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1  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / [SOI] Pieces of the puzzle on: February 09, 2016, 07:12:15 am
there's an interesting common in shadows over Innistrad leaked today on mtgsalvation:

Pieces of the puzzle – 2U
Sorcery – common

reveal the top 5 cards of your library.
Put up to two instant or sorcery
cards from among them into your hand
and the rest into your graveyard.

--

First of all, it's a strictly better uncovered clues, a card that is not vintage-playable.

1. vintage-relevant effect

Searching for instants and sorceries is relevant in vintage. This effect is somewhere between peer through depths and fact or fiction (it fuels the graveyard).

Now, both cards are not played in vintage, but one has even be restricted, so for it to be better than peer through depths, you would need to have a deck that can consistently find 2 instants/sorceries in the top 5 cards and ideally have some use of the graveyard.

I don't know how many instants and sorceries you have to run to hit "two of" somewhat consistently. How is the math done?

Special implications: For example, this card lets you ideally find a reanimation spell, a counter AND dump a fattie into your graveyard at the same time (or find a counter / dump artifact in a welder shell etc.)

2. Cost + timing

I analyze these two together, because being a sorcery is very relevant in vintage. Had it been an instant, it would be very easy to set yourself up for a big turn eot, making the card very similar to thirst for knowledge in cost, timing and card advantage. As it is, the cost + timing are more similar to dack fayden, monastery mentor, yawgmoth's will, tinker, compulsive research and painful truths. Dack and mentor are very different form which role they play in decks, yawgmoth's will has a much higher ceiling and tinker is only sometimes being played right now (wich kind of has the above effect of fattie + welder all in itself), so this seems to be an issue with this card.

3. Conclusion:

IF this card is going to see play it will probably be in a new strategy made to abuse it, like some sort of reanimator (which is not dragon), but it could make an appearance in a spell-based combo list like Dark petition storm, although I doubt it would be better than a draw 7 in a list like this.
Maybe it could help something like a fastbond gush/storm list, as it digs quite deep when going off.

I think it has potential though and is certainly on the short list of interesting spells in that cost range.

2  Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: Odd Oath on: January 26, 2016, 02:43:34 pm
One thing: I think Titania is a weak oath target (as you mention at the end of your stream). It can't even attack through orchard tokens. Only trades with a golem (rather, the token trades).

Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
Stormtide Leviathan (odd? yeah! unblockable moat creature? okay!)
Avacyn, Angel of Hope (boring)
Rune-scarred demon (e.g. with tangle wire and mana floating in upkeep... into hurkyl's or other ridiculous stuff)
Tidespout Tyrant (also makes infinite mana and draws your deck with 2 moxen + jace/dack/rune-scarred-demon etc.: surely wins the "odd" price, together with void winnower)
Dragonlord Atarka
Hellkite Tyrant (WIN MORE!)
Elesh Norn
Blazing Archon
Terastodon
... or even woodripper

all seem better against MUD, which says a lot imo.
Almost any Fattie, really.
3  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [OGW] Eldrazi Mimic on: January 04, 2016, 02:30:32 pm
Yeah, that would be consistently inconsistent. The problem is that it's a 2 card combo just like defrosting marit lage, is countered by mental misstep instead of uncounterable (thespian's stage) as well as being hit by every creature removal in the format in response to the trigger. On the other hand, when it works you get a 12/12 with no abilities instead of a 20/20 flying indestructible! The only upside is that repeal would cost 2U instead of U to bounce the contraption.

Hm. I doubt it will make it.


4  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Vintage Super League: Who Would You Like to See? on: December 09, 2015, 09:13:22 am
David Ochoa just played brilliantly. That was a demonstration.
5  Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: Painter on: December 08, 2015, 07:16:31 am
@ chaam:
I haven't tested your list at all, but here are some considerations:

As described in the opening post, I think you really need the black splash for demonic tutor and yawgmoth's will. Especially if you play fastbond, then you might want vampiric tutor as well. Seeing as how you don't run any mass removal, this would also be important to be able to win quickly when you are under pressure.

Also, 4 gush, 4 mana drain, 4 thirst for knowledge is kind of excessive. Merchant Scroll is surely better than any one of these cards.
Also, in a deck with so many gushes and fastbond, you would want preordains to put lands to the bottom of the library. Dack Fayden, although a card I side out often, helps with excess lands, too.

Against DPS (Dark Petition Storm), mana drains are very slow and you need some flusterstorms or mindbreak trap. Otherwise you get rolled.
You literally have 0 answers to cards with the storm ability on them.

--------------
Small Tournament report:

I took the deck to a 21 man tournament in zurich this sunday. Most of the local ringers were there, except my brother and the other friend I faced in top8 last time. We plaed 5 rounds to top8.

Round one I played against a blue deck. I saw seat of the synod and moxen. I had early painter and some board control with dack, REB, strip mine into the combo.
2:0

round two was against Dredge. I was on the draw and knew what he was up to. I tried my luck with a bad hand that consisted of a bunch of mana, lotus and everything. I didn't draw a threat in time.

Game two I mulligan into 6 containing nihil spellbomb and cage. At some point, he plays chewer on the cage. I cashed in spellbomb in resp even though he only had one bridge. Maybe I should have waited. In the draw off the spellbomb, I drew cage. I protected it for a long time until I drew the win.

Game three, I cut him to a 1 card hand without bazaar. He refused to powder his first hand because it contained three bridges and promptly mulled to oblivion. I had turn 1 cage into turn 2 tinker into blightsteel. It was the only time in the tournament I cast tinker. blightsteel was useful sometimes though, to discard it to thirst.

2:0

Round 3, against mono white hate.dec.

I concede game 1 quickly to varied lock pieces which create a puzzle I won't torture my head to try and solve and we go on to a lenghty g2 which features much more of the same, but I am able to handle threats like mindcensor here and there thanks to painter, who also blocks all of
 his other creatures and later go from 3 to 1 life with toxic deluge to wipe his board and win.
2:0:1

Round 4, I play against the runner-up of this year's league, he's on and he demolishes me in two games that involve first turn recall into dack fayden or treasure cruise and some suboptimal plays on my part, with us both having remora and me in a good board position (untap and win). I gave the very close games away somehow.

Win and in round 5, I play against a blue deck, I think it included mentors. I have mana crypt turn one both games, into quick combo kills.

Top8 I play Against a good friend of mine, he's on some grixis therapy list.

G1 I play island into remora, into turn 2 strip mine his underground sea, keeping him on one mana for several turns while I pay for remora with land drops and he discards down to hand size. Eventually, remora dies, he finds land, but I'm too far ahead.
G2 we had an epic battle where he squeezed out a win.
G3 He has the dreaded mulligan to 6 with double probe and other free cards, but no mana. He doesn't find any in time.

Top4 against Dark Petition Storm:
G1 I counter everything he plays thanks to remora, but then he casts Mind's Desire which I flusterstorm. As he wants to move the desire to the grave, the top8 friend from before automatically shouts out hey, you could pay two! which he does. I get a bit angry, but he didn't do it on purpose and I let him resolve his two copies, as I still have force + blue card. Sadly, he reveals petition and necropotence. Necro resolves, and I stupidly counter petition instead of the yawgmoth's will he would have got. At least I get another turn, and I play grindstone. He untaps with 7 and plays stuff into will, into dark petition. In response, I activate grindstone, flip over land and tendrils of agony not. I concede and tilt around a bit.

G2 I open with land, mox, nihil spellbomb with counter up into turn 2 mystic remora. the remora idles for a few turns, draws me a card maybe or not, but he doesn't do anything. Remora dies and is replaced by the second one. I think I also have library. At some pint, he resolves a dark petition, but spell mastery is not there because I crack nihil in response. I get another turn and out combo him.

G3 he opens with land, mox, defense grid, which forces me to 1 for 1 it with shattering spree. Later, he gets another one, but I assemble mana. We flood like crazy, so that a bit later, I have 7 mana and still no clock thanks to double painter and tolarian, which allows me to play a free and a 1cc counter. He's also flooded, so that flusterstorm doesn't do anything when he casts empty for 8 tokens, putting me on a two turn clock. I topdeck demonic tutor.

In the finals, I play against an Oath deck.
Game 1, I have Jace, the bigdaddy early.
Game 2, I have a mental misstep/pyro heavy hand, which matches his ancestral recall/misstep/force hand nicely. I then get my own recall countered to have a misdirection-protected cage. We flood a bit, he casts lotus griselbrand with protection, but I have force plus REB.
I have jace. Jace controls the game, leaves a griselbrand on top, brainstorms, does what he has always done: put games away all on his own and winning the tournament (triple force and altered trophy empty the warrens).

It's all a bit hazy, I haven't slept enough, but testing with and against dark petition storm certainly helped.

Some observations in no order and no rememberance in games:

- I always boarded out tinker blightsteel and dack, except against dredge and hate. I could also board it out there to null the cages.
- I almost never used misdirection.
- Library of alexandria drew some cards and didn't cost me a game.
- Big daddy Jace is boss. I played him because I didn't have boy jace. Would keep it that way, even with gush, pyroblast etc.
- Mystic remora is a triggered laser gun.
- Untap, randomly draw into the combo, win, is often a good solution for weird boardstates.
- Strip mine took a game.

Here's the list:

Artifact: 11
1 Black Lotus
2 Grindstone
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring

Creature: 4
1 Blightsteel Colossus
3 Painter's Servant

Enchantment: 2
2 Mystic Remora

Instant: 22
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Dig Through Time
1 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Gush
3 Mental Misstep
1 Misdirection
3 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Thirst for Knowledge

Land: 15
1 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Strip Mine
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island

Planeswalker: 2
1 Dack Fayden
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sorcery: 5
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
1 Tinker
1 Yawgmoth's Will

Sideboard: 15

3 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle

2 Ingot Chewer
2 Shattering Spree
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mountain

1 Flusterstorm
2 Toxic Deluge

In the new metagame with more dark petition, I would maybe go down to 4 blasts (play 2-2 spilt because of therapy) and add the 4th misstep. I would suggest not taking out misdirection as it's the only answer there is to abrupt decay, but it wasn't very good. If you're not afraid, this slot is free for another metagame card, maybe move the fluster main or a mindbreak trap.
I you see a lot of merfolk, there is always the secret tech of llawan, cephalid emperor, which is useful together with painter for any creature. But deluge is just fine, too.

I have never cared for mana drain in the remora deck. Love me some cheap, situational counters.
6  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Vintage Super League: Who Would You Like to See? on: December 08, 2015, 06:13:25 am
David Williams gave his game 3 away, first, when he cast vampiric eot early, and the second time the turn after he untapped with necro, I think.

He had 8 mana available for the turn. He could have cast dark petition into tendrils for 12ish and cabal therapy the jace, vryn's prodigy to protect his timetwister from flashback therapy should Olle draw a land. Like that, he could regain his necro-potency and he could cast twister to shuffle the tendrils back in, as well as olle being on 2 or so.

Afterwards, he drew into mana, and then more mana for 100 turns. That's bad luck. Had he played right, he would have needed much less luck.

7  Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: Painter on: November 04, 2015, 03:55:19 pm
As I said, you need to have yawgmoth's will in hand, mill yourself eot, then play a huge will, mill the opponent, then ancestral recall them in return. Post board you don't need extract, because they might be running two emrakuls or one and a blightsteel. This is the same as having maniac in play cmc-wise and doesn't require you to run more bad cards (will already is quite clunky).

re: more artifact hate in the board:

With 2+1 basics and the 6-7 hate pieces (+ 3 chewer, 2 spree,1 mountain, 1 needle, 1 explosives) mud is fine in my experience, because they only have 1 chalice now. I board like this: -4 misstep, -1 flusterstorm, - 1-3 REBs, -2 Remora on the draw or against robot-heavy lists.

Trinket mage I have thought about, but it seems a bit slow, especially with remora. Running two grindstones is still fine, one card has to be the worst and you can always pitch it to thirst, plus it enables desperate topdeck wins.
Being able to just luck into wins is one of the reasons to play this deck: you often just happen to have an undeserved win in a tough spot because you assemble the contraption.


8  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / [C15] Magus of the Wheel on: November 04, 2015, 03:32:55 am
Magus of the Wheel  {2} {R}
Creature - human wizard

 {1} {R} {Tap}, sacrifice Magus of the Wheel: Each player discards his or her hand, then draws seven cards.

3/3

The effect is vintage relevant, although not used very often nowadays. The casting cost cost is on-par with the original. The stats of the creature are fine. the problem is the one-turn delay this card has, a bit like tinker for memory jar.
The upside is that you can crack in the end step of your opponent, although this would give your opponent two turns to react to it.
I have no clue if the card will end up being playable, but it has to be considered.
9  Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Painter on: November 03, 2015, 02:23:02 pm
Let me preface by saying that painter has been a pet deck of mine since a long time, but the important ideas for my painter decks mostly came from Rich Shay. The first time I played painter was at the bazaar of Moxen III in 2009 to a DQ finish due to my inexperience in tournaments. http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37907.msg527792#msg527792 this deck ran mystic remora and commandeers and was inspired by rich shay's "Shaymora" List with remoras and meditates. Back then, all the fancy counters hadn't been printed yet... REB was the most efficient you could get: conditional hard counter for R.
I wrote a primer about the "Bishop's Painter" list in 2011: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=42294.msg585805#msg585805
I don't claim any of those lists was optimal, of course. But they were powerful and sometimes unbeatable.

After the restriction of chalice, Rich Shay and brassman suggested the deck once more. Independently, I had been working on a list that is very similar to theirs. right now, we have discussion about the deck spread in the following topics, which I would like to condense in this thread.

Rich Shay's discussion in tournament results http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=48131.0
this article by joe fiorini http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=48146.0

A mention in the discussion about the new metagame:
This past weekend has revealed to me a couple of things:
(...)
#3. Painter is good.  Too good.  I don't know if it had any decent finishes this weekend, but it's a challenging deck to play against. It has a lot of great draw, blue
control, and a cheap combo. It's the most efficient Big Blue deck we have so far.  Oath could potentionally one-up Painter by maindecking Gaea's Blessings.

Painter has some inherent strengths and weaknesses, and I'll start with pretty obvious ones:

The kill:
You need painter + grindstone. This is 6 mana total, split 1-2-3. The combo is hit by almost any hate in the format: creature removal, artifact removal, null rod / stony silence, needle/revoker. Needle and revoker are small problems, because you can hit them with REBs. Rod and stony are bigger ones because they shut off your mana. abrupt decay is a nightmare. Chalice was awful, because a chalice on 1 game 1 meant you literally only had tinker as an out. Once you have the important half out though, all your blasts are boss. And this is the reason to run the deck. pyroblast/REB.

other considerations regarding the combo:
You can win in the 4th extra turn, unless they run blightsteel colossus. Against oath that runs either emrakul or gaeas blessing, you cannot mill them just like this. In these situations you need to find ancestral recall or yawgmoth's will and either target them with recall in response to the triggers or mill yourself, then cast yawgmoth's will targeting them with recall in response to the triggers once you mill them. Post board, you can bring in nihil spellbomb as another out.

It has a structural advantage against blue decks because of all it's maindeck REBs. REB's are hit by misstep, so you want missteps to protect them. This makes you run many dead cards against shops.

The sideboard should consist of MUD and dredge hate which must overlap with oath hate because you only run painter + REB as solutions and few hard counters maindeck. I haven't found a solution for creature decks yet.

You can't run REBs and missteps and fluster and drain and gush and thirst and dack and Boy Jace and all the tutors and solutions. So you cut the solutions, because REB. And you also cut most unconditional counters because REB.
This leaves painter decks generally weak against creatures, especially dark confidant (but merfolk is a pain too, even with REB).

Good matchups:
Blue decks.
MUD without chalice.
Dredge (combo kill and ample draw + hate)

Problematic matchups:
Standstill

Bad matchups:
BUG fish
Merfolk
Delver (the card, turn 1)

Enough theory, here come decklists. First, I would like to start with Rich Shay's recent list:

// The Win
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Tinker
3 Painter's Servant
2 Grindstone

// Walkers
2 Tiny Jace
1 Dack Fayden

// Control
4 Force of Will
4 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Mental Misstep
1 Mana Drain

// Draw
4 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Gush
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Dig Through Time
1 Ponder
1 Merchant Scroll

// Splash
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will

// Mana
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

// Land
4 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Island
1 Tolarian Academy

// Sideboard
2 Thoughtseize
2 Shattering Spree
3 Ingot Chewer
1 Illness in the Ranks
1 Mountain
2 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Grafdigger's Cage

He plays the classical thirst for knowledge "eot" approach. Notable from his first list is the reduced number of drains and grindstone: Grindstone is the worst card in the deck, it's almost dead, even if you can eot mill yourself for delve or will or disrupt topdeck tutors. I have found mana drain has no place in painter decks.

My list that I piloted to a top4 in Zurich, Switzerland this weekend, features mystic remora again. (28 people, having to defeat my brother in top8 and then being knocked out by my own deck that I suggested to a friend in top4 ("christmasland.dec" with thieves and draw7s).
I was 3-0-2 in the swiss:

// The Win
1 Blightsteel Colossus
1 Tinker
3 Painter's Servant
2 Grindstone

// Walkers
1 Dack Fayden (at least 1 boy jace should probably be in there somewhere, but while testing he was always too slow and I didn't have the time for a 1U do something next turn maybe.)
// Control
4 Force of Will
4 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
4 Mental Misstep (having MORE derpstep was important, especially with remora)
1 flusterstorm (having an out to a tendrils player who bravely plays into remora, i.e. my brother)

// Draw
3 Thirst for Knowledge
2 Gush
2 Mystic Remora (Auto-Win against many a deck, don't blindly play it turn 1, play it with backup and some mana out, then milk it.)
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm
1 Treasure Cruise
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Dig Through Time
1 Sensei's Divining Top (better than ponder with remoras)
1 Merchant Scroll

// Splash
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will

// Mana
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring

// Land
3 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Island (having enough basics is important with remora and against BUG/MUD)
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Strip Mine (an out to library of alexandria, tolarian academy, cavern of souls, 61th card and 15th land for remora, freeing one SB spot). Underperformed in the tournament, but was often good in testing.

// Sideboard
1 Flusterstorm (against blue or gushstorm. Should this be misdirection?)
1 engineered explosives (never used it, I like the card but maybe it should be something else against creatures. volcanic fallout? Fire/ice? Llawan, Cephalid Empress?)
2 Shattering Spree (also bring 1 in against Big Mox.dec)
3 Ingot Chewer
1 Illness in the Ranks
1 Mountain
2 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Grafdigger's Cage
1 pithing needle (demonic into needle saved me against Kulthoda Forgemaster, allowing me to topdeck into Lotus + painter with treasure cruise after losing g1 with blightsteel on board to a topdecked tangle wire).

My version is even more geared against blue than Rich's. The remoras are allstars now that everyone plays moxen and not a delver turn 1 then beat you to death. Together with the full set of missteps and a flusterstorm, the counter suite is very hard to beat.
The match I lost in the top 4 was against a Grixis Thieves deck I designed. I had two horrible hands game one and failed to draw a second blue source for several turns in spite of resolving ancestral recall turn one.


10  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: MagicCardMarket Series - Prague - October 18, 2015 on: October 20, 2015, 03:36:19 am
That's a nice and diverse top 8 right there!

Oath takes down the next big event, remora gush second, MUD, landstill, hatebears, bomberman, another MUD and a planeswalker-mentor deck round it out.

"Blue deck count" for TheWhiteDragon: 5/8.

"TfK deck count" for Smmenen: 2.
11  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: NEW TMD LOGO on: September 30, 2015, 03:33:14 pm
Yes, strategy indeed...  {Tap}
12  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: Vintage Champs 2015 – Decklists, Metagame Report, Video, Report Roundup on: September 17, 2015, 03:33:53 pm
well, the winner only ran 3 force of will Wink
13  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: Vintage Champs 2015 – Decklists, Metagame Report, Video, Report Roundup on: September 08, 2015, 04:52:28 pm
Brian, let me just congratulate you for your performance and the report which is truly a champion's report. I don't even care if you really didn't take notes or just told that to make it look even more unbelievable  Wink.
A great piece of work and a strong point (once more!) to question common beliefs about our format, like, for example, that 4 force of will are the start for a blue deck. Thank you.



14  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORI] "Mana Glutton Hydra" on: June 23, 2015, 05:34:29 pm
I wouldn't discount it that quickly. I tend to agree that it probably makes no impact, but consider this:

If your opponent plays a mentor, you play a hydra. His next turn, he plays a bunch of spells, getting a mentor that's still max. the size of hydra, so he can't attack. This is true especially if you have 1 spell, too. Your next turn, you play a bunch of spells. To negate all the damage, he'd have to block with mentor and all tokens.

As I'm writing this, it occurs to me that if he plays some spells during your turn as well, his entire team grows. So, maybe not. But it's still a fairly strong dryad.

15  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [ORI] Day's Undoing on: June 23, 2015, 05:28:03 pm
Yeah, and they're discussing if the card is good enough for modern over at the mtgsalvation boards...
"But you have to end the turn after this, so your opponent gets to cast spells first with his new hand" kind of arguments.

In regard to notion shenanigans: My brother has a deck with 3 notion thiefs for quite some time now and it's absurd. On top of winning with 14 cards to 0, your opponent gets 1 TILT emblem. With this card though, you only get the 7 best out of 14 while your opponent has 0, so there is only 1/2 Tilt emblem involved.

the real question is: Is the card needed for that deck? I'm unsure, because you run wheel and twister and dacks already and it is worse than the other two draw7s. I think it's more for some update on the academy belcher list, possibly with leyline of anticipation. But I could be wrong, have to ask him.
16  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: Top 4 Split with Mentor at Eternal Extravaganza 2 on: March 17, 2015, 05:29:35 am
Congratulations to your performance and the report. It was very interesting to see your reasoning in deck construction. On behalf of remora, I'd like to add that I still think it deserves a bit more consideration than just saying it's blue on blue cannibalism. It's certainly a very strong card in any control match (as you experienced in our games on cockatrice) but it's also good against MUD on the play, often turning into a pseudo time walk or draw 2-3. In combination with hurkyl's (which you don't run in your list) it's also very strong. Against Oath it's obviously very good, too. I think it could even be played as a singleton or 2-of, because in my experience, it's a nice midgame topdeck. The only situation where you don't want to draw it is when your opponent already has tons of mana (6+) or is on humans / merfolk. Against Pyromancer decks, it's a very strong card in my experience. On top of that,  it plays nicely with dig through time / gush (if played right) / notion thief (thief in your upkeep with remora trigger on the stack when you don't want to maintain it anymore) and obviously repeal. But I understand if you think it's not necessary or not that strong in your particular metagame.

Looking forward to testing your deck.
17  Vintage Community Discussion / General Community Discussion / Re: Vintage Super League Season 2 Week 4-6 Predictions & Discussion on: March 04, 2015, 04:49:12 pm
In game 2 week four against Randy on merfolk, Steve should have cast as many spells as possible and then used swords to plowshares on one of his prowessed-up tokens, so that he would have gained enough life to win next turn no matter what.

18  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [DTK] Narset Transcendent on: March 04, 2015, 01:07:28 pm
I believe the interaction he was refering to with Yawg Will was that Will exiles it self upon resolution and would not be in the yard.  If you rebound Yaw Will cast from your hand, it would go into exile with rebound and be cast again the next turn.

This is true.  Any cards you cast from your hand during a Will turn will give you the option of exiling them with Narset or with Will.  (Psst choose Narset)

3. I don't see how you get to a "win for Jace" here. She ultimates 3 turns after playing her. Her ultimate wins the game in vintage (I know... there are exceptions).

Because Jace actually wins instantly by disrupting your opponent while he ticks up.  Whenever you get Jace in a situation where you are winning on board, and your opponent has a small hand, his fateseal ability does a very, very good job of ensuring nothing else happens until he ultimates.  So, yes, it takes him longer to get there, but he keeps his boot on the throat of your opponent the whole time.  Narset conditionally does that if you're drawing disruption with her, but she doesn't do it all on her own.

You're right. The "Whenever you get Jace in a situation where you are winning on board, and your opponent has a small hand" part suggests this isn't the case at all times. you often have to get there first. I know i have won many games with Jace fateseal, but usually I had to use his brainstorm ability a few times before getting to that point (e.g. having some counters in hand). With narset, the opponent's hand size doesn't matter too much. You gain card advantage while putting the opponent on a 3 turn clock all on her own. (Jace wins all on his own, too. I'm not going to say this is better than jace.)
19  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: [DTK] Narset Transcendent on: March 04, 2015, 12:36:06 pm
Oh yes, she will be really nice. The thing with kiora was that she works with gush only. Once. or twice. Then dies. Kiora draws 2 extra cards in the best case scenario, and you get to explore twice. Which would be nice with the card gush, but otherwise pretty useless most of the time.

Narset on the other hand... Draws cards while ticking up to a game-ending ultimate (I heard cantrips and sensei's top were good on their own), starting with 6/7 loyalty (which basically protects itself just like that) and turns most spells into game-ending must counters.


1.   Narset's +1 is not as good as Jace's +0.  Win for Jace.
2.   Narset's casting cost requires you to be playing White, but once you are, is easier than Jace's to cast.  Wash.
3.   Narset does not disrupt your opponent while building to her ult.  On the other hand, she draws you gas while she's building to her ult, and she gets there far more quickly.  Win for Jace.
4.   Narset does NOT add to the removal slots in your deck, while Jace does.  Win for Jace.
5.   Narset has no innate way of protecting herself.  On the other hand, she starts with a ridiculously high loyalty, and her +1 ability is always relevant as a way to keep her in there.  Unless you're swinging in with Golems or Tinkerbots, Narset is hard to kill quickly in a Vintage game.  Wash.
6.   Narset's second ability is crazy good with spells in Vintage, moreso than any other format.  Giving anything on the restricted list Rebound -- multiple times -- for free on the turn you do it -- is potentially Earth-shatteringly good in this format.  Would you play "Seal of Fork" if you could and it cost 4 mana and you could use it 2 - 3 times before it went away?  I think you might.  Advantage Narset.


1. Yes, Jacestorm is a better effect. Jace stays in bolt range if you do this every turn though. Narset is at 7 loyalty the turn you play it.
2. You're playing white, yes, because you want monastery mentor as well.
3. I don't see how you get to a "win for Jace" here. She ultimates 3 turns after playing her. Her ultimate wins the game in vintage (I know... there are exceptions).
4. that's true. But, if you're staring down at two creatures, you use her -2, then cast swords to plowshares and it will get rid of two creatures for one removal slot. Need to have it in hand though. Jace is still better at this.
5. Jace is dying quickly nowadays when people are playing bolts and 3/2 flying insects and stuff. Narset absorbs a lot of damage if the opponent wants to go that way. I think this is pretty relevant.
6. Yeah, that second ability is crazy good. If you play this with restricted spells it's very often game over. If you pair it with gush you get the "Kiora effect" (kind of): Draw 2 cards now and 2 cards next turn, +1 CA, -1 land compared to kiora. And a planeswalker with 4 loyalty compared to 1.

I mean, even with preordain it's sick. scry 2, draw 1 and again next turn? yes, please.

7. Ah, and rebound is crazy good with mentor, just for the win-more factor.
8. Ah, and notion thief doesn't blow you out, compared to jace Wink. (especially if you're rebounding dig through time)

I agree that she's the deal. The best thing would be to combine her with Jace. Both are good, insane as a team. Still can't have two Jaces on the battlefield.
20  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: LCV 2014 Year Summary - Deck Analysis and Statistics on: January 05, 2015, 01:42:04 pm
this is an awesome review! Thanks again for all the effort you're putting into this.
Happy new year of course.
21  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: [Top Deck Games] Sat, Nov 22nd Vintage $1k! Top 8 Decklists, Metagame Breakdown! on: November 27, 2014, 04:52:58 am
Thank you for the report!  5 delver decks and 0 in the top 8.

This was pre Cruise though Lance, just proving how powerful the card is in that deck.

I'm not sure I understand your sentence. Nov 22, the oath player certainly plays dig through time, the OP states that "A strong showing from Workshops/Oath really kept Treasure Cruise down, locking it out of the top 8 entirely."
22  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: C14 - Titania, Protector of Argoth on: October 29, 2014, 04:19:20 am
Guys. You have to Zuran Orb your lands away obviously!  Wink
23  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Treasure Cruise on: October 27, 2014, 05:18:48 pm
Horray, it's the old "this card is unplayable – restrict it!" reflex again! How I missed you.
It was so funny to watch the same thing going on with jace. Where's jace, by the way?

Rest assured, people will figure out how to hate on UR delvers, Treasure Cruise, etc. But I think you have to accept it as a new force by now. (Even if treasure cruise would be restricted: 1 cruise, 1 dig, 2 other slots. No big deal.)

The only constructive idea here was to unrestrict other draw engines. It doesn't make "blue" better, it just lets people choose what to run. Dark confidant on the other hand... he might suffer, as he was on the decline even before KTK. He has always been "the best bad draw engine".
24  Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: UR Delver on: September 22, 2014, 11:09:20 am
I think it's pointless to play this deck without any way to gain card advantage. The good thing about this deck is that you can play it without power, but you should still play gush. Even with wastelands. Honeslty I don't see the reason to not play gush and you didn't explain this either, which I think you should... I mean, it's a gush deck after all. The decision to cut snapcasters I can understand: The primary reason to play them - ancestral recall - is gone. The deck surely looks quite aggressive, which I like. I don't like that you don't have a single card that nets you card advantage.

To put in the 4 gushes (you can also just play 3, but I would strongly recommend to play 4), I would cut 4 of the following 5 cards:

1 mental misstep (3 are enough in my experience, Menendian also went to 3)
1 daze
1 gitaxian probe
1 wasteland
1 null rod

I think two null rods are enough, because multiples do nothing, and I also think 3 wastelands are enough, especially if you play gush. You don't try to hard lock your opponents, just take away some tempo.
25  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Treasure Cruise on: September 12, 2014, 12:46:24 pm
Like jace?
26  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Dig through Time on: September 12, 2014, 12:41:57 pm
It's probably better than Mystical Tutor and Fact or Fiction in many situations.

I think this is absolutely the correct question to ask.  Is this card actually better than a tutor effect? 

But I still don't see any compelling reason why Dig -- on it's best day, when the yard is full of chaff -- is really better than tutors.  The only edge it has over Demonic is that it is instant speed.  The only edge it has over Vampiric and Mystical is that you get the card right away, but since you can do this right before you draw anyway, that's just paying U to draw a card on top of the tutor.  I think you have a harder time justifying running Dig over these cards that you're giving credit for.

Assuming you can't really explain why you would cut tutors for Dig, the next question is whether you run both.  Is there a deck out there that would really want that kind of effect badly enough to add a fourth or fifth conditional tutor like that?

I think this evaluation of yours is way off the mark.
This is not a 1 for 1 tutor, and not a card disadvantage tutor. It is card advantage, combined with search. It finds you the best 2 out of 7 cards. It does not compete with tutors in a deck at all. You run tutors like in every other big blue deck. tutor for this card eot for example, protect it with counter magic when it only costs 2 or 3 mana, for example. Or you just cast it EOT as a must counter or in response to a threat. just because it digs deep doesn't mean that's why you play it. This card is insane card selection combined with card advantage right there!

The downsides are still there, but it seems you are underestimating the effect it provides. I assure you, if this card was just 1UU, it would be restricted. It's true that it competes with bomb slots, such as gifts, jace, fact or fiction, timetwister, thirst for knowledge. not gush though. That card is an engine this is a bomb.  

Also, this card is almost certainly better than treasure cruise: they cost the same unless in god-mode, cruise draws 3, but at random, one out of 3 cards is often a blank in a specific situation, this card is an instant. We all know we like instants.
(UU Treasure cruise would be better than ancestral recall i believe)
27  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Dig through Time on: September 11, 2014, 09:19:25 am
Yeah, Impulse is another comparator.  This card is like casting Impulse twice in a row, almost.
Drawing two cards for two mana is not tremendously exciting.  I think you're right that that role is like Impulse; a dig card.  A card to blow past the chaff and get what you want.

Well, drawing two cards for two mana is certainly exciting (see night's whisper etc.) but at instant speed it's even more exciting. If you compare this effect to fact or fiction's: fact usually draws you two or three cards out of the top 5, divided into the least synergistic piles, for 4 mana.

This card draws you the best two out of 7 cards, which is usually about 1/7 of your deck. If you remove 4 cards for it, you're casting it at 2UU.
a very good effect for a reasonable price. Now, the delve cost itself, the conditionality is the problem here, as with treasure hunt. You need to have 4-6 cards in your graveyard and be willing to exile them. The card will have to be tested.


28  Eternal Formats / General Strategy Discussion / Re: Treasure Cruise on: September 10, 2014, 08:40:40 am
I think this is a fine common. It will need a bit of building around, but if you manage to put 4 cards into your graveyard quickly, you pay 2U to draw 3 cards. Great late game bomb.
It kind of reminds me of thoughtcast's bigger brother: potentially very strong, but hosed hard by a few cards: leyline, deathrite shaman and rest in peace, where it becomes absolutely uncastable postboard. Hilarious to drain this and hardcast your blightsteel afterwards.

Overall, I'd say it won't see a lot of play but could pop up in some dedicated combo-esque builds. the synergy with draw7s is there (even with twister: if you play this card before twister, you can thin your library really nicely).
29  Vintage Community Discussion / Rules Q&A / Notion Thiefs, replacement effects on: September 08, 2014, 08:59:57 am
Relevant Text of Notion thief:
If an opponent would draw a card except the first one he or she draws in each of his or her draw steps, instead that player skips that draw and you draw a card.

Nr. 1:
Player A controls 1 Notion thief, player B plays ponder. Player A draws 1 card.
Player A controls 2 Notion thief, player B plays ponder. Player A draws 1 card.
Player A controls 1 Notion thief, player B controls 1 notion thief, plays ponder. Player B draws 1 card.

Now it gets complicated:
Player A controls 2 Notion thief, player B controls 1 notion thief, plays ponder. Player A draws 1 card.
My interpretation of how things work:
Player B would draw a card, Player A's Notion Thief (one of the two is selected) replaces that with "player A draws 1 card",
Player B's Notion Thief replaces that with "Player B draws 1 card", player A's other notion thief replaces that with "player A draws a card". Now, all replacement effects have been applied once, therefore they cannot apply again. --> Player A draws a card.

Is this correct?

Nr. 2:
Player A controls 1 Notion thief, player B activates bazaar of bagdhad. Player A draws 2 cards, player B discards 3.

Player A controls 1 Notion thief, player B activates bazaar of bagdhad with dredge cards in his graveyard. Player B chooses which replacement effect to apply (dredge, probably).

Is this correct?
30  Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: A Primer to UW Control on: August 03, 2014, 01:28:38 pm
One of the best primers I've read so far. Truly great.

I'd recommend looking at this European List as well (took 2nd in a 53 man tournament in January), which features stoneforge mystic together with the ever so mystic remora: http://morphling.de/top8decks.php?id=1862&highlight=Mystic_Remora.

This strategy has a good mix of strength versus gush and combo (without spirit of the labyrinth) while still representing stoneforge mystic against shops and creatures (THE weakness of remora).
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