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1  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: Ongoing SCG Chicago Results on: November 14, 2007, 02:57:16 pm
I completely agree.  This is the thing that is said everytime something like this changes.  You have to look at the format and decide, is a deck powerful or broken?  Gush based decks do NOT allow turn 1 wins.  They are better in the hands of a skilled player.  They have a lot of weaknesses.  The format was dominated before by Long-type decks, no one was complaining that Dark Ritual needed to be restricted.  People simply look at tournament postings and see that "Oh, the top 6 decks were gush, it needs to be re-restricted".  Well that doesnt take into account that its a matter of the better players playing gush type decks, nor the fact that gush is just a fun card to play with so people play it.  Take legacy for example, the top deck IS definitely threshold, no questions asked.  There are things that beat threshold though and have good matchups against the rest of the field.  However, until someone starts calling it the best deck, the best players won't be running it and you'll continue to see it heavily in the top numbers.

Honestly, I think the format is healthy as ever.  You have aggro being viable.  You have R/G aggro of all things winning a very, very large tournament.  Gush decks.  PlatzPact, which I think is awesome as hell.  Workshops being playable again.  I'm sure that after all of this someone is going to come out with another new deck that is amazing.
2  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: WU Tang Wizards (formerly UR Fish 2K7) on: October 19, 2007, 07:49:13 am
4 mana is a little rough on this deck, and it doesnt really answer anything that echoing truth or StP don't already answer.  Besides that, the fact that he's a wizard will only be relevant with patron wizard because you'd probably never want to sac it to voidmage.  You can maybe give it a try, but I think you'll find e-truth more versatile and better for your sideboard.
3  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: WU Tang Wizards (formerly UR Fish 2K7) on: October 15, 2007, 08:31:38 am
Would we be better suited using Chain of Vapor instead of StP?  Swords is pretty decent against GAT and EmptyGifts, but so is Chain of Vapor or Echoing Truth.  Just wondering if any testing has been done with either of those in the maindeck?
4  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Lets talk about Thoughtseize.... on: October 11, 2007, 10:48:51 am
What I see with Thoughtseize is that subtly the life total is actually starting to matter.  In a vacuum, no I don't care about losing 2 life, I'd play that card to nab something like Magus of the Moon, or Welder, or any number of creatures that can't be caught be discard.  However, we have this older awesome card called Duress too, that does ALMOST the same thing without the life loss.  So, personally, just given the 2 cards you might say that Thoughtseize is still better.  However, lets look at the typical GAT or EmptyGifts deck...

Fastbond = LOTS of lifeloss
Fetches = lifeloss
FoW = lifeloss
Mana Crypt = lifeloss (if you use this, most don't)
Mana Vault = lifeloss (if you use this, most don't)
Vampiric Tutor = lifeloss
Thoughtseize = lifeloss

This doesn't even get into other decks running things like necropotence or dark confidant.  I think maybe thoughtseize is going to be ok lifeloss wise with all the other things, but the way I see this trend going, we may have to really think about it in the future.

5  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: WU Tang Wizards (formerly UR Fish 2K7) on: October 09, 2007, 08:15:19 am
Admittedly, I've only been able to goldfish this so far (hopefully some actual experience later this week), but Gush just helps the deck out.  It feels like you want to gush very strategically.  It can help you cheat your mana at times too, so if you need to play that patron wizard, float 2, gush, play one of the lands again and the wizard for instance.  The interation that I'm seeing as amazing has been with Vial.  Vial @ 2, 2 mana on the board, vial in voidmage, sac the sage from the turn before.  Lets you put the guy down and use him right away.  I got double vial a couple of times and it didnt feel like too much of a problem generally.
6  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: WU Tang Wizards (formerly UR Fish 2K7) on: October 08, 2007, 09:31:51 pm
So Becker, I'm loving the deck so far.  Just doing some goldfishing so far and I like it.  I do agree with you on the Grand Arbiter now, 4 mana is pushing it since gush sets us back a bit sometimes w/out fastbond.  There is one thing I noticed, the deck you posted before is 61 cards.  You said you were playing +1 StP and +1 Aven Mindcensor -2 Envelop in the main.  So I cut the extra StP.  I'm gonna try to get in some playtesting this week with a couple of guys.
7  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: WU Tang Wizards (formerly UR Fish 2K7) on: October 08, 2007, 10:22:00 am
I know that this guy is a little bit expensive, but have you tried out Grand Aribiter Augustin IV maybe as a one of?  I was playing with if for a while in a bomberman list and he's pretty insane against anything thats playing lots of spells and it only helps you out.  With the shift to U/W we have the colors, but it does cost 4 and unfortunately it feels like a wizard, but its an advisor.  On the positive it does still pitch to FoW and Mis-D.

In case anyone isnt familiar ...

Grand Arbiter Augustin IV   {2} {W} {U}
Legendary Creature - Human Advisor
White spells you play cost  {1} less to play.
Blue spells you play cost  {1} less to play.
Spells your opponents play cost  {1} more to play.
2/3

On sideboarding, is the only option for ichorid hate these days hoping to mull into a leyline?  We have no black so its a dead card if we dont mull into it, which feels bad, but there might not be any better option.  If I thought we could get it out there soon enough something like propaganda would do the job, but we'd have to hope for a mox or lotus for it to be viable from what I remember.  Also, I know that leyline stops flash too, but so does most of the rest of the deck I think, so I'm not sure thats an issue either.
8  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Lorwyn impact prediction - vroman on: October 01, 2007, 09:20:28 am
I will make the comment i think that others have made in that Ponder will NOT see play in vintage.  Right now Portent and Serum Visions are not played and this is really just a variant on those.  Opt in this case is a lot better because its an instant.  However, I will say that a few people have been commenting on using disrupt with some success, this seems like a better swap out for opt than Ponder

Sower of Temptation will probably be good for the reason Magus of the Moon is good, Duress doesn't touch it.  Direct removal is also pretty rare in vintage and it suffers the same issue that control magic does, bouncing it will put you back to square 1.  However....

Thoughtseize might catch on over Duress in the coming months.  I think currently this card is overhyped however.  Duress is still really good, and while life IS a resource it does have to be a consideration.  Look at all the lifeloss already out there like yawg bargain, fastbond, force of will, fetching.  This DOES add up, but in combo where its largely irrelevant we might see it because it'll get that Meddling Mage before they can cast it.

Thorn of Amethyst seems good, not sure if it'll see anymore play that sphere of resistance though.  Cards like this definitely help out aggro, but right now its not enough for this format by itself, maybe down the road though.

Spellstutter Sprite seems like a fun trick, but I dont think it'll get there.  Its only gonna hit CMC 0 and 1, which seems no where near as effective as chalice of the void, or playing something like mox monkey.  Unless a deck more faerie focused hits Vintage (which I'm currently doubting) then maybe

None of the Planeswalkers are even worth mentioning.  Ajani has an irrelevant ability.  Jace is too slow (we get 3 cards for U in this format).   Garruck makes creatures and untaps lands, other better ways of doing that.  Chandra is just too slow to win.  Lilianna seems broken when you see a "free" tutor effect, but she's not, nobody pays 2BB for a tutor, they're not gonna pay 3BB for something that costs B in vintage.
9  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Lorwyn impact prediction - vroman on: September 25, 2007, 10:08:48 am
Ponder could be a useful sorcery in GAT decks that start sporting Tarmogoyfs.  IMO, it's a better card than Opt.

Peace,

-Troy

Well, I think there are a couple of issues with that.  A) GAT decks arent going to start sporting tarmogoyf, the list is too tight already and in this deck Dryad is better.  B) Its a sorcery and therefore not better than Opt because Opt lets you cast a vampiric tutor or mystical tutor, then opt, draw the card you tutored, and you've added 3 counters to your dryad.

As far as the other comments.  Gaddock Teeg is pretty solid, especially considering his colors.  Not sure the overall viability, but theres something.  The sphere is really good, especially for decks that want to play some creatures and slow you down.  Thoughtsieze will be one that only time tells.  Personally I'm not sure the 2 life is worth it for a better duress, but who knows.  The faerie counter guy is NOT better than spiketail hatchling, they're completely different.  The faerie counters UPTO cmc = number of faeries in play, which is normally going to be 1 in vintage.  Hatchling makes them pay 1 or counter, that means it can hit any CMC depending on how its played.  Stick with hatchling if you need anything like that currently
10  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Will Ponder (from Lorwyn) find its way into Vintage? on: September 07, 2007, 11:26:11 am
Opt is also amazing at instant speed because it can allow you to use one of your tutors like Mystical Tutor or Vampiric Tutor and then draw the card right away.  This doesnt happen all the time, but enough to make it better.  The only time people will play Ponder is in any place that Portent or Serum Visions is currently played because for all intents and purposes Ponder is strictly better than those 2 cards.  I would say it is also NOT a replacement for Impulse, Impulse is 4 deep at instant speed, and also clears cards out.  I play solidarity in legacy a lot so I know the advantage of following up a brainstorms that involved putting 2 lands you dont need back and then putting them on bottom and getting the card you want.
11  Eternal Formats / Global Vintage Tournament Reports and Results / Re: GenCon 2007 Updates on: August 20, 2007, 11:30:18 am
Ah, sorry I completely forgot about Legacy for a moment, but how many sanctioned Legacy tournaments are there a year?

There are at least goign to be 55 this year.  Legacy Champs @ GenCon.  Worlds in December.  Columbus earlier this year.  And every week in my area we have a sanctioned legacy even that gets approximately 18-25 people.  I'm assuming that there are lots of other sanctioned legacy tourney's too because the cards are more attainable than power and pseudo-power.
12  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: Lets discuss Bomberman today on: July 13, 2007, 11:43:28 pm
What is everyone's opinion of Misdirection?  Would we be better off with a different counterspell in this place, something like stifle, trickbind, mana leak, remand, delay, etc etc?  Or is it just good enough that we should be playing 1-2 of them in the main?  From reading it sounds like there are some mixed reactions on whether the card is warranted.  Sure, its nice to point that ancestral at yourself, and it might be good as the occassional FoW 5-6 but its also costing is a blue card.  Seems like there is some room for debate here, so lets have at it
13  Eternal Formats / Miscellaneous / Re: WUb Fish: Deck Discussion on: June 29, 2007, 03:23:59 pm
Since we're on the fishy subject here, I'm curious about some of the cards to play in this build of Fish, and why to play them or not to play them...

Azorius Guildmage - 2/2 for 2, for 3 mana you can cut off a lot of relavant activated abilities if you have to, and for that same 3 mana we can tap a big threat all day, all the while swinging for 2.  Seems like perhaps some for some of the StP slots?  Just curious

True Believer - I know this guy was played before, any reason he's not still around?  Seems like maybe he's a little bit redundant with Meddling Mage, but I could still see him being reasonable

Savannah Lions / Isamaru - The U/W versions normally play both from what I've seen, commonly a 3/2 split in fact.  Thoughts?

Voidmage Prodigy - He's a walking counterspell, he turns Dark Confidant into a counterspell, the aforementioned guildmage, meddling mage (though I doubt i'd sack him) and so on.

Kataki, War's Wage - Again, in an environment where artifacts can get pretty crazy, seems like a guy who beats for 2 and hurts your opponent's manabase and/or board position would be good

Threads of Disloyalty - sideboard that seems better than old man, and they only cost like $2 to buy instead of $60+, also you get the creature right away.

Yixlid Jailer - I see it in some sideboards but not most mainboards.  A lot of decks use the graveyard, would this guy be ok as a 2-of perhaps in the main?  Leyline seems overall better in the side too since it stops a lot of other stuff.

Aven Riftwatcher - turning a fetch land into a cross your fingers and hope its near the top, and turning demonic tutor into a really slow impulse seems like it would be good for you, however it costs 3 which might be a bit much so what about ...

Shadow of Doubt - lots of tutoring and fetching in this environment, stopping that seems good and getting a card off it is pretty hot too!

Hymn to Tourach - classic hand disruption, any reason we don't use this in vintage to similar affect in vintage?

Thats just some of what i've got, feel free to comment please!
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