The Problem is there is no way you can abuse Stasis.
1;You don´t have Morphling.
2;You have no way to bounce Stasis eot.
3;You don´t have enough lands to succesfully support Stasis.
4;Your missing the best Card in a Stasis Deck:Gush



Fish is not Tier 1 anymore but I would say that it still is a very good Choice for most metas.
When the Meta is full of WS U/R Fish won´t be a bad choice or if the Meta is full of Oath U/W is a really good choice also both Versions are quite good against the Rest of the Field(Every other Control and Combo Deck).

In the Eye of Chaos

Well a really nice way of fighting opposing welders are just to kill them instead of swapping around.
I renember MUD using 3-4 Triskelions to comat opposing Welders.
Maybe you could run some of them because against WS.dec you need to get the Welders off the table and then you should overun them anyway.

While testing the Deck I noticed a very interessting thing.
Goblin Welder was dead too often and most of the time I wanted to drop something else instead of it.And when I casted him he was killed with ease.
Also I think that this Deck is really powerfull but it has the same Problem that MUD has.It often just goes Top Deck Mode.To fix that I would cut the Welder and add 2 Gradted Skullclaps instead.You sad this Deck lacks of draw yourself and Skullcap fixes that Problem on its on.Some will say that you can only cast him in lategame but thats the reason why you should run 2.
As for the Welder Replacement 3# and 4# I would add another Crucible(Waste,Strip,Workshop,Factory and Razormane Masticore are a very good reason to run 4!) and probably a dupe.


Another thing is Tangle Wire.Have you tested it?I could imagine that it could fit perfectly in this Deck.


regards,
Aggro Dude

According to this Thread Mana Leak and Duress are both extremly usefull in the current Environment.

Then I started making a Decklist.I don´t saw any reason to include Green because I think that Tog really doesn´t need to Berserk that often anymore.What kind of Aggro Decks are there?

Red seemed more Important to me due the Fact that REB absolutely rocks.

 
After I read JP´s post about the Mana Base I included this following Mana Base:

5 Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
2 Volcanic Island
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Libary of Alexandria
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Saphire
1 Mox Perl
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring

This Mana based worked out quite smooth for me but I did not test that much.However I decided to cut the Wastelands because they already mana other MD answers to Workshop.dec.

Also if you ask me I would run following Counter Base:
4 Duress
4 Mana Leak
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will

With that many counters a Tog Deck should be able to deal with many control and combo decks in the format.
Misdirection may be better against various decks but Mana Leak is just good against almost anything.
With all that Oath and Slaver running around you should outrace them In counter wars.

With the Inclusion of Mana Leak I just decided to cut the most cutable cards in the Deck:
First of all I reduced the number of Deep Analyses because I already should have a favorable Machup against Combo.
Then I cut Merchants Scroll and Mystical Tutor.Some of you will say that at least one of these Tutors should be a auto inclusion but I just think that tog draws like hell and instead of the Tutors I just throw a Vampiric in the SB.
Maybe it was not the correct choice but for me Dures is more important than those tutors.

Now lets get to the SB here is the SB that I would run:

1 Diabolic Edict
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Fact or Fiction
3 Rack and Ruin
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Fling
2 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Stifle
1 Echoing Truth
1 Fire/Ice


Card Choices:
1 Diabolic Edict:This seemed like obvious to me because smother is not that good anymore and Diabolic is great killing Welders as well.
3 Red Elemental Blast:With all the Oath and Drain Slaver around..
Fact or Fiction:Some draw in the Side is needed I think.
3 Rack n Ruin:Without Deed and Mutation I wanted a replacement and so I added some extra Rack n Ruins because in multiples they improve your WS machtup a lot.
1 Vampiric:Without all the Tutors this is a must.
1 Fling:Allthough I wish rarely for Fling sometimes it is the Card I need against Scrub.dec
2 Blue Elemental Blast:Maybe 3 copies would be better because Dragon is on the rise again and welders are everywhere.
1 Stifle:Of course this is against Combo and sometimes even Smokestack but it is not the Card it used to be anymore..
1 Echoing Truth:Oath and Random.dec
1 Fire/Ice:Welder and Aggro



just my 02 cents

What if Suicide would cut Sinkhole for something like Smother.
With 4x Diabolic Edicts and 4x Smother I guess Hmyn would still be good.

And what if Sui would run Crucible and some Fetchlands?With Fetchlands you have a lesser Chance of entering the Top Deck Modus and Cruncible with Waste/Strips combined with Discard seems powerfull.

First of all I just don´t feel that I have a good Decklist at the moment here is what bebe pmed me


I hope Bebe doesn´t blame me for posting his list,I just posted it because Outlaw wanted to see a list.
Don´t ask me anything about list ask bebe please.

As for the Tangle Wires.Yes you run few permanents but you can play most of your spells in your upkeep and your oppenent can´t.It has also great Interaction with Rishadan Port,Grim Lavamancer,Shrapel Blast and Strip Effects.
It is no auto inclusion but it is definetly good.


As for Price of Progress it belongs to the Cards that are Auto-Inclusion in Mono Red just like Bolt is.

Some time ago I was working on a Budget Mono Red Deck.
It worked out quite good for me because it was solid against 4 CC and Drain Slaver.
Then some strange Deck like Oath came up and I stopped working on Mono Red and started working on Oath.
After a while I checked Decks on Morphling and then I saw some sligh decks gone Top 8 in a Metagame full of competitive decks like 4CC,Fish,WS...

Now Fork is unrestricted but no one really cares,it seems like a bit too random.

I honestly believe that Mono Red has the potential to be a at least serious deck in the format.The reaspn why I believe that it is are all the Bombs Red Decks are able to Play.

Wasteland/Stripmine:Yes I know almost every Deck in the format can use this but combined with cheap creatures and lavamancers and maybe even Tangle Wire they are even better.

Rishadan Port:Great Card.Tap 4CC second white Mana or use it as a Meddling Mage naming Mana Drain while dropping Jackal Pubs that smash face.Even better with Crucible,Tangle Wire and Pillage.

Great Furnace:Sweet Interacion with Shrapel Blast,bad interaction with Null rod and opposing Mox Monkeys.

Maximum Amount of Fechlands:This is really savage.Even without Crucible it works really well.The only problem is that I sometimes found myself loosing against Stifle(but on the other Hand all the decks that play Stifle are favorable Machtups->landstill,fish)

Tanglewire:Some people will say that it actually hurts the Mono Red player more than the oppenent but this is false.In my testing it was always better for you.Against Control you will likely break their Mana Drain wall and stop them from draining into big threads or doing something like eot intution and Ak.Against Storm Based Combo it is a Multiple time walk if they dont cast hurklys recall or something.

Crucible of Worlds:Another Artifact but combined with Tangle Wire,Wastelands,Stripmine,Maximum amount of fetchlands and Shrapel Blast is really awesome.

Cursed Scroll:->Sceptor.

Ankh of Mishra:This Card is awesome against Dragon Combo or Control and it Can be Shrapel Blasted away but it has really bad synergie with Fetchlands.I think it is a personal Choice if you go for Fetchlands or Ankh.
Combined with Crucible Strip Mine lock it is also sweet.

Null Rod:Still shuts down various many things.Still a pain in the ass against most top decks in the format.

Isochron Sceptor:Awesome ultimate reloading Stick but a quite fragile.If you run it cards like Fire/Ice,Shrapel Blast or Magma jet become more powerfull.Yeah I guess it is a Metagame Choice between Null Rod and Stick.

Grafted Skullcap:Even if it seems too mana Intensive with 4 CC(and actually it is!).When it hits,it hits hard.Control and Aggro will have to scoope if they cant get rid of it.

Blood Moon:I do not know if it deserves a MD slot but It is powerfull indeed but if I would not run this along with Crucible and in todays Meta Crucible seems to be a better Option.

Scald:A Pain in the Ass for Mono Blue and Oath.Also usefull against other Blue Decks.

Red Elemental Blast and Hydroblast:Anti Control Card Nr 1 in you Deck.If you run 8 of these you have a really good Machtup against Blue Decks but 8 might be overkill against 4CC.

Fire/Ice:IMO this is the best Burn card we have atm.Not only that it kills Welders and homosexual creatures.I also find myself while killing Spirit tokens and shooting a Damage at your oppenent at the same time and wasting the Orchard afterwards.It also houses many Decks on the Stick(I tap your fettie draw a Card).

Slith Firwalker:This is the red Dryad but without Chrome Mox and with Wasteland,Rishadan Port etc it is not that good.

Fireblast:I never liked that Card.IMO this card sux balls.If it is countered it sux and if you hardcast it,it also sux so why use this if we have Shrapel Blast as finisher instead.

Magma Jet:No one likes it,I do.Manipulating top 2 Cards of your Libary fixes the biggest Problem Red Decks had:Beeing in Top Deck Mode or/and drawing Lategame non Wasteland/Stripmine Lands.

Pyrostatic Pillar:I don´t know what to think about this Card sometimes it is soo damn good sometimes it is soo damn useless.A fact is that it makes you even more deadly and that many decks in the format have to get rid off it or else they will die to deadly Lightning Bolts or w/e.
Sometimes it even stops your oppenent from playing anything espaciall if you played out multiple Pillars.Combined with Cruci/waste lock it is GG.

I won´t explain other Cards like Grim Lavamancer,Bolt,PoP,etc because they are obvious inclusion IMHO.
I will post a list if I feel that it is a good one.

1,What are your thoughts about Mono Red?
2,Can it be viable in todays meta?
3,What reasons are there to run this over FCG?
4,Should we play Pure Burn,Old Skewl Sligh or RDW?
5,Whats better Ankh or Maximum Fetchlands,Crucible or Blood Moon etc


Discuss!

regards,
AggroDude

Why would Mono Blue Fish be better than Gay/r against Control without REB and Lavamancers ?

My Advice to all of you is just to wait.
Either someone like PTW will come up with a new fish build or Tog and Co will come back which seems to be quite likely.

Against what kind of Machtup?

Oathing a Dreadnought= bad

I don´t care about Banned/Restricted List,I just wanna have a deck that kicks ass.
It could be some weird Necro it could also be some 4 Lotus Petal,4 Lions-Eye-Diomond,4 Ritual,Random Budget Accelaration,4 Minds Desire Combo.
And how about some 4 Tinker,Random Artifact Bombs,4 Chalice Deck?

So what is your Budget-Powerhouse Deck?



PS:Please don´t blame me for content,hey it´s Casual Forum.

regards,
AggroDude

Most people who say that Red Splash is needed because it is good against 1,Workshop Machtup(RnR) 2,Control Machtup(REB) 3,F/I(Aggro or Aggro Control/Aggro Combo).

If we find something similiar like these cards we could drop the red splash right?

We could replace RnR with H.Recall or Enegery Flux(yes I know you cant fetch it).
We could replace REB with random Duress,Misdirection in the board(I once tried 2 duress and 1 misd. main and sb 1 duress 2 misd. and it worked well for me).
We could also swap the Fire Ice with Smothers.Well it only kills one Creature but it can also be used to kill Morphs,River Boas and Togs.

The red choices(RnR,REB and F/I) seem a bit better than Smother,H.Recall etc but is the difference really worth to splash an extra color?

Dragon is a though machtup and Naturalize is good against Dragon.

It is powerfull indeed but you can´t really drain into it so I guess it wont see any play(but hey thats the same thing I sad about Cruncible )

How about playing Daze instead of Mana Leak?It helps you protecting your madness outlets and your worms.


Ps:Daze is also usefull in Lategame.

how about desert?

But Mind Twist is also good against 4CC mirror right?
And 4CC seems to be popular at the moment.

Don´t play Landstill without Mana Drain!
If I would proxy anything then I would proxy the 4xMana Drains and Ancestral!

Yes,but I am sure there are a lot of people who want how decks like WTF/r did at Vintage Worlds..

Ok the coverage is great but I would like to see ALL decks(not only T8).

But Germbus is also a colored mana hungry deck which plays colorless mana sources and it is far more succesfull then GAT at the moment.
I dont get it but Dryad+Cantrip =/= Win. If that would be true then GAT would probably be the best T1 deck.
Dryad+strip+cantrip=Win is much more common

My thought was that you play a dryad waste his mana base and play your 1-2 Cantrips and win.

You dont always win the game with Dryad dont you?

OK maybe this is question belongs to newbie forum but however why does no GAT verision run strip-wastelands.
Like Keeper it is a 4Color Deck deck.Is it because the Togs Casting Cost?Are Wastelands with Shamans a good possibility?

I may suggest thinking about a 4th Tog in GAT.
What was the main reason NW was played instead of AK?It was the Hulk Machtup.Hulk has a lot of trouble dealing with your dryads and if you run 4 Togs you can control your graveyard and protect yourself from enemy AK´s.

What do you think about that?Is the idea really that bad?

Why is Trinisphere better in Stax then in Mud?
Mud has a more stable mana base and more cards than have >3 CC ?

Since you run a lot of "cantrips" I consider that Impulse,together with all the other cantrips,is a real draw engine.
Impulse gets you other cantrip.
AK and NW only sometimes.

How about Fire/Ice?
Its a nice cantrip you can pitch it for MisD,FoW and tapping a tog is nice.It is also a removal card which I think is needed due the lack of Deed/other removal.

And is there a reason not to run AK and Impulse ?

Someone tested Impulse instead of Whispers?
It seems to be a very good alternative to Ak and NW.
Believe me if I say Impulse fits in GAT.It is the Card made for GAT.In my version where I run 4 Daze and 3 Misdirection the Impulse gets you a free counter 60% of the time.
any thoughts?

Wow I tested the italian deck and I can say its the best mud version I ever saw!
I played this deck and I found out that its is much more solid than welder mud in the current meta game.

I changed the sideboard a bit.I think that Jesters Cap is incredible in this deck even without the welders.You can remove the tog against hulk decks,the angels against keeper(I refuse to call it germbus) and against various combo decks you can remove the tendrils.Even against slaver you can remove the slavers!

ps:The missing card in WillyWild.. list must be the duplicant I guess.