The thing is, by turn 5-6 I am still dropping lands usually..  It may not look like enough lands, but it does accelerate decently, turn 5 i've had emeria active on more than 1 occasion, and have gotten a turn 6 Iona a couple of times.  Also, journey has been key (things like goblin guide/step lynx need to be removed early, or else they do a bit of damage).  Also its been great against the vampires in my area *cough bloodghast*.

Really I guess, its more like recommendations for SB im looking for.  While armillary sphere looks great on paper, I usually dont have the problem's it would fix..

Not try to play this deck competatively?  You play a combo that, while it will save you for awhile, wont save you for forever.  For decks that run vault/key they will just eventually win, fish wont have too much of a problem more than likely (which is honestly the "best" matchup for you, considering your combo can do something there..).

If you want to play mill, do a take on painters grind; its about the closest thing to competative mill that you will find.

What im saying is, the deck just isnt playable without complete revision.  (also your only running 18 mana sources in your list, which is about 4 short of being able to drop land with any consistancy ).

All in all, nice pet deck, but if you take it to a major tourney...  Well then you will probably just suffer the fate most other jank decks face.

Chances are, you need to get that mana maze/rule of law down turn 1, or else they will just duress it out of your hand..

Also, if you set your chalice to 1, it takes out a bit of your own deck as well, not to mention the only


Im just not convinced this deck can disrupt the tops decks enough to make a difference.  Also, this deck has only 1 way to turn 1 chalice for 1.  That is mishra's workshop, which means you essentially set yourself back a turn in casting any of your combo, meanwhile TPS/Tezz may be running counterspells beyond just FoW (like Mana Drain)..

Also, against fish, I see this deck pulling an epic fail of sorts.  With quasali's running around MD, and more aggro creatures like tarmogoyf, they can easily keep your combo under control with the limited amount of control you have. #1, you have no creature removal and rely on the combo, #2 that combo can be dealt with easier than you think..  #3 I think this deck also just loses to ichorid (considering ichorid says bazaar, go, EOT bazaar, upkeep bazaar, dredge, dredge, dredge, draw, dredge..  win.

Yes, BUT its Tezz has time vault/key out, they are going to win.  They will have more counters than you can deal with eventually.

And what are you going to do against TPS?  They dont deal damage, you lose life.  Therefore, you die no matter what you do.  A single misdirection wont win you the game, and chances are they have duressed your hand to hell already.

What does this deck do against Tezzeret or TPS?   Tezz may eventually dig a bounce spell up, and TPS makes you lose life.

Thanks, thats a great idea for a SB card..  My current metagame is all aggro (and turbofog; which is like an auto win for me).  While I dont have a good jund deck to test against up here, from my testing vampires are a 99% chance of victory for me, and mono red/redwhite aggro is still a fairly decent matchup (especially post sideboard).

I have high hopes for this deck (seeing as how a worse mono white control deck went T16 at the recent Starcity tournament).

// Lands
21 Plains
3 Emeria, the Sky Ruin

// Creatures
3 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Kor Cartographer
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Baneslayer Angel
2 Kor Skyfisher

// Spells
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Path to Exile
4 Day of Judgement
4 Journey to Nowhere
3 Martial Coup    

// Sideboard
3 Open the Vaults
2 Pithing Needle
4 Celestial Purge

This is the current list.  Narrow escape is out, and how can I control without removal?  Path is NOT enough removal for this deck..

Anyways, this deck rarely does not get up to Iona mana by turn 9, and easily stalls decks to turn 9 (unless I keep a trashy hand).

Also, Armillary Sphere over Kor Cartographer doesnt make sense.

Kor Cartographer accelerats my plain count to #1 cast Iona sooner; #2 activate Emeria sooner.  All Armillary does is give me some plains in hand, and I have to pay a total of 4 mana for its effect anyways, the chumping body on the Cartographer is great.

//   Lands      
   21   Plains
          3        Emeria, the sky ruin
      
//   Creatures   
   2   World Queller
   3   Iona, Shield of Emeria   
   4   Kor Cartographer
   4   Knight of the White Orchid
   2   Baneslayer Angel
   
//   Spells   
   4   Oblivion Ring
   4   Narrow Escape
   4   Day of Judgement
   2   Luminarch Ascension   
   4   Journey to Nowhere
   3   Martial Coup
      
//   Sideboard
   3   Open the Vaults
   2   Pithing Needle   
   4   Path to Exile
   2   Baneslayer Angel
   4   Celestial Purge

The idea is to mana ramp via knight of the white orchid/kor cartographer, and cast iona...  Or win with luminarch/baneslayer.  With 8 mainboard (12 if you count Narrow Escape) removal, along with 7 wrath effects with 4 day of judgement/3 martial coup, there is usually plenty of "love" for threats decks put out.

Now card choices..  Iona seems like an ODD thing to play considering its mana cost, but Iona pretty much reads *play iona, win the game*.

World Queller..  World Queller's ability to nuke planeswalkers off the field is definately nice.  Another use is if the opponent has a troublesome field with creatures, there is nice interaction with queller + emeria, the sky ruin.  Sack World Queller, then bring him back, or sack another creature and bring it back.

Another great card is just emeria the sky ruin.  this is pretty much MVP.  Blightning?  Pitch your iona and get it back when you ramp up.  Need to thin?  Bring back Kor Cartographer.

Baneslayer Angel.. Well its a solid finisher.  I dont run 4 however because while its a finisher, it doesnt necessarily get to finish.  Its a spot removal magnet however..  And if I feel their deck cant take the threat of 4 baneslayer, then i side them in.

Sideboard:
Open the Vaults..  If the opponent happens to run alot of enchantment hate, I see this being beneficial, however it is untested right now.

Pithing Needle..  This is my rainy day planeswalker hate.  Slap it down whenever and watch elspeth cry.

Path to Exile/Celestial Purge..  These ALL come in aggainst hasty aggro decks.  I usually sacrifice a couple o rings and a journey to nowhere along with martial coups and my world quellers.  With so much removal, aggro cant usually stay on the table.

Baneslayer..  I side it in aggainst decks that I feel cant deal with it effectively when im already controlling their board.

I took this to a FNM tourney and while I dont know the tournout (maybe 30?) I ended up placing 2nd.  My only losses were to a white weenie deck (faced it twice).

The first time I played him I got 3 mana and no removal.  Second game I got mana flooded and no removal.

The second time (finals) was a bit better.  1st game I controlled him and landed Iona on the board, resulting in an immediate concessions.  2nd game I didnt draw enough relevent removal.  Game 3 was very close.  It came down to him taking a risky move and pathing baneslayer when i was at 7 lands with iona in hand.  I was at 3 and he had 2 kor skyfishers + elspeth on board.  It came down to me topdecking a land and winning, or dieing.  I topdecked a pithing needle and lost that one however.  It was a very close match, and was much better than my first against him.

My total wins with Iona that night was 3.

1 In my first match against Mana ramp Elves, 1 in my first match against mono red goblins, and the 1 against the white weenie.

All in all I think this is a viable deck and look forward to finding improvements for it.

Also, for anyone who doesnt understand Narrow Escape's shenanigans..

Play JtN/Oring, in response to it coming into play bounce it back to my hand. Their card is perm. removed, I have 4 more life, and still have that JtN/Oring to play.  Its also useful for bouncing things out of way of removal (of course).

Way to thread necro..

Before posting look at the post date :/...

Im gonna vehemontly say no, it is not viable in Type 2..  Theres not a good enough starting play to really cripple your opponent while they set up camp, and against aggro its almost impossible to race them.

Some sort of neo-Blighning is your best bet.

Ah, my bad.  It didn't seem quite right to me either, however all I remember is hearing "controller is now owner", and someone was complaining about their mono blue control deck just got shafted because gilded drake didnt work anymore..  Or something.

Im fairly sure this does not work.  Thats how it USED to work...  You play gilded drake, take their creature, bounce gilded drake back to your hand..  this was because "controller" and "owner" were not the same player.  This also meant tokens put into play on an opponents side of the field were "owned" by you, but not "controlled"...  Post changes, "owner" and "controller" are the same person...  So this is what happens now.

You play gilded drake.  Exchange control of drake and one of their creatures.  You are now the OWNER of that creature, they are now the OWNER of gilded drake.. If you bounce drake, it goes to their hand since they are the owner of that creature.

At least thats how I think it is.  If I am wrong feel free to correct me and show me exactly why.

3) If you play bounce like repeal or echoing truth, then you can use it to gain multiple creatures.

Wrong.  you cannot do this post M10 rules..

IMO, gilded drake is not worth it without that, and I think that honestly even WITH that its only good for casual play.

I like this deck actually.  I was playing around with it a bit, and it can come out quick and pretty brutal.  I think it has potential .

Thanks, your comment will always be close to my heart. /sarcasm..

Exalted allows Selkie to shine, really.

Noble accelerates mana..

Pridemage gets rid of artifacts that need to be gotten rid of.

Ah, roger.  Looks like ill need me some jittes..  The problem with fish is..  It may very well go into a tourney, beat out stax, ichorid, TPS..  But then it'll just get raped by some random aggro deck lol.  At least thats what i've seen, and I forgot about Jitte.  That does seem like a solid side in.

Well..  Dread Return, kelpie, dredge.  Cabal Therapy kelpie, dredge 3 times.

I beleive Kelpie is just more consistant TBH

Use Wispmere in its place.  W evoke cost:Destroy target enchantment.

Now, let me try to understand something..  Is Umezawa's Jitte usually in SB in decks for aggro?  Or how is it usually used?  Thanks.


^^ Caselogik, I dont know how much land tax's effect would be seen, and in fact it seems rather useless, considering decks dont run many basic lands to begin with..  And if a basic land is needed, that is why decks run fetches.

A friend of mine plays River Kelpie instead of Cephalid Sage, and i beleive you should try him as well.  I think in the end the extra draw the kelpie effectively provides is worth it.

4 Wheel of Sun and Moon, 2 Leyline of the Voids, 2 Leyline of Lifeline, 4 Ghost Quarter, 2 Tormods, 1 Relic.  The only deck I KNEW was going up there was Ichorid, so I was prepared.  But in the end it didnt even matter since we tied, and I even won the first game lol.


I must say, I like this list alot..  I may just have go to G/W/U.  I knew I was going to eventually have to add another color in, however after looking at this list I think blue is the right way to go.

What was your sideboard?  And congrat's

Yes, I agree.  They both have their merits.  I would personally love to run 2/2, but I dont have the ability to get Tarmogoyfs.

My matchups up to finals were trash decks pretty much, but my last one was a Mana'd Ichorid.  I took 1st game, he took 2nd, and 3rd game was a draw.

And the Knight is great.  My best play on the night was..  Wasteland targeting my own land, in response using knight of the reliquary to sack the land, searching for a fetch, popping the fetch, and pumping my other knight +3 for the win.

Well this is the current list.  Got me 1st at a small tourney at my local gameshop.  Seemed like it had an answer for most everythng that was there.

// Lands
    1  Strip Mine
    4  Wasteland
    4  Windswept Heath
    2  Plains
    2  Forest
    4  Temple Garden
    2  Wooded Foothills

// Creatures
    4 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
    4  Gaddock Teeg
    4  Knight of the Reliquary
    4  Aven Mindcensor
    4  Elvish Spirit Guide
    3  True Believer
    3  Kataki, War's Wage
    4  Noble Hierarch
    4  Glowrider
    3 Ethersworn Canonist

// Spells
    4  Swords to Plowshares

I definately see what your saying, however can I see a decklist to get a further grasp?  Im reather new to the vintage seen, however I have high hopes for this deck at least lol.  Im taking it to a small tournament on Tuesday and I hope it works out well.

Thank you .

Ill definately do the canonist.  Whats the suggestion if I cannot get Null Rods however?  Right now im close to getting the deck completely finished, while null rods may take a bit for me to get; so in the meantime any other suggestions?

Hello, this is my GW fish deck im in the process of building (and very close).  I have no power access, and no access to tarmogoyfs (I find Knight of the Reliquary to be "Good Enough", and can fetch me some wastelands ). I have most of the list down pack, but I have 3 slots open that I dont know what to really do with.  Any input is appreciated .  So far I have played against a Stax deck, and between wasteland, pride mage, and Kataki I think I went 5-2 against him.

// Lands
    1  Strip Mine
    4  Wasteland
    4  Windswept Heath
    2  Plains
    2  Forest
    4  Temple Garden
    2  Wooded Foothills

// Creatures
    4 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
    4  Gaddock Teeg
    4  Knight of the Reliquary
    4  Aven Mindcensor
    4  Elvish Spirit Guide
    3  True Believer
    3  Kataki, War's Wage
    4  Noble Hierarch
    4  Glowrider
    3 Open

// Spells
    4  Swords to Plowshares