So congratulations to LSV for winning the league. Well done!
The dominant deck of the finals was clearly their UW Landstill build and it seems to be positioned pretty well in the meta. It has shown that it can beat Shops and Dredge and should have a reasonable matchup against all the rest.

Too many win conditions in my eyes. Could just work with two Mentors and either Tinker/Bot or Vault/Key and fill up the slots with more Planeswalkers/Snapcaster/Preordains/Probes. In general I like a mix of Mentor builds with elements of Grixis control but would use just a few key elements of both sides.

Shops are dead;)

And here we are: http://magic.wizards.com/en/MTGO/articles/archive/vintage-super-league-season-4-decklists

Overall a very competitive deck selection with almost all actual top decks (beside Oath, Grixis Thiefes and BUG Fish maybe) and one interesting homebrew (Enligthened Kai).

Great, really great articles Wappla! I am playing and watching this format now for 20 years and never or just randomly read something with such deep understanding of the mechanics of the format.

That said, what are your thoughts on Balance? The card is tricky to play but also can be a very cost effective everything that can't be stopped by Misstep.

What about Merchant Scroll? The card is quite flexible, especially if you run a mix of counter spells. And one added Repeal can help against several problems: Dark Depths, Oath, flipped Delver and Jaces ... And it is not to bad to get your hands easier on Ancestral in a deck, that has plenty options to play it again out of the grave.

Just to help out

Brian Kelly
"Bant Gush."

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Seeker of the Way
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
1 Dragonlord Ojutai
2 Sylvan Library
1 Stony Silence
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Flusterstorm
4 Gush
1 Dig Through Time
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Fire // Ice
1 Repeal
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Time Walk
1 Ponder
2 Preordain
2 Gitaxian Probe
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Dack Fayden
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Library of Alexandria

SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Nature's Claim
SB: 1 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Sudden Shock
SB: 1 Dragonlord Dromoka
SB: 1 Aegis of the Gods
SB: 1 Stony Silence
SB: 1 Strip Mine

Let's wait and see. The speculation goes in many directions and a fallen Luke is the hotest rumour:

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/oct/22/star-wars-the-force-awakens-luke-skywalker-dark-side-mark-hamill-jedi

And did Luke change to the dark side? What do you think? 

Is this more important than using your mana under a Tangle Wire, getting factories, at least removing Sundering after cip ... all the things instants offer? Sorry for asking, I am really unsure on that.

I posted this in another thread, but it better belongs here. Will Ingot Chewer be the prefered single artifact removal for one mana or will we see a more diversified selection of one mana solutions? What do you think?

I think this is a very interesting point, even though not directly related to the topic: With the restriction of Chalice there seems to be no need anymore to include single artifact removals that cost more than one mana. Natures Claim, Swords to Plowshares, Steel Sabotage ... are probably the way to go. I even doubt, even though I am not sure, that Ingot Chewer, an all time favourite, still makes the cut. The possibility to remove artifacts instantly under a Tangle Wire (and respond to Forgemaster, activations of Factories ...) seems superior compared to avoiding Thorns and the possible two for one effect in the late game. So even Smelt could be better. I am very curious how these sideboard choices will develop. The abbility to remove Enchantments is another story. It will be highly related to the question how vulnerable your deck is to Stony Silence or random stuff like Moat. Otherwise you could also fight Oath as the most relevant Enchantment in the format with different, more adaptable choices like Graffidiggers Cage, Containment Priest, Engineered Explosives ...

I do agree that the deck needs a better sideboard plan against shops. I don't agree with the tone of your statement, Storminmagus. It sounds extremly arrogant. Nobody is waiting to to get your attention or interest. Please show a bit more respect to the great effort Joe is putting in these kind of articles.

I think I was not clear about that, sorry. I think that Time Vault fits perfectly in a Gush based Esper Mentor deck. You can have almost the same draw engine, you can rule the battlefield with Mentors and you can close the game quickly with Time Vault. Voltaic Key even interacts quite nice with Mana Crypt, Sol Ring and 1-2 Tops, that I would play in this sort of deck. You weaken your deck a bit against Shops by going for UWB instead of UWR, but you can still adjust your deck and sideboard to a state, where you have a sattisfying percentage of wins against Shops. And Vault-Key is pretty strong against Shops while diversifying your deck with such a strong win condition can help in many other matchups too. And it is not the worst thing in the world, to have the black tutors and Will in your deck. Just my impression after quite a bit testing.

I found Time Vault quite fitting as an alternative win condition in esper Mentor so far. You can still run the superiour draw engine, go with explosive Mentors and even go for direct combo kills. I dont think that Time Vault just fits into big mana grixis style lists. Vault is still very, very good against Shops and Dredge.

Hey Kevin, thanks for the insight. Did you change your decklist at any point since the last time?

I at least like the idea of playing more Tops, as there synergy with Mentor is great and a resolved Top can help to keep up with the card filtering abbility of the Delver style lists. I don't think that Counterbalance is the way to go to get more value out of the tops, but maybe some kind of Turbotez with white for Mentors could work.

I wouldn't agree with this. Serenity is terrific if it resolves and you stay alive for one turn. But Ingot Chewer is the best way in the Shops matchup to reach a point where you can play bombs like Serenity. I think, you can't compare Chewer and Serenity. Pure UW builds also need efficent answers like Chewer as well to support Serenity. There are cards that fulfill this role like Explosives, StP or Steel Sabotage, but they are not as good as Chewer in what it is doing against Shops.

I remember this time very good and I know that Psychatog was dominating the battlefield and in addition to that just outdrawing everything . So the analogy is very helpful for me to imagine until I come to my own deeper testing. Thanks for the detailed reply.

Let's focus on the nice deck innovations. I for example have a question on the UWR Mentos lists. At first look they seem to be very similar to the established Delver lists, except that they just play Mentor as a threat instead of 3 Delver and 4 Pyromancers. Delver didn't trigger Pyromancer as well so what makes him still good in the Delver lists and not in the Mentor ones. I see, that one Monk token alone can be a serious threat, but aren't these lists end up digging for Mentor and then trying to protect him too often. Even Oath doesn't focus on Oath alone anymore and tries to diversify it's threat density with Show and Tell and/or Vault + Key. Wouldn't it be an option to play something like 2 Delver, 4 Mentor or 2 Pyro and 4 Mentor to diversify a bit. Or maybe even something like 3 Delver, 2 Pyro, 3 Mentor to have a threat occur on every point of the curve? Or is it all about playing the Mentor lists a different way but with the same card stock, so more controlish and then kill very quickly. Just asking.

The videos are still great to watch, but I don't agree that this would be a more healthy open format. I count 4 Delver, 2 Dredge, 2 Belcher and 2 Gush Combo. Not very open, especially the Delver mirrors remind me a lot of Legacy and I am missing broken Vintage moves in these kind of games a lot. And as much I hate it to play against Shops: At least they keep in check, that people don't play too greedy manabases. Otherwise we will face a world with more and more cantrips.

True and I would never say that Remora is the tool to beat Delver. But it could be maybe part of a build that has effective weapons against it and it could so help to protect them or to draw into them (effective mass removal or cheap combo parts for example). And it is quite good against Oath and any kind of Dig-Gush-Build too. 

Mystic Remora could do some work. They could actually help to draw your removal, whatever it might be.

In my opinion Tinker + robot together with Confidant is totally fine, especially in a deck that can find Divining Top so easily with Trinkets. But it also has been in other builds like Grixis control. The robot flip does happen from time to time but very rarely and doesn't always lead to direct death. You are right, that Vault and Key offer you many easy kills but so does Tinker, which is just a single card.

I totally agree  that Confidant is not so good in the Delver matchup, even though he can still block something or kill your opponent after clearing the board (the VSL matchup between Bob Maher and Rich Shay was such an example even though things went pretty ideal for Bob). But the life loss sums up probably too quickly against such an aggressive deck. But what I don't understand is, why peoply at other places say that Confidant has become worse because of the higher amount of played removal. This might be true for decks which totally rely on little beaters but not for these kind of control-combo-aggro decks. Isn't it so that decks that play more removal play less ways to interact with your also critical instants and sorcerys like Ancestral, Walk, Will and Tinker? This is one thing I always liked about decks like Esper Bomberman or Grixis Control: You can switch roles and strategies easily even during one match.

I like Tinker as an alternative combo kill so far. While Vault has synergies with Trinket, Salvagers has with Tinker. And what I especially like about Tinker instead of Vault-Key is that it leaves you much less vulernable to Null Rod. The robot, lets say Sphinx, is also immune to Decay (and Dack) and can sometimes be cast with Salvagers and Lotus.


This thread imo belongs in the Miscellaneous category. In this thread, we discuss decks with several aggro, control and combo aspects (Bomberman for example), but very rarely real Null Rod decks.

And on topic: What do you think is the best solution in this color combination against heavy Null Rod uses? I like Devout Witness so far the most, as it is usefull against Shops as well and the body can serve as a blocker. It also can be cast with Cavern of Souls.

Congrats too.

I agree that Esper Bomerman with Caverns is in a kind of okay position to fight the Cruise menace. Nihil and Explosives are quite usefull against it and in the same time synergistic with Salvagers. Balance can help sometimes too and Swords to Plowshares is fine as a single removal against Delver as it doesn't fill their graveyard. You could even try out something like Zealous Persecution (even though it doesn't kill a flipped Delver) and Caverns helps to get through your combo and beat parts. Esper filled with enough Trinkets and Salvagers and 2 Spellbombs and 2 Explosives could have some sort of game against the deck but for sure leaves you quite vulnerable against Null Rod, which somehow has to be solved (Spell Snare, Witch or Disenchant/Steel Sabotage maindeck). Another option, which you played in your sideboard too, is the Sphinx, even though it is pretty slow. You could even quite reliable hardcast it in the late game in this deck - beside playing it with Salvagers/Lotus.

Thanks for the input and I am also kind of curious about your landbase. I would guess that you played three Caverns 

But didn't plenty decks do pretty fine by just playing Chewers and Bolts out of the board against Shops?

I like Esper in the moment as the combination for control-combo and play one Auriok Salvagers and a Nihil Spellbomb over Vault and Key, paired with a couple of Trinkets. The Auriok combo is much less explosive than Vault and Key but less vulnerable to Decay and offers more flexible uses. And you can still play Tinker as your go to card for quick kills.

The BUG Fish has a lot of Grixis control

I revitalized this thread because a similar four colour Gush control deck build by Louis Scott-Vargas has attained some good results recently. It might show how this deck type can compete in the current meta. LCV decided to use Young Pyromancer and Empty the Warrens as his kill conditions over lets say Vault Key and Tinker-Blightsteel. This can help against Dack Fayden and Abrupt Decay but is a bit weaker against Shops and Dredge where Vault-Key shines. He build the deck very controlish with lots of lands and removal and less digging cantrips than Stevens more combo orientated Gush-Pyromancer build for example.

I think the list looks very promising with lots of options to improve for different metas. Here is the current version:

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Young Pyromancer
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Gifts Ungiven
4 Gush
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Mana Drain
2 Mental Misstep
2 Repeal
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Fastbond
2 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island

1 Lightning Bolt
1 Mental Misstep
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Ingot Chewer
1 Mountain
1 Nature's Claim
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Yixlid Jailer

LSV has finished 5:0 and 3:2 with it a the MTGO Vintage-Champ-Qualifiers:

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/vintage-champ-qual-2014-08-26
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/vintage-champ-qual-2014-08-27-0

He also discusses and plays the list on video:

http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/channel-lsv-vintage-champs-qualifier-with-pyromancer/