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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Key/Vault is so broken it now has its own thread
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on: May 21, 2009, 02:56:01 pm
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Vintage revolves around exploiting the most efficient strategies in Magic's history, and the decks and deck shells will most often be tailored around these. So why does this merit a new thread that doesn't discuss a specific deck (hint: it doesn't)?
I think the point is that when there are multiple, different decks that are capable of including the two-card combo, there is a problem with the format.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Key/Vault is so broken it now has its own thread
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on: May 21, 2009, 02:31:38 pm
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A very good post which presents both sides of the debate, bravo.
Personally I think Vault needs to be re-errata'd. Even if the original intention of this card's design was so that something like Twiddle would untap this card and allow a second turn, Magic has come such a long way in the 15+ years that there's no way that anyone can convince me that this card is healthy for Vintage or any other format. Maybe back in the day when untap effects were somewhat harder to achieve but there are so many options today that it's just too effective. The fact that Tezzeret both tutors for Vault and can untap it on your first extra turn screams abuse.
How much longer will it be until every deck that can support the two-card combo will run it? With the exception of the DCI printing some new cards that can punish this combo, it shouldn't be hard to see that this will only be worse for the format.
Talking about format diversity, Mana Drain decks have seemingly account for an unprecedented high number of top 8's but what I have not see anyone address besides Fry here is that Mana Drain decks run V+K/Tezz/Tinker/Will. Why wouldn't someone want to run a deck that has such a high amount of win conditions? Taking out a big piece of the win condition will at least force those Drain decks to run something else. Also, while percentages of top 8's are one side of the story, how much attendance is there for Vintage tournaments in 2008/2009 compared to say, Gush era? I think that is something that is worth looking at for consideration.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [Free Article] So Many Insane Plays - Restrict Mana Drain? the Nov/Dec Report
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on: May 04, 2009, 04:21:43 am
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The B&R list is a catch-22. If a card is restricted mearly on its prescence in top 8's, 6 months later another card will replace it and then be on the chopping block, where does it end?
That's not really true. It's not usually the case that a particular engine makes up nearly 50% of top 8s for a prolonged period of time. I think something that should be taken into consideration for this debate is the numbers that Vintage events were putting up during the different eras of the decks people have mentioned. I do not have access to such information and am not sure if anyone does, but it would be interesting to take into account.
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Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: [Deck] ICBM Oath for Vintage 2.0
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on: April 24, 2009, 01:19:32 am
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Thanks! Actually surprised to see Progenitus in the Main Deck. I figured with all the gold card goodness in Alara Reborn we'd have another Oath-worthy creature but nothing seems to top Hellkite Overlord or Progenitus at first glance. Thats because nobody plays it main...its a turn too slow in occasions Yeah, I know it's a bit slower than say, Akroma/Hellkite but since most people run DSC(and seemingly now Inkwell Leviathan is replacing that), Oath is usually slowed down a bit anyway despite the Tinker-ness. I suppose it's meta dependent but if you expect bounce or swords/path, perhaps Progenitus is better as global destruction is less prominent in Vintage. Of course, that's just my two cents and I'm sure at bigger events that one/two turn difference will wind up costing you games against combo.
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Eternal Formats / Blue-Based Control / Re: [Deck] ICBM Oath for Vintage 2.0
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on: April 19, 2009, 04:24:09 am
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yeah I was the unfortunate one that lost in the blue bell finals, but still won a twister...his hands were christmas land...and mine were good but not busted, but I did like his version of oath.
Do you happen to know if there is a decklist posted for the T8 of that tournament? I have looked and haven't found one yet.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: [FREE article] The 2008 Vintage Year in Review
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on: January 14, 2009, 03:41:00 pm
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As a casual player who only reads about the exciting changes in Vintage through places like TMD, this was a really great article. Seeing how in one year the metagame can change so drastically only to wind up at about the same place it started is really interesting from many different points. You did a great job at explaining how decks worked and its advantages and disadvantages and the images and decklists helped to understand those archetypes better.
Would love to see more articles like this in the future!
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Mini-Primer] A Beginner's Guide to Improving FCG
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on: June 27, 2004, 03:44:35 pm
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I think that FCG is pretty much maximized for now. Until we see better goblins, I don't think the decklist will change that much.
But even then, the core goblin list is so synergetic, I don't see what else they could print that would warrant a slot, let alone replacing what goblins we already use.
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Eternal Formats / Creative / Oath of Druids - the forgotten combo control deck?
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on: April 13, 2004, 11:51:04 pm
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Verdant Touch turns a land into a permanent 2/2 creature, I found that it helps against people who don't play creatures to activate your Oath.
Also, perhaps some of the Dragon's ______ enchantments are worth looking into. Dragon's Breath, Shadow, Wings, and Teeth will make your creature near unstoppable. Right now I'm testing a deck with an Akroma, Darksteel C., and a Serra Avatar. Akroma is very consistent and resilient to a lot of creature removal, but some of the enchantments won't affect her. D.C. is effective and a two turn clock, pretty much nothing short of returning him to your hand or StP will stop it. Serra Avatar is just funny because as long as you didn't take too much damage it's game.
Just some thoughts.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Powering Up - In which order?
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on: March 31, 2004, 11:47:22 am
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I feel that since many of the T1 power cards are rather expensive considering a few years ago you could pick them up for half their current cost or less. Examples are Bazaars, Workshops, etc.
I'm not sure if anything besides a restriction on some of these cards will allow them to go down in value instead of up.
So I was thinking of perhaps acquiring some cards, and I would like to hear what everyone's suggestion. Currently I am powerless, but I was wondering what cards I should look into first.
Moxen? Black lotus? Library? Time Walk? Ancestral?
I'm trying to stay away from the Bazaar and Workship since I feel that they'll get restricted and go back to their old price.
I am purchasing my friend's Mana Drains so that would help a blue deck, so I was leaning towards Ancestral since that's pretty much a no-brainer in any blue deck.
What do you guys think?
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Deck] Food Chain Goblins (Budget Combo Goblins)
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on: February 05, 2004, 01:50:04 pm
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Hm. Artifact Mutation is pretty solid...more bodies is always good.
But if you're going to run a G/R instant wouldn't Hull Breach be a much better option? Artifact, enchantment, or artifact and enchantment destruction. Solid, still instant speed, and same mana cost.
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Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / [Deck] Food Chain Goblins (Budget Combo Goblins)
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on: February 04, 2004, 10:43:19 pm
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When Darksteel becomes T1 legal, wouldn't Oxidize be a better sideboard option for artifact hate? It's one CC, instant speed, and no drawbacks.
I feel that with the 4 Taiga's, 4 ESG, and a few fetchlands the G requirement isn't that much for the deck to handle consistently.
Also, what do you think about running Chrome Mox?
I've been playing with it in mine, I find it helps when I have an extra Food Chain in hand or I imprint an ESG since it's a bit more permanent, though easily hated against.
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