@ Benny

The Mindcensor is against Combo alà TPS I think.

so far..

Serenity

hey,

true believer mainboard...

hm sounds interesting.
Would you please be so kind and post a list of yours with true believers in the main?

Like I have already said, I'm thinking about cutting black, but I like the black cards....
I'm still struggling with this^^

so far
serenity

hey nero angelo thanks for your help.

Your tips are pretty cool, even if most of them aren't new for me...
But to name tangle wire against workshop is pretty cool^^

And please don't get me wrong I love the Ninjas...But the problem is that the one drops aren't that good in the late game and at the tourney I have just drawn Ninjas in the early game and one drops in the late game... so maybe it was just not my day^^

Cutting black is something that I'm struggling with...I like the Confis and the Extirpates and the discard effects are even pretty cool. Also you've got more sideboard options.

The problem is just that I feel like I have to include the Meddling Mages in the deck, but I just don't know what to cut. I'm also not sure about the javelineer slots should the maybe be sage of epityr? The sages can be pitched for force, let you stack your deck, help with the confidants and can even be reused by the ninjas. Or should I even include vanillas like Isamaru or Savannah Lion?

I've tinkered with the idea of cutting one drops and ninjas and putting in meddling mages and some card draw like ponder or brainstorm, so that I would end up with something like this:

Creatures(13):
4x Dark Confidant
3x Meddling Mage
3x Kataki
3x Jötun Grunt

Spells(27):
4x Force of Will
2x Extirpate
4x Daze
3x Duress
2x Thought Seize
3x Swords to Plowshares
3x Stifle
4x Null Rod
1x Brainstorm
1x Ponder

Lands(20):
3x Tundra
3x Underground Sea
3x Flooded Strand
3x Polluted Delta
3x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
2x Island
1x Swamp
1x Plains

But like you have already mentioned, my problem is that I have to be more aggressive and this list is a step in the wrong direction...

So my question is would you include Meddling Mages and if yes, what would you cut, and what would you do with the javelineer slots?


Thank you for your help in advance

so far...

Serenity

Hi,
I have tested the deck on a tournament last weekend.
And I get crushed because the meta was flooded with Fish and Stax Decks.
Now my question is how would you play this deck in the mentioned meta?
I´am thinking about cutting black, but like I have already told you this isn´t the kind of deck I like...
Maybe I have to cut the one drops and Ninjas to fit in some Meddling Mages and Katakis, and even the 4th sword and maybe a Darkblast? But the Ninjas are very cool and lead to much cardadvantage....
Any suggestions?

So far..
Serenity

Ok, thank you for your help.

I have edited the list. thats what I came up with:

UWB-Fish

Lands(20):
4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
3x Tundra
3x Underground Sea
3x Polluted Delta
3x Flooded Strand
1x Scrubland
1x Island
1x Swamp

Creatures(17):
4x Cursecatcher
4x Dark Confidant
3x Jötun Grunt
3x Icatian Javelineers
3x Ninja of the Deep Hours

Spells(23):
4x Force of Will
3x Daze
3x Stifle
3x Null Rod
3x Swords to Plowshares
3x Thoughtseize
2x Cabal Therapy
2x Extirpate

Sideboard(15):
2x Extirpate
2x Faerie Macabre
3x Annul
2x Seal of Cleansing
3x Kataki War´s Wage
3x Threads of Disloyality/Jitte ???

Hi guys,
first of all please excuse my bad English, I´am from Germany.
This tread is about the role of unpowered fish decks in the actual vintage metagame.
As a proud unpowered fish player I would like to recreate unpowered UWB-fish, after my old list was bashed because of the restriction of brainstorm. I have played UW-fish for a while,but that isn´t the kind of fish decks I like.
After thinking about playing UR or URBana-fish I saw a list that has awaken my interest.
This was the list of Eric Campusano. It was basically a URBana-fish deck, with white instead of red.
I like the list a lot and tried to build a unpowered list. This is what I came up with:

UWB-Fish

Lands(20):
4x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
4x Tundra (one will be a Underground Sea as soon as I get it)
2x Underground Sea
3x Polluted Delta
3x Flooded Strand
1x Scrubland
1x Island
1x Swamp

Creatures(17):
4x Cursecatcher
4x Dark Confidant
3x Jötun Grunt
3x Icatian Javelineers
3x Ninja of the Deep Hours

Spells(23):
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
3x Stifle
3x Null Rod
3x Swords to Plowshares
4x Thoughtseize
2x Extirpate

Sideboard(15):
2x Extirpate
3x Planar Void
3x Annul
2x Energy Flux
3x Umezawas Jitte
2x Trickbind

The focus of the deck is heaviely mana disruption. Because of that Daze and Cursecatcher get both very bad for your opponent. The Extirpates are in the Deck to remove some non basic lands of your opponent or to remove combo pieces against combo decks. I think the list is ok until now but I think I will get in trouble with Oath or Workshop-Aggro Decks. Also I miss the power of Meddling Mage after duressing your opponent. I would like to fit in some Meddling Mages because they get better with all the Duress and Extirpates effects.

What do you think about the Deck? Do you think this list is ok? What would you change? How should I fit in the missing Meddling Mages? Any Sideboard options?

Please comment...

So far....
-Serenity-

Hey guys,

iam working on a similar deck.
It´s also a fish deck with a heavy eye on mana denial but my built is in uwb.

See the following list:

Creatures(16):
4x Dark Confidant
3x Meddling Mage
3x Sage of Epityr
4x Cursecatcher
2x Jötun Grunt

Spells(24):
4x Force of Will
2x Extirpate
3x Daze
2x Spell Snare
3x Duress
2x Thought Seize
3x Swords to Plowshares
2x Stifle
2x Null Rod
1x Brainstorm

Lands(20):
3x Tundra
3x Underground Sea
3x Flooded Strand
3x Polluted Delta
3x Wasteland
1x Strip Mine
2x Island
1x Swamp
1x Plains
-------------
 60 cards

My problem is, that I don´t own p9 cards so the deck is certainly unpowered.
The strategy is to deny your opponents mana with stifle,waste,strip,extirpate on duals or fetchies,null rod
while you`re beating on him with your guys.
I think there is to little number of null rods in the deck.
Do you think this deck can compete in the actually metagame or will it go under?
I think it´s similar to the deck in this thread but I don´t know which color is a stronger choice (white/green) in this deck.
If you have any comments, please feel free to post.

Serenity

Hi there to all vintage lovers,
as you may already know, vintage as we all know it is dead.
I think that the whole metagame will change post june 20th.
Ichorid will become a house, 9-sphere workshop aggro will definetly be one of the top decks and maybe even Long or other simmilar Storm-Decks will be back.
But what will the new-unpowered decks look like?
Before June 20th fish was a good unpowered deck but how should we replace the loss of brainstorm?
Or should we even replace brainstorm?
Is fish viable?
Or do we have to build new hate decks?
To decide this, we have to look at the decks that maybe will be played.
I think that the follwing decks will define the new metagame:

-Deez Noughts
-Landstill
-Painter
-Goblin(BR)
-Oath
-Ichorid(with and without mana)
-Slaver(because of the manadrain hype)
-9-sphere-ws-aggro
-Long/Tps

So with this in mind, what do we have to hate?
I think we have to hate the graveyard, so black is a color we must include.
And I think we have to hate artifacts, because of painter, the whole artifact mana, deez noughts etc...

So my first thougts went to UBR-Fish, something like this:

lands20:
1 strip mine
3 wasteland
3 volcanic island
3 underground sea
3 flooded strand
3 polluted delta
2 ancient tombs
1 badlands
1 island

Creas15:
3 goblin vandal
3 earwig squad
3 grimmoire thief
4 dark confidant
2 nezumi graverobber

Spells25:
3 null rod
2 thougtseize
4 leyline of the void
4 stifle
3 duress
1 brainstorm
1 ponder
4 fow
3 daze

SB15:
4 diabolic edict
4 pyrostatic pillar
2 ancient tomb
2 engineered explosives
3 energy flux

But the problem is I don´t like the creaturebase, to many expensive cards (hurt with confidant).
So what should I do? cut the leylines to play planar void?how should I change he creature base?
should I cut red for White or even green?

Or isn´t fish the deck to play?
Should we play B/R-Goblin with bitter ordeal, earwig squad, null rod and extirpates to shut down the opponents mana base?

Or is GW(maybe with black) beatz the new hatedeck?  thorn and glowrider to slow your opponent down???

Or am I completly wrong?

What are your thoughts of the new unpowered decks, especially hate decks?

Your comments are welcome.

Serenity

Ps: Sorry for my bad english Iam from Germany...

Hi,
first of all sorry for my bad english I´am from Germany^^

I realy like to play fishy decks, they`re my favourites 

I had played a lot uw and at least uwb fish and I`ve tried something similar
like the Duressed "Noughtless Noughts".

My favourite was UWB-fish, because it could handle all the decks out there.
With UWB-fish I was able to handle almost every deck in my meta.
But now I´m in trouble, the whole meta is going to be more aggressive and aggroish...
The Decks to beat arent anymore TPS, Stax or Oath...
The new Killer Decks are GAT, MUD/Aggro Stax, Tyrant Oath or something like that.
With my old UWB-fish I wasn`t able to deal with the top decks anymore..
Because I´m playing unpowered, I`m just to slow for Stax and I cant play UWB-fish like I want to (no Cutpurses, no mage or confi 1st turn)...
Aggro-Stax is a deck iam not able to deal wiith uwb-fish...

but I don`t want to drop my favourite deck typ, so I need to splash an other color...
my first thoughts went to playing green but which color should i cut?
I considered white to be the color to cut, because black is to essential to cut because of the "cardadvantage machine" dark confidant.

so what color should I splash ?
my first thought went on green because of the "killer machine" tharmogoyf and the oxidizes in sb...because I´m playing unpowered, I wasnt shure about the predators..
at least I played with 2 predators, nimble mongoose, were bears and goyfs, with jitte main.
The deck was able to deal with my horror matchup aggro stax, but it couldnt consistantly beat gat...

So I went on and I read this post about green in fish decks and i looked at the list from stormanimagus where red was played.
And I think back to the days where red has been the color used in fish builds, and so my thoughts went on may urbana fish be the deck to beat both stax and gat???

I tried it out and built a urbana fish deck, thats what i cam up with:

urbana fish (unpowered)



3 flooded strand
3 polluted delta
4 underground sea
4 volcanic island
3 wasteland
1 strip mine
1 mountain
1 island
---
20

4 waterfront bouncer
4 dark confidant
3 ninjas of the deep hours
3 goblin vandal
2 gorilla shaman
---
16

2 thoughtseize
3 duress
3 null rod
4 daze
4 fow
4 brainstorm
4 chain of vapor
---
24

---
60

SB:
3 mind harness
3 annul
2 yixlid jailer
3 umezawas jitte
4 leyline of the void

---
15

after some play testing i made the following suggestions:

the mana base is pretty good, 3wasteland is the right number in my opinion.
i wouldnt play fewer lands because iam playing unpowered and i dont want to
loose to stax or other decks with much mana denial or thorns or spheres or something like that...

the creature base seems to be ok, iam just thinking about adding goblin welder, to deal with bigger artifacts or welder artifacts out to lotus or moxen and kill them with the mox monkey...
playing mox monkey and goblin vandal looks also pretty cool and beats stax. also a high number of onedrops supports the ninja

the spells seems to be standart, but iam not sure about the chains.. maybe they should be something else maybe fire/ice or echoing truth or stifle..iam not sure about that at the moment...

also iam not sure about the sideboard, because i havn`t played this deck at a tournament until now...

what do you think? is that the right way to go if you want to keep playing fish unpowered? or do you like to play it ugb or even the old uwb? anny suggestions?

ps: I hope that this dont look like spamming with another list of fish, because it doesnt run green...
it`s just that i think that red is the better choice for unpowered players...
so please dont delete my post and keep on playing fish

so far

serenity

hi
the decks seems to be a combination of burn and stax lock pieces???

so why don`t add blue????

for forces, stifles and maybe daze....
i would play it alike a ur fish with more lock parts if you like to play them....

trinissphere and sphere of resistance are very good lockcomponents.

but i would like to add the mox monkey (gorilla shaman) and nulll rod for early disruption...

maybe I'm wrong but that seems to me to be the best way to play this deck...

serenity

Yes, maybe you're right and I should cut the nagators instead of the planarvoids for 3 grunts, but ancient tomb is nice with the negator, because i'm playing unpowered....

Also I think it's not hte right way to play grunts, extirpates and planar void in the same deck, because planar void stop the other ones.. what do you think?????

Which 2 cards would you cut to bring the number of cards down to 60????

do you think i should run the tombs, karakas and maze of ith ( because of my aggroish and oath flooded meta),
or do you think I should cut them in favor of more dualz or basics???

and how should i put in daze and stifle <-- I like them both because I'm actual playing 4 of them in my UW fish... xD

I've read some of the other post about the "new age of fish decks" and i've decided to post a list of my own:

3 ancient tombs
1 strip mine
4 wasteland
1 urborg tomb of yawgmoth
1 Karakas
1 maze of ith
3 polluted delta
2 flooded strand
1 island
3 underground sea
2 tundra

3 phyrexian negator
2 Aven mindcensor
4 meddling mage
4 dark confidant
3 null rod
3 planar void
1 vampiric tutor
1 echoing truth
3 swords to plowshares
4 brainstorm
3 extirpate
1 demonic tutor
4 duress
4 force of will

The karakas and the Maze of ith should help the deck to deal with oath decks, that are very often played in my meta...
the ancient tombs should help me to play spells like aven mindcensor, null rod and phyrexia negator earlier.
urborg tomb of yawgmoth is in the deck to make my whole lands to dualz and help to use ancient tomb in the late game, and not get damaged by it.

because of my very aggroish metagame i'm thinking of adding jitte in favour off null rods....
also i'm thinking of cutting the planar voids to play jötun grunt.
also i'm still missing the dazes and stifles to early disrupt the opponents mana base.....

The deck runns only a few blue cards but also runs force of will, so i need to add some blue cards ( maybe the stifles)

 plz help

serenity