I love crucible in a deck like this. but for crucible you'll need some fetchlands, I'd say bloodstaind mines so you can still name polluted delta with needle.

but even just fetch ritual crucible first turm makes it so you'll never miss a land drop, and you are already running waste land and strip

You have too many rituals and high tides with sideboard,


I really like the High Tide, Cloud of Faeries and Snap

turn 2, with 2 lands,

tap one land,
high tide,
tap the other, UU floating
play cloud, untap both lands 0 floating
tap both lands, UUUU floating
snap cloud, untap both lands, UU floating.
tap both lands, UUUUUU floating,
play cloud again, untap both lands. UUUU floating.

so now you have 4 blue mana and 2 untaped lands, to do with what you'd like.

what I would do, would be

-4 acumilated knowledge
-4 dreams grip
-1 necropotence
-2 grim tutor
-2 dark ritual (maybe keep the one in sideboard to wish for)

+4 Cloud Of Faeries
+4 Snap
+3 Meditate
+1 Frantic Search
+1 Time Spiral

I really like Time Spiral in this because in the example above, which isn't hard to do at all since everything is a 4 of, you could time spiral with 2 mana in your pool plus then your lands untap. with atleast 6 mana availible you should be able to do a lot.


actually I also might go.

- the other 2 rituals, for Vampiric tutor, and Fact or Fiction.

EDIT:-----
For your deck, and untapping you could always look at
Snap: http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=8222 (which could also use as protection),
Cloud Of Faeries: http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=8020 and
Frantic Search: http://sales.starcitygames.com/carddisplay.php?product=8062
------------


Sorry I can't be of much help with your current deck, but I used to play this "mono black" tendrils budget deck a lot. I really liked it. Not sure if you want to stay blue but this could be an idea.


This was the last list we were on.

Mana: 31
2 bayou
1 badlands
1 swamp
3 bloodstained mire
1 lotus petal
1 chrome mox
1 mox diamond
1 mox jet
1 mox ruby
1 black lotus
1 lion's eye diamond
1 mana crypt
3 land grant
3 cabal ritual
4 dark ritual
4 culling the weak

Creatures for culling: 8
4 crookshank kobolds
4 crimson kobold

Tutor: 3
1 vamipric tutor
1 demonic tutor
1 demonic consultation

Draw: 12
1 wheel of fortune
4 cruel bargain
3 night's whisper
1 infernal contract
1 memory jar
1 necropotence
1 skull clamp

Win: 4
3 tendrils of agony
1 yawgmoths will

Protection: 3
3 duress


It is really not that difficult to play, since really all you are doing is getting mana, then drawing cards, then more mana, then more cards.

Here is kinda a turny report from the last tournament we brought the thing too, which my friend and co creator playing the deck. http://www.untouchables.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=30

I'd probably want to fit yawg bargain, which if you can get out before loosing a ridiculous amount of life to the draw 4s is good game. Plus probably the 4th duress. Since that is the only protection from anything.

It is a fun deck.


I have tried to add blue to it. Add the rest of the moxes; add academy, then twister, recall and minds desire. Went to unmask instead of duress. I think lost the kobolds, can’t remember.

But yeah. The deck is a lot of fun to play, and can turn one fairly frequently.

Personally I think if you are running a non powered oath you should run chrome mox and mox diamond, because upping the amount of times you can first turn oath is a good thing.

I'd probably cut the three edicts for Chains of Mephistopheles since your only draw is Bob and necro, chains doesn't effect you at all. and take the shades out for Mesmeric Fiend.

basically 8 duresses, 4 hymns, then with chains, they aren't going to have a hand for that long, and negator is enough for beats.

but, the only bad thing about mono black is it has no answers at all for anything that actually makes it to the table. or if you didn't have a layline, and they topdeck will and just win. I'd want to splash blue for maybe some bounce, because main deck bounce I think is a lot better then edicts because for most of the creatures you want to really kill, putting them in the players hand is almost better then killing them. Though have darkblasts, and massacres in the sideboard for against welders, and other fish.

thats my thought though, I don't think mono black can really win anymore because there are too many oops I can win plays now that mono black can't do anything about.

I in no way thought you didn't know what you were doing. and trust me I know I definitely could have messed things up. which I know I did a lot that day. Thats why I never liked bomberman with its win just being drawing then playing out its deck. If i'm goign to manage to combo off, I want to win right there, not give someone some operortunity to take that away.

and yeah, I definitely would have died if the Angels swung anymore.

I was looking at some of the older build with cunning wish for brain freeze or stroke. I mean yeah they work,  and work well, but thats still 100% reliant on the salvager combo. I personaly like the tendrils win, because I can pull that off with out salvager, I pretty much have to play will, but still it gives me a route without relying on salvager, its just a bonus that salvager also does that fairly well. plus tinker, which I personally think is a cop out win, and is far to swingy, but I mean, both cards do fit in the deck anyway, tinker can find lotus or spellbomb if I need them, and I can hard cast colossus after getting mana with salvager if I have nothing else going for me. Plus if i have tinker in a deck, i might as well throw some big fatty in to go with it. It is also an amazing win condition if you can't have a graveyard or null rod is down.

and there were a lot more null rods there then I expected, if I knew there were going to be so many I might have picked a different weekend to try it out on. I don't think I lost to null rod that much though, mainly being out played, and making horrible gift choices, hah. And hand choices, I will one day have to learn when to mull.

now I probably have just taken two fairly good decks and made one crappy one from them, but so far it has been a blast to play, and I'd much rather play a crappy deck I like to play then a good deck I hate to play. I just need to learn how to play it. hah.

I might try the deck without the trinket mages, turn them into a Volcanic and a recoup, but I do like their random saving of games, and the fact they are a 3 mana tutor for lotus that beats.

well if you had a active welder on the table I probably wouldn't gifts for these, or make sure I can have no artifacts in my graveyard after tinker.

and you are assuming you will always have a bounce for after I tinker, and that I wont have any protection.

and this is also why I run 2 salvagers, so if I lose the one to a gifts I still have another one in the deck.

The idea for the deck came from while chatting with a friend I came up with a weird Gifts pile,
What if someone Gifts for Tinker, Yawg Will, Lotus, and Salvagers. What would you give them?

I really liked how ridiculous that sounded, but I don't own any Drains, so I assumed nothing would ever come of it.

Then one day I was really bored and decided to try and throw it together anyway.

I really liked it, it was weird, and flakey, but I liked it. 

And then one of my friends said I could borrow his one Drain, which was enough for me to take it to the 10 proxy tournament that weekend.

So I tried to tweak it. Some things I know are missing. Main one is Recoup, after the tournament just about every single game I wished I had Recoup in the deck. Another thing I noticed after playing it at the Tourny was I have no idea how to make Gifts piles. I would always pick 4 good cards, where most worked really well together, but there were always 2 cards in the pile that if they gave me those two, I didn't really get anywhere. And of course those were always the 2 cards I'd get.

I think I'm starting to get a little better at the piles, but still need a lot of practice with it.

after all of this I ended up dropping after going 2-3.  Which was mainly due to play mistakes, and not having recoup?

Here is the Decklist I took to the tournament on Saturday

Mana: 23
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
3 Island
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mox Ruby *
1 Mox Pearl *
1 Mox Jet *
1 Mox Sapphire *
1 Lotus Petal
1 Black Lotus *
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol ring

Bomberman part: 5
2 Trinket mage
2 Auriok Salvagers
1 Aether Spell bomb

Gifts part: 6
2 Gifts
1 Yawgmoths Will
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Tinker
1 Colossus
1 Time Walk *

Draw/Fix: 8
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall *
4 Brainstorm

Tutor: 3
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor

Disruption/Protection: 14
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain ***
3 Duress
1 Tormods Crypt
1 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyl's Recall

* Proxy.

SB: was janky
3 chalice of the void
3 swords to plowshares
3 massacre (I hate fish)
1 Eng Explosives
1 Pithing Needle
2 Chain of Vapor
1 hurkyl's recall
1 Rebuild


Turns out most of the people at the tournament were playing gifts, so maybe it wasn't the greatest time to try this out. Through probably better then all long since I can't see my game being that good against them, after board, having duress, force drain and chalice might help.

I didn’t write any notes or anything because I wasn’t planning on writing anything about this so I don’t remember anyone’s names. Sorry.

1st round: Gifts, I think Meandeck.

Game one, got really excited about my hand because it was the first time playing a Drain deck and I one the die roll and had first turn drain up. He tried to merchant school so I drained it. My turn I think I TFK’d then his turn he tried to merchant scroll again and I forced it. I got a salvager down, with lotus in the yard, but nothing to do with it. But next turn I drew tendrils. Infinite tendrils always sounds good to me.

Game two was really really weird. I don’t even know what turn it got to but it was definitely in the double digits.

Both of us kept Gifts’ing and countering each others stuff. There was one point he played recoup targeting merchant scroll, he had one card in his hand so I tried to recall myself in response to which he tapped 5 mana to hardcast misdirection, bastard, but then he didn’t have mana for merchant scroll but still he took the 3 cards, which to me was worth it. He got chalice for 0 down, then later chalice for 1. Before that I got my spellbomb down as my protection against colossus. But neither of us drew anything. He was down to 9, I think from Vault, fetching and must have been some beatings.  I was at 14 mainly from fetches and forces. I did an awful Gifts, I forgot chalice for 1 was down, and ended up getting a duress and VT. I had those in my hand plus 2 moxes, plus some land. I tried to duress, which was just counted by chalice because I’m an idiot. He draws and says go. I draw and see tendrils. I realize I could tendrils for 8 life right now. But he is at nine. And if I do that then I’ll really have nothing to finish him off with, so I decide to try and hold out and see if I can draw another card I could play. His turn he draws a merchant scroll and plays it, then while searching he was like, well I’ll fetch too while I’m searching. Putting him down to 7 from the 2 fetches, then I don’t remember what card he got, but then he said go. I drew I think another land, and then played the 2 moxes and VT into chalice then tendrils for 8 life, for the win. 

So now I’m 1 – 0

Round two against Ichorid,

I think he had a layline in play for all 3 games,

1st game just got overwhelmed with ichy’s and his putrid him. I ended up being able to get a tinker off but it was too late for colossus because he had too much to swing, so I went for crypt and got rid of all of his ichorids. But then I didn’t draw into anything so I still lost.

2nd game my opening hand looked really really good from the first 4 cards, lotus, tinker, land, pithing needle.  But of course the last card in my hand was colossus. I also had a TFK so I kept the hand. He started again with layline in play. So then I had to call a judge over to make sure if I TFK my colossus gets shuffled back in. which was the case so everything was good. So I lotus’d into to TFK, discarding colossus, then dropped pithing needle for bazaar.  Then he mulled to 4. and didn’t do too much. I third turn tinkered in colossus. Which he couldn’t answer in time.

Third game I kept an awful hand. I notice I keep bad hands if there is a brainstorm in it. Thinking its ok cause I can get rid of the bad stuff with brainstorm, but it never works. So I had an awful hand that went nowhere and lost to the 3/1s

1 – 1

Third round Oath.

Game one I countered and duressed away a bunch of oaths. Ended up winning with token and trinket mage beats.

Game 2 he won with the flying Angels.

Game 3 we both had a bunch of mana but nothing on the table. He duressed me taking something. I had a salvager in my hand and that was about it, lotus in my graveyard, but nothing to do with it and I didn’t want to play a creature with out being able to win. He got an oath so now I need to find something fast.  I draw into trinket mage, which was probably the best thing to draw into. I play salvagers, he oaths up Razia and swings. Then I play trinket for spell bomb then start to go infinite, I can tell he doesn’t think I can win from this, so I keep drawing off spell bomb till I hit demonic tutor. And then I play demonic tutor. Then he’s like for what? I’m like Tendrils. He’s like, oh….

It was true in regular bomberman, I guess bounce Razia, maybe bounce oath if they had any left, but I could definitely see not winning after that. But having tendrils main deck works So well with salvager.

2 – 1
 

 Round 4.  Stax.

Both games I got colossus out, both games I lost to tangle wire.

Game two I even willed into a tinker and timewalk leaving no artifacts in my graveyard because he had welder in play. But still he get titan in play, which leaves play and comes back, so I have basically no land left, and welds in tangle wire. So I’m tapped down and can’t attack anymore with DSC.

I had rebuild in my hand the whole time, but I couldn’t play it because of colossus. First time I’ve ever wished rebuild was hurkyl’s

2 – 2


I could have dropped now, but meh. Magic is fun.

Round 5: mono black control.

First game, he ripped apart my hand with duresses and fiends and hippy

Game 2, I got a salvager out with a lotus and an eng explosives, but no win yet, I kept blowing up his board hoping for something. Then I drew colossus. So I comboed salvager to get the 11 mana for colossus, he finally got an edict but I just lost the salvager and still won.

Game 3, I managed to get a colossus in but he edict me, and I had nothing.

2 – 3


So now I dropped.


Things I really liked about the deck were there was a number of ways of wining. The regular tinker colossus, the will into tendrils, the salvager into tendrils, or just trinket and salvager beat down.

This I don’t like. It still bends over to null rob. But I’d say pretty much most type 1 decks do, so that’s just how it goes.

Things it needs is recoup. But I can’t think of what to take out for a recoup and at least one volcanic island. I keep looking at duress, but they are part of the reason I’ll play the deck. They are good against just about every type 1 deck. And against fish and stuff they are an easy side out for massacres. So I have no idea what to take out. I tried going to one Salvager, but I found that 1 was too little. Since it can still double as beats, and gives me the tendrils win, if I loose it early its very annoying. 2 I found was perfect. I probably don’t need trinket mages, but they one me at least 2 of the games, can find me lotus in a pinch or anything that might help. And they can beat.

I really like the feel of the deck and I want to try and take it farther but I just need some help on tweaking it. 

Anyone have any ideas of what I could take out for recoup? Any other cards you’d add?

I almost like the idea of siding this in against a fist deck that runs null rods and such. Play this guy, which will hold off their mage or whatever creature they have because unless it's a Grunt, or a thresh Bear this will kill them all, then next turn win.

but maybe siding in colossus would just be better. 

But if you want to stick with strickly combo, then he is kinda cool.


or maybe some slower combo deck with him and bobs, more control combo, with drains, then when you set up with mana pop him and win. Drains will help out since Drain could definitely get you the 3 colourless, and you already have to have UU for Drain.

You'll probably need to add more content or the thread might get closed.


I'm assuming its main purpose is its a bounce spell, which you should be running anyway to get rid of something nasty, but its also 3 mana so you can get rid of chalice for 2, which anyone with chalices will desperately try and put down as fast as possible, and next would be 1, so you need the 3 CC for the bounce.

People don't run DSC in oath because he is slower then the angels

say you lay oath,

next turn oath up Akroma, 6 damage,
next turn oath up Razia, 12 damage - 18 damage total.

with only DSC

lay oath
oath up DSC - 0 damage
oath up DSC - 11 damage - 11 damage total

with angels and DSC

oath up angel 6 damage
oath up DSC 6 damage - 12 total

oath up DSC 0 damage
oath up angel 17 damage - 17 damage total


With fetchlands and everything 18 is usually enough to finish someone. and only if you get the DSC then angel do you get close to that. 2 DSC's is actually the slowest.

I don't understand you creature choices at all, but if you want morphling for its ability to but untargetable, why not just use simic sky swollower? 5UG 6/6 flying, trample, can't be the target of spells or abilities, seems to me an a lot better choice.

What about Gush?????

instant +6/+6 to tog.

you are running lots of islands and does still draws you 2 cards instantly.

and dpesen't necro not work, since doesn't it replace the discard effect so you are not actually discarding anymore so tog doesn't get any bigger?

An ichorid deck could work with 5 proxy and under 200 bucks.

prices in Canadian.

4 bazaars (Proxy)
4 city of brass (about $10 a piece)      $40
4 gemstone mines (about $5 a piece) $20
1 chrome mox (about $15 -20)          $20
1 black lotus (proxy)
1 strip mine (about $5)                     $5
1 lotus petal                                    $2

4 Ichorids (about $5)                        $20
4 Ashen Ghouls ( < $5)                   $15

4 stinkweek imps ($1)                       $4
4 grave trolls ($5)                             $20
4 putrid imp ($1)                              $4


4 cabal therapy($5)                         $20
4 unmasks ($5)                                $20
4 Chalice of the voids ($3)                 $12
1 vampiric tutor                                $20
1 crop rotation                                 $1
1 gamble                                         $3
4 layline of the void                           $20
3 brainstorm/careful study                  $4
2 darkblast/golgari thug                      $2

So that comes to like $252, but all of the prices are just ones I've seen for in stores, you can get all of these cards cheaper. so for sure you could build it for $200,  and personally i find ichroid is a blast to play

EDIT: hit submit by mistake...

I'm trying to make a 10 proxy grim long for a tournament this weekend. which not owning any power or the expensive portal cards is making it difficult.

right now the deck is.

land: 11
4 city of brass
3 gemstone mine
1 forbidden orchard
2 watery grave (all of our underground seas are in a different deck)
1 tolarian academy

artifacts: 12
5 moxes (proxy)
1 black lotus (proxy)
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 lotus petal
1 mana vault
1 mana crypt
1 memory jar
1 chromatic sphere (i don't know about this one, but can fix mana and give me a card)

instants: 16
4 brainstorm
1 chains of vapor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
4 dark ritual
3 cabal ritual
1 vampiric tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 demonic consultation
1 ancestral recall (proxy)

sorcery: 16
1 demonic tutor
3 grim tutor (proxy)
1 burning wish
1 tendrils of agony
1 wheel of fortune
1 tinker
1 windfall
1 minds desire
1 yawgmoths will
1 regrowth
4 duress

enchantments: 2
1 necropotence
1 yawgmoths bargain

creatures: 2
1 elvish spirit guide
1 xantid swarm

Sideboard right now is
4 force of wills
3 xantid swarms
3 chains of vapor
X elvish spirit guides
1 tendrils of agony
x ???

haven't finished the rest.

for the card changes.

i don't have imperial seal, don't know if i should go to 2 grim tutors and 1 seal or stay at 3 grim tutors,  the fact it goes to your hand is so important. right now instead of seal i have demonic consultation in the deck. that made me run burning wish so i have more of a chance of not instantly loosing when I consult. also because timetwister is not in the deck make consultation alright. twister really wants to recycle your library which if i consult for anything most of the library is probably gone.

the chromatic sphere is maybe for if i have a whole lot of colourless mana or blue mana i can make a black to win, and the fact if gives you a car helps with VT and MT. it might come out for sol ring though since i forgot about sol ring when i was making the deck.

for my meta I've noticed i NEED hurkyl's recall, so i put one in along with the chains. they both also work as amazing storm builders as everyone knows.


I like the sphere because one thing, I'm really used to this mono black storm deck my house build, so I'm not used to having to save more than just black mana. it also helps if i play a bunch of rituals then drop it get blue and tinker or something. or red and wheel. second it helps me make sure i can get the right colour at the right time. but it is slow so that is why there is only 1 in. i do need to find a spot for sol ring. 

my problem is i seem to fizzle a lot, but i think thats mainly my playing ability, it is a lot different then the other storm deck i used to play. just wondering if anyone has any ideas on a 10 proxy grim.

I'm also thinking of one Echoing Ruin in my sideboard as a wish target, I've seen a lot of chalices and against grim they will be set at 0 and 1 usually so i could wish for ruin then blow them up, and with shattering spree if there was one for 1 I'd end up spending RR to blow it up instead of R1 that it would be for ruin, and R1 is a lot easier to get then RR. it also has the ability for R1 to blow up one at 1 and at 0.

I'll report later on how the tournament goes. I've yet to have a good tournament showing but I'm also still a hardcore noob. but meh.

You don't have to listen to me if you don't want, since I'm a noob, but what about 1 sundering titan? You are already using no lands with basic land types, so it will only hit their lands, and its a 7/10 to boot. No trample, but weld him in and out a couple of time and they have no land left. then keep swinging for the win.

EDIT:

oh and since you are already running welder, and find you cant find the things you need. why not thirst for knowledge? I'd probably take out the glimpses for thirsts, and isn't mind twist restricted? if so then take out one of those for the titan.

so

-1 mind twist
-3 glimpse

+ 1 sundering titan
+ 3 thirst for kn owlage

???

I find most of the time I'm using gamble or a tutor other than crop rotation I'm mainly looking for chalice, maybe chains. i either have bazaar, or i have a way of playing around it, say putrid imp and careful study. and its first turn and i really want a chalice, if I was using vamp or imperial it would be too late since by the time I got it they have probably played a bunch of their moxen and such. its not a replacement for crop rotation or vampiric tutor in my deck, its in addition to, so it gives me the chance of having a 1 mana DT.

In type 1 I think its too slow to actually do anything.

at least in the time vault combo when you resolved flame you won right then and there. unless you have time walk and a bunch of counters to protect it and they don't have anything flying that can just chump it it might take you another couple turns or so to win. its also not always easy to come up with BB3, R3 is a lot easier to get. I mean it's possible, and hey maybe I'll try it since it wont be too hard to get an Aether Snap and one of these lands. maybe it will work, just doesn't sound like it.

and even in type 2 I think its pretty bad. its a land drop, that does absolutely nothing until you dump 30 mana into it. maybe if it also tapped for colourless mana, or they are also coming out with some card in coldsnap that can deal with counters, it just seems way to slow, and doesn't do anything. really in the first couple turns would you want to drop this instead of a land that actually taps for mana that you can use? or drop this then spend the next 10 or so turns taking off counters and not doing anything else.


but maybe I just suck at magic.

also, if the plan is to play null rods main, or at least play null rods, it definitely kills top, at least moxes and lotus can power you out to do fun things first turn, but null rod basically takes away the point of running top. and I'd rather run null rod over top.

and if you run null rods main, and you end up playing the kid with the elf deck, you could just side in jitte or something in there place.

at least thats my opinion.

I used to run balance main but took it out mainly because when I see it it makes me want to do stupid things, like keep a hand only because i can play out my hand then balance with no cards in my hand. When really there wasn't anything else in my hand to go on so everytime i tried that at a tournament it got forced then i was stuck in topdeck mode in a deck that is probably the worst at top decking ever. there isn't anything wrong with balance, really its my fault, but why risk me doing stupid play errors when I don't have to.

now in the sideboard, thats actually a really good idea, it'll give the card a different meaning in the deck so I wont think of it as how I did when it was main. and it usually will be a wrath for W1 which will also probably take out most of there lands. I'll try it in the sideboard at the next tourny I bring the deck too.


edit:  yeah, my meta usually turns out to be a bunch of Aggro decks with maybe 1 or 2 combo. they are small tournaments.

i didn't have 4 slots held for filler, I had 4 slots that I needed to fill at 5am before the turnament, i couldn't think of anything that would help so I through some cards in that could make it faster.

I like the thug because not only does it dredge, its black and can be thrown to ichorid, or pitched to unmask. i'd run some main but there isn't any room.

I didn't try brainstorm SB because I had careful study main. i'm not advocating anyone else using that sideboard. i just usually play in small type 1 turny's where there are a lot of random slow decks.  at the turnament i went to with that probably wasn't the greatest since most of the decks were slaver and dragon and such, the only one i brought that stuff in for was some guy was playing SS, so i took out the laylines for that.

its really if layline does nothing to the deck, but there isn't really anyreason to bring in null rod or pithing needle I bring in some of that. maybe the 3 chains 1 sapphire.

if I was going to some large type 1 turny then I would have planned my sideboard out better, but really I just couldn't think of 4 more cards and I couldn't find the root mazes so I went with that.

I actually have 4 slots open in my sideboard, I was running 3 chains, 4 null rods, and 4 pithing needles. so i had 4 slots to fill. so I went with 1 sapphire, 1 darkblast and 2 thugs, for when I run into decks that don't have a lot of hate I can speed the deck up throwing that stuff in. can swap out the 4 laylines out for that nicely.

Yeah, I agree, I took out sapphire main because I found it useless most of the time. though I put it in my sideboard so when I bring in the chains I have more of a chance to actually have the U to use one.

It depends on the hand, if I had a hand with a bunch of lands a VT and that’s it basically I wouldn't keep it.

But if I had a hand with a land, putrid imp, careful study, and any kind of dredgers plus hopefully some sort of disruption I definitely would keep that hand.

Bazaar is nice but I’ve definitely won games with out ever seeing one. At one of the tournaments I went to I didn't see a bazaar till the 3rd round and I was 2-0 at that point.

Both VT and gamble help me think if I should keep a hand. But it has to have another way to go in the hand. like if I’m going to search for a bazaar I’d want there to be a putrid imp in there so if I don't get the bazaar I can still operate.

Another reason why I like gamble is if I’m going up against some heavily powered deck, have everything I want in my hand but a chalice, I can gamble for chalice, and most likely get to put it in play that turn. But if I imp sealed for it. By the time I got it would be too late.

Until I went with gamble I was only keeping the 5c for crop rotation. But that card has won me so many games that I’d never dream of taking it out.

I like it.  I’ve been waiting to see what the meandeck ichy was going to be.

I ended up bringing a slightly similar list to a tournament last weekend. Only went 2-2 but that’s just because I’m still a n00b and do a lot of play mistakes. Like chaining a planer void on my turn with my only mana source so he could just plat it again on his turn. Blah.

But yeah, the list I ended up running was

4 bazaars
4 gemstone mines
4 city of brass
1 strip mine
1 mox jet
1 chrome mox
1 lotus petal
1 black lotus

1 vamp tutor
1 gamble
1 crop rotation
1 chains of vapour
3 careful studies

4 putrid imps
4 stink imps
4 grave trolls
4 ichorids
4 ghouls

4 layline of the void
3 unmask (only have three, but I like having 3 in there)
4 cabal therapy
4 chalice of the void


SB was
3 chains of vapour
4 null rods
4 pithing needles
1 mox sapphire
2 golgari thugs
1 darkblast

The last 4 of my side board was for if I ran into decks with really no hate I could through that in instead of laylines and just speed the deck up more.

And I went with the gamble because I don't have $100+ for seal, and I actually really like gamble better anyway, haven't really tried seal though. I actually most of the time find VT to be one of the cards in the deck I don't really want to see. I’d never keep a hand that relies on VT and it slows me down too much because I have to wait then another turn before I start dredging. and seal is just a worse version of VT so I went with gamble, which really the time you tutor is first tern when you have 7 cards in your hand, which most of the time at least half of them you want in your graveyard anyway, so yes there is a risk you loose the card you want, but there is more of a chance you'll not only get the card you want but get a card in to your grave yard that you want. But again another card I wouldn't keep a hand just because it is in it. And once I drew a gamble but only had mox jet in play so I couldn't play it. But I still stick by it.

A dragon player first round was all bitter to see mainboard laylines, he was saying before the match because they knew I was playing ichy that I probably have laylines sideboard, I smirked, then when we started the first game I’m like, you gonna keep, he was like, yup, then ok, layline comes in. the look on his face was priceless.

But anyway, this really has nothing to do with your topic.

You did come really close with picking out the field, other than fish. But who could have guessed that fish decided not to show up.

Sadly enough I wouldn't mind seeing colossus get banned. The tinker into colossus combo is just too easy to throw into any deck that runs blue, which is pretty much most of them. And tinker by its self isn't bad, and even not as strong with out an 11/11 indestructible trampler which can be brought out first turn.

I realize how absurd it sounds banning a creature in type 1 now a days, but still.

Hah, yeah, true enough. but at least with leak they'd have to regrowth, or recoup to get it back, with remand if i can't make them discard it they can just play it again next turn. that turn if they have the mana, but i guess if they have the mana they could just pay for the leak.

I'll give remand a shot, we also have some dazes lying around so i'll try those too. I work late so by the time I get home I don't really have anyone to test with, but before the toruny I'll try with remands and see how it works.


Yeah, thats how it looks to me as how it should work. Just wanted too see if that was correct or if I was on crack.

Yeah. The Mishra's aren't in because I already have the 5 wastes that tap for colourless and I don’t think I can support more lands that just tap for colourless. Library is an interesting idea; I don't know where I’d through with it though. I’ll think about that though


the mana leaks are in partly because of the 2 moxes getting it up turn one, also because of the wastes/strip only taping for colourless getting U1 would be easier then getting UU.


 Remands an idea, but if I can’t duress or fiend the card out of there hand then I still have to worry about it next turn. And if it is Will, or Tinker or something, I’m probably just delaying the inevitable. I’d have to put the therapies in it as well. And I just don't know where to put those.


I never thought of psychatogs, that's a great idea, as long as I can get ninja and bob online I should be fine for cards in my hand to discard to it. And against the kinds I could take the fiends out for it since they won't really be that effective against them.



I have a question about what happens with Fiend if Nights of the soul’s betrayal is in play. One of the guys at the tournament runs that in his sideboard mainly against oath, but I could see him putting them in against me since it kills off bobs and such. But with fiend it comes into play, that triggers, then as a state based effect of the -1/-1 it dies and goes to the grave yard, then that effect triggers, now does the coming into play resolve before the leaving play? Or will the leaving play resolve first. Since it’s a state based effect with the -1/-1.

So if I dropped one would I just be able to look at there hand and remove one from the game that they don’t get back. Or will they get it back right away?

Oh man. That would be awesome. We are trying to see if we can pick some up by then. But by the time I decided to play this it was too late to order them online. But if you could that would be sweet.


sorry I probably should have mentioned it. the weird array of fetch lands is because we only have 1 polluted delta, and the 2 flooded strands,

I was running 4 mires, with out the watery grave, but I took out one for it. and I picked watery grave so the stands could fetch for it.

I would love to run 4 deltas instead but unfortunately I don't have them.

Going to a local Type 1 5 proxy + 5 $1 a proxy tounry this weekend and just wanted some help with my deck.

so far at all of the other tournaments here I’ve gone to I brought my mono black tendrils deck, I wanted to bring something different, one because it'll throw people off I’m not playing mono black tendrils, and 2, just wanted to try something new.

So far the deck list is:

Mana: 21
4x Underground Sea
1x watery grave
1x swamp
1x island
3x Bloodstained Mires
1x polluted delta
2x flooded strand
4x wastelands
1x strip mine
1x Mox Jet (proxy)
1x Mox Sapphire (proxy)
1x Black Lotus (proxy)

Creatures: 16
4x Dark Confident
3x Ninja of the Deep Hours
3x Serindib Efreet
3x Withered Wretch (I hope I can find some by the weekend)
3x Mesmeric Fiend

Spells: 23
1x Ancestral Recall (proxy)
1x Time walk (proxy)
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
4x Aether Vial
3x duress
3x mana leak
3x Jitte
3x Chalice of the Void
3x Standstill

Sideboard at the moment
3x waterfront bouncer
3x darkblast
2x extract
3x echoing truth
2x chains of vapour
2x diabolic edict

The sideboard is pretty balls, not 100% sure what to do with it.

My Meta is a bunch of kids and their creature decks. Then some oath, some welder decks, I’ve seen 1 slaver deck. 1 workshop aggro, 1 goblin, a dragon deck, a Sui black deck, tinker/colossus gifts deck, and a couple storm decks. There are a few real pieces of power, then the proxied power.

The bouncers are for oath and colossus, but so is the rest of the sideboard basically. Accept the darkblasts which are for the goblin deck and welders.

I have a feeling I might be able to play this and be competitive against the type 1 players there, but I’m afraid I’ll end up loosing to some kid and there type 2 decks.

I’m running the chalices over null rods, 1 reason, I have chalices and I don't have null rods and 2 so I can run jitte and vial. Also, I can set chalice down for 1 with out too much harm to myself I loose the duress’s and vials and recall. But I could try and get a vial down before that, and it would be a lot more devastating to some of the other decks. Like a first turn vial, second turn chalice for 1, better would be first turn vial and chalice for 0, then second turn chalice for 1.

I like the idea of standstill with jitte, but I’m not 100% if with just vial and no mishra's factories if I can pull it off effectively.

Also I don’t know if instead of vamp tutor it should be demonic consultation so it’s in my hand, but then again should it be either of those 2. Could help me get a chalice out right away. But I don't know what to put in its place.

Dibs are for a faster clock and to survive some burn and darkblasts. So far I’ve liked the addition of them

Fiends are for more disruption, and after sideboard I do tricks with either darkblasting them which there coming into play ability is on the stack or bouncing them.

Bob is for bob, more card advantage, plus can hold a jitte and swing

Ninja to draw more cards, plus they live through darkblast, and I can ninjitsu them in under standstill. Also VT in response to its draw.

Wretch to help kill welder and dragon decks, also against Will and Gifts, plus it’s a 2/2 so it survives to darkblast and other things that are in to kill welder, and bob.

 
For the spells, the average disruption with duress and mana leak, leaks because of with wastes and strips it would be hard to get UU online 2nd turn for counterspell.

Regular brokenness with recall and time walk.

Tutoring for some kind of answer, or a jitte or something I need with demonic tutor, and one of the other ones...

And with Vial it helps with letting me use my mana for durresing or mana leak while I’m vialing in creatures.


Anyway, any ideas on what I could do with this deck? Or if you thinking running it at all would be even viable?