It still comes down to removing a MD clock or a MD answer for a card that may help you at some point.  Fish isnt pure control as such the digging for answers is suboptimal to pulling beats.

Fish was my pet deck for quite some time. I started with the mono blue G4Y Fish then the UR, UW, BUW, UG... and so on.  Never did I run Brainstorm and I never looked back. It comes down to this, unless it has legs or disrupts an opponent, dont run it.  Those cards that have legs and cause disruption are the true cards fish relies on.

That being said, brainstorm does nothing.  It lets you dig for another body... so what? It lets you exchange your ninja in hand for the mage 2 cards down... so what? It also ties up your mana when it should be used otherwise to cast legs or disruption.

On the null rod issue; I will not argue about the power of the card. It is obviously very good... not as good as it was though. At this point many decks either have a way around it or just dont care about it.  It does force decks into positions they are not comfortable playing though, like Pitchlong being forced to answer to permanents in play instead of playing solitaire. This may be a reason among itself to run a full compliment of rods.  I play a black splash though in my fish so I cut my rod count down to 2 but I am still running 2 Rod, 3 Stifle, 3 Duress, 4 Mage... more then enough to hinder long for a litle.

Though stacks stretchs to get the colored mana, it is possible.  For those that play 5c, how often can you get the mana? I have been playing 5c extensively since gencon last year and have never really had an issue ramping to 1BUR.  In addition, you can always change up the build some and run darksteel ingot or chronatog totem and the like.

I am not suggesting building the deck around this gem, but as a 1 or 2 of, it would break late games.

Nice artwork btw Vrooman. My shop proxies consist of the word "Workshop" written on a Ravnica Mountain.

I am reading the card fine, I just dont think that changing a current deck to turn it into a reoccuring artifact combo is all that much better than an aggressive deck.  The only card that comes to mind is Jester's Cap but that is entirely too mana intensive.

Artifacts that I like 2 of;

Tanglewire
Smokestacks
Triskelion
Darksteel Ingot
Chronatog Totem
Sphere of Resistance
Anything with A body?
With Karn online, anything at all?

I think the card can be broken with a tweaked 5C build.  The mana base would need to be edited some but it is easily doable but if Mishra hits play it is game over.

Great event for any in the area that can attend.

Owner said guaranteed at 30 people, which we have never gotten less than before.

I will be running them in my casual enchantress combo deck.  Play an exploration, return a wild growth, draw some cards, play exploration land, play wildgrowth on it, return exploration, draw some cards...

Tournament is 3 weeks away, anyone interested?

French\German\Japanese 4th edition are actually our revised and are considered their beta (Revised pics, beta coloring, black border).

I use French, German, or Japanese beta... no idea why though, I just had a bunch.

Actually no, it is a box.  We have always offered a box as an alternative prize and someone almost took it over a mint Bazaar  :shock:

Subject: 10-07 (West Chester, PA) Ravnica Sealed Deck for an Unlimited Mox Sapphire

Location:
Ground Zero Gaming
543 E. Gay St., West Chester PA, 19380

Date: October 7th, 2005

Tournament: Ravnica Release Event -- Players will be given one Ravnica tournament pack and two boosters from which they are to construct a 40 card deck.
Proxy Rules: No Proxies in limited events
Sanctioned: Yes
Entry Fee: $30.00 (Costs covers product and prize structure)
Entry Time: 5:00PM Registration, 7:00PM Deck Construction
Prizes--
1st: Choice of a Unlimited Sapphire or a box of Ravnica Boosters
2nd: Remaining choice from 1st place.
3rd: Half box of Ravnica
Last: Random foil rare
Top 32: Promotional Ravnica release foil

Contact: Jason Leeper (267-241-1878 / Jason.Leeper@gmail.com) AIM: Wyrmcrypt

Notes--
Dealer will be on hand to purchase and sell product, supplies, and singles.

Directions--
Direction to Venue...
Mapquest

Updates--
None

I am confused about the "point" of the deck.  He seems to be taking bits and pieces of Workshop based decks and combining them.  I am only suggesting a more focused point so his deck doesn't run out of gas which I am guessing was his "problem".  Good mana production but nothing to run it into. 

Grant -- Are you aiming for a more aggro deck, a controlling \ prison deck, a colored-control deck, or something else?

Disburden - "Tinker.dec" is a deck that hopes to draw tinker, have it resolve, and be able to grab something to pull them to victory other than a DSC?

I don't think 3Sphere is necessarily bad later in the game.  It forces your opponent to either waste an answer on it or severely hamper their game by attempting to play around it.

To the OP -- Why not try to work in some prison aspects into the deck?  You seem to be playing artifact aggro with splashes but the loss of cards like Tanglewire, Smokestack, and Sphere of Resistance seem very detrimental to your early game.

-1 Platinum Angel (Meta choice on my part.  Too much MD hate to use her as a crutch)
-1 Mindslaver (Could be devastating but I would suggest 2 if you are going inf-slaver route)
-1 Memory Jar (With MD Gifts running rampant, giving them a juicer Yagwin or Recoup doesn't seem to help and you also give them a clutch full of control)
-4 Transmute Artifact (What would you hope to ditch to gain?)
-1 Mystical Tutor (Card disadvantage in a very tempo oriented meta)
-2 Fire\Ice (Great as removal but good old Triskellion should be showing his face)

+1 Mox Pearl (Wasn't there, more acceleration)
+4 Tanglewire (Prision parts)
+4 Smokestack
+1 Trinosphere


You manabase also seems shaky for your main win condition, Sundering Titan.  Have you noticed getting caught under your own titan at all?

** Note -- The idea to go prison is strictly a meta choice.  If aggro is the way you want to go and you see it doing well, go for it.  Personally I see Waterbury being an endless field of 5C Stax, Uba Stax, Gifts, Oath, Fish, and people trying Menendian Arcbound Abortion.

Looking for a vintage playgroup to meet on a regular basis to test Tier, and prototype decks at a West Chester PA store. I am looking to get some testing in before the local tournament at the end of October in Collegeville. Post if you are interested with schedule \ contact info.

To be an FNM Sanctioned event for the FNM promos and what not the event has to be Block Constructed, Type 2, Limited (Draft), or Limited (Sealed).  If the event isn't one of these 4, the owner cannot give out the promos or submit results to the DCI.

I can't afford to drop swords.  A) It is 1 of the 2 reasons I play white and B) is the only spot removal the deck has.  Bouncing a welder every turn is not a viable option.

Kami will probably be put into my board stack but that leaves 7 open slots (2 Kataki, 3 Ninja of the Deep Hours, 2 Kami of Ancient Law) for 12-13 Cards (1 Vial, 4 Spiketail Hatchling, 2-3 Cheater Fish, 4 Chalices, 2 Disenchant).

I actually have not had an issue with Kataki.  I don't play him when I am sitting on 4+ artifacts obviously but I've had him win games when vialed in against stax.

I have one major issue with black lotus; it is an unnecessary risk.  The card is basically dead beyond the opening turns since my curve is 2 and I am open to welder tricks if I use it.  I took it out some time ago because of welders welding out rods\chalice in my old build.

I was looking to work in Waterfront Bouncers, Spiketail Hatchlings, and a 4th vial but I am very partial to my faeries.  They enable broken turn twos but also are great targets for Jittes since I can play both 2nd turn at worst.

My issue with Chalice main board is I would have to cut creatures.  With Vial being an integral part of the deck, cutting more creatures then I already have would be disastrous.  I've already cut control cards like Stifle and what not just to make room.  Right now I have 18 creatures in the deck, possibly cutting to 16 if I can find 2 spots for disenchants so the only thing that would be cut is Jitte which is my welder\weenie removal.

My issue is I am pulling the deck in too many directions.  I want a heavy creature base to handle the vial, but also a descent control element that Fish needs to compete, in addition I am trying to put in Jittes for tricks.

The card he is referring to just has to be unique.  For example, Green Oath, Black Wish, "The card where you get rid of all but 5 cards and lose half your life", and junk like that.  If an issue comes up, I always call a judge.  Most of the time he\she will just tell you the name if you describe it.  Happened to me with Meddling Mage many times.

I have been playing Fish extensively since the mono-blue Merfolk days and refuse to let the deck die.  I played UR Fish at SCG in Virginia in March and ended up 13th or something like that.  I was happy with the deck given it was my first larger tournament and I had the joy of sitting down across from Menedan with Meandeck Oath first round, but I digress.

Rescently the meta shifted drastically and my simple UR Fish with Grims, Bolts, Faeries and what not was no longer cutting it.  I shifted as most did over to UW Fish and as of now I am happy with the deck but I am always looking for improvement.  Below I have a deck list of what I am running right now.  I am looking for any feedback on how to twink it.  I purposely did not include a sideboard because I have a stack of about 100 cards that I carry with me and I make the board right before registration depending on how the meta looks and what weaknesses I see.

--Mana Base (23)
1 Plains
3 Island
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra Factory
4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl

--Spells(19)
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Force of Will
4 Standstill
3 Aether Vial
3 Umenzawa's Jitte
3 Swords to Plowshares

--Creatures(18)
2 Kataki, War's Wage
4 Meddling Mage
2 Kami of Ancient Law
3 Voidmage Prodigy
4 Cloud of Faeries
3 Ninja of the Deep Hour

--Stack of Sideboard Cards
Energy Flux
Pithing Needle
Chalice of the Void
Null Rod
Stifle
Blue Elemental Blast
Swords to Plowshares
Tormod's Crypt
Kami of Ancient Law

Oath also runs 12 Counterspells, 2 Wasteland, and a Strip.  They force the game to go at their speed and they won't Oath out unless they have answers.

I can't.  I think fish as an archtype can't combat it well enough to be consistent.  I honestly wasn't planning on seeing an Oath running as well as yours was, let alone being paired against it first round.  I upped the Tormod's Crypt count in an attempt to slow the deck's progression down some.  I also added Chain of Vapor in hopes that I can buy some time until the oath player can find a brainstorm.  

I can take care of the Spirit of the Night but Akroma is out of my range.  I was even able to outrun a 3rd turn Colossus someone else dropped but the deck as a whole doesn't have the spells needed to compete with Oath.

If I see a good deal of Oath injected into my meta then I will probably be forced to run either my 4C or my Workshop.

I will post a decklist later when I am back in my dorm.

I have been playing fish or a variation of it since January of 2003.  I have never had an issue with BTB and my mana base is as follows;

3 Flooded Strand
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
1 Stripmine
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
3 Island
4 Mishra's Factory

Notice no Faerie Conclave.  Too slow and too bulky.  I also refuse to run the Voidmage \ Spiketail build.  If they are siding in BtB you are siding in REB, as are they.  You just need to catch him off guard and have force backup if it is hindering your game that much.

But, in all honesty, Fish should constantly force MonoU into the defensive.  You are playing a majorly aggro deck.  They cant afford to drop an early game BtB because they need to leave Drain or Leak mana open.  Avoid dropping 2 drops unless you have counter backup.  (Dont want them Draining into a BtB).  This is another reason I dropped the spiketails and voidmages.  I opted to run Lightning Bolt, Unstable Mutation, Mox Monkey, Goblin Vandal, and a bunch of other meta choices to reduce my mana curve to less then 2.