I'm not experienced with this deck, I'll admit it. How do you beat threshold siding out those 7 cards? Just rely on the tutors for the one of and go off slower?
It seems like you're relying on Leyline in play to start, do you mull agressively to it?

Lol. That's the kind of idealogoy that epitomizes the United States of America. You sir are the type of person that is wrong with this world. "Who cares about that homeless person? There are a millions more, why help him, why not the other guy?"

First off, Roland didn't ASK for anything. People are WILLINGLY donating these cards to him. Something unfortunate happened to him, and it is our job (the more forunate) to help him out.

Sure, the situation could have prevented, but that's true for everything. You can prevent everything by being more careful, but that only really sinks in once something bad happens to you.

Kindness in this world is often overshadowed with the bad. What we have to realize is that selfishness accomplishes nothing. How many people are on this site? Lets say 500. If everybody chipped in $5 dollars, or even $10, thats $2500-$5000. We can help Roland get back to where he used to be. Roland is out not only his own cards, but friends' cards as well. To say that this act of kindness is "greedy" is ridiculous. People get shafted, and it should be our job to help them on their feet again.

Do I need to quote the Bible, cause I will.

 

Are Orim's Chants THAT good? Aren't duresses in the combo mirror just as good if not better?

Is Pitch Long that much better vs. Stax? I mean Misdirections are essentially dead game 1. Game 2, both decks have good plans vs. Stax.

I think IT has proven that it  just can't stand up to Pitch Long. Pitch Long is the new IT.

I would think it is a lot easier to show you have nothing with one mana open, than with two.

In a combo heavy metagame, which version do you think is better to run? 5c Pitch Long, or normal Pitch Long?

1. What do you predict the turnout to be? 165 1 point
2. How many Force of Wills do you expect to see in the Top 8? 12 2 points
3. How many Swords to Plowshares in the Top 8? 8 2 points
4. How many Wastelands in the Top 8? 12 1 point
5. How many Standard-legal cards in the Top 8? 30 1 point
6. In the top 8, what will be the most popular:
a. Blue card: Brainstorm 2 points
b. White card: Swords to Plowshares 2 points
c. Green card: Werebear 2 points
d. Red card: Goblin Lackey 2 points
e. Black card: Duress 0 points
f. Gold card: Meddling Mage 0 points
g. artifact: Aether Vial 0 points
h. non-land card (most popular of 6a-g): Brainstorm 3 points
7. What's the most common basic land type in the Top 8? Island 0 points
8. What's the most common dual land in the Top 8? Tropical Island 1 points
9. Goblins in the T8? (yes or no) Yes 1 point
10. Threshold (UWG) in the T8? (yes or no) Yes 0 points
11. Threshold (other) in the T8? (yes or no) No 0 points
12. Survival.dec in the T8? (yes or no) No 1 point
13. High Tide in the T8? (yes or no) Yes 0 points
14. BW Deadguy Ale (Disruption) in the T8? (yes or no) Yes 0 points
15. What's going to be the highest placing combination deck? High Tide 0 points

BONUS
14. ______________ [deck] will take first place. High Tide 0 points
15. The winner will be: ______________. (Specific player name) Mike Herbig 0 points

Total: 21 points

Well, as few probably know, Canadian Nats was held in Ottawa this past weekend. As they do every year, a Legacy Championship tournament was held as a side event. First prize was for 2 of each dual, a foil regrowth, foil dci meddling mage, foil dci intuition and foil dci mihsra's factory in addition to 12 packs of italian legends.

That being said, it was certainly a nice prize to shoot for. Seeing as most people at Canadian Nats would be playing in the main event, I was hoping the turnout would be small and easy. I was certainly right about the small part. I think the final tally was about 34 players. Not bad when first place would amount to over 500 dollars of prizes, with second amounting at at least 200. Anyway, I decided I wanted to try my luck with Solidarity. I have NEVER played legacy before, let alone Solidarity. I consider myself a good player, and I am active in T1, and all other constructed and limited formats (save legacy). Hopefully, my play skill could carry me with what I thought to be a powerful deck. I knew the matchups, and I knew how to play each one. I was just afraid I might forget to play around specific cards, etc... Anyway, without further ado, I present you the list I ran:

Solidarity

4 Brainstorm
4 Force Of Will
4 High Tide
4 Impulse
4 Remand
4 Reset
4 Meditate
3 Cunning Wish
3 Turnabout
2 Brain Freeze
2 Flash Of Insight
2 Opt
2 Peek

12 Island
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta   

Sideboard:
4 Hydroblast
4 Disrupt
2 Brain Freeze
1 Chain Of Vapour
1 Echoing Truth
1 Words of Wisdom
1 Stroke Of Genius
1 Turnabout

Quick notes on the deck. This list is VERY similar to David Gearheart's list from the Feb 2006 Duel for Duals. I removed the maindeck twincast to max out my meditates. In the board, I removed the evac, twincast, and the meditate (as it was now main) and added in 2 brainfreezes and a words of wisdom. The brain freezes were ABSOLUTELY essential. On to my mini-report.

Round 1 vs. RW Angel Stompy

This is a bye. For anyone who knows Legacy even a little, Solidarity SMASHES white cased control/aggro decks. I can wait as long as I wish to go off. The only cards I have to keep an eye out for are Armageddon, Abeyance and Rule of Law. Game 1 goes just as planned. Game 2, I'm an idiot. I keep a 4 land hand with 3 Resets. Just to make matters worse, and show what an awful player I really am, I draw my 4th Reset. Slowly but surely, he beats me down thatnks to a trun 4 Exalted Angel. My fault 100%. Game 3, I smarten up, and mulligan a bad hand. My hand of 6 is better, and I smash him good.

1-0

Round 2 vs. Goblins

Hmm. I think I might be forgetting this one a little bit. I can't remeber if he pulled of a game. This matchup is pretty much a race. Game 1 he has lethal on the stack, but I am able to go off. He made a critical play error, although I forget what it was. He did play a turn 1 lacky though :S
Game 2 he won. I don't know how, but I know he did.
Game 3 sucked. I mulligan to 5...on the play. He's like good, this deck cant go off on turn 4 on the play. Or can it. I play land go, and on turn 2 cast impulse. Turn 3 I think I cast opt. At the end of turn three, my hand is land, reset, high tide with three lands in play. I reminded my opponent, that I really only need three cards to win: Reset, High Tide, and Meditate. I tap my deck, and sure enough, I top deck meditate while staring lethal for next turn. Instead of just entering his attack phase and making me kill him then, he plays fanatic, fanatic and piledriver. I combo off on his declaratio of attack phase, using those 3 free storm spells I showed him I had it anyway.
P.S. Flash of Insight is RIDICULOUS. I actually used it once to stack my deck. That was fun.

2-0

Round 3 vs. Goblins (Kyle Babin)

Round 3 is against a friend of mine. We wrestle with the option of of drawing, so as not to hurt each other's chances, and with being at the low end of 6 rounds, it was certainly feasible without being afraid of losing on breakers. We end up playing, and I'm glad we do. Game 1 he gets off to a pretty slow goblin start, playing matron as his first action, and cycling a couple gempalms. Needless to say, I go off uncontested.
Game 2 I know he brings in Armageddons. I play carefully around them, and have the force for the one he does play, as he tells me "It kills my lands too, don't counter it". I am able to go off the following turn.

3-0

Round 4 vs. UGW Thresh (Mike Guethro) (Sp?)

About time I face a bad matchup. He plays a turn 2 meddling mage both games. that is the 1 hate card I don't wanna have to deal with. He is able to beat me down before I find both answers to the mage and threats. Fortunately for him, I draw no answers, and he has tons of counter magic. I'm not bitter I expect it.

3-1

Round 5 vs. UGB Grow (J.P. Brichta)

Another good friend of mine. Me and JP were just testing this matchup earlier, about 30 minutes before the tourney started. I didn't win a single game out of at least 4. Of course, they were pre-board.
Game 1 was quite the game. I knew how I had to play in order to beat thresh. They run just too many counterspells to go off legitmately. So, the plan was to build up a hand full of counter magic and at least 2 brain freezes (with the help of wish). They rarely counter EOT wishes, because they are irrelevant. I get to a point where I play Reset eot, after he cast a mongoose. He forces, I respond with reset, he forces, I force back, and he casts his fourth force (one was remvoed). From that point, I go on massive tilt. I was holding double freeze in hand, with only 2 mana available, and not 4. The freezes would have been lethal.

For games 2 and three, the plan is to side in disrupts and the 2 freezes to go off in a counter war. Let him add to your storm count.
Game 2
I don't remember fully what exactly happened, but I was able to combo off thanks to disrupt.

Game 3
There were about 6 minutes left to play in the round. I'd be happy with a draw against thresh. He definetly would not. He shuffles like a fiend, while I mulligan. He keeps an agressive hannd andd proceeds to go turn 2 dryiad, turn 3 dryiad. He dazes an opt to pump the dryiad, and continues the aggro. On turn 4, I try to go off with reset high tide while he is forced to tap out after playing a couple spells. I'm like, you cant have the force. He shows me force, so I show him dsirupt. OWNED!!! From there, I go off with ease!

4-1

I check the standings, and I can easily draw in, as long as I don't get paired down...

Round 6 - Extended Heartbeat Combo

I sit down, and it's obvious this guy doesn't want to play. However, his record is 3-0-2. A draw just makes him a 4-2. We spend like 10 minutes talking about, searching for the standings (someone threw them out). Alas, we find them in the garbage, and proceed to do some math. I see that my breakers are insane, and realize that I can 100% take a loss. I decide to scoop the guy in, and sure enough, I finish 8th, beating out 9th by 12%. However, I realize what this means, I have to play Mike G again. (UGW threshold).

The Top 8 had the following archetypes:

2x UGW Thresh
2x Goblins
1x BW Pikula
1x UGB Gro
1x Heartbeat Extended Combo
1x Solidarity (me)

Pretty diverse for a 34 person tournament.

Quarterfinals vs. Mike Guethro playing UGW Threshold.

Game 1
Miraculously, I am able to fight through his counter magic, and somehow win game 1. We both know what a huge advantage that is.

Game 2
He drops an early nimble mongoose, followed by meddling mage and rides both of those to victory.

Game 3
This game turned out to be quite exciting, at least the end. He drops down some early beats (via mongooses). I draw some cards, hitting all my drops, and developing a strong hand. At the end of of his fourth or fifth turn, I peek him, to reveal force, force, counter spell aramageddon. People in the crowd can be heard saying, "Well, thats game" not knowing I like what I see. He has 5 lnads in play. Next turn, he attacks, and considers playing armageddon. It seems he goes against his first instinct to hold back, and actually does cast it. I reset in response, he forces, I force back, and essentially, thats the game.

My brother also made t8, and won his first round. Predictably, we were paired in the T4 against each other. We quickly agree on a prize split, and deicde that either way, its better that I play against the winner of the  other semis match (BW vs. Goblins). Goblins ends up winning, which is fortunate for me. Goblins is MUCH better for me than BW. However, we discuss a four way split, as the other semis match were two friends, who agreed on the same split. In the end, I ended taking home 5 duals, a foil meddling mage, a foil intuition, and a foil regrowth, while my brother grabbed 5 duals, 13 italian legends packs, and a foil dci regrowth. I also actually received the two byes at Gen Con, but unfortunately, will not be going.

All in all, it was a great tournament, and made me realize how much I LOVE Solidarity.

Peace
Ryan Trepanier


 

At the moment, I am running both Chain and Recall. I essentially removed a Spirit Guide for the second bounce spell, and removed the last guide for a cabal ritual. It makes Xantid swarm a little harder to cast, but I think it is a necessary sacrifice. There isn't too much Stax in my meta (down here in Canada), so the ESGs aren't missed all that much. They might find a way into the board though.

Stupid question, what do you take out vs. Stax, assuming you're siding in about 12 cards.

Duresses and swarm for sure. Regrowth seems right. But after those 6, I'm a little stuck. Are draw 7s good against stax? I would imagine they are...

That's the kind of answer I wanted. The answer I got from a team member was:

"It's awesome with lotus, produces 1 extra mana"

Albeit, one extra mana is fine, as well as the +2 to your storm count, it is just not worth a slot for that. I suppose Regrowth will have to stay in the MD.

Consult isn't right in Long. It IS right in Meandeck Tendrills. Infact, it's perfect in that list, that's why Stephen runs 5 of them (1 Consult, 4 Spoils).

@Nightmare

The only hate that makes burning wish good is Extract. What hate from Stax, Slaver, Gifts, Oath, Goblins, etc... is going to be so bad that you need a Burning Wish for Tendrils. In my experience, Burning Wish was used for protection from extract. It probably doesn't have to be in the deck, and I will most likely remove it, but when it was, it was there for security reasons.

After Game 1, you know what you're playing. I'd rather have cards that actually do thing vs. the above metioned decks. The problem with B. Wish, and it's always been a problem in 90% of the decks it is in, is that unlike every other Tutor, it's a dead card most of the time. It's really only useful as you're about to win, and that rare opportunity when you fetch a Utitlity card (in Long's case, Balance).

The OLNY fear you can have is facing three duresses with Tendrils, Will and Twister in hand. THEN, Burning Wish would come in handy. Otherwise, it seems like a waste of a slot. In a deck that is SOOO tight, you need to maximize your space. Wish does not do that.

Still on the topic of Grim Long's build, what does everyone think of Regrowth. I'm personally not a fan of this card. It seems like it's not particularily useful 90% of the time, although Regrowth for Recall sounds like fun. Is this card a staple, or replacable? Thoughts...

I also run a Burning Wish in my main. But I find it is next to useless Game 2 and 3. It very often gets sided out.

Duress is usually just better against drain decks then force is as well...I think Steve underestimates Duress. I'm still not sold on FoW.

Typical answer from a T1 player. You just like being able to search as much as possible. You like having the comfort of knowing you have a choice. Burning wish does nothing in normal situations. It does nothing in the mirror, except take up the place of a useful card. Sure, there may be one situation where rolling earthquake will be used to tie a game, but for every one time that happens, you will lose the game twice because burning wish took up two extra mana, whereas tendrils would have won you the game.
For 2 mana, burning wish does three things. Fetches a board kill spell you shouldn't need. An artifact kill spell that you shouldn't need, or be able to cast, and tendrills, which should be main deck.

First off, Rolling Earthquake is bad. I can think of only one situation where Earthquake is better than pyroclasm. Secondly, what are you destroying with Ruin that you can't bounce for a turn and get around. And how are you producing the mana to ruin, let's say a chalice or rod. All the decks that play those cards (with the exception of fish), win/lock you out on turn 3 or four anyway, so how are you able to generate that 4 mana with chalice/rod/tangle wire/smokestack in play. Also, this is a combo style Slaver build. That 2 mana is unecessary. Why worry about his creatures when you can just set up and go off. Even if he has a Meddling Mage, he isn't naming Tendrills. Heck, he shouldn't know that you even run a Tendrills win.

But seriously, Wish is way too situational to be good. So what, you can deal with everything. So can your three main deck bounce spells.

I understand what it is used for, but if you have ever played this deck (original BS), like I've been doing since January, you realize how clunky and unecessary the wish really is. Chain of Vapour/Rebuild should usually be able to do the trick. And why would you ever need to Burning Wish for Time Walk after playing Yawgmoth's Will. If you haven't won yet, you're doing something wrong. I find that Vintage players just like tutoring for something, rather than play the copy of the card they are most likely to tutor for. You also don't want to use the Wish early, incase Tendrills win is your only option. Play with the card, and you will ifnd you hate to see it, unless you're in the process of going off.

Echoing Ruin hits a Chalice for 1 for the cost of 1R. Shattering Spree can also hit a Chalice for one, but for the cost of RR. Since Chalice and/or Null Rod are the most common artifacts that you're killing, it is more effecient to run Ruin. Also, I doubt he has a foil japanese shattering spree, but has one of Echoing Ruin That would also make a lot of snese.

Keeping in topic of the "go big or go home" aspect. Why not remove Mindslaver and Tormod's Crypt to include the Mizzium Transreliquat combo. It is affected by the same hate as Mindslaver, but wins you the game outright, whereas Mindslaver doesn't. It doesn't happen all that often, but there are times where you can lose after activating a slaver. Also, slaver is just plain bad against some decks, whereas infinite turns is never bad (unless you have no library, or a Mana Crypt at a low life total). Tormod's crypt just seems wrong in a comboish style of control slaver. Bounce is always good (especially when it cycles or acts as a hurkyl's recall.

Also, Burning Wish is just bad. If you want the Tendrills win, run a Tendrills. I have found that burning wish is just a dead card a lot of the time. With Tendrills, its not expected in the MD, and is useful when you're in need of life.

As for the number of welders, I'd run 3 as the deck is now, or 2 if you put in the secondary combo. Mizzium can be dead useful as well. I hear there are a ton of artifacts in T1. Namely Darksteel Collossus, Sundering Titan, Crucible, etc...

Anyway, just my thoughts on a deck I have poured much time and effort in.

Thats pretty dangerous too. It is easy to go back after something happened and say, ya I should have vhad this in my board, etc... Thats like folding 2-7 off, and the flopp coming 772. Was that a bad decision? No. In retrospect, sure it was.

I agree that luck plays a small factor. But it still certainly does. You can't decide to mulligan based on an opponents hand. So your decision to keep or mulligam may cause you to lose a game whereas had you done the opposite, you would have likely won. A good example is the control mirror (slaver). On the draw, Library of Alexandria is absoulutely golden. Your opponent on the play may have duresses and or strip in his hand, but cant seriously mulligan to 6 in order to beat a hand with Library. It

In my mind, it is "lucky" when my opponenet draws the one card I can't deal with, and completely owns me. Just like it is lucky when the Grim Long player draws Lotus. As Steve has said before, he RARELY loses when Lotus is in his starting hand. That's not a matter of skill. That is luck. You have to be lucky to be good. Plain and simple.

Here's my play:

Play Undergound Sea, tap for black. Cast Dark Ritual. Use 2 black to play Demonic Tutor for Black Louts. Play Lotus. If all these spells have resolved, sac lotus for BLUE. Cast Brainstorm. Depnding on the brainstorm, you can either win that turn, or cast Grim Tutor off Cabal Ritual, leaving you to refuel as necessary. Thats certainly the most explosive play. And Round 1, Game 1, thats the way I would want to play it. Nothing puts an opponent on tilt like turn 1, on the play, Win. And, this hand beats Force of Will. If they force your lotus (or Demonic or Ritual), you come back with your own force, and set up a safe turn 2 win.

City of Brass
Brainstorm
Mox Jet
Sol Ring
Imperial Seal
Demonic Tutor
Grim Tutor

I think Stephen made the right play. Brainstorm, before anything else. He saw:

Dark Ritual
Wheel of Fortune
Time Walk

from the brainstorm. I'd put back Time Walk and Grim Tutor. Imperial Seal for Black Lotus. Play Jet and Sol Ring. Your hand is now:

Demonic, Wheel, Dark Ritual.

Turn 2 you draw the lotus.

Play Ritual before anything, off the Jet. It should resolve. If it doesn't you play the lotus. If that resolves, you should be free to Demonic for ritual to up your storm, and cast Wheel with three black floating and 5 spells played. If the Ritual and Lotus resolve but the Wheel is countered, you Demonic for Necro.

I think thats the best line of play. It beats Force of Will, but admitedly loses to Mana Drain AND Force or Double Force. In the article, someone suggested this line of play, but just slightly different. #1, they didn't play Sol Ring which I think is a mistake. That extra one coloured mana is crucial (you need the jet to play the ring), more important than a storm count of two.

Secondly, the person would have you lead off with Necro, expecting it to get countered, and cast Wheel afterwards, but with no mana floating (one if you played Ring the turn before), but without laying a land. If you cast wheel first, you can cast DT for Necro with an empty pool, or have the Wheel resolve with a full one. That line is a little more win-win. Besides, it is probably more important that you have Necro resolve after a Force of Will, than Wheel resolving with not much mana in pool.

My 2 cents.

You're playing against me I am calm, and talking a little trash, because you're arrogant (Ref. to another thread, i hope menendian gets this:P). I didn't mulligan, you're on the play. How do you play this hand now?

Just assume its round of SCG Rochester, and you don't know who your opponent is, or what he's planning.

I totally forgot about Necro. So is that the play? Turn 1 Necro? I think it is...

I was originally among those that thought walk was bad in Grim Long. That card is AMAZING in long. When Walk is in your hand, you play differently of course, and you usually win. Storm is EXTREMELY easy to achieve in Grim Long. Walk is crucial. What are everyone's thoughts on Regrowth. I am not a big fan of the card... I have it in my board as a Wish target. Burning Wish has won me nearly half a dozen games where Regrowth wouldn't have helped much.

I ended up doing the twister play, drew windfall and mana off the twister, and then time walk off the windfall.

Menendian asked for play situations with Grim Long, and I have decided to conorm. I have been fooling around with the deck A LOT!!! Every once in a while, I come up with hands where the play isn't very clear. Much like this one. You're on the play, not knowing you're opponent or his deck. Here's the hand:

Lotus Petal
Lion's Eye Diamond
Duress
Brainstorm
City of Brass
Grim Tutor
Elvish Spirit Guide

You're presented with a couple of first turn options. You could:
A) Duress, and then pretty much pass the turn
B) Play the Brainstorm, and then depending on what you draw, either pass or get lucky
C) This is the play I saw, though I am not sure if it is right. Play the petal, the diamond, and city. Tap the city, sac the petal, and remove ESG to play Grim Tutor, in response pop the Diamond for blue. Get Timetwister. Draw 7. Any other options I may be missing?

Also, please feel free to post your own play situations...

If you want a second bounce spell, I think it should be Hurkyl's Recall, not a second chain.

Also, in testing, I absolutely LOVE Burning Wish. ATM, I have cut Regrowth to make room for it, pushing Regrowth to the board, although I could conceivably move 1 Duress to the board instead of Regrowth.

Are Elvish Spirit Guides ABSOLUTELY necessary?

Well, here is my SB. My MD is card for card from Menedian's Day 2. The only change is -1 Regrowth, +1 Burning Wish.

Sideboard
4x Force of Will
3x Xantid Swarm
3x Chain of Vapour
2x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Balance
1x Regrowth
1x Tendrils of Agony

In the small amount of testing I have done, I absolutely LOVE Time Walk. Menedian was right for sure, it is AMAZING!!!!

I'd appreciate some constructive criticism. The one card in the MD that I have come to absolutely hate is Spirit Guide.