I fell flattered, thanks a lot.

Regarding to the deck. I have not all the time I' d want to test the decks this means I cannot be 100% (or 90-ish%) sure of what I' m saying but what I tested against blue control was that the bomb density was enough to go through the counter walls. Nevertheless Mental misstep is very annoying indeed, though having the Show and tell plan kind of solves that. However trying to solve some of this problems I' ve also started to test another list (I ' testing both when I have time) which is very similar but it relies on gush bond engine (this solves, in a way, the problem vaughnbros stated of the staticity of the deck for not playing cantrips, but also loses some early raw power. As I really dunno what to say whether is better or not I'll post the list here for those of you who want to test it and tell the results.

TTGS ("The Tropical Griselbrand Storm")

Main deck 60

The Mana (24)

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus

4 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant catcombs

The Bussiness (20)

1 Fastbond

3 Show and Tell

3 Griselbrand
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain

1 Mind's Desire
2 Tendrils of Agony

1 Yawgmoth's Will

1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Imperial Seal
1 Merchant Scroll

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Ancestral Recall

The Protection (7)

4 Force of Will
3 Flusterstorm

The Utility (9)

4 Gush
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Time Walk

Sideboard 15

4 Leyline of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
2 Nature's Claim
2 Trygon Predator
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Forest
1 Dismember
1 Massacre

I know this list is not ritual oriented, but as it is a pure combo deck I guess this is the correct section to post.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

Well as far as I tested I had no consistency problems, at least not more than with a regular TPS build, in fact having higher threat density makes the deck top deck a lot better. Plus I really dunno what to take out for extra manipulation. However I also decided to keep the cantrips to the minimum just because the meta is filled with Missteps (and to lesser extent flusters) which make cantrip relying decks kinda crappy, IMHO.


@mmcgeach: Strix is cool, but it has some problems in an storm build. When your goal is to playa bunch of spells and kill your opponents you are not only worried about the MUD player hitting you and this is where Strix excels, nevertheless it can buy some time which is not horrible but is far better in a controlish build here you have more permanent solutions to the permanents they play; here we have to rely on Hurkyl's to bounce the mass and kill in the following turn or make a setup good enough so we can hurkyl again in the next 1 or 2 turns for the real kill. This is wy I can' t play strip. There is another subtle reason why strip is not good in storm, this is that it has the same exact casting cost as the card we need to resolve for the winning (which as I said is Hurkyl' s Recall) this means that Chalice @ 2 closes the game almost completely. HEnce I decided to play full set of Sabotages that has CC1, which at least is different than the Hurkul' s cost so I can bounce the chalice and play the bomb for the win. I know rebuild could also be an option (since it has a CC3) but it may be simply to cost to be able to play in on time.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

The demon is on hype, that is true. It has broken the legacy eviroment (not that he is not beatable, but he is a hard contender indeed), and now people (me among those people) is trying to bring him to Vintage. I0 ve seen, and tried, lots of incarnations of Griselbrand decks (Ritual Oath, renovator, Griselbrand-non-ritual oath, ...). And I really can't say which one is the best, if there is any incarnation that stands out, each has strengths and weaknesses, but the following is the one I like the most.

TPGS ("The Perfect Griselbrand Storm", I dunno if it is an appropriate name but it fits with the philosophy of the deck)

Main deck 60

The Mana (30)

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Black Lotus

4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Ritual

3 Underground Sea
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Island
2 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs

The Bussiness (18)

3 Show and Tell

3 Griselbrand
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain

1 Necropotence

1 Mind's Desire
2 Tendrils of Agony

1 Yawgmoth's Will

1 Mystical Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Ancestral Recall

The Protection (7)

4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize

The Utility (5)

1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Time Walk

Sideboard 15

4 Leyline of the Void
2 Yixlid Jailer
4 Steel Sabotage
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Island
1 Dismember
1 Massacre

The reasons why I like it over Oath-oriented Griselbrand decks (ritual or non-ritual):

-Oath decks usually have some flaws I really dislike:
1-Too many slots for their plan which may turn into bad top decks or dead draws: every single oath deck uses 8 slots for Oath+Orchard and 2-3 Big fatties (there are some special oath decks that use 0-1 creatures, but is not the norm). This is even worse if they have alternative game plans (read 3).
2-They have a complicated manabase: their necessity of playing Orchards makes the mana baseless flexible than other blue decks, they have to play fewer fetch lands or fewer basic lands or fewer duals. The Hardest point IMHO is that they play fewer basic lands normally.
3-They either have an streamlined plan or 2 semisinergic (or non-sinergic at all) plans:  for instance Tyrant Oath use the Gush Package (minimal is 4x Gush + Fastbond, and sometimes Regrowth + Merchant Scroll + some storm win condition, sometimes cards like Flash of Insight and/or Memory' s Journey), Some other Oaths use Tezz/Vault package (1-2 Tezzeret, Vault + Key, Tinker), Demon oath has Vault+Key+Memory's Journey. Some other oath decks play cards to make the Creatrure draws not-so-dead, some use cards like Thirst for knowledge so they can filter, some use Scroll Rack, and most use Jace,TMS (while I think Jace is bonkers, I also think that plansewalkers has an strange place in Oath build, simply because there are games where you must use Orchards to keep playing and this may make their life quite difficult).
4-Oath's don't closes the game the same turn they resolve the Oath (only with Time walk or Vault/Key, but if you already have vault/key Oath is quite irrelevant), and most Oaths don't even close the turn they activate the Oath, however the game usually is very favorable once Oath has been resolved (specially in Griselbrand Oath or Demon Oath, to less extent).

These are somehow solved in the TPS-ish shell:

1-Less dead draws (the only card that needs another specific one to be effective is Show and Tell.
2-Stronger Mana base: being UB allows to play lots of basic lands.
3-The game plans are sineric: the straight storm plan is enchanted by the Show and tell plan, and the show and tell plan wins on its own and is also enhanced by the storm plan (drawing a bunch is always synergic with the Strom Mechanic).
4- Once we go off is to finish the game, with either plan the goal is to close as soon as we play it.

I also prefer it over the reanimator deck because it is faster, closes the game earlier, have more business and We don't need to play with the graveyard.

Nevertheless I know the TPS-ish build has some inherent flaws, I' m not saying is perfect:

-Oath has the quick mana+mox--> Oath plan which is huge against MUD or aggro-hate decks. TPS, on the other hand, may have more difficulties handling this (but I think the Griselbrand plan helps quite a bit with this).
-Not having access to Green or Red makes the sideboard not as strong as the Oath's sideboard may be, or any other deck with those colors. Not having access to Ingot Chewer, Nature's claim, Trygon Pedator, Ancient Grudge... hurst, basically UB doesn't have good Artifact/Enchantment removal.

I just posted for discussion, not saying is better than other Gris decks (just saying it' s not worse), but as far as I tested it's working nice. Hope you like and post some comments.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

If only it had flash... but doesn' t seem it can fit.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

It seems that I arrived a little late to the party, but just read the article fewa hours ago, with tat said let' s be on-topic...

First of all congrats, once again, for your great job with the article, and though I may agree with you that vintage have not real speed issues (after reading this whole discussion I should also say that Dredge is not a necessary Evil, because it is not an evil indeed, and the metagame is not stagnant but maybe stuck in a big bunch of staples, both cards and strategies, but this is maybe due to the facter that some cards are just too powerful to be ignored), I may say that something is wrong in this “Super New Golden Era”.

Since I know of MtG the whole community agreed that vintage was settled on 4 columns, and each column should be represented in a similar percentage in a HEALTHY metagame (as you all may know those columns are: Workshop, Drain/Force of Will, Null Rod and Dark Ritual, maybe for the modern Vintage we should add the 5th being Bazaar). Current metagame objectively lacks of 2 of those Pillars, sure some decks with dark ritual, eventually, make good results, or in occasions Null Rod Decks (and with Null Rod deck I mean fish-like, MUD-Rod are in the Workshop Pillar) are seen in tops, but the truth is that their success ratio is, BY FAR, lower than the one of the FoW and Workshop (and now MUD) pillars.

There is no clear way to solve this, because, due to its nature, those decks have many dificulties to live in a metagame of Golems, Remoras, Gush, Missteps, Mindbreak Traps, Flusterstorms, Jaces, Tinker (into Colossus specially), Dismember, … But it seems pretty obvious that the foundations of vintage have changed, and hence the diversity is not as much as you are describing, and this is because vintage modern metagme is being held by only 3 pillars.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

Necro is of course an option, though is not a sorcery plus with all the immolating cantrips the deck plays a not so early Necro can be quite narrow.

I' ve thought on Enlightened, but in a list with Bargain and Necro, and maybe Gush-Bond, white also provides some nice techs such as orim's chant (if I play Gush-Bond Xnatid seems superior, because it can be played comfortably under a resolved Remora) or Serenity (this is very good specially on a light on No solo moxen list). Though I try by all meanings keeping the deck in the minor number of spalshes as possible for mana consistency, this is not only to have natural resistance to mana denial but also to be able to play every spell at every time since the very early game.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

Gush is not for standard piles, but an option when you have a counter/duress war and became tap out, then it depends n how much storm you need but you can make somehting like:

Gush
Mana (ritual, lotus..)
Tendris
X
X

OR

Gush
mana (ritual, lotus)
Yawgmoth's will
Tandrils
X

(With the second one I asume you have a probe and a mana source or the possibility to replay the gush)

Otherwise any other standard pile made out of gush can be done with simplty ancestral.

For isntance:

Ritual/Lotus + Doomsday + Probe (2 lands, one untapped)

Ancestral
Petal
Lotus
Will
ToA

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

TBH I played a lot of FIsh and MUD with Storm Combo, but not with this specific build, ao I can't give you any tested info about it (I played, but very few to take conclusions). Though with fisha always happens the same you can just overrun them with the raw power of the cards you play, even if they have a clock you normally get there faster (no matter how many life you waste, normallly in this kind of decks the more life you waste the nearest to victory you are...)

Serracollector: uf! If I see this Praetor's thing happening I'll re think about the second tendrils again, though I 've not suffered the same, and since I play no D7(apecially Jar), nor Mind's Desire, neither Necro/Bargain, I feel comfortable with my Single ToA + Colossus.

About therapy, Yes! I know they are a beast, in fact I played this shell last week for testing (main deck 4x Duress +2x Cabal therapy, therapy is gorgeous if played wtih duress and Probe, and confi in the side), but FoW seemed again too necessary so you can avoid unfair wins from the top. They main reason why I tried CT is because they are perfect to hit multiple Mindbreak traps stuck in my opponent's hand.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-
Greetings,

Iñaki.-

Hi guys I' ve made some "insane" twists with the list. They are moved towards faster developement of your game. show what I did and discuss after:

"Tutor Long"

Maindeck 60

4x Polluted Delta
1x Flooded Strand
1x Verdant Catacombs
3x Underground sea
1x Island
1x Swamp

4x Moxen (2 on color mandatory and 2 extra)
1x Blak Lotus
1x lotus Petal

4x Dark ritual
3x Cabal Ritual

4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Street Wraith

1x Gush
1x Brainstorm
1x Ancestral Recall

3x Personal Tutor
2x Grim Tutor
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
1x Mystical Tutor

1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Blightsteel Colossus

1x Time Walk
1x Tinker
1x Doomsday
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Timetwister

4x Force of Will
3x Duress

1x Chain of Vapor
1x Hurkyl's Recall

As you can see is a different approach for the same purppose.

The main differences:

Mana base: is lighter than it used to be, but this is according the changes of the whole deck, as you can see the CMC has been lowered a lot and no is color intensive, because of this extra moxen and Crypt/Ring were usless most of the time. I may agree that maybe another last land (one extra underground) maybe added in substitution of a single Street Wraith (but street wraith allows awesome plays that gitaxian didn0tl, explain later).

The bombs: after playign a lot of TPS and standard Long bomb package (Necro, Bargain, Desire, ...) I felt that most of them where too random, one of the reasons that enfrced me to play 2x Tendrils, by focusing the deck and playing the bombs I' ve chosen makes the going off turn a lot more deterministic and is almost impossible to fizzle (see that timetwister is not here to be played blindly but to make some interesting Doomsday piles with it, specially pass the turn piles).Note that the bombs are sorcery, all of them, so Personal Tutor can fetch them. The bombs of Choice are:

-Tinker: playing 3 Personal tutor seemed stupid not to play it. With the fetching power of the deck is not difficult to set the Tinker + Tinwalk trick to make an easy win.

-Yawgmoth Will: I' m afraid tht no explanation is needed for the most powerful time ever printed in MtG.

-Doomsday: you can think of it as another top tutor only that more powerful, it leads to incredibly fast kills (t1 kill is not strange with doomsday), and it provides some flexible piles to fight through hate (you can add councers or spot removal to deal with the hate pieces).

-Timetwister: as always a nice panic button, but here it shines a little bit more so it can make nice pass the turn piles or can generate extra storm in some random in turn pile if needed. You can go infinite with doomsday and Twsiter (well not infinite because you lose lifes at every loop, but I guess taht if I think of it a little ore deeply I could find a pile using ToA in the middle of it for infinite loops, though I don't know it yet).

The addition of Gush is a must also for the doomsday piles, so is not as random as it seems.

On personal Tutor: as I said before and you could figure out this card is extremely good in this build, not only because it fetches the bombs, but also can go for protection (duress) or the Tendrils. All this for the ridiculous amount of 1 blue mana!.

Sideboard 15:

3x Mental Misstep
3x Dark Confidant
3x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Rebuild
1x Island
1x Swamp
1x Chain of Vapor
2x Yixlid Jailer

-Mental Misstep: stops every single side hate hcard that can bother us. I'll make an small list of the relevant card misstep stops for free: Duress/Thoughtseize, Nihil Spellbomb, Mystic Remora, Pyroblast/Red elemental blast, Dispel, Spell Pierce, ... and a lot more. It also deals with some of the metagame staple power cards: Ancestral recall,  Mystical/Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, Fastbond, Sensei's Divining Top, Voltaic Key, Swords to Plowshares (to protect the colossus and Confidants), all the anti hate Dredge cards,... And once again its cost is ridiculous.

-Dark Confidant: this guy shines in all the pairings that are slower than us. He is specially good against remora decks and blue non-gush control decks. Sometimes you may side him in aswell against fish aswell (specially against blue fish so you win them but simply overdrawing, against non-blue fish he is worst, well not worst but not needed since you will have no problem to win by resolving any of your anti hate cards without fear to be countered).

-The anit MUD package: you all can guess why I play this

-Chain of vapor: this slot is discussed with Slaughter Pact. Wile the latter is very strong combined with Doomsday, the foremr is far more flexible and also helps in the remora match-up (reason that made me decide for it). I' ve also thought on Virtue's Ruin because it's a sorcery and deals with every single hate-bear in the format.

-Yixlid Jailer: I have very few room for dredge and because of this I decided to play the hardest hate card that can be plyed in a number lower than  a playset (I wish I had room for 4x Leylines of the Void which are specially good with Missteps in the board, but I haven't). I prefer him over Tormod's effects because he is permanent and the oppoenent cannot play arround him, he needs to get rid of him. And I prefer it over the Needle because the needle is the softest hate agaisnt dredge (though it is also more versatile).

What do you think of this new approach?

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

It seems like most of you agree with 12 lands + 1 single ToA.

Well, I don't know but playing with 12 lands seems a lot, I mean I' ve been playing TPS wiht this shell in the past and I lost lots of games just for "flooding", this is why I prefer to run them in the side so I can use them only in the pairing I need them (here in barcelona we have lots of fish, but also lots of blue decks, and not so many MUD, Fish is not a bad Pairing because the raw Power of the deck, you can outmaneuver them with the speed, blue decks do not touch my mana base, normally, and against MUD I can side the land pack), the thing is taht testing told me that 11 lands seems good adding 3 when siding if needed.

About the ToA I tested it, but I lost some games for running only one, specially games when I resolved an early necro that didn't brought me enough bussiness for the first 10 cards or so. I think 2nd ToA gives too much flexibility, it is also very good when you play Mind's desire or Bargain, and it seems even more important if I play the Confidant side (in fact with the confidant side I will for sure play 2, otherwise I may though on it...).

Paul, echoing is in there to be added against remoras and aggro, along with confidants. I prefer it over CoV so they can 't bounce Bob back.

Personalbackfire, it seems that your decklist is more TPSish, which means that tries to set up a little and go off more carefully than the deck I posted. for a deck like that I definitely prefer Preordain, but not for a more "pure" long deck (though I know the differences are very light, there are still some).

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

When I started to play vintage I decided to buy a full set of Oath of Druids just because they seemed a good option for the deck I played (as sideboard tech) TPS. After I tried to build different Oath decks just to take profit from the buy and didn't find a build that fitted my playstyle, it seemd that all Oath Builds are too controllish and play a very static game or that they have some cards that must play with very bad sinergy or making very bad top decks. Then Mr. Ellias ennlightened me offering the idea of making an Oath reanimator Hybrid, but still didn't like it.

A little after, when New Phyrexia was released I fell in love with a blue card. Gitaian Probe (maybe too much), and with it I found a build that fitted my playstyle and runs a full set of Oath. This is the conclusion:

Main deck 60

4x Forbidden Orchard
2x Undeground Sea
2x Polluted Delta
2x Misty Rainforest
1x Verdant Catacombs
1x Island
1x Swamp
1x Tropical Island


5x Moxen
1x Black Lotus
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt
1x Lotus Petal

4x Force of Will
2x Misdirection

3x Gitaxian Probe
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Brainstorm
1x Thirst for Knowledge

1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Merchant Scroll (can be Personal Tutor)

1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
1x Stormtide Leviathan
1x Inkwell Leviathan
1x Sphinx of the Steel Wind

4x Oath of Druids
4x Entomb
2x Reanimate
2x Exhume
1x Tinker
1x Show and Tell

1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Time Walk

Sidebaord 15

4x Thoughtseize
2x Pithing Needle
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Volcanic Island
1x Forest
1x Dragon Breath (maybe should add a second one, but what to cut... maybe 1x Seize?)
1x Blightsteel Colossus
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Thorn
2x Nihil Spellbomb

The side is to change into Dragon Breath Oath because with new Phyrexian Metamorph I think that is the best plan an Oath deck has against MUD.

Gitaxian Probe gives you great consistancy so you can play a bomb early (if combined with the top Tutors).

The creature base is quite simple, every sinlg creature in the main deck can attack under Stormtide Leviathan effect (main reason why I don't play Colossus main deck, also because he cannot be reanimated). The four monsters try to cover all the metagame (well everything but MUD, just because there is no creature dedicated to beat it, Terastodon is not what he used to be when Phyrexian metamorphed...., and the other option being Emrakul cannot be reanimated so seems a little antisinergic in the with the maindeck).

What I really like about this build is that it does no longer wait in a controllish position, like regular Oath build do, but it is more proactive playing bombs since the begining of the game.

I have to say that GP maybe is not a superstar in this deck (as it can be in a Long deck) but I wanted to give it a try for its sinergy with the top dekc tutors. IT also gives very valuable information, and can be pitched to FoW or Misdi (I'm only playing 19 blue cards which is quite low for a 6 Pitch card deck).

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

Thanks for the early answer.

It is low on lands I know but this sacrifice seems that have to be done in order to overrun other "comboish" decks (specially Gush, but also those Turbotezz growing in pooularity). I wanted to keep it tight so I can side them in the second game if needed against heavy denial decks like MUD or some kind of Rod Fish, but the latter are not that hard to deal with, and even easier with the chain of vapor side version).

Against Dredge the idea is to race them. is not that difficult, truly, maybe I0m too confident on that but as far as I played a single Fow/misstep do the job pretty efficiently. Nevertheless having more side slots will make my dredge pairing better, but I'm not sure if I do have to care about it, this deck goes off 1st second turn comfortably if unmolested.

Thoughtseize is a pain combined with Probe and pain tutors, I tested them but didn't make a big difference since normally they take care of irrelevant cards, or cards that I can deal with later, and the 2 life hurts as I said.

Gitaxian Probe is rock and roll, but in long version not in the TPS-ish ones where I think Preordain is by far better. GP makes Top tutors incredibly powerful, and maybe you are right about Personal Tutor (another cheap Will tutor seems good, the only problem is taht it cannot be played off rituals, which is the weakes point of the deck, the blue mana, this is why preordain didn0t make the cut, even ponder hurts a lot and this is why I asked for opinions about Thirst for knowledge and the main reason is being INSTANT).

About the manabase, as said in the original post I think it will stay like this:

Lands 11

3x Undegrounbd sea
1x Island
1x Swamp
4x Polluted Delta
1x Blue Fetch
1x Tolarian Academy

Cutting 1x Duress (going to the side maybe, replacing an Island)

SO you prefer the Bobby side... don't you think Chain of Vapor is more flexible and has better sinergy with the whole deck; I mean that Bob is the nuts if you play it first turn (which is not difficult) or maybe second, beyond that he is a crappy topdeck and horrible if going off with D7, Necro or Bargain. Maybe I' m wrong... Also the CoV allows me to add the missteps which seems more than decent against a very broad field of decks. Despite I'm defending the CoV side I'm not sure, by now, which to play (maybe if you have told me that the CoV side was better I' d argumentet the opposite, but this is not to neglect your opiniion but to open a reasonable debate so we can find which one can be better for the build).

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

New Phyrexia left us all a collection of jewels for vintage, one of those jewels as some already know, is Gitaxian Probe. I' ve been always a huge fan of the storm archetype and since I saw this card just thought that something useful can be done, and the archetype that can take better profit from it is IMO the Long decks. With this in mind I built a deck to be played and tested during the BoM 5 vintage trial, and for being a deck in the very beta stages I m not disatisfied, neither super satisfied with the performace (4-2 scoop, losing to MUD as expected and Oath, not so expected but a trap from a JAR bought him the game).

Here I'll post my two versions of the deck "4C Gitaxian Long" and "U/B Gitaxian Long", though I think the latter will be better for orur metagame, the former has some pieces that are extremely useful, but the crappy mana base make it almost unplayable in the Power MUD metagame. In BoM I tried the 4C version


"Gitaxian Long 4C"


Mana (27)

4x City of Brass
4x Forbidden Orchard
1x Gemstone Mine
1x Tolarian Academy

1x Black Lotus
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring
1x Lotus Petal
5x Moxen

4x Dark Ritual
3x Cabal Ritual

Protection (4)

4x Force of Will

Cantrips & Co. (8)

4x Gitaxian Probe
1x Time Walk
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Ponder
1x Brainstorm

Bounce (2)

1x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Chain of Vapor

Tutor (6)

1x Mystical Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Grim Tutor
1x Praetor's Grasp (or maybe the second Grim Tutor)

Bussiness (10)

1x Necropotence
1x Yawgmoth's Bargain
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Wheel of Fortune
1x Memory Jar
1x Tinker
1x TimeTwister
1x Windfall
1x Gifts Ungiven
1x Mind's Desire

WinCon (2)

2x Tendrils of Agony
1x Blightsteel Colossus (it should be the 11th land or a mana producer, Colossus was very underwhelming in the go off turn, and not a real solution with the new Metamoprph everywhere)

Sideboard 15

3x Gemstone Mine
4x Oath of Druids
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Thorn
1x Dragon Breath
1x Hurkyl's Recall
4x Xantid Swarm
1x Pithing Needle (there should be a second one...)

"Gitaxian Long UB"


Mana (27)

4x Polluted Delta
3x Underground Sea
1x Island
1x Swamp
1x Tolarian Academy

1x Black Lotus
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring
1x Lotus Petal
5x Moxen

4x Dark Ritual
3x Cabal Ritual

Protection (6)

4x Force of Will
2x Duress

Cantrips & Co. (8)

4x Gitaxian Probe
1x Time Walk
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Ponder
1x Brainstorm

Bounce (2)

1x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Chain of Vapor

Tutor (6)

1x Mystical Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Imperial Seal
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Grim Tutor
1x Praetor's Grasp (or a second Grim Tutor)


Bussiness (9)

1x Necropotence
1x Yawgmoth's Bargain
1x Yawgmoth's Will
1x Memory Jar
1x Tinker
1x TimeTwister
1x Windfall
1x Gifts Ungiven
1x Mind's Desire

WinCon (2)

2x Tendrils of Agony

I have 2 sideboards to be tested:

A - Sideboard 15

2x Island
2x Swamp
3x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Rebuild
2x Steel Sabotage
3xChain of Vapor
2x Mental Misstep (against remoras, basically)


B - Sideboard 15

2x Island
2x Swamp
3x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Rebuild
2x Steel Sabotage
4x Dark Confidant
1x Echoing truth

The 2 sideboards are 2 different approaches to beat remoras, I' m not sure which will be more efficient, I'll be glad if the old long players (Mastriano, for instance) can help me deciding this.

I feel like the deck is lacking at least one extra mana surce this is why I thought to do loke this:

Main deck:

-1x Duress

+1x Blue Fetchland

Either sidebord:

-1x Island

+1x Duress

I know mst may think that a TPS approach can be better to defeat MUD, but for my expirience with TPS it seems that TPS has some problems defeating Gush, and this is because they have a better counterwall, better drawing engine and similar Raw Power to us, while Long is faster and this gives it the edge against Gush. In the end I decided to make it more Longish just because I was cutting one of the 3 bad match ups (TPS: Remora, MUD, Gush against Long: Remora, MUD)

Also though on Misdirection instead of Duress but Misdirection is quite awful against Mindbreaktrap, and Duress just does the dirty job.

Finally do you think it would be a good idea to change Ponder with a Thirst for Knowledge to have a second "brainstorm effect" ?

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

I think we all agree that Imperial "fate"seal is not what it used to be since J,TMS was printed. Nevertheless is increbidle in fastbond oriented decks.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

This is only true when you have two useless cards in hand, there are, not few, times when you brainstorm and prefer not to lose on of the cards you are hiding. But I agree this is quite useful, specially, as you said in legacy (for instance in my Spiral Tide Legacy build Preordain works incredibly well with brainstorm, doing a similar function as Impulse does in the Solidarity builds.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

I have to second exactly what Brassman said, poder and Preordain are okay cards, but I think preordain must still be played at least in sinergy with Gush for consisntancy matters (brainstorm will be obv. better, but we have only 1 of them).

And as Brassman said, ponder is a lot better when all you are looking for is a given card (for insntance the second land drop, or the piece of pretection, ...), while preordain shines in different situations, when your only worry is to sculpt a better hand to keep playing.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

I have some more Input for the thread...

The last few days I' ve been testing Almost blue quite a lot with MWS and arrived to 2 "final" lists that seem to be quite optimal, at least for my playstyle, one is more combo oriented (which is the one I feel more confortable since I 'm the kind of player that enjoys adding pressure) it's weaker in an aggro enviroment because it's not packing the tinker --> bot plan and have lesser disruption and no repeals, the latter is more controllish having more counter magic, the colossus, and some repeals to establish confortably on the board. I cannot say one list is better than the other, I' m afraid it depends of the metagame you'll face.

"Almost Blue"

Maindeck 60

2x Misty Rainforest
2x Polluted Delta
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Flooded Strand
3x Island
3x Underground sea
2x Tropical Island
1x Tolarian Academy

5x Mox
1x Black Lotus
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt
1x Lotus Petal
1x Nihil Spell bomb

2x Brain Freeze

4x Preordain
4x Gush
1x Ponder
1x Brainstorm
1x Ancestral Recall

1x Chain of Vapor
1x Hurkyl's Recall

4x Force of Will
3x Mana Drain

1x Mind's Desire
1x Future Sight
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Gifts Ungiven
1x Timetwister
1x Time Walk

1x Mystical Tutor
1x Merchant Scroll

1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will

1x Fastbond
1x Regrowth

Sideboard 15

3x Duress
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Trygon Predator
2x Hurkyl's Recall
2x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Pithing Needle
1x Echoing Truth
1x Mindbreak Trap

"Almost Tinker"

Maindeck 60

2x Misty Rainforest
2x Polluted Delta
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Flooded Strand
3x Island
3x Underground sea
2x Tropical Island
1x Library of Alexandria

4x Mox (only 1 off-color)
1x Black Lotus
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt
1x Lotus Petal

1x Blightsteel Colossus

1x Brain Freeze

4x Preordain
4x Gush
1x Ponder
1x Brainstorm
1x Ancestral Recall

2x Repeal
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Hurkyl's Recall

4x Force of Will
3x Mana Drain
1x Misdirection
1x Mindbreak Trap

1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Gifts Ungiven
1x Tinker
1x Time Walk

1x Mystical Tutor
1x Merchant Scroll

1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will

1x Fastbond
1x Regrowth

Sideboard 15

3x Duress
4x Tarmogoyf
2x Trygon Predator
2x Hurkyl's Recall
3x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Pithing Needle
1x Echoing Truth

I know both may seem very similar but the game plan is very different, at least main deck. The sideboard is so similar because both have problems with the same kind of decks so this appeared to be quite optimal against those (Mud/Fish...).

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

There is a good reason for this the strongest players in our metagame are combo control lovers.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

In a local forum a mate suggested to add grapshot to the main deck, while I know it may be a little off-topic in the almost blue thread, the base of the deck is more or less the same. The idea is to add red as 4th splash color for 2x Fire/Ice main deck and 1x Grapeshot, substituing them for regrowth, 1x Brain freeze (or may be both, but I lke freeze so much here) and another random card, making the Null Rod match a lot easier and having access to Chewr and pyroblast as side cards. What do you think?

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

There are Workshops, this is why the side is oriented the way it is... I' m not sure about Inkwell, I' d have played Myr battlesphere over Leviathan.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

Last Saturday's event (1st tournament of this year's LCV season), in Barcelona, 65 players, won by almost Blue. This is the list:


1st - Pau Cantero - Almost Blue

Maindeck:

3 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
3 Island
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy

1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

1 Nihil Spellbomb

1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Rebuild

4 Force of Will
3 Mana Drain
3 Spell Pierce
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Misdirection

2 Brain Freeze

4 Gush
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Ponder
1 Brainstorm
1 Time Walk

1 Timetwister
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Mind's Desire

1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mystical Tutor

1 Regrowth
1 Fastbond

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Sideboard:

4 Tarmogoyf
2 Nature's Claim
2 Pithing Needle
1 Forest
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Tinker
1 Darkblast
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Nihil Spellbomb

Link for reference: http://www.eternalcatala.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=648

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

I have to say that I already play GU, it' s been only a typing mistake, solved.

I feel that Regrowth is very important in Gush bond in order to recur gush, it works pretty similar to merchant scroll once you are going off, if also can lead broken plays like multiple ancestrals or so. Thirst? sure? I mean the deck packs only 10 artifacts which is not that much, I ve tried it but have to cut it for that reason. I ve also tested the mana vault but I m playing very few high cost spells and this is why I cut it.

I may try to add a Jace/Nihil instead of Misdirection.

Greetings, and thanks,

Iñaki.-

Repeal is a must in order to make storm, its great at what it does, also gives you the time you may need against aggro opponents, and can be used as a tempo tool bouncing one mox at the Eot of your opponent in order to make more difficult playing instants (specially useful if the mox you bounce is the sapphire), the counterspells I think are capital for the archetype since it is a combo control deck it needs the coutnermagic botha as protection and defense. it' s also important to keep the countermagic for the matches that you must be the control part (siding in goyfs, and siding out the combo package).  I ' m not sure about the misdirection or trap slot, while they are great in a given metagame, here in barcelona most of good players play combo control, so winning counterwar is relevant, but I may think about those 2 slots...


About Jace... I think he also deserve an slot or two but again I can't see how...

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

I couldn't, if there is any, the thread for this archetype, and I think it deserved a place in this forums plus the new set (MBS) grants some new toys to improve it qualitatively.

First of all I present the deck:

"Almost Tinker"

Maindeck 60

2x Misty Rainforest
1x Polluted Delta
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Flooded Strand
4x Island
2x Underground sea
2x Tropical Island
1x Tolarian Academy
1x Library of Alexandria

5x Mox
1x Black Lotus
1x Sol Ring
1x Mana Crypt
1x Lotus Petal

1x Blightsteel Colossus

4x Gush
4x Force of Will
3x Mana Drain
3x Repeal
1x Misdirection
1x Mindbreak Trap
1x Tinker
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Merchant Scroll
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
1x Timetwister
1x Mind's Desire
1x Gifst Ungiven
1x Ponder
1x Brainstorm
1x Chain of Vapor
1x Hurkyl's Recall

2x Brain Freeze

1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Yawgmoth's Will

1x Fastbond
1x Regrowth

Sideboard 15

3x Duress
3x Tarmogoyf
2x Steel Sabotage
2x Hurkyl's Recall
2x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Yixlid Jailer
1x Pithin Needle

Most of you may already know this archetype. I want to know your opinion.

The addition of BSC I think is quite important since it gives a new win condition (non-dependant on your opponent's life like brainfreeze) that helps a lot against the aggro match ups, but also being a 1 turn clock makes it not as bad against control.

There's only one thing I miss in my maindeck and this is just because I couldn't find the place for it, so extra help needed in this, and this are the "Tromod's effect" originally Almost blue decks pack a couple of Tromod's crypt to back up the brainfreeze plan (and avoiding being Yawgmoth Willed to death), some contemporary build pack Nihil spellbonb instead, for its cantrip nature. But I had to cut those to add the tinker pack.

The sideboard is also very regular almost sideboard with some goyf to combat aggro (fish and mud), and has added the steel sabotage, this slot were Nature's claim before but I feel that sabotage will do a better job since not giving life to a MUD opponent could be very imprtant if you are racing with Goyfs.

The final question is, would you a dd a Myr battlesphere to the sideboard so I can swap it for colossus against Tangle Wire decks?

Greetings,

Thanks,

Iñaki.-

Decent Sinergy with master transmuter, though transmuter is not played a lot.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

There are some questions that I' d like to calrify. So if Mr. Mastriano, or any other experienced Oath player, is so kind to answer I'll be very glad to hear the opinion about it.

I'll take this list as reference: http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=5473&iddeck=39621

1st- Jace seems as an staple for Oath builds, at least the community accepts taht, though some individuals doesn't (being erradicated by an onslaught of Spirit tokens is not cool), I can see his usefulness in Elephant Oath, developing an strong midgame and keeping the 1-of' s each creature inside the deck. Tyrant Oath while hving multiples, whjich makes less problematic the need of shuffling them back, also plays Gush which invetes to a lighter mana curve in the deck. ALso playing less disruption (than the elephant) makes that we have almost no midgame, trying to go into it in vintage with only 4 FoW seems like quite suicidal...

2nd- why aren't you playing Dispel in the side, it gets most of the problematic cards that Oath may face (Nature's claim, swords to Plowshares, ... being the only relevant one that doesn't Trygon Predator), it takes care of most of cards that REB covers (again Trygon can handled with REB but not with dispel, and Jace, but jace seems like an irrelevant card against the Tyrant Build), so is huge in the blu match up.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

Thank you all, specially Steve for the accurate details, that's lots of insight!

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

I already knew that the deck was named after Mr. Cadaverous bloom in my lap (at least this is what rumorology says...)

Thanks for the link.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

I' m not sure if this is the correct forum to post this question, if it is not I apologize, and please don' t hesitate on moving it to the right place.

I' ve started playing competitive Vintage like 8-0 moths ago, so I know very few about vintage history. I' d like to ask to those vintegae veterans out there which is the main difference (or differences) about Pitch long decks and The Perfect Storm. Since I ' ve seen some people call TPS decks Long as well, my I assume that TPS is the evolution of Pitch long?, even if this is true what made it change the name?

Greetings,

Iñaki.-

It has a problem with doomsday itneraction, since it draws 2 but shuffles one back, this not only keeps the number of cards in the pile in 4 but also shuffles the pile which may hurt sometimes.

Greetings,

Iñaki.-