How about siding out Mana Crypt in matchups where lots of hate is expected to be bearded in by your opponent and the games are likely to go long?

Usually, in g1, t1-2 Oath + Orchard can only be stopped by FoW. In g2, it is far more risky to tap the Orchard (or Mana Crypt) to play t1-2 Oath, because they will probably have an answer for your Oath. Just an idea though, it might not be the correct approach.

Also, one way to up the count of artifact to support academy might be the addition of Top and/or Engineered Explosives. EE is somewhat similar to deed (which is superb here) and fits nicely to the 5c manabase.

Anyways, this version of Oath is awesome, it reminds me of the Terastodon Oath to some degree - very robus and flexible.

I have been enjoying your articles quite a bit. You seem to put good amount of effort into those. Good job!

YES! I knew it! Awesome deck, congrats!

Will there be a stream link posted here? Ty!

I just wanted to make a quick comment on the baby Jace. I have faced it multiple times now on mtgo and, facing it mostly on T1, it has very meaningful impact on the game.

The theorycrafting here is nice to read, but it was not until I have faced it in a real game I realized how good it actually is. It's not a broken spell we are used to be playing in Vintage, but it certainly gives the pilot lots of options and ways to navigate through the game. It seems to be the trend these days to shift out of the broken strategies and rely more on consistent/slower ways to win games. I'd say the main reason for this is likely to be the dominance of Shops. And this is exactly why the baby Jace is good, imo. You rarely lose games these days by being overwhelmed by broken spells. You lose more often by being buried under CA, denied to play spells, or generally just controlled to death. So, baby Jace on T1 has plenty of time to put you in a advantageous position from which you can win the game then.

Also, regarding Ojutai, I have possitive experience playing it in an Oath shell. Basically, due to the fact that players won't scoop to Salvagers + Lotus combo on mtgo most of the time, I tweaked Brian Kelly's Oath deck and removed the combo, added more control cards + Ojutai instead of Salvagers. I was surprised how effective it is to Oath up this dragon. It is very easily casted from your hand, so it dodges all the Oath hate out there too. The deck can transform into pure Planeswalker/Oath + Dromoka/Ojutai control, I even cut few Orchards to make a breathing room for my planeswalkers. I was really stunned how many matches I was able to win just because most people had no Idea how to play against this kind of Oath deck that does not rely on the card Oath of Druids as much.

Just few observations.

Nice report. Thanks for sharing.

I'm myself looking for ways to move away from the "all-in on Griselbrand" Oath build because it relies on Oath so heavily (and it is hated out currently), you get really weird hands with multiple Show and Tells and you are instantly in a "let's hope there is Griselbrand on top of my library" scenario and also due to the fact that Griselbrand itself is relatively easily hated out by reworker, karakas, notion thief, jace and many other cards. People are very prepared for the most popular Oath version these days (3 Griselbrand - 3 Show and Tells - Vault/Key win after draw 7-14) that I think you can only reliably win by drawing the nuts, which, in the long run, is not what is going to happen, imho. Just my few cents.

I've tried Brian Kelly's approach and I like it a lot. I'm currently in the process of tweaking the deck to fit my current meta and possibly come up with new techs that would allow me to compete with Gush/Dig/Standstill draw engine, or Oath/Griselbrand popular hate cards. The only problem I have is that I can only test on mtgo, where executing the bomberman thing is actually nerly impossible, unless you have some massive masochistic clicking skills.

Good job anyways on the 5-0 streak.

I think this is the killing blow. The situation as it was before this change made me already to almost stop playing in daily events, because I just could not cash out frequently enough for it not to hurt. I'd have to play the top 1-2 decks around to make for less skill/experience I have, but thats what I don't want to do. I like to experiment and make my own decks. Add to that the horrible programm mtgo is right now and you can see they are asking too much this time.

The desire for printing Oath hate never wears off..

Couldn't have said it better! I've been refreshing myself for quite some time now, hopefully I'm able to follow the actual thing when it gets online. :p

Awesome! Can't wait, the beers are ready here in Europe...

Good luck to everyone, I hope the stream will be working. Can we expect the link to be posted here? Thanks. Have a good magic day!

Hi,

we have an argument with my friend. He says I can not prevent damage from attacking creature by untapping it. I believe it is possible to react to declaring attackers, for example by untapping it. The reason I strongly believe this is the case is that I clearly remember I have untapped Blightsteel Colossus many times with Voltaic Key, making it deal no damage to me. But does it work tha same way with other creatures? For Example Master Decoy and random 2/2 attacking creature?

Thank you, hopefully I am right, or else I will have to drink like 10 shots in a row

I think it is only fair to note that you could have lost 0-2. You were very lucky not to run into a Misstep with your Ancestral in game 2, in my opinion.

I can't decide who to root for in Rich vs Dave match. On one side, I love Oath of Druids archetype and I'm long term Rich fan, but I want Dave to win all of his last matches so badly, because he totally deserves it (great player and he gives very insightful/entertaining commentary too). Also, it doesn't seem like he is making mistakes or wrong deck choices, either (similarly to Bob).

On a side not (sorry for off-topic), I wonder what is the main purpose of Memory's Journey in Gerg's Oath list. I always thought the main reason is to not get decked, but with 3 Griselbrands this hardly seems to be the same reason anymore. So my guess would be that it serves as some sort of an insurance you are able to assemble Vault/Key even if you happen to flip those cards in graveyard (and/or also Yawg. Will) while Oathing.

Super good read, very good primer.

I like this deck a lot and I'm inclined to try something like this should I ever break my passion for Oath of Druids.

I've run into this deck few times and from what I can remember I was able to "overpower" it, but it might be just me drawing the nuts, as from what I can tell this deck should clearly have decent match vs. Oath. I remember winning games due to my own Decays, Thoughtseizes and Toxic Deluge (basically the stuff that dodges Caverns, etc...). It would take some testing sessions to come up with any conclusion, so I'm not going to jump to any.

Overall, I think this deck is very well positioned in current meta and it really should have a game vs. almost everything.

Good job.

I'm sorry, but it really feels like you are either a bit rude/arrogant or you jump to conclusions way too fast. You could also write something reasonable to defend your post, instead, you opt for few sentences full of sarcasm, which only makes you look childish. I don't want to derail this thread anymore, so I will just leave it at that. Feel free to contribute to the discussion please.

But 3 mana vs 2 mana argument is not only the question of different context. At least, I'd say you can't simply ignore this fact by saying those cards are played in different shells.

Versus shops, resolving 2 mana spell is easier then resolving 3 mana spell, period. It doesn't really help having more moxes, crypt, sol ring when you are facing chalices, wastelands or even basic sphere effects. What matters is how fast (or if at all) you are able to resolve your threats against shops. In this case, Pyromancer is just better (similarly to Oath of Druids, where being able to play land+mox+threat is the deal here). It reminds me how people always argue about rebuild vs hurkyl's recall. There are ways to stop hurkyl's recall and it doesn't cycle, but still, hurkyl's recall is overall being played way more, due to the simple fact that the hole between 2 and 3 mana, especially versus shops, is enormous. I'd say that you could apply similar logic here. I might be wrong of course, but I definitely think it is a valid argument.

Wow, interesting choice in Iona, Shield of Emeria from Robert Edwards. Also, no Sol Ring but Mana Crypt? Interesting. I'm sure there is some reasoning behind those decisions though.

Just watched whole S2W2 from archives. This is so awsome! I swear I could spent the rest of my life watching those guys play and discuss all the things going on. For example Rich and David observing Bob vs Kai match, that was so entertaining and insightful. I got immediately thirsty for some vintage action, had to start up my mtgo client and play few matches.. Keep it up guys, it really is something for this format.

Yes, good points.

I overlooked how important Trinket Mage is for this deck. It would probably require Drains to get to 6 mana reliably to cast Sphinx.

I was thinking more like how could this deck go more broken while not hindering itself by playing chalice @1. I think Oath is very good in current meta, even without an Orchard. I'd say almost always a must-counter and having Sphinx instead of Griselbrand, while clearly inferior, is great because it bypasses the Oath hate to some degree - you are able to hard-cast Sphinx pretty easily. So it would lead to a situation where people would go heavy on cages and Oath hate, delaying themself significantly and you would not really care all that much, because you could eventually hard-cast it.

Hard-casting creatures to dodge Oath hate is a bit underrated I believe anyways, because Griselbrand is so prevalent, while beaing almost unrealistic to hard-cast. But other creatures, while not having game winning impact immediately, are pretty easy to cast, like Sphinx and Rune-Scarred Demon.

But losing the Trinket package and all it's utility is probably not worth it. And the fact this deck is build to beat Delver, it doesn't make really sense to add cards that are also good against this matchup. I was toying with Sphinx in my Oath list a bit, so it just naturally poped into my mind.

What if you cut few lands and spells (like show/tell) and add the Oath packege? It goes around chalice @1 too.

I went 3-3 with Oath, then dropped. It seems like nothing is really going to stop the consistency of delver. I lost to Rich Shay with multiple maindeck cages, then I lost 1 match where they had it all and I had nothing at all.. Also lost 1 match to white hate deck which seemed to be playing 20 lands and 40 anti-Oath cards. I tried red for Pyroblasts in sb for jaces and control matchups, but it ended up costing me 1 game where I lost with no black source and Deluge, 2 Decay in hand and I also lost to delver where my Pyroblasts were there only to fuel up their cruises. Probably Oath will be hated out again very soon.

Good event overall, good job, congrats to winners. Hopefull wotc can keep this up.

Yeah, thanks, that is exactly what I thought. Mana Crypt just doesn't fit in those lists. It was the first thing I cut while building my own thing. Anyways, I had a blast playing similar deck recently, it is a pleasure to pilot.

Only thing I can't get right (beside always setting my couters ratio wrong for given meta - I play lots of MTGO daylies, so it is very random) is the ratio and amount of late-game cards like Jaces/Digs/Gifts/Tezzeret and such. I often wish I had the other card instead, because Jaces are ofted dead due to own Orachrds, I often get far behind before I get my Dig to be active (mostly when it is in my opening hand). I've been experimenting with Gifts/Regrowth lately, but there are drawbacks too, so I'm kinda lost there.

Well, if you (or anyone) could make a short comment on your experience with those issues, I'd appreciate it very much.

PS: Sorry, if this is not a correct place to ask such questions.

Greg's Oath list and Mark's Oath list seem to have more then 60 cards. Is that correct or am I out of my mind?

The deck looks nice, it's hard to tell how it actually feels playing it, here are my observations so far:

1) Have you concidered playing Fastbond and going up to 4 Gushes? It seems like it would fit nicely into deck with Gushes and multiple tutors anyways. It would certainly increase the power level of the deck.

2) Assuming your Intuition piles are either Gushes or Cruises, I don't see any way to replay those cards other then Yawg will. So after resolving Intuition, you will most likely only play 1 Gush or 1 Cruise for the rest of the game, depending on what you went for with Intuition (or do you setup your piles differently?). Aren't you essentially cutting your draw engine this way? I believe Intuition piles should contain either 3 cards that are likely to win you the game (like Oath), or 3 cards that you can interact with after they are put into graveyard (like Accumulated Knowladge). I see that it enables Cruise a bit faster, but the sacrifice to do so seems not to be worth it in this case.

3) Playing in current meta, I'd probably go up to 4 Missteps. Especially when you have lots of important 1cc spells (Ancestral, all tutors, Top, Key as your win condition) and you need to protect them against opponent's Missteps.

4) Playing 1 Drain feels a bit random, I'd concider either cutting it or go up to 2-3 to make it feel like a mana drain deck. You have lots of cards that would make use of Drain's mana nicely anyways.

5) I'd concider adding Gifts + Regrowth. This is one of the best ways to assemble Key/Vault and Regrowth would help with Intuition piles too. Lets say you have Key in play just sitting there (happens pretty often right?). Well, now your Intuition is a game winning spell, because you will go for Yawg Will, Vault, Regrowth. Obviously this works in all combinations.

6) I'd concider some removal spells or at least some bounce spells maindeck, because you will be under lots of pressure quickly against aggro based decks that can resolve their threats in first few turns (like Young Pyromancer). All that life loss between Missteps, Whispers, Seal, Vamp and Probe will just add up to that.

7) I think your lists is missing 2 Moxen and Mana Crypt. I'd definitely play Crypt with Tinker, Thirst, Whispers, Intuition, etc.

I quite like 2 Misdirections (good defense vs Abrupt Decay).

Firstly, this was an awesome event and I've been watching all the matches with my face attached to my screen devouring knowladge all the time. No need bringing attention anywhere else. I'm a guy who don't get to play Vintage often because nobody playes it where I live, so for me this feels like a Christmas gift. Thanks WotC for VMA, Randy and all participating for this.

Secondly, congratulations to you, Steve, for this big and deserved victory!

Steve, I'd like to ask you the same question Randy asked you in the interview after the finals. I think you didn't get a chance to answer completely.

What you think made you win those matches when you feel like you got outplayed by LSV (I believe you said this, correct me if I'm wrong)?

To me, it seemed like you were trying to win on card advantage most of the time. Just outdrawing LSV and counter every single relevant spell (I'd almost say you were "allin on CA" if that makes any sense at all - playing gushes to discard cards multiple times, prioritizing cantrips where you could put some pressure on, etc...). Was this your go to plan, or was this a reaction due to you being confused as you said by some unusual sideboard choices by LSV? Or is this just a natural thing given by the amount of Gushes/Cruises with all those Preordains, etc...? It certainly seems like this deck is not build to play such a hard control role you've taken here. Of course I might be wrong (I'm probably wrong).

Anyways, it I can't wait for next season!

Why would this card need to be stupidly broken itself to be an example of lazy design? From Oath player's point of view, this card actually is stupidly broken, even worse then Cage.

Why on Earth would they not remove Vault/Key prior to anything else if they wanted to slow down the format and fight the broken stuff?

1st turn Land, Mox, Sol Ring, Demonic Tutor. 2nd turn Vault, Key... How fun it is to play against this?

Win the die roll, 1st turn Workshop, Mox, Golem. 2nd turn Sphere... Why is there no initiative to do something about this?

1st turn Mox, Orchard, Oath. Similar thing, however you can at least answer this in other way then having Force + blue card. Yet this is obviously broken and calls for printing more and harder answers.

No, this card is not an attempt of "we want to slow down the game and fight the broken" in my eyes. This card is directly attacking certain deck. Even Ethan himself said they wanted to restrict the pressure Oath/Tinker is able to put on creature based decks.

If they printed something like "If a creature was put onto the battlefield and it's casting cost was not paid, that player loses life equals to the casting cost of that creature", that would have been like 10x times more interesting and therefor not a "lazy design" imo. This way you would have to be thinking about your life total, what creatures you play so how much life you could potentially lose, can you survive his next attack phase or not, is he able to burn me right away, etc..

Maybe it's not the best example, but you get the idea. Instead the other guy just plays this asap and you are like - hmm, ok, I guess I'll just sit here until I find my Abrupt Decay or I'm dead.

Where are cards like "2/2 for 1W, flash - if an opponent would take an extra turn, you take the extra turn instead", or "1/2 for W - as long as an opponent controls 3 or more artifacts, this gets +3/+3 and has lifelink."?

double post - removed.

I'm more concerned about the overall direction they are heading for instead of having issues with single hate cards (I'm very used to fight hate, obviously). And I don't like HOW they seem to do it. I mean, look at this card. You want to Oath? Bam, removed. Show and Tell? Bam. Tinker? Bam. You are done... I think someone else here was mentioning "lazy design"... So what is next? For 1 - "Search your opponents library. If your opponent has creatures with casting cost more then 6, you may exile them."?

Also, I'm not buying that Oath has always had it pretty easy compared to other decks (I don't really count Dredge). I would say you can somewhat compare it to Storm due to Misstep and Flusterstorm/Trap. But there were always very cheap and effective cards to stop Oath should it start winning consistently (Shops are dominating for years now, but it's fine, since it wins by tapping guys sideways right). Given that Oath is an enchantment, it is really easy to hate on it. More then you can hate on other standard archetypes I would say. And Oath almost always gives at least 1 turn to their opponents to dig for their answers.

By the way, isn't saying that Claim plays into the Oath pilot's hand because of Misstep the same as saying that Cage plays into the Oath pilot's hand because of Misstep?

Also, I like how you can kill your opponent with the answers at the same time now. The 2/2 null rod thing, now this 2/2 cage priest, etc.. Or Lodestone Golem to some degree. I understand the argument that white is underrepresented in Vintage. But come on, why would you print something that kills directly so many strategies in such manner. You just play the card and laugh how you shut down your whole opponent's deck that is desperately trying to find ways to fight all the hate there is already (playing Show and Tell, Tinker, because it is so easy to deny Oath). Of course I have answers to this card, but once more, I don't like their approach with this.

Like, they leave Vault/Key in there and print stuff like this, I don't really get it...

edit: Sorry, now that I read my post again I realise it might sound a bit aggresive. I'm a bit frustrated right now. Fact is that something similar could be said about cards like Massacre, just the other way around. But I still don't like it. 

I wish the day I fell in love with Oath of Druids never existed. It's always something. Nature's Claim, Cage, now this thing. I just happen to love the archetype that goes against everyone's will to turn Vintage into Legacy or Modern (tapping 2/2 dude 10x times to get the job done). FML.