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Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: "The Unbroken" U/R Landstill: The Primer
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on: December 20, 2011, 04:44:38 pm
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I will admit mine is quite different. Merfolk never actually nets you cards tho Sindbad does. Especially with Jace. With Jace he simply becomes a LOA.
Maybe start a new topic in the correct forum with your list and post a link to it here? I don't want people to say this toppic got highjacked becaurse you brought your list up  But I would like to see it too!  |
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Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: "The Unbroken" U/R Landstill: The Primer
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on: December 09, 2011, 08:41:32 pm
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Have you ever tested Goblin Welder in the deck?
Let's say to give you the option to use black lotus-moxen after null rod is in play? And if you would ad welder what other artifacts with activated abilities would you consider running?
I do agree it is very meta dependend and can see it fit more if it would help you disrupt the opponents board. But still I wanted to hear your thoughts...
Worst it does is beat the opp for 1...
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: U/r Control Slaver, Designing for my Meta
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on: November 06, 2007, 06:18:19 pm
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it's hard for me to say what fits best, especially considering that I haven't played in a vintage tournament in a year and a half.
Play the deck you pilot best. If you can't test a deck to the limit of your cunning always play the deck you feel comfortable with. I do want to add that my team has been working on a blood moon CS version and we took it off the drawing board. People can play around blood moon, and they do, specially the best of the pilots out there... But it (or your magus) will give you an edge against certain decks if you can drop it. Good luck ! |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck Discussion] 4-Gush GroATog
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on: June 18, 2007, 05:46:39 pm
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I think if you can make room for 3 Yixlid Jailer you're better off with cutting another street wraight and play 4 MD Leyline of the Void.
It helps slow down any deck that uses the grave, and in vintage, what deck doesn't use it's grave ??
Hmm I guess you have a good point there. Leyline does seem better than Jailer because it hoses both Ichorid and Flash. I'm not sure if cutting Street Wraith is the right answer, but maindeck Leyline does seem more juicy. Aside from Leyline, what are some other cards that are often sided in against both Ichorid and Flash? Crypt, Needle... I don't think gat can afford to play 4 uncastable cards in the main deck. that makes leyline a pretty bad choice for the deck. I don't think GAT can afford to play MD leyline either, but since Alvin made room for 3 Yixlid Jailers, imho he would be better of running leyline. I doubt it would make a big dif overall, but it could buy him some time now and again to win his game... or even make him win a game he's got no business winning |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck Discussion] 4-Gush GroATog
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on: June 17, 2007, 02:07:24 pm
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I think if you can make room for 3 Yixlid Jailer you're better off with cutting another street wraight and play 4 MD Leyline of the Void.
It helps slow down any deck that uses the grave, and in vintage, what deck doesn't use it's grave ??
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck Discussion] 4-Gush GroATog
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on: June 08, 2007, 04:19:01 am
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Other problem with Fling is it can (& Will) get misdirected. Flinging a 30/16 Tog at someone may sound like fun, but you better have a bunch of control backup or else they will go nuts vs. you, sending your own fling back at you tfor the win.
I know what you're talking about but I wouldn't pump my Tog up to 30... More like 10 or 11, swing and finish of with the fling... If it gets redirected, that would be tough, since I would get hurt and lose my creature, but in my opinion you wouldn't play fling unless you're in a situation where you have to win now. And then I feel it's worth a shot. |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Deck Discussion] 4-Gush GroATog
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on: June 07, 2007, 09:06:37 am
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Is 1 volcanic really enough to support the SB? Will have to test this.. Did you came to test the amount of Volcanic's yet? If yes, what where your findings? The reason I ask this is simple: I'm a big fan of FLING in GAT, most of you will say it's a win-more card that's sitting dead in your hand at the wrong time and therefore not done; but one could say the same about berserk... IMHO Fling makes winning easier to do, you don't have to build up a big massive creature and swing with it every time, you can grow your creature, swing (maybe even berserk) and then fling for the kill. It just steals games when the opp. thinks he's got one more turn. It does need red mana, but if you consider running red for sideboard options, you might aswell include Fling MD! What do you guys think ? Is Fling an option; why would you (not) run it? Bob Out |
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Oath
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on: April 02, 2007, 11:26:01 am
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How do you like this sideboard card? This probably doesn't belong in Oath, but I'd like to talk about it any way.
Volcanic Spray
1R
Sorcery
Volcanic Spray deals 1 damage to each creature without flying and each player.
Flashback 1R (You may play this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then remove it from the game.)
It's good, if your meta runs Empty the Warrens I'd include this card in oath in a Sideboard slot. |
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Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: How did you get into Magic?
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on: March 23, 2007, 06:26:45 am
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I was walking in a toy-store and saw what looked like an awsome game (I liked the picture on the box). It was a starter set of MAGIC the Gathering.
One of my friends (Eddie on TMD) saw my cards and said he used to play magic, he picked up the game again after that, and dragged me along into VINTAGE format.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: [Deck] Oath
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on: March 09, 2007, 07:58:31 am
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@nehptis:
I'd go for the factory's. Let me explain why: In my experience palying oath an early wasteland is used for mana, a late Waste is oft to late. An early factory is used for mana, a late factory can beat you to an alternate win. Also, with Factory on the table, you keep opp from beating you with small sticks (welders) and you have a win on the table. With factory on the table you can play the beatdown and keep your opp. busy with fake attempts to put oath on the table (you don't really need to oath if you can beat with factory so keep your counters for his essential stuff)
At least that's how our team looks at the whole waste vs factory issue.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Re: oath deck
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on: March 09, 2007, 07:30:32 am
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My team is currently playing mishra's factory's in the slots of 2 wasteland. It stops Welderbeats and gives you blockers for the stormgoblins... Did you actually test this deck, and if yes in what meta? What are your matchups? It looks like this Oath-deck could do well, but looking good is not the only thing a deck should do...  |
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Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: REPORT: 3rd @ waterbury day 2 with Bob-bomberman
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on: February 25, 2007, 10:51:46 am
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First: Congrats!! And Nice report !! I know the original reason we had Daze in that slot because it was disruption in the form of a blue card. While Duress is a stronger card than Daze the fear of having a blue count that was low was the primary reason Daze was in the deck. If your looking for a replacement to Daze I would suggest Meddling Mage because it will improve your combo matchup while still keeping the blue count at a strong 19. We've tested Stifle and Trickbind in that slot but they were very unexciting because you need to be tapping out for guys in the early turns. This makes Trickbind a non-option and Stifle situational.
I have a friend that runs manaleak over daze, but I'm def. gonna tell him to try out the mage. I think a beatstick that slows the opp. is way better than just a (weak) counter. To bad there are no tournaments like yours here back in Europe (or maybe there are, but we're not used to travel such distance to go and play. And even if I wanted to attend, there's still that 2nd part of me (I'm married) that goes: Hell no!! you're not going there just to play that (stupid) cardgame!!!) |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Black Stax (OR the viability of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth)
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on: February 21, 2007, 03:30:58 pm
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I would opt for Bazaar over Chains of Mephistopheles. This lets you play 4 Urborgs and multiple Nether Voids. And last I checked Chains wasn't that great against tutors(what most of the format is using).
@Whitewolf- How has BlackStax compared to Mono Red or even MUD Stax for that matter? I still think Goblin Welder > Dark Confidant any day of the week in a Stax deck. But, if you are running Black, I can see no reason at all to cut Vamp Tutor, you could even add Imperial Seal. 4 Crucibles + 4 Stripmine(after 3 tutors)= good.
@All- To me it just seems that BlackStax has little way of coming back if the opponent has a busted first turn. Or at least 'little' compared with not being able to utilize Goblin Welder to manipulate the board. Not to mention that Welder grants you immunity to Tinker-> Colossus and gets past counterspells. Plus he makes good ashtrays. Sorry, but I just think Red makes a better Stax deck.
One last thing: This is a different version of Stax I know, but has it tested better or even 'as good as' Uba or 5c Stax? Not trying to squash anyones deck either. What do you guys say?
I think you will find someone saying he believes the red-stax version is the best atm in an earlier post and I agree (for the same reasons you put up). But I still like the Idea to test other versions, maybe we stumble upon something uber-broken, who knows? |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Black Stax (OR the viability of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth)
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on: February 21, 2007, 03:23:13 pm
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I think you hit the nail on the head here. The locks are very strong when resolved (Braids and Void I mean). That's why my testing against non-counter decks goes alot better Wink. And that's why I thought about Defense Grid. At least sideboard, maybe even main. What do you think? I agree with an earlier post that stated I would rather add more lockpieces than look for a way to stop the counters coming... @ Yespuhyren talking to ENZO: I'm glad you pointed it out, I was about to hit the reply button, but reading these forums often enough learned me not to skip posts before hitting that reply button. Chains and bazaars are not a good mix !! @ Arsenal_Fan: don't include fetches, in my oppinion they will find nothing... Since there is no swamp in the deck and I don't think Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth's effect goes for the lands in your library (or elsewhere but in play for that matter)... I could be wrong there, but I would give a fierce fight to prove I'm not... EDIT: At the moment I'm testing my last deck with minor changes to see what version is best, I could go back to where I came form though... - Yawgmoth's Will - 2 Braid's +3 Night's Whisper |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Black Stax (OR the viability of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth)
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on: February 19, 2007, 03:34:27 pm
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Mishra's Factory pretty much becomes your kill condition after a resolved Nether Void.
This is the reason to include the factory, I find Confidants don't kick fast enough. You do have a point on yawgmoth's will though... I'm curious what testing will show you when using tombs instead of workshops. Do post back with more info after testing if you will... @ Spacebalzz: I agree with you on one thing: This deck is very weak when key components get countered, and in vintage, Blue is a house... |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Black Stax (OR the viability of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth)
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on: February 18, 2007, 06:16:41 am
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I just want to make sure people realize I don't even care about the creature half of God's Eye 99% of the time. The whole point is to ramp smokey to 2.
I realize that, and that's exactly what I've been using God's Eye for. Can't remember a game where I actually attacked with a creature from god's eye... Just sac the land and then the creature. |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Black Stax (OR the viability of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth)
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on: February 16, 2007, 03:17:58 pm
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I agree Wretch seems nice utility / beater but sideboarded Leylines seem much more powerful. I guess you're going to cut it? Yes, I'm cutting it I'll post my current play list further down... On Bazaar: it mostly goes like this. The first turns are spent dropping locks like Chalice, Rod, CoW, ... then on turn 3-4 I have some excess land(s) and/or lock(s) in my hand and I Bazaar. You keep one useful card (to play) AND replay a discarded land via CoW. Together with Confidant it turns in a great engine. There you say it: "toghether with confidant" I think there's where I find bazaar to be a bit of a problem. If you can't fill your hand enough, you don't get to keep the stuff it draws for you making bazaar nothing more then a swamp if you're lucky enough to have an urborg tomb out. I'm not cutting it though, because I don't find another card usefull enough to replace it. I mean the pain if you see a bazaar with dark confident is zero, the pain for a replacement isn't worth it for me yet. I also have problems with going over bazaar like: "The cards I'm holding are not good enough, lets activate bazaar to replace them with stuff I can use." If the cards you're holding aren't good enough, why did you put them in the deck? That's what troubles me at times. I don't want to get rid of certain cards in my hand (they're to good) and sometimes Bazaar forces me into choosing to do it anyway. I'm not comfertable with that. I'm not ready to say I "like" this deck. Well I do of course but not enough to pilot it at a tournament just yet. Now if you'll excuse me, I do like the deck enough to put it up for some more testing... (I think about 10 games against Oath (no sb'ing)) EDIT: forgot to put up the list. The List I'm currently testing. 4 Mishra's Factory 1 Wasteland 1 Strip Mine 1 Tomb of Urami 1 Tolarian Academy 4 Bazaar of Baghdad 4 Mishra's Workshop 4 Cabal Pit 1 God's Eye, gate to the Reikai 4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth (25!! Lands) 7 Solomoxen 1 mana Vault 4 Chalice of the Void 1 YAwgmoth's Will 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Vampiric Tutor 3 Nether Void 4 Smokestack 1 Trinisphere 3 Nul Rod 3 Crucible of Worlds 4 Dark Confidant 2 Braids, Cabal Minion |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Black Stax (OR the viability of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth)
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on: February 16, 2007, 04:44:10 am
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Could you elaborate a little on how the more unconventional card-choices tested:
- God's Eye, Gate to the Reikai
- Rishadan Port
- Tomb of Urami
- Braid, Cabal Minion
- Withered Wretch
- Nether Void
- Gate to Phyrexia
With unconventional I don't mean "bad" but just pretty unique to this deck type. It would be great to hear someone elses opinion on these cards, especially Braids.
Thanks,
WhiteWolf
Here goes: - God's Eye, Gate to the Reikai: a great add, but wouldn't cut factories for this one. It does very wel as a permanent to sac, This card is a keeper. - Rishadan Port: Never liked this card, so this may be subjective, but I've cut this card in favor for a wasteland as stated earlier. I didn't get to use a single Rishadan for other purposes than to tap for black mana. - Tomb of Urami: This card won me a game all on it's own!! It's a keep. (If you want to know I dropped two moxen (one of them was the jet) a mana vault and a land first turn. I dropped Tomb of Urami second turn and sacced both lands to get URAMI out with two moxen and an active vault left as manabase. When I passed the turn after that CS threw down a hungry ape which ate my entire permanent supply but URAMI was unstoppable and swung for the win !! (Can't even remember if I was building up a board or not (guess I wasn't)) - Braid, Cabal MinionDidn't get a single braid on the board and it hurts a lot when dark confidant shows you one of these; for those reasons I'm seriously thinking about cutting them in favor of the 4'th bazaar (haven't given up yet) or maybe night's whisper. Hell I could even test some of the sub-par stuff in these slots. - Withered Wretch As a singleton : NO as a metagame-call : maybe (but not one) !!. I saw the wretch in one game and it kept weldertricks from happening till CS found the lava dart again (or was if Fire/Ice, can't be sure) - Nether Void ohhh yessss. I was able to cast this one on a first turn during my testing, with black lotus and a land, followed by workshop and chalice for 1, CS never took a breath after that. Later in the game it helps prevent shit form hitting the fan, so I love the inclusion of Nether Void, to bad you have 2 dead draws when the first copie hits the table, but with bazaar it's worth it. - Gate to Phyrexia This was a Sideboard card, I played my 10 games with no sideboard adjustments so I will have to get back at ya for this one later. Bazaar is still questionalbe for me, I play my hand empty to fast for bazaar to really help out in a positive way, but I'm not giving up on the card. If you (WhitWolf) say it's a good card in this deck, I'm willing to try it out some more to see what it does, and what I do wrong... |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Black Stax (OR the viability of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth)
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on: February 15, 2007, 07:57:53 pm
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@ Bob the Builder: That list seems like a nice integration of all the ideas on this thread. Let us know how the testing went!
I've solo-tested the deck against a Control Slaver build using lava dart and gorilla shaman MD. I won 50% of the games (10) I played. What I really miss in the deck is some more draw, but that could be my playskills in keeping the wrong hands to begin with... I have second thoughts about Bazaar, it didn't help me out all that much. I have now changed the rishadan port into a one-off Wasteland Yawgmoth's Will didn't do all to bad, it even gave me back some speed after the moxmonkey ate some of my perms... But it is not a must, I only got to put it to good use that one time, and in the end even then I don't feel it would have made a dif. I'm new to piloting prison-decks that run smokestack, so keep in mind my testing probably contains masses of play-errors, but I still have a question about the outcome: Is it normal for a stax-deck to have these odds against CS (50%)?? |
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Black Stax (OR the viability of Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth)
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on: February 14, 2007, 10:37:08 pm
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I'm no stacks player whatsoever. Hell I didn't even play an actual vintage event for over (more than) a year now... But I intend to come back to vintage soon (unfortunatly not with a stacks deck since I don't have the workshops).
I was very pleased to read this thread and after reading all the postst I put togheter a list I might tinker with next practise-session I get:
2 God's Eye, Gate to the Reikai
4 Mishra's Workshop
1 Rishadan Port
3 Mishra's Factory
4 Cabal Pit
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine
3 Bazaar of Baghdad
1 Tomb of Urami
7 Solomoxen
1 Mana Vault
4 Dark Confidant
2 Braid, Cabal Minion
1 Withered Wretch
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Null Rod
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Trinisphere
4 Smokestack
3 Nether Void
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
SB:
3 Maze of Ith
2 Gate to Phyrexia
4 Defense Grid
4 Leyline of the Void
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Wish me luck, I know I'll need it.
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