Don't forget that Seeker of the Way.  I heard that dude did work. :3

Will there be any consideration for budget decks?  If so, what card exclusions will be considered as budget in decks for this event?

I like this new idea.  I wonder how Death's Shadow would work, considering Bob and Thoughtseize can add up quickly.  Also, how viable is Phyreixan Obliterator in the board?  Can it work against creature based decks?

I'm not concerned about budget at the moment.  As is, I'm about 11 proxies in.  Basically anything 80$ or under I can get, or borrow if I don't feel like it.  What cuts do you think should be made based on your suggestions?  I want to keep Leylines out of the main for the moment, because of the pain associated in topdecking or from Bob.  Should I put Tops in place of the Chains?  Should I put Oxidize in the board?

Thoughts:
How does Chains of Mephistopheles work in Vintage?  I know people use Skullclamp with Ravagers and such, but other than that, does Chains stop anything?
Is Infernal Tutor good in a deck where I have no card drawing (Other than Bob)?
Is Sensei's Divining Top worth it in a deck where I have no card drawing (Other than Bob)?


New proposed decklist:
2 Chains of Mephistopheles OR 2 Infernal Tutor
4 Dark Ritual
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
2 Pox
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Dark Confidant
1 Nether Spirit
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Bayou
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Pithing Needle
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Null Rod
4 Leyline of the Void




Old decklist:
1 Necropotence
2 Nether Void
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
2 Pox
1 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Gravecrawler
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Sol Ring
1 Trinisphere
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Mutavault
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle (thinking this should be higher)
3 Abrupt Decay (thinking this should be higher)
4 Null Rod
4 Leyline of the Void
2 The Abyss

First and foremost: I have not played "Vintage" in over 10 years, since the days of Abyss-Proof Gun Zoo, forcing people to maindeck Goblin Trenches at Neutral Ground NYC. That being said, I would like to slowly lurch my way back into the truest Eternal Format. I have been playing EDH for a year or so, since coming back into the game, and have amassed quite a few decent cards in the process. No moxen, but with my LGS allowing 15 proxies, I'm sure I can get all the "cheap" cards I need and simply proxy the few that must be proxied for now.

Now, when I got a playset of Lilianas and Dark Confidants, I thought I might be able to brew some rogue aggro mono-b control build. Now, it seems that once again every deck out there is blue or artifact based, and I'm not sure how Bobs would work in this. So I'm shifting gears to control based strategies, as opposed to aggro.

Thoughts:
How does Chains of Mephistopheles work in Vintage?  I know people use Skullclamp with Ravagers and such, but other than that, does Chains stop anything?
Is Infernal Tutor good in a deck where I have no card drawing (Other than Bob)?
Is Sensei's Divining Top worth it in a deck where I have no card drawing (Other than Bob)?


New proposed decklist:
2 Chains of Mephistopheles OR 2 Infernal Tutor
4 Dark Ritual
1 Vampiric Tutor
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Smallpox
2 Pox
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Dark Confidant
1 Nether Spirit
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Bayou
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Pithing Needle
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Null Rod
4 Leyline of the Void




Old decklist:
1 Necropotence
2 Nether Void
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
2 Pox
1 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Gravecrawler
4 Liliana of the Veil
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Sol Ring
1 Trinisphere
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Mutavault
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

Sideboard:
2 Pithing Needle (thinking this should be higher)
3 Abrupt Decay (thinking this should be higher)
4 Null Rod
4 Leyline of the Void
2 The Abyss


How do I defend against Storm: I don't know. No, really, I don't know.
How do I defend against Oath: No creatures in play.
How do I defend against Fish: I thought of this as I tried to brew.
How do I defend against Dredge: Board in Leyline, aggressive mulligan?
How do I defend against Tezzeret/MUD: Board in Null Rod & Abrupt Decay.
How do I defend against Show: I also thought of this as I tried to brew.
How do I defend against Blood Moon: Abrupt Decay.

Any thoughts are welcome. I seriously need to think of something if I am to try to get into Vintage again.

Very rare scenario, but it happened.

Opponent had Lich, and 2x Illusions of Grandeur in play.  He drew his 40, then played Eureka.  At the time I was playing Type 2 (which included Planeshift).  Opponent drops lands, nice big fatties and a bunch of other stuff that helped his mana and his creatures.  No haste though.  At this point, he has less than 10 cards in his library.

I drop ... Questing Phelddagrif.
I then proceed to give my Pheldie protection from black and red repeatedly, making him gain 2 life each time.  Due to replacement effects, he draws instead of gaining life.

Card edited to state "Target opponent may discard two non-land cards."

Well thats a LOT weaker than what I originally intended.

BBB, 3 life, chuck a card = Mind Rot ... seems a little weak to me.

You may discard a blue card instead of play <this>'s mana cost.
Counter target spell.  That spells controller may draw a card. (Consider changing this to two based on the feedback you get)

Noted.  Card edited to suit.

Because of what the card can do, I want to make it more difficult to cast.  I don't think you should be able to get the enchantment into play easily if it can have such a powerful effect, even IF the effect is costy.

To have the mana cost at <B> would mean that someone can get this out turn1 and with a little acceleration, use it first turn as well.  I want to make it not so easy to be used.

But as usual, I'm open to suggestions ...

Why must every card be "uber leet competitive must-restrict-in-all-formats"?  Why must every card played in any deck be teir one?  Why can't I play a deck that is not the standard netdeck?  Why can't a card or a deck be casual?  Am I the only casual player at TMD now?  If so, then I'll completely stop coming here ... because clearly casual is not the way to go for TMD.




Noted.  Thank you for the enlightenment, oh master sensei of the yellow leaf.




The card has been edited.  Reduced the mana cost to 1UU, and lowered the stack cost to 2.  I did not put the cantrip, because I do not think it is needed.


As an additional thought ... this card will NOT be placed into the Masterlist, since it is not required according to the Set in Progress.  Apparently you only want the best cards in existance, not casual cards that simple untrained human minds like mine can think up.

So what would you change the mana cost to?

If triple U is not viable, and the high spell requirement isnt either ... then what should it change to?

If you were planning on playing a defensive deck, wouldn't you plan on using cards that protect yourself, such as (and I these example from Type 2) Samite Healer, Master Decoy, Puppeteer and the like?  You could put one or two of these abilities on the stack and then play Repudiation ... filling the stack isn't that hard ... just play defensively ...

This seems like the type of card that you would have to play around ... so you would have to supplement it with other effects ...

If you all really think the problem lies in the three spell / ability cost ... what would you change that to?  Would you remove it completely? Would you just lower it?  I'm open to suggestions ...

Current Wording:

Inveigher's Guild Pact
{ 2 } { B }
Enchantment

{ B } { B } { B }, Pay 3 life: Reveal a nonland card in your hand. Target opponent may pay discard two non-land cards. If that player does, discard the card. If that player doesn't, you may play that card without paying its mana cost. Play this ability as a sorcery and only once each turn.

Thinking about increasing the life cost to 5 life ... due to the fact that you can hurt an opponent for 11 or for 16 with cards such as Darksteel Collossus and Draco.

Questions?  Comments?  Suggestions?

1-  Last Word cannot counter spells such as Urza's Rage, Blurred Mongoose and Scragnoth.

2-  Last Word cannot counter the sacrificing of Pernicious Deed, Engineered Explosives, and the like.

3-  If you remove all spells and abilites on the stack from the game, would you not remove the cantrip from the game as well?  Unless you say Draw a card, then remove all spells and abilites from the game ... but that just sounds wierd.

4-  An uncounterable Stifle with the same mana cost ...that is ALSO a counterspell ... doesn't that seem a little too strong?

@ Matt:  It's incorrect grammar to end a phrase with a proposition ... thus I doubt WotC would word it that way.

@ Jacob Orlove:  Is that even legal?  Sorry, but I have no idea if that can even be done with the current rules ...

@MrZuccinniHead:  I wanted to make it like Counterspell / Stifle ... and I also wanted to protect against two specific cards.  Misdirection (and it's variants) and Ertai's Meddling.  Ertai's Meddling is very good card (at least in my opinion it is) and I have used it to screw over many a player in the past.

In any event, the ability to counter ANYTHING (except a mana ability of course) needs to have a drawback.  4 mana is steep enough ... 6 mana counterspells don't usually see play, so I figured I'd add another requirement as opposed to a higher mana cost.

Current wording:

Repudiation
{ 1 } { U } { U }
Instant

You may play Repudiation only if there are two or more spells or abilites on the stack.
While Repudiation is on the stack, no other spells or abilities may be put onto the stack.
Remove all spells and abilites on the stack from the game.

Card inspired by: Time Stop + Last Word

Emphasis:  I'm testing a new form of uncounterability.  If the idea works, and if I can make enough cards with this mechanic ... I'll give it a keyword.

According to the wording, you can cast a spell, and in response I can tap my Samite Healer, and in response you can cast another spell (or ability) ... and then I cast Repudiation ... and then everything stops ...

Questions?  Comments?  Suggestions?

Somehow I think returning the creature to play would be better ... so you can abuse come into play effects ... but you can't sacrifice ... because the creature isn't destroyed ...

Indestructible seems good as a debatable substitution ...

Anyway ... I'm also taking name suggestions for this card ...

Don't take those pills!  They're not what you think they are!



Anyway ... I think you should make the casting cost <G><R><R> ... Why?  Because it should be just a little bit harder to cast ... Increasing the mana cost doesn't like the right thing to do, but making it more colored seems a little better.  What do you think?

I'm not sure if you can just say "creatures you control are indestructible until end of turn" ... that just seems morally wrong ...

And also, I'm thinking a name change might be in order ... such as "Blessing of the Planet" or something along those lines ...

Edit:  Wording updated.

Ok.  

Surfuric Vortex says, "If a player would gain life, play player gains no life instead" ...

Is there a way to use that wording to state "if a source you do not control would deal damage this turn, it deals no damage instead" ...

That might dodge Flaring Pain if it's legal ...

And how about if I change the second ability to "If a creature you control would be destroyed this turn, return that creature to play" ... this way you can't sacrifice and get it back.

Should the sacrifice line be above the line?  This way, people don't get confused about the sacrficing being a part of the tap effect ...

I know the wording is off ... that's why I submitted the card here ... I mean to make it just not die ...

Current Wording:


Holy Healing
{ 3 } { W } { W }
Instant

Prevent all damage that sources you don't control would deal this turn.  If a creature you control would be destroyed this turn, return that creature to play.

Idea behind card:  I wanted a spell that prevented damage but got around Flaring Pain ... as if we needed one ... but still ...

And as far as I can tell ... the regenerate thing does not help against cards like Dark Banishing and the like, so it's not TOO strong against Destroy effects ...

Thank you very much for the quick response.

I appreciate the help.