Wasn't sure where to post this -

Been ages since I've had the chance to really play MTG, is anyone headed down to the GP that has an extra seat available in exchange for gas money? PM me if so!

Background: Ran Mox tournaments in Hadley for a couple years, played in the pre-SCG Vintage mox tournament scene for ~a decade until college/work/life got in the way. Will not chop off head/grab wheel and steer car into traffic.

(mods feel free to move in wrong place)

I've lived in NYC the past 2 years (and Brooklyn now). Cancels each other out?   

Does that mean there is a possibility? shooting some PMs!

Title of the thread says it all! Is anyone here planning on playing at the SCG event tomorrow and happens to have a car? Looking to get picked up from the train station nearby. Shoot me a PM or post here if so!

Thanks!

aww F me didn't see this, live in NYC now and i went upstate with the g/f so can't make it.

Good luck all.

p.s. wtf spambots?

Who are you kidding? You've never even sniffed sex. Child please.

Making an appearance, if only so matt can buy my bazaar and drains.

That's really surprising, seeing as Hotels are getting killed in the current economy.

Gogo Moose Lodge!

A return to Waterbury being in Waterbury? And Booze??

COUNT ME IN.

Do not go to Madison Steve. DO NOT. Spend your 3 days in Chicago - if by spring you mean baseball time, make your way to wrigley (it really is beautiful), find a Lou Malnati's or Duo's for deepdish, and check out the museum of contemporary art. A very nice (and not too expensive) meal can be had at the Grand Lux Cafe. If you have the money, I highly recommend Tru for a meal (prix fix starts at around $100, so expect $3-400 for you and the g/f if you'd like wine.)

Rt. 1 is beautiful, make sure to stop and takes lot of pictures. Spent some time around Santa Cruz/wine country on a tennis trip, very nice area.

Seattle is blegh, it rains too much, and is basically NE without snow. I hear good things about Vancover though.

Oh man. How I miss having all of us in Wmass. I gotta start playing Vintage again.

Team Hadley would be too ridiculous a list to compile of names/accomplishments/deck innovation/etc. We were the OG's. That's all.

If this isn't a joke, it would be + ev for every single person to run one.

Cmon people, don't be stupid. Play the 3/3.

Title says it all. Cards now retain the color you chose?

Just realized this is sunday, ffffffffml.

Will not be there, srry dudes.

Annnnd just realized this is the same day as our homecoming.

Accept my apologies moose god; I will be drinking and trying to sleep with ex-classmates of mine 

I mean if everyone and there mom is gonna be there, guess I will try to be.

On a scale of one to shit-eating grin, this put a huge smile on my face. Definitely honored to be noted as running events that "charged less and paid out truly impressive prizes".

Had the torch not been passed to the new kid running Hadley events, I'd be back to doing either either at the mall or Off the Wall games. $15-$20 is what I believe to be the range for events, with more duals/playables then moxes as far as I am concerned - everyone proxies them anyways, try and spread the staples out so more people can build and play.

$25 is my top end, and I've only ever paid that for old school Waterbury. More than that and I'm better off just playing a poker tournament for the time to fun to prize ratio.

Wheres the open source website/email to tell wizards to reverse this f'ing bs asap.

The change in combat is beyond retarded. THANKS FOR COMPLETELY CHANGING THE GAME WE PLAY - Did people NOT enjoy the stack? Being able to master it was what seperated the pros from joes.

This is so beyond dumb. How do they not run any focus groups about this shit? Seriously. Come the f on.

Ugh. Yay for making the game easier for morons.

That is all.

Why, thank you for the penis in the anus on the prize support wizards.

Exactly - they are already making an exceptionally high % on their goods/services because their take is priced into the pricing of their singles.

As I also said steve, I'm perfectly fine with the principles of business practices - but you seemed to miss that. It's the matter of information asymmetries in the magic playing community. You also missed me noting the difference in business structures based upon who the tournament organizer was.

And as far as Neutral Ground - didn't they go out of business for that exact reason?

The question at hand is WHAT WOULD BE A FAIR RAKE, or the amount of money the house keeps based off entrance fees. Seeing as there is already a 20-30% disparity in the card pricing, a 10% cap rake should be more than acceptable. I'm saying that above that point it becomes unfair in my mind and looks like gouging - but obviously if people keep coming back, then "it must work/be perfectly acceptable."

@ Steve: Did you even read the first post? Are you telling me it should be considered "fair" to take in $700 in entrance fees and give back roughly <$400 in prizes?

Thank you for nit picking out one line Steve. I think I've followed up with a better breakdown of the "house rake" in the post right above yours.

As far as the RoR being store specific; understandable. Location costs do differ from store to store. But it's absurd when tournament organizers claim they "put all the entrance fees" back into the prizes when they clearly don't. I think publishing what your rake amount will be would do wonders.

Taking >10% on entrance fees alone IS hustling people playing a Hobby, Steve. This is in addition to the % that they're making on the difference between what they paid for the cards and their sell price - sometimes upwards of 30%. Expecting nothing less than a 40% Return on equity (!!) for one days work? Cmon now.

But this is all a moot point as long as magic players continue to take it when it comes to prize support in most cases. I do love capitalism, and fully support being able to do this - just don't lie about it to the players straight faced.

I'd also be interested to know of any singleton card store owners that took on this business venture as a "rapid wealth accumlation" project. Unlike people who get into M&A or become lawyers (because the money is good enough) but hate their jobs, I feel you have a very different type of person as a store owner.

We're also mixing and matching apples and oranges. There is a HUGE difference between a singleton card store owner running monthly events, and a large distributor such as SCG renting out a hall for a day once every three months. Very different fixed/variable costs which leads itself to very different business models/plans.

Plus cards. I don't expect the store to resell the mox/power they give as prizes at the retail/purchased value, but at what they are sold for - so in your example of 20 players at 20$ at pop, a mox+drain (valued at say 275 and 75, which leaves room for a >10% rake) is acceptable.

The problem I have is when you get 25 people at 25$ a head (so 500$) and people give out a mox and a drain, when they could easily throw in at least set of FoW as well.


I'm all for this too - list them as 18+2 or 23+2, but not 20 or 25 if you're not putting it all back into the prize pool.

Here's a good example of the house "rake" as it scales to entrants: the current Steel City Extravaganza:


100+ players: $2800 equivalent in cash for $3000 in entrance fees. ~7% rake

Let's say they get 150 players though; what happens to the extra $1500?

80 Players: $2175 in cash prizes for $2400 in entrance fees. ~10% rake.

60 Players: $1375 in cash prizes for $1800 entrance fees. 24%(!!!) Rake.

40 Players: $875 in cash prizes for $1200 in entrance fees. 27%(!!!) Rake

20 Players: $515 in cash prizes for $600. ~14% Rake

10 Players:  $225 in cash prizes for $300. 25%(!!) Rake.

Am I the only one who looks at these numbers and goes "wtf?"

While it does say "I will be using a "based on participants" prize scale." it is clear from those basic numbers that something is off - in addition to not listing what will be done with monies above 100 entrants.

Personally, I would never go to a tournament structured as such. You're praying for between 80 and 100 players since it looks as if the HOUSE is keeping ALL THE EXTRA MONEY beyond 100. The fact is magic tournament organizers get away with this a lot - SCG is a perfect example - and it's pretty pathetic when compared with the regulated and competitive gambling/poker parallel.

Maybe you're missing something - it's never a LOSING MONEY DAY when you run a tournament where you give back 90-95% of the entrance fees as cards. Did you even read HomerCat's post?

If you're running a store - and yes (gasp!) you're going to be there anyway for the day - adding on an extra "minimum wage" to your day in ADDITION to 4-500$ of cards sold?

Lol, cmon guys, if store owners could run tournaments with such a structure every single day of the week, they would.

That's life sometimes - all about economies from scale. You cannot attempt to squeeze out a greater profit when your number of entrants is so low, because of the huge dissonance in the prize pool. The more people you have, the easier that becomes - and yes, you should be willing to deal with making minimum wage for a tournament or two. Why? Because it builds you credit among your customers - they'll keep coming back and playing since they know you're not f*cking them over, and more people will start coming because you offer a greater prize pool.

If you want to get wealthy, try another career. Hustling people playing a hobby is lol.

5-10% rake. Not a preset number imo. If you feel like putting a cap on your take - say once you hit 100+ at $30 capping yourself at $300 for the day - would be even better.

We;ve gone over this alot before - usually ending in large arguments between myself and the ELD/Myriad camp.

That payout is an absolute sham for 700$ in entry fees. Anyone who tries to argue otherwise is retarded.

In an ideal world, the amount paid back should = all the entre fees.

In a more realistic world, a magic equivalent "rake" of keeping 5-10% of entrance fees is as high as it should go. No online/live gambling establishment runs a higher rake then this, it shouldn't be any different for another competitive card game if you're trying to run a business out of it. That's all there is too it.

Booyah, Sounds awesome, definitely ocming back after an awesome time the other week.

EDIT: Just realized im in Vegas during this, whoops.

To quote John Maynard Keynes, "In the long run we're all dead." Long term is a misguided phrase/theory, when really it is just a series of short-term sequences; similar to how any curve is still just made of lots of tiny straight lines.

I personally believe 15+ proxy tournaments have always been absurd. 10 or 9 should just be the accepted norm across the board; I mean the point of proxies is to allow people who do not own POWER to play with POWER. There are 9 power cards. Derf?

5 Is also restrictive because then that player can no longer play a bazaar or workshop deck. At least with 10 they can play 4 workshop/bazaar + 6 power. 5 just promotes more ichorid + manadrain.decks for those who own none of the top end cards.

I'm listed twice as confirmed; Therefore I really really will be there, haha.

Oh god, i remember those. It's been ages, I don't even have the address haha.

Feel free to shoot me a pm for some mws or live testing Dan.