4 Windswept Heath 2 Bayou 2 Scrubland
SB 4 Yixlid Jailer 4 Krosan Grip 2 Duress 2 THoughtseize 3 Swords to Plowshares
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: WGB aggro
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on: May 17, 2009, 11:48:24 am
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roger that. upping the count to four pushes my 3cc cards over six. do you think its worth running 2 knights?
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: WGB aggro
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on: May 16, 2009, 11:54:51 pm
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Im sorry for dredging this topic back up but with the addition of Qasali I wanted to explore this more:
3 Wasteland 1 Strip mine 4 Windswept heath 4 Savannah 2 Scrubland 2 Bayou 2 Forest 5 Petal/Lotus/Pearl/Jet/Emerald
4 Null Rod 2 Thorn of Amethyst - These work well on their own but even better with a recurring strip mine, Aven, Knight, Null Rod 2 Life from the Loam - I like the synergy between Thorn, Null Rod, Knight, Aven 1 Demonic Tutor - targets stripmine almost always or edict 4 Diabolic Edict - Tinker/Oath insurance
3 Rancor - with 8 Exalted critters its not rare to be attacking for 5 or more turn 2. Could be Goyf but I like the explosiveness 3 Aven Mindcensor - Tinker insurance - works well to combat search lands, evades with rancored, exalted strength 3 Gaddock Teeg - solid 2-drop 3 Knight of the Reliquary - gives the deck a solid beat stick mid and late game, helps lock them out 4 Dark Confidant - solid 2-drop 4 Qasali Pridemage - solid 2-drop 4 Noble Hierarch - yeah I cant take advantage of the blue, but I like exalted too much not to include, critical to the deck.
Noteably - if I can play a 2-drop turn one - I do not play Hierarch till the second turn (hopefully dropping wasteland or stripmine turn 2 as well). Forests are key to playing Hierarch early and being able to cast LotL or K Grip from the SB. She's a key play to this deck. This deck focuses on mana denial primarily, supporting this with key SB cards against the major arch types.
SB 4 Krosan Grip - Oath 4 Yixlid Jailer - Ichorid 2 Duress - Combo/Tezz 2 Thoughtseize - Combo/Aggro decks/Tezz 3 Swords to Plowshares - Aggro/DSC/Goyf
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Vintage White Weenie
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on: May 15, 2009, 12:15:33 am
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I like your list but Id have to go with Null Rod and Id want to include Suppression Field as well.
4x Null Rod - simply not confident running Vials in this place 4x Suppression Field - Bazaar, Fetch Lands 4x Swords to Plowshares 4x Aura of Silence 4x Children of Korlis 4x Aven Mindcensor 4x True Believer 4x Samurai of the Pale Curtain 3x Kataki, War's Wage 3x Jotun Grunt
13x Plains 5x Strips 1x Mox Pearl 1x Lotus Petal 1x Chrome Mox 1x Black Lotus
SB 2x Tormod's Crypr - Ichorid 2x Relic of Progenitus - Ichorid 4x Thorn of Amethyst - comes in against Combo and Ichorid 4x Tariff (Abu Ja'far If I was running Vial) - comes down quickly against Trolls and hits against Inkwell 3x Serenity - Can kill inkwell
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Suicide Necro Deck
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on: May 10, 2009, 04:02:11 am
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To replicate the effect of 4 Necro - I included 4 Dark Confidants and 2 Cutthroats. The Negators could be Nantuko Shades in an Aggro field. There's 20 cards in the MD that generate direct card advantage. Id like to find a way to splash green for Goyf and Seal of Primordium without diluting the black mana base.
2 Cutthroat 4 Hyppies 4 Nantuko Shade 4 Dark Confidant 4 Diabolic Edict 3 Tendrils of Agony 4 Thoughtseize 4 Null Rod 3 Duress 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Yawgmoths Will 1 Necropotence 1 Demonic Consultation 4 Dark Ritual 1 Mox Jet 1 Black Lotus 14 Swamp 4 Strips
SB 3x Extirpate - combo and Ichorid, oath 4x Smother 4x Yixlid Jailer - Ichorid 4x Pithing Needle - Ichorid, Welder
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: GWb Aggro control: The answer to mana drain?
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on: May 09, 2009, 01:41:29 am
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Nice list! How critical is the red mana? Would you consider forfeiting the Hide part of Hide and Seek for another basic Plains and 2 Swamps (mox ruby) to help stabilize than mana base (or up the Bayou to 4)? I really like your creature base - theyre all bombs. Maybe drop Hide and Seek all together and add 3 Duress and the fourth Aven? I like this deck its just the mana base...
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: GWb Aggro control: The answer to mana drain?
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on: May 08, 2009, 08:57:50 pm
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Ive really enjoyed following this thread. The concern I have with B W and G is the unstable manabase.
Im almost tempted to switch to Black and Green. The question then becomes how do I replace effects like Aven Mindcensor, Pridemage, STP and TEEG.
I think Duress and Thoughtseize can fill the Mindcensor slot. Edict replaces STP. Pernicous Deed as a 3-of will help. TEEG is irreplaceable - so how can I mitigate what he brings to a GW deck....Hyppie - when all else fails - random discard!
4x Wasteland/Strip Mine 3x Emerald/Jet/Black Lotus 4x Dark Ritual 4x Windswept Heath 2x Forest 7x Swamp 4x Bayou
4x Hypnotic Specter 3x Pernicious Deed - kills zombie tokens dead 4x 'Goyf 4x Yixlid Jailer 2x Withered Wretch 4x Dark Confidant 3x Diabolic Edict 4x Null Rod 4x Duress
SB
2x Tormord's Crypt - they'll side in enchantment hate thinking Leylines. 2x Relic of Progenitus 4x Krosan Grip 3x Choke 3x Smother or Jitte 1x Diabolic Edict
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Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays: Vintage On a Budget -- GW Beatdown!
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on: May 07, 2009, 09:18:26 pm
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You bring to light the crux of this deck - no draw engine, 28 mana sources and its relevance for needing Shusher. I wonder though, there are a few 2-of's in the deck. Canonist, Kataki, Seals, Choke. I understand the significance of Choke but I dislike MD'ing specific hate like Pyroblast, Choke etc.
What do you think of 4 Mother of Runes to protect Aven, Teeg, Goyf, Shusher and Pridemage in lieu of 4 of the above cards? I would still retain the focus of playing a threat or answer turn one rather than MOM. If so, which of the 4 cards are must includes? Im assuming Kataki. Also, I think some concession to Ichorid must be acknowledged in the SB.
3 Children of Korlis - anti combo and can be boarded against Ichorid to remove Bridges 2 Tormod's Crypt 1 Relic of Progenitus 2 Pithing Needle - Bazaar, Welder, Trike 3 Krosan Grip - cant be countered, stops activations from Trike 4 Tariff
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Eternal Formats / Eternal Article Discussion / Re: [Premium Article] So Many Insane Plays: Vintage On a Budget -- GW Beatdown!
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on: May 06, 2009, 08:49:27 am
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What about including 2 or 3 Ghost Quarters? Similar to Oath - targeting the source, Oath of Druids or Bazaar of Baghdad in this case - may be the best strategy. Likewise - Ichorid doesnt run any basic land so its like having Strip Mines 2, 3 and 4 in addition to 4 Wastelands. They cant be Chaliced, Masked, Charmed, Cabaled, or Vapored. Supported with Jotun Grunt to fight the dredgers and even casting a second Legendary creature to force critters to the GY to remove bridges are options in support of the strip effects. Throw in 3 Needles and Id be confident going against Ichorid.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Vintage White Weenie
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on: May 06, 2009, 08:22:41 am
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Kooaznboi - I appreciate your analysis. Thanks!
Do you think Samurai and Jotun both MD are counter productive? I like Children MD. I agree about the Enlightened Tutor. I MD'd Balance to counter hordes of Zombies following a Korlis fog. I like having a random reset button but understand your point as well.
Also - I know its splashing another color but Im willing to splash Green for Teeg and Pridemage - both are still technically white creatures and it allows for Ray of Revelation in the SB. If I kept the Vials and splashed green Id have to include Archers.
This is my revised list Im testing currently.
4 Null Rod - I think this is the stronger play in the current New England Meta game. 2 Seal of Cleansing 1 Seal of Primordium 4 Qasali Pridemage 4 Gaddock Teeg 4 Aven Mindcensor 2 Ethersworn Canonist 4 Children of Korlis 3 Jotun Grunt 2 Kataki, War's Wage 3 Tariff - MD because Oath and Tinker give this deck fits
4 Wasteland 1 Strip 4 Savannah 4 Windswpet Heath 3 Elvish Spirit Guides 1 Black Lotus 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Emerald 4 Plains 3 Forest
SB 1 Kataki - Stax, Combo 1 Jotun Grunt - Ichorid 2 Serenity - Staxs and Inkwell 1 Ray of Revelation - Oath 4 Swords to Plowshares - Welder, Bob, Goyf 3 Pithing Needle - Ichorid 1 Relic of Progenitus - Ichorid 2 Tormod's Crypt - Ichorid
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: Mono Green Fish
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on: May 01, 2009, 08:55:58 pm
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Im using the Archers to fight Inkwell and the 4 Deglamer to fight DSC. I have Zealots MD. Im not using fetches as they clash with Rootmaze. I will include Hierarch and Vexing Shusher though. I like the Choke idea thank you. I didnt go with Viper because of the 3cc and I benefit more from pumping up the Selkie. The only vanilla critter Id consider is Goyf, Elite just dont do enough.
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