You start your legacy deck off with 1x Brainstorm

I feel as if you'll be tapping out a lot which is what a landstill deck can't do. When that happens it gives the opponent the best opportunity to resolve spells. Ie, if you're going against a doomsday deck and you tap out they will be able to beat you're 1-2 FOW. I don't understand the point of liliana in the deck. I think 2x counter/removal spells would be better in it's place.

The way I see it is that this is not a landstill deck. It is a deck with pack rat and standstill to regain parity. Therefore it will not follow the same deckbuilding constraints as landstill would. Going underthis assumption, I think this is how I would build the deck.

1. Cut standstill all together
2. Build around pack rat
3. Maximize internal synergies to gain card advantage
4. Be the beatdown and provide sufficient threats

4 Dark Confidant (To come back after pack rat makes you discard your hand, btw I dont think the rat has really good synergy w/ standstill)
1 Deep Analysis (synergy with pack rat, force pitch, synergy with loam, maybe cut after testing but it could potentially be really good)
1 Life from the Loam (synergy - btw claiming tech right now cause this card is the tits in BUG fish)
1 Vampiric Tutor (I think its needed, might honestly be better as a spellsnare/pierce/fluster/dismember)
1 Ancestral Recall (Assumed)
1 Brainstorm (Assumed)
1 Timewalk (Assumed)
-10-
3 Pack Rat (ehh... I wouldn't personally run this card in vintage but I like deck building constraints. It also provides a unique threat in that it if unanswered will inevitably win the game. So +3 threat density argubly this could easily become 2 truename 1 vclique)
3 Mental Misstep (3-4... you're going to be doing a lot of t1 deathrite/therapies so this is needed)
4 Force of Will (Assumed)
-20-
2 Misdirection (bumped this up to two for the savagery experienced by tom dixon... this is really good at yoinking recalls esp if you already blew one of them to force, a 2nd is completely unexpected. It's good at winning the force war, can stop lbolts to your creatures of interest, can redirect thoughtseizes, etc etc... test 2 then make cuts)
3 Cabal Therapy (I suppose this works with the overall theme of the deck but could be thoughtseize)
2 Snapcaster Mage (I like this in this type of deck and I think 2 is good)
4 Deathrite Shaman (assumed)
1 Hurkyls Recall (assumed, need this md to have a chacne aginst shops/tinker)
1 Demonic Tutor (late inclusion, but this is solid, might be better as a removal spell like trygon as its blue helps in shops/oath sometimes, flies, and is a body)
2 Dismember (needed might be a 4 of md)
-35-

3 Wasteland (I think 3 should be plenty i'm sure you can bump it up though)
1 Stripmine (assumed)
4 UBG Moxen & Black Lotus(assumed)
1 Bayou (I personally like having the ability to fetch black/green)
1 Forest (for deathrite and not losing to shops)
-45-
3 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacomb (gets basics)
-55-
4 Mutavault (maybe -1 this +1 waste... idk if this should even be in the deck maybe +2 misty, +1 Waste +1 cycleland/bazaar/horizon canopy)
1 Swamp (have plenty of blue, deathrites, nothing is heavy blue)
-60-

SB
4 Graffdiggers Cage (dredge, Oath)
2 Yixilid Jailer (dredge, fish)
2 Pithing Needle (dredge, planeswalkers/kuldotha/tezz)
2 Flusterstorm (Blue Control, Oath (most), Doomsday, Random Storm)
1 Hurkyls Recall (Shops, Tezz)
1 Dismember (Shops, Fish)
2 Natures Claim (Shops, Oath)
1 Metaslot (I personally think this would be either another natures claim/echoing truth for shops/oath/tinker/(dredge (et)) matchup)
 

So this deck is obviously not really like landstill it's actually more like bug fish but I think you get more out of your pack rat? maybe not? Idk it just seems bad to discard cards in a landstill based deck when the object of that game is to play like shops in a way and have so many cards and counterspells/removals spells available that it is inevitable that you will win the game with a factory or a jace. Pack rat forces you to play a creature for no reason, makes you run less EE's/deluge/counterspells by taking up space, and forces you to tap out at end of turn leaving you vulnerable to EOT cliques, that human guy no one really plays thtat top 8d that one tournament in bloomsburg, mindscensor which is like a 1-2 of in some decks, restoration angels, etc. eot guys w/f lash is what im getting at. You also lose pretty hard to a resolved deluge/EE on 0. Declare attacks response echoching truth seems bad cause they oyu're like ohh noo blow my counterspells wait ive been discarding... ohh noo they untap and I lose.... good thing no one really runs etruth but me.

You will need at least 24-25 lands in a traditional landstill deck. Idk what those guys are saying but 23 is way too low. Your turns should litreally be draw, play a land, pass. Counterspell/removal spell. Rinse repeat until you can safely cast standstill or have to cast standstill. Rinse repeat until beat down w/ factory or Fateseal with jace occurs. GG. If at anytime, the opponent has more cards than you... you're probably in a bad situation.

Idk good luck with the deck. It seems interesting but I think is strictly inferior to current landstill builds and doesn't really bring anything to the table that benefits the deck in a significant way. Ie, does nothing in the dredge matchup which is bad for landstill. It argubly helps against shops if you resolve it and still have 3 mana and can still deal with their threats and they don't have a smoke stack or kuldotha-->titan or revoker or needle or steel hellkite... like idk seems a little weak there. It doesn't help in the oath matchup as it's a creature that makes more creatures and it only marginally helps in fish type matches as merfok will just race, W/x decks will have all their paths/stps, R/x will have their bolts floating in their hand, and you will eventually be forced to tap out/or a good player will force you to tap out at  a really bad time.

So... I have been testing this deck since my bug deck was stolen. I have started with Josh's list playing against Will M w/ shops mostly. I found that unless you have FoW or the shops player gets unlucky you are very likely to lose game 1. Josh had 2 steel sabotage in his MD which I think might need to be either 1 SS and 1 Hurkyls or 2 hurkyls. The reason was that chalice on 1 literally screws this deck up and you're then forced to ramp lands into a doomsday. With any amount of spheres>1 this becomes pretty difficult. The only way I was able to win with a chalice out was because I got lucky and hit lotus->DD or I was able to eot vamp into lotus. That being said... revolver was another problem if chalice was already out and I don't think I won a game where he had both. Post board, the game became about 50/50 regardless of play or draw. The way I won the most with an EOT DR->Hurkyls or EOT Hurkyls into next turn win. This leads me to believe that hurkyls might be better? Now I understand the point of SS. If you're on the play, you can drop fetch and pass and then have a t1 counter for their t1 threat... if you're on the play. But when you're not on the play game 1, that SS and DRs are absolutely useless in the face of a chalice. For this reason I will be testing at least 1 hurkyls in the main. Additionally, there were a few games where if I was able to tutor up demonic consultation I would have won on spot. This was mostly because of thorn and the fact that maniac is a creature.

This all being said I thought of another shell completely for this deck but want to run it by a few people before I talk about it. I think it might actually be quite good in the shops matchup.

Hey all... so in between round 6 and the top 8, I went to the bathroom and left my deck in there. Right afterwards I went out and sat on a chair outside the bathroom for about 20 minutes (until top 8 started). I get to match only to discover my deck is missing. So long story short, if everyone could look through their things for a Red Mountain mana symbol leather deck box with pink sleeves.. I'm thinking someone may have accidentally thought it was theirs.

The deck I was missing (and top 8'd with) was
BUG Fish

4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 True Name nemesis (1 proxy)

3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Force of Will
3 Mental Misstep

1 Trygon Predator
2 Spell Pierce
1 Life from the loam
2 Natures Claim
2 Dismember
2 Abrupt Decay (proxy)

1 Ancestral Recall
1 DCI Foil Demonic Tutor
1 DCI Foil Vampiric Tutor
1 Time Walk
1 Brainstorm (german commander)
1 Jace, The mindsculptor
1 Foil Steel Sabotage

4 Foil JSS wastelands
3 Underground Sea
3 Tropical Island

1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Forest
1 Foil Strip Mine (Ftv)
1 Black Lotus

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Emerald


SB
4 Leyline of the void
3 Grafdiggers Cage
2 Natures Claim
1 Trygon Predator
2 Toxic Deluge (1 Proxy)
2 Dismember
1 Thoughtseize

Yeah but the thing is a good doomsday player will never let you win. They have too much permission to let an extract resolve. They are also quicker than you finding 2 extracts to take out their two win conditions.

Does it actually matter what you play in vintage?

Lol Thats a top 8!

I really wish Nullstone Gargoyle was better. I <3 That guy. He was always just so close.

4 Confusion in the Ranks
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
4 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Opal
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
4 Norin the Wary
4 Shared Fate
4 Force of Will
1 Ancestral Recall
2 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Time Walk
4 Imaginary Pet
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Mountain
4 Standstill
4 Mana Drain
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal


I think I would build it something like this. Then again this might not win. However here are the choices

Standstill : In multiplier it really punishes a player who plays a spell so in theory it should last longer than normal ones especially if everyone wants those 3 cards.
Mana Drain: Stop their stuff, and mana ramp into good stuffs.
Norin/Pet: Combo w/ confusion
Shared Fate: Becuase why not. Else -> Mulldrifter seems fine or another draw engine.
Hurkyls: Trade yours all out bounce them all back I suppose.

I may have also went overboard on the mana base.

Hopefully having this here will spark interest to non vintage players which may then increase our regular attendance
That being said Boo Earns for BoM. That being said, I hope BoM can figure something out maybe a reschedule to their part in October?

We should get the event catered// Pay an extra 5-10 bucks to have it catered.

Yes but think about what this does for combo based decks. Maybe it will balance out the format.

Nah but a lot of it is knowing when to use them. Pretty much only against shops, dredge and oath do  I try and keep hands with land 2x SGS and a magus, then rush out magus. Against landstill, salvagers,  bob control, you want to land vexing susher followed by pretty much anything. Most of the time against blue decks I will save the spirit guides as 2/2s and use them as threats.  From what I found susher is awesome likewise the thruns in the board. Not having things being countered is great. You can also do really tricky plays with spirit guides. Ie, tap out to play goyf leaving no mana for susher. Ohh wait, you got burned sorry, pitch ssg can't be countered? Yes... that does fizzle.

Dismember is unfortunately necessary. You really needed a better way to answer creatures and it nicely kills kuldotha, salvager, and lodestone. It dodges chalice for the most part.

Yeah for me I never even boarded the pulverize in. I played some test games against shops when I got home post board and found that if I had it it was w/e but sac-ing 2 lands does kind of suck.

Idk, mayor could be really good. Right now decks don't do something everyturn. Salvagers wants the game to go long, same thing with shops and same thing with landstill. Sticking this guy early could be fine.

How are the regrowths?

On 5-11-13, I played this at Top Deck Games. Going into the tournament I expected Kohlers Salvagers, 2 butker doomsday decks, Potucheks landstill, Random Shops (Will M being one, landscaping with terranova, random kuldotha), most likely merfolk by Lim et al, And Unfortunately Dredge. I did not expect to see much Oath.

John Jones
Quarterfinalist
“RG Beats”

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Vexing Shusher
3 Tin-Street Hooligan
2 Ingot Chewer
2 Stingscourger

4 Lightning Bolt
2 Dismember
1 Blood Moon

1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby

4 Forest
4 Taiga
4 Wasteland
2 Mountain
1 Strip Mine

SB:
4 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Dismember
2 Ingot Chewer
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Blood Moon
1 Pulverize


Lost my slip -  No tourney Report

Card Choices
- Wanted to Maximize 4 of's because that is best. Ie, I have slots in my deck, they are dedicated to beating certain match ups. If I am going to bring cards in and out I might as well have the best option that I am already running.
- I like to think that certain numbers just seem right in a deck as such there are 1 of's and 2 of's for reasons. Generally it is that 4 is not enough but 8 is to many.

Magus: Good right now? Seems so.
Metamorph: 4 is to much, should be 3 and +1 dismember. If tinker comes back then maybe stay at 4.
Revoker : Notice the lack of null rods, that is because you have 4 revoker as well as artifact destruction main. This may need to be 3 then +2 null rod and -1 of something else.
SSG/ESG: Obviously. Note: Sometimes the right play is to hold them.
Susher: I liek this as a 4 of. Peoples say drop it to a 3 I say no. It is how you beat chalice on 2. It is also how you beat landstill and bomberman.
Tin Street//Chewer: I like Chewer Main. It is either him or grudge and I think I would rather have a creature late game and a way to kill chalices early game.
Stingscourger: Good in general, bounces random dudes, allows you to swing. Outright kills illusion guy.
Dismember: Should be 3, -1 metamorph. This card is absurd and necessary.
1 of blood moon: I felt as if I wanted 1 more moon effect.

SB
4 Grafdigger's Cage - Brought in against oath and dredge
3 Tormod's Crypt - Brought in against oath and Dredge
2 Dismember - Add 1 to the main, fill in x2
2 Ingot Chewer - Fill in x2
2 Thrun, the Last Troll - Like
1 Blood Moon - Like
1 Pulverize - Don't like//never played

Hey, I haven't looked at this but wanted to say thanks. Also that's how we played it.

I would like to be added to the list

Note: Comes from the guy who literally missed 1-2 events in the past 2 years.

If I had money I would play. That being said I would still try to attend a few.

Lol wtf is the point of hacking that website other than to say that you hacked a website. Literally no hard value. But that sucks, its a great resource.

Hey all, so this weekend at Lancaster I either left my deck on a table and it was picked up or it was stolen. Either way I don't have it now. It's a lot of proxys but it has tombs, lodestones, wires, spheres, thorns, leylines, factories etc...
It was in a robotic dragon deck box, (the one Jake gans has if you're familar) any help would be appreciated.

Note: Just for reference, it is not that bad.

Can't you just go the slow route and severance into the win?

So the way I see it is that there will be three things that happen the first is that people will get mad the second is that the people will get over it and the third is that they don't actually care. I am for the option of them not caring. Goblins and Landstill have an interesting matchup becuase of Chill and Sirocco. And when you really analyze it how do the machines know if its fish for all we know it could be fish could be nothing more than chicken. And we would have no idea.

Realmwright 
Creature -Vedalken Wizard   
As Realmwright enters the battlefield, choose a basic land type.
Lands you control are the chosen type in addition to their other types.
There is not a single inch of Ravnica that hasn't been altered at one point or another to fit someone's whims.
Illus. Slawomir Maniak   1/1


This guy seems to be able to maybe make blue shops viablae. It is a vedalken and a wizard which combos well if you want to run cavern and other blue dudes like Master T or Master of Etherium. Your workshops now add blue which means you may beable to support recall, walk, and force and perhaps something elsE?

Yeah I played him round 1 and it somewhat ruined my tournament especially since I felt I deserved a rd 1 bye. idk. annoying I suppose. But I did get a snickers and a coke out of it, so I can't complain too much.

My brother and stepdad may be around to film but I'm not sure if they would be up for it. They might since I don't see them often though. I can ask...

Jace works, duplicant works, nevs disk works, oring works... fiend hunter works, metamorph works etc

I play metamorph copying something making metamorph an artifact something. As Sculpting steel comes into play, does it look at the metamorph being a metamorph or would the sculpting steel copy the something?

ie
Metamorph copying Goyf
Play sculpting steel do I get a metamorph to copy anything or a Goyf

Okay well boo to not buying points. 

Gl everyone.
 I am playing one of the following decks

2004 espresso
Turbotezz v1.5
Turbotezz v2.5
UB AoB tezz
Uwb bobsnapflashguys aka s.g.
Merfolk -vial +null
This sick hightide deck that is so close to working but doesn't.
Landstill with something crazy like 4 disk and 4 ostone main
Bsc nonsense oath with an infinite mill combo?? Whaaa!!!??
Dredge *rolls eyes* I have it I guess. It is nutty sometimes.
Salvagers
Something with yawgs will for a change
Lichs mirror with burning wish for channel
Bwg doran shaman smash
I'm definitely forcing ancestral recall. Regardless of what I'm playing I will make it work, cept shops. Unless its running cob. Then maybe.
I would also like to run stiflenaught that would be sick to bring back. MM makes it better....

It's times like these you wish you had $1000 and 10 clones.