Jim Erlinger beat, I believe, 3 Tog decks, including one piloted by Rich Shay, and was ranked first after six rounds.

Ichorid is no joke.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost.php?p=370985&postcount=84

Name Unknown
Rare
UB
Sorcery
Target player puts the top ten cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.

Discuss.

Can someone link me to a current list of UW Fish?  I tried via the search engine, but haven't been able to find any "current" listings with Thief, Bouncer, Vial, etc.  I'm trying to learn as much about the deck as possible but have only been able to find fragments of info here and there; nothing really comprehensive.

I really find the Bringer version that recurs Mindslaver interesting.  My only major concern with it is speed, especially in an unpowered build.

How well does Will function in a budget version of the deck?  I'm not sure that I would be able to manipulate the graveyard enough to make it more than a "win more" card.

Has anyone considered a 4-5 color variant?  With white, you gain Balance and StP, and red provides REB, Rack and Ruin, and Fire/Ice.

1 Gaea's Blessing
4 Oath of Druids

3 Bringer of the White Dawn

4 Brainstorm
4 Intuition
4 Thirst for Knowledge

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Mana Leak

4 Mindslaver

2 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Island
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
2 Polluted Delta
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD:
1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Ancient Hydra
3 Arcane Laboratory
1 Darksteel Colossus
3 Ground Seal
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel
3 Rack and Ruin
1 Tinker

The idea, in case you didn't catch it, is to Oath a Bringer into play and recur Mindslaver for a lock, ala Control Slaver.  Though Powerless, this build does still run Mana Drains as an alternative acceleration for Slaver.  TfK takes the place of AKs, now that there are Slavers MD that can be pitched to them.

Is this deck fast enough?  How does one get around an StP'd Bringer?

I have not been too pleased with AK, Impulse, MisD, or Twincast.  Not that they haven't been useful, but I feel like the deck could be stronger with Chalices and TfKs instead.  Thoughts?

1 Gaea's Blessing
4 Oath of Druids

1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Ancient Hydra
1 Spirit of the Night

4 Brainstorm
4 Intuition
4 Thirst for Knowledge

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Mana Leak

4 Chalice of the Void

2 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Island
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
2 Polluted Delta
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD:
3 Arcane Laboratory
3 Ground Seal
1 Iridescent Angel
3 Pithing Needle
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel
3 Rack and Ruin

I have done some further testing and found that, though I like the Needles, they're better suited to the SB.  I need more MD draw/search, and Impulse is too expensive.  How about SV in addition to the Int/AK engine?  Dropping the MisD's and Cast from the side to make room for Needles?


1 Gaea's Blessing
4 Oath of Druids

1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Ancient Hydra
1 Spirit of the Night

4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
4 Intuition
4 Serum Visions

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Mana Leak

2 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Island
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
2 Polluted Delta
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD:
3 Arcane Laboratory
3 Ground Seal
1 Iridescent Angel
3 Pithing Needle
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel
3 Rack and Ruin

This thread is discussion about whether it is optimal to go with the UGB version of Powerless Oath as opposed to the straight UG Powerless Oath.  Though it is arguable that adding a third color to Oath further complcates the manabase with relatively minimal enhancement, this is pretty much negligible in Powerless Oath, which lacks Moxen and runs 4+ basic Islands regardless.

The main reason to add black to the Oath base is to run Demonic Tutor and Duress.  These are pretty much no-brainers.  However, there are some other interesting choices that this version of Oath brings to the table:

- Gaea's Blessing vs. Yawgmoth's Will - Though Will is not as potent w/o Power, it is still a very powerful card.  The problem with running it in place of Blessing is that it makes this almost a suicide Oath -- big risk, big reward.

- Intuition/AK vs. Skeletal Scrying - Without Power AND Drains, running SS is pretty much a no-brainer.  It is more reliable and faster, and takes up 4-5 fewer MD slots.  However, the life loss can hurt, and since this deck still runs Drains, which way is the best to go?  Not to mention that SS has very poor synergy with Will.

The main reason I'm considering adding black to my UG Oath is because I have 4 open MD slots that I feel can be better filled with DTutor/Duress, and I already run 2 Volcanics for SB Rack and Ruins, which would easily be replacable with Seas.  But, is the change worth it, or am I better off running the R&Rs with the red splash?

Here is the preliminary decklist for UGB:

1 Gaea's Blessing
4 Oath of Druids

1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Ancient Hydra
1 Spirit of the Night

4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
1 Demonic Tutor
3 Intuition

4 Duress
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Mana Leak

2 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Island
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
2 Polluted Delta
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD:
3 Arcane Laboratory
3 Ground Seal
1 Iridescent Angel
3 Pithing Needle
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel
3 Twincast

What does everyone think about Misdirection vs. Twincast?  The Cast seems to be considerably less situational than MisD, though MisD really shines when used for free.

Annul is interesting.  If I expected an abundance of artifact-based decks, I'd probably run them in place of my Impulses and Needles, not my Leaks.

Has anyone considered Sylvan Library for Oath?  It has awesome synergy w/Brainstorm.

Also, is it worth splashing red for Rack and Ruin in the side, or would I be better off splashing black for MD Duress and Demonic Tutor?

I typically play U/G, but have been thinking of selling my playset of Drains and going straight budget.  With that in mind, I'm thinking of adding black to compensate for the lack of a draw engine (Intuition/AK is just not that great w/o Drain acceleration).

1 Gaea's Blessing
4 Oath of Druids

1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Ancient Hydra
1 Spirit of the Night

4 Brainstorm
1 Demonic Tutor
2 Intuition
3 Skeletal Scrying

3 Cabal Therapy
4 Duress
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Leak

3 Pithing Needle

4 Forbidden Orchard
3 Island
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
4 Polluted Delta
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
1 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD:
3 Arcane Laboratory
3 Energy Flux
3 Ground Seal
1 Iridescent Angel
3 Misdirection
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel

The deck, obviously, is a hate machine, with 3 Therapys, 3 Needles, and 4 Duresses.  No card requires double-colored mana, making the alteration of the mana base more tolerable.

Smmenen posted a decklist for a budget black/green Oath concoction that took 21st place in a recent French Vintage tourney, which can be found here:

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/index.php?topic=23287.0

The deck looks like it has a lot of potential, and it would be nice to run an Oath deck w/o having to throw down the $$$ on Drains, FoWs, Intuitions, and blue duals.  The following is the original decklist:

4 Oath of Druids

1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Spirit of the Night
1 Woodripper

1 Crop Rotation
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Living Wish
1 Necropotence
1 Vampiric Tutor

4 Chalice of the Void
3 Choke
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Duress
1 Null Rod

4 Bayou
4 Dark Ritual
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Forest
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Diamond
4 Polluted Delta
1 Sol Ring
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD:
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Choke
1 Gilded Drake
2 Ground Seal
3 Null Rod
2 Oxidize
1 Strip Mine
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Uktabi Orangutan
1 Withered Wretch

Now, the idea is to tweak the deck to make it a bit more universal and a bit less metagame dependant.  The current build is obviously built to hate out blue and artifact-based decks.  I'm sure we can tighten this deck up considerably to perform better against a less narrow field.

The following is my revised version of the deck, along with my rationale for the changes:

4 Oath of Druids

1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Ancient Hydra
1 Spirit of the Night

1 Demonic Tutor
1 Necropotence
4 Night's Whisper
1 Regrowth
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will

4 Cabal Therapy
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Duress
3 Null Rod
3 Pithing Needle

4 Bayou
4 Dark Ritual
4 Forbidden Orchard
1 Forest
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
1 Swamp
1 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills

SIDEBOARD:
3 Choke
3 Ground Seal
2 Naturalize
2 Oxidize
3 Root Maze
1 Withered Wretch
1 Woodripper

-1 Woodripper - too situational; replaced w/Hydra
-1 Crop Rotation - too often a dead card
-1 Demonic Consultation - too suicidal
-4 Living Wish - LWish tricks are nice, but it's too slow at sorcery speed, and w/o Brainstorms, too hard to put the creaturess back into the library to Oath up
-3 Choke - moved to the SB
-4 Crucible of Worlds - though a neat trick, there is better disruption that can be run
-1 Chalice of the Void - cut to make room for more Rods
-2 Mana Crypt/Vault - less useful with Crucible gone; want to use life to draw cards

+1 Ancient Hydra - 3rd creature; MD Platz/Welder hate
+4 Night's Whisper - the deck felt way too light on draw, and this is the deck available after Necro/Demonic/Vampiric
+1 Regrowth - why not?  Lots of cards are going to the graveyard, anyway
+1 Yawgmoth's Will - this deck was practically built for Will; can be replaced by Blessing in a more control-oriented build
+4 Cabal Therapy - Duresses 5-8; replaces Crucible
+2 Null Rod - too good to be only a 1-of in the MD
+3 Pithing Needle - nice, diverse hosery
+1 Strip Mine - with Wishes out, Strip moves to the MD

The Chains' were removed to make the deck a truly "budget" deck.  To optimize, add Lotus, Jet, Emerald, and a pair of Chains' in the Needle spots.

The life loss can really hurt.  People say it's negligible, but it has cost me some games when testing SS.  Remember, I'm powerless here, so the deck is a little slower, and really good aggro decks can still give it a hard time.

Btw, here is the version I'm currently running.  Aside from adding black or Power, what can I do to improve the deck, if anything?

1 Gaea's Blessing
4 Oath of Druids

1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Ancient Hydra
1 Spirit of the Night

4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
2 Impulse
4 Intuition

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Mana Leak

2 Pithing Needle

2 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Island
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
2 Polluted Delta
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD:
3 Arcane Laboratory
3 Ground Seal
1 Iridescent Angel
2 Misdirection
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel
3 Rack and Ruin
1 Twincast

I'm running the red splash almost exclusively for Rack and Ruin.  I think I should be okay running 4 basics.

The MD is pretty set, with the exception of 2 slots, where the Needles curently reside.  I had MisD's there for a while, but against aggro, they're pretty much worthless.  At least the Needle is rarely a dead card.  I have the MisDs in the SB, as well as a Twincast to act as a 3rd MisD in the situations where it would be better.  I've actually considered cutting one R&R (though I like being able to Intuition for it in a pinch) to add a 2nd Twincast, giving me up to 16 counters in the deck.

I'm not completely sold on the Impulses, but am reluctant to cut them.  I want to have enough search in the deck.

Mystical can't fetch Oath or Orchard.

Scrying is the same speed as Intuition/AK, but you don't lose life and cards for Intuition/AK, and Scryings can't be pitched to FoW/MisD.

How about Opt?  It's instant speed.

Tried 'em, and they sucked.

I guess I'll just have to stick with AK for now.  Nothing else I've tried has been any better.

The only thing I'm concerned about is, is there enough card drawing power w/o the AKs?  Otherwise, I've been looking at possibly dropping the AKs from my own build, along with the Impulses.  I just tested the Tops but didn't like them.  They don't do enough for my liking, and multiples are pretty much worthless.

Here's my current build, btw:

1 Gaea's Blessing
4 Oath of Druids

1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Ancient Hydra
1 Spirit of the Night

4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
2 Impulse
4 Intuition

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Mana Leak

2 Pithing Needle

2 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Island
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
2 Polluted Delta
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD:
3 Arcane Laboratory
3 Ground Seal
1 Iridescent Angel
2 Misdirection
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel
3 Rack and Ruin
1 Twincast

I'm starting to lean towards a Chalice Oath build with Thirsts instead of AKs, something along the lines of this:

1 Gaea's Blessing
4 Oath of Druids

1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Ancient Hydra
1 Spirit of the Night

4 Brainstorm
3 Intuition
3 Thirst for Knowledge

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Mana Leak

3 Chalice of the Void
3 Pithing Needle

2 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Island
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
2 Polluted Delta
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD:
3 Arcane Laboratory
3 Ground Seal
1 Iridescent Angel
2 Misdirection
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel
3 Rack and Ruin
1 Twincast

I would love to replace AK as my draw engine, but am not sure what's better to run in it's place.  Regardless, I love 3-4 Intuitions in the deck.

Intuition, on its own, is still a very good card.  It's basically a blue Demonic Tutor.  In the example given, if you're looking for Oath, why Intuition for AK and hope the Oath turns up?  Just Intuition for Oath and go to town.

If you consider Top/Needle (and, I admit, I haven't playtested Top; it just looks weird to me), you could go with Thirst for Knowledges as your draw engine.  A single Fact or Fiction may not be too bad either.  Beyond that, I'd look at Impulse.

1 Gaea's Blessing
4 Oath of Druids

1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Ancient Hydra
1 Spirit of the Night

4 Brainstorm
4 Thirst for Knowledge

4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Mana Leak

3 Pithing Needle
3 Sensei's Divining Top

2 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Island
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
2 Polluted Delta
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD:
3 Arcane Laboratory
3 Ground Seal
1 Iridescent Angel
2 Misdirection
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel
3 Rack and Ruin
1 Twincast

If you don't want to run Volcanics for a red splash, go with 2 more Islands/Tropicals and run Energy Flux.

CWish is too slow for unpowered Oath, espcially one not running Drains.  Even with Drains, I found them to be too slow and clunky.

Gush is also counterproductive to the deck.  You don't want to put lands back in your hand, especially when unpowered.

The rest of the deck is pretty solid, but I can't stress enough...add Ancient Hydra to Akroma and Spirit MD.  You retain your speed but have a way of dealing with speed bumps such as Welder and Platz as well.  Worst case, you sac all the counters and do a whopping 1 less point of damage than you normally would, then you Oath up Akroma/Spirit the next turn and win anyway.  I seem to be the only advocate of this so far, but I'm confident it will eventually catch on.

Yeah, currently, it would be T2 with the affinity cards unbanned and the following cards added to the format:

Accumulated Knowledge
Armageddon
Avalanche Riders
Balance
Blastoderm
Brainstorm
Cabal Therapy
Carrion Feeder
Flametongue Kavu
Hermit Druid
Krosan Tusker
Krosan Warchief
Lightning Rift
Mother of Runes
Powder Keg
Phyrexian Negator
Psychatog
Rancor
Reanimate
Seal of Cleansing
Silver Knight
Slice and Dice
Smother
Sparksmith
Time Warp
Treetop Village
Whipcorder
Willbender
Withered Wretch

And, soon, also add:

Duress
Fact or Fiction
Kird Ape

I definitely feel a deck at least splashing white for 4 Balances would be optimal.

This is, quite simply, a format that utilizes only cards with the new card face (10th Anniversary cards, aka Type "10").  All cards with the old card face are banned, as are any normally non-tourney legal cards (World Championship decks & Unhinged, with the exception of Unhinged basic lands, which are legal).  Promo cards with the new card face, however, are legal (such as Balance, Powder Keg, Accumulated Knowledge, etc.).  No cards are restricted (yet ).

So, what deck would you play in this format?  Affinity seems an obvious choice, but there is also the capability of running a deck with 4 Balances to keep that in check.

Thoughts?

Drains are useful if running the Intuition/AK engine, which I do.  Otherwise, I agree -- there's not much to Drain into if you're not running that engine.

STP can be a pain in the first match, but after that, you should be siding in some combination of Iridescent/Pristine Angel.  Living Wish is too clunky to run, being a sorcery, putting the creature in your hand, and being green.

Petal is in the deck for an early Drain/Counter.

I don't run black, but I run a couple Volcanics to splash Rack and Ruin in the SB.  I still run 4 basic Islands, so I think I'll be okay in that respect.

No, that's true, but you also don't want to be sucking your own life/cards away with Scrying.  If you're running enough artifacts, I'd go with TFK instead of either, though.

On another note, the fact that the Annuls are generally being run over Duresses due to the inflexible mana base should tell you something right there.  With Will being a "win more" card, Scrying being potentially suicidal, and w/o even running a full set of Duresses, why again go down this road?

If insistant on adding black, however, I'd make the following changes:

- 4 Annul
- 3 Skeletal Scrying
- 1 Yawgmoth's Will

+ 2 Duress
+ 4 Thirst for Knowledge
+ 1 Gaea's Blessing
+ 1 Ancient Hydra (yes, I know, 3 creatures MD, blahblahblah...but it works, damn it!)

The mana base looks PERFECT to me, btw.

Yup.

It's also not worth altering the mana base for, basically, DTutor and Duress.  Scrying is horrible when facing the mirror that is running Intuition/AK.

Why not use the Workshops to accelerate out a blue-mana producing artifact, such as Gilded Lotus?  Granted, it would take some major deck modification, but if you're just trying to incorporate both ideas into CS, you're going about it the wrong way.

If you could build any deck using only cards from 4th Edition, what would it be?

In this particular environment, only ante cards are banned, and no cards are restricted (that means 4 Balances, 4 Mind Twists, etc. are legal).

Well said, that's exactly right.  That's why I run it in the MD -- it's versatile and cheap enough, and there are often better solutions to particular matchups in the SB.

AK is only good if at least 1 of them is already in the graveyeard.  W/o Intuition to put them there, that doesn't happen nearly frequently enough (especially if you're running 2 Blessings).  In fact, I'm not 100% sold on the idea that it's the best draw engine for the deck, but I haven't found a better one yet, so...

I'm running 2 MD Needles in my Oath deck, and am considering cutting my pair of Impulses for 2 more.  They're really good, and usually less situational than the MisDs I was running there anyway.

I'm drooling at the prospect of playing against you using that mana base.

2 Blessings are really not needed.  I can see why you'd want a 2nd one in theory, but I have yet to lose a game due to only running one Blessing.  When I ran 2, I almost ALWAYS drew one.

AK w/o Intuition is garbage.  Just cut the AKs and add in the 3rd and 4th Thirsts and a pair of Intuitions.

Mana:24
4 Polluted Delta
4 Forbidden Orchard
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
3 On color moxes
1 Black Lotus
1 Swamp
4 Island
2 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine

Draw/Tutor/Turn taker: 14
4 Brainstorm
4 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Intuition

Control: 15
4 Duress
4 Mana Leak
4 Force of Will
3 Chalice of the Void

Oathness: 7
4 Oath
1 Akroma
1 Hydra
1 Gaea's Blessing

For those who have been following along, here is my latest decklist:

1 Gaea’s Blessing
4 Oath of Druids

1 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
1 Ancient Hydra
1 Spirit of the Night

4 Accumulated Knowledge
4 Brainstorm
2 Impulse
4 Intuition

4 Force of Will
4 Mana Drain
4 Mana Leak

2 Pithing Needle

2 Flooded Strand
4 Forbidden Orchard
4 Island
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Diamond
2 Polluted Delta
1 Sol Ring
1 Strip Mine
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

SIDEBOARD:
3 Arcane Laboratory
3 Ground Seal
1 Iridescent Angel
2 Misdirection
1 Platinum Angel
1 Pristine Angel
3 Rack and Ruin
1 Twincast

I have added a pair of Needles to the MD in place of the 2 MisDs.  Both cards are situational, but the Needle seems frequently less dead than the MisDs.  Must be because of a primarily agrro-oriented environment around here.  It's also invaluable against Vial-oriented decks, especially those packing Meddling Mages.

I also added a Twincast to the SB, for fun if nothing else.  It takes the place of MisD #3 against those matchups where the Cast can really shine.

I really like the 3 creature configuration in the MD, and wonder why those who already run Akroma and Hydra don't run Spirit as well.  This gives you the ability to go into full beatdown mode still if you want, but gives you an answer to annoying creatures (Welder, Platz) that are commonly found, too.  I feel the deck is optimal with 3 creatures instead of two.  Must stem back from my Feeder/Weaver/Morphling days...