With the information you have provided I am going to guess that

a) The land and mox in play did not produce B
b)The land in hand did not produce B

If either of these did then a first turn Bob or Vamp in response to duress would/should have happened.
Your opponent is still 3 mana away from casting Tez (2 counting land in hand)

It really depends on what else is in your hand, you state no control but do not say what your holding.

So with the vague information I could sway either way on this.

If your opponent hit a black source then vamp for lotus or other accel to get tez into play, or vamp for some
gas, or Bob to gain CA.

By the sounds of it you were afraid of Tez and made the call.

All I can say to this is the folks at Ustream/ggslive deserve the biggest thanks I can muster!!

This was the best Vintage I have seen in quite some time and thoroughly enjoyed watching.

Congratz to the top 8.

Cheers
Clint

The New Zealand Vintage Nationals Winner was Simon Winder and there was only 12? players

Only 3 with power (Obv bazaars in ichorid could count as power)

Cheers
Clint

I have something very similar to this.
One thing I hate is running into Null Rod as it shuts your Orb out.

I run Reap the Rewards as an additional life gain, with all the 5c lands its not hard to get W.

Also Intuition is a huge bonus in this deck.

I just found this thread and started reading, WOW.
Wicked cool idea, and Hermit is easier to acquire than Oaths too...

But then as I continued reading the thread got derailed into what looks like a Ddaay with Wheel???
So far you guys have added Meditate, 2x Peer through depths, tendrils and several wheel of sun and moon.
All it seems is that you are trying to avoid being destroyed by a SB Leyline, is this correct?

Why not just run Chain of Vapor or anything else that deals with Leyline, even better would be Seal as it deals
with Time Vault as well?

I just can not see the sense in running subpar cards in the board or main to do a neat trick because of a single SB card.

Also is it possible to have you PM me the list that you are using?

Not trying to sound negative, just trying to understand the reasoning.

Cheers
Clint

Soo true.

Outside notes would save soo much time. I have a "Book" on piles that can win under different conditions and trying to remember them is impossible.

As for Gush pile.


Ancestral
Black Lotus
Lion's-Eye Diamond
Yawgmoth's Will
Tendrils of Agony

So you have to have sea x2 or sea and island in play

so it goes...
Tap sea Dark Ritual (Storm 1), Doomsday (Storm 2)
Set the above stack
Tap Island U floating, Gush (storm 3) drawing Recall and Lotus. Play Lotus (Storm 4), Recall (Storm 5)
Drawing LED, Will and Tendrils.
Play LED (Storm 6) Crack Lotus BBB Play Will (Storm 7) and in response crack LED BBB
Replay your graveyard and Tendrils

Just one of the few.

I dislike Wheel of sun and moon in Doomsday, but just my opinion.

Cheers
Clint

Short answer:
No

Long answer:
They are 2 completely different decks. Sure there are possibilities that could be put together to form a Dday pile, but why would you want to pollute ANT with Dday? If you get to resolve a Ad Nauseam, then flipping a Doomsday is just 3 life for no benefit. And at maximum you would only run 1 misers copy.

Also, Dday is best with Desire, Gush etc etc which you would also not want to run in ANT.

Just my 2c

Clint

The last Steven Seagal movie???

Which is probably liked as much as this new damage rule

I know this may sound strange but I still play Doomsday with Beacon of Destruction

The "old" lists never used R&D to the extent that is now being used.

Exile does not really effect this kill condition.

So Doomsday without R&D is still playable.

||Library Top||
1) Ancestral Recall
2) Black Lotus
3) Dark Ritual
4) Mind's Desire
5) Beacon of Destruction
||Library Bottom||
How does this win? You Ancestral into Black Lotus, Dark Ritual, and Mind's Desire. You play the Ritual and the Lotus and cast Mind's Desire with storm count four or more. Then the first Desire copy resolves, finding Beacon. You cast it at instant speed, and it shuffles back in before the second Desire copy resolves. This happens a total of four times for twenty damage.

For reference here is the "Old Skool" decklist

Meandeck Doomsday
3 Island
1 Swamp
2 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea

1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Lion's Eye Diamond

4 Dark Ritual
2 Cabal Ritual

1 Chromatic Sphere

4 Doomsday
1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Will

1 Timetwister
2 Rebuild

1 Gush
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Mind's Desire
1 Mystical Tutor

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm

4 Duress
4 Unmask
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor

1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Beacon of Destruction

Out of date but still a good starting point if interested in building

Cheers
Clint

I like the Mono black idea.

But as said the 4 Sinkhole/Hymm look out of place.

Here is a list I played in a non-proxy event.

2 Island
3 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea

4 Dark Confidant

4 Ad Nauseam
4 Duress
4 Thoughtseize
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
3 Chain of Vapor
3 Tendrils of Agony
1 Hurkyl’s Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Demonic Consultation
1 Yawgmoths Will
4 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lotus Petal
1 Necropotence

Sideboard
2 Hurkyl’s Recall
4 Xantid Swarm
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
2 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Yixlid Jailers
2 Engineered Explosives

It is pretty much a stock list, and plays out extremely well.

I used Bob, and he was amazing. Not having Ancestrall kinda sucks, but he pulled his weight.
If you have the Lotus and Jet then it gets better.

But for your list I would recommend testing Bob out. I could see your list struggling if it doesn't
open a hand with 1 of either your 4 Ad Nauseams or 3 Tutors.

But I haven't tested your list so it is just idle speculation.

Cheers
Clint

No offense Stormanimagus, but I thought this was going to be a pretty sweet post
about Doomsday deck...

But alas, this is not your Selkie strike (which I really like playing BTW)

First up is the statement that this deck is more susceptible to hate than other combos.

As a long time Doomsday player this is not quite true. As after resolving doomsday you can pretty much
find any 5 card pile that can win.

Second, you have only noted one win condition. People who want to play this deck really need to test this
extensively as if you go into tunnel vision and only see the one win set, then you will not have a good day playing.

Third, That decklist is not what I would call an update. Not a very helpful comment I know, but
I currently think Tommys list is pretty close to an updated Doomsday (see below for thread)

4 Gush. I am hoping that they unrestrict it too as this deck does benefit from having 4.

I recommend anyone even contemplating playing Doomsday read the following articles
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/8410_The_Doomsday_Device_The_Coolest_Win_Condition_In_Magic.html
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/vintage/9361_Rehearsing_the_Doomsday_Scenario_Learning_How_to_Build_Optimal_Doomsday_Piles.html

Recently TK made a top 8 with a Doomsday TPS hybrid that has been testing pretty well
http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37805.0

Sorry if I sound a little harsh, but my hopes were dashed pretty quick when I read it.

Another great read.

I really love your counter-arguement? if you could call it that, that is posted above.

It's like another article!!

So you want to make a budget Storm deck...

Why are you not playing an Ad Nauseam list? They on average only play 5 Power.

You could switch up the power for Bobs?

Just a thought.

Nice deck.

But I have one question


Round 3 VS Robert (tez)

Game 2 (no sideboarding)
I live the dream and get chalice at 1 and 2 on my first turn.  With this we have a couple of counter wars, some goyfs go back and forth across the red zone and he eventually has to concede to my 3x tarmo and strip loam lock.

I take it the Chalice at 2 didn't resolve???

Other than that it seemed like you had a blast.

Cheers
Clint

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this article.

The post script was impressive as well.

You also hinted that Burning Wish and Frantic Search should be looked at.
Did you make any list for these to cards? if so, how did they turn out?

Cheers
Clint

I read this whole paragraph as: The game one match up of Ichorid boils down to winning the coin flip.

All they need is one activation from Bazaar and it is all over for you. So to be able to Stifle Bazaar you would have had to win the coin flip.
As for blocking with Aven, sending in Ichorids to lose Bridges seems like a stupid idea so building a force that will overwhelm you seems
like a stronger play.

And Jotun is not strong enough to stop Dredge.

Just my 2c

I must admit, with black your sideboard options against dredge become a lot better.

Although I really like the addition of black for Bob and Duress...

I believe Stormanimagus's Selkie Strike deck is superior than this list.
Has basically the same disruption minus Duress but is a lot stronger overall.

Also you state that you have a good match-up game 1 against Ichorid, but all I can see
is Echoing Truth/Wasteland/Strip Mine? How does this win game one when you give the ichorid
player soo much time?

EDIT: Guli bet me to the same question

What I can not understand is if drains are dominanting @40% and Workshops dropped to 10%

Why is it that people haven't audibled to Dark Rituals?

Rituals good match-up is everywhere and its bad match-up has lost ground.

I believe his closing statement addressed this. It wouldn't increase his chances but give him a chance.
And anything that has a chance could pull off an upset.

I am really loving these Budget decks. As I live at the bottom of the planet it is hard to get my hands on power, and
when they do pop up for sale it is at stupid prices (Damn the exchange rate!!!)

In New Zealand we only have 2 non-proxy events per year, and first place is the BIGGEST trophy in New Zealand MTG.
We do not have a large vintage scene and decks like this promote it to those that are interested.

One question I have is do you believe that there is a viable Budget Tendrils combo? or is Elves and Belcher it?
At our last non-proxy event I ran Ad Nauseam Tendrils w/Bob Switching the power for more disruption.
got destroyed as there was to much burn 

Anyway, thanks
Clint

Quite a broad question.

It really depends on a lot on the gamestate and what is being held in hand.
I do not know what TK did but here is a one I would have tried...

2 lands (B & U)

Pile
//Top//
Ancestral Recall
Black Lotus
Dark Ritual
Mind's Desire
Research/Development
//Bottom//

Plays out:
Draw and play Recall, Play Black Lotus sac for UUU and Dark Ritual. UUUBBB floating Storm 3
Play Mind's Disire, Flip R&D, play R&D before the other 3 copies of Desire resolve, getting 2 copies of Tendrils.
First tendrils will have a storm of 5 and the other will have 6.

Other than that there are other piles of 5 if you have a piece in hand or something like Bstorm or Gush.

I have been playing Doomsday for quite sometime and really like this list.

Would like to hear how it went for TK.

Cheers
Clint

I love the Doomsday TPS list.

Still would want to throw in a Beacon of Destruction!!!

And I agree with Owen on the lists, good to see someone type out the correct names.

Cheers
Clint

Hey Gerry

Wicked report, I had to look up the oracle text for Remora after this statement

In your report you state

Quote
"He reveals Ancestral of Confidant and tries to Tinker. I draw a card off remora, then try to cast Meditate. For some reason, he
Forces the Meditate removing Ancestral, I draw a card, and then Force Tinker removing Leviathan, which resolves"

After reading that I had to check as I thought it was only when a spell resolves!!

Reading for the win.

As soon as I read the first paragraph I knew is was going to be an epic laugh of a report!!

Really enjoyed reading it.

Cheers

Interesting direction to take.

But I do not believe this is stronger than the current Tez decks.

First of, I haven't tested this and am only noting things I could see going wrong.

They bounce or REB your enchantment. I understand that you are running 12 Counters
but getting into a counter war over a bounce/REB could be bad for you. If you win your good,
But lose the counter war, and it kinda means you lose the game as well.

Yet with Tez that is not the case. If Tez resolves it goes busted, if not at least your win is still
in the deck.

How often has it got into a counter war and has had the mana available to Pay for pact or combo that turn?

Just as a side thought, would high tide help?

Just my 2cents

I am all for changing the names of zones (Battlefield and Exile) but removing something like mana burn seems a little OTT.

What next? Removing the rule that states you lose if you can not draw a card from your library?

Mana Burn is not that complex. As it has been said before, it is BASIC mathematics. 4-3=1 , It is not that hard.
Even a 10 year old has the capability to work that out.

I am hoping that this never comes into effect.

Mmmmmmmm... Pictures....

I remember when SCG.com used to do it to the premium articles.

Overall a splendid article to read.

One card I have found to be good but have not seen in a list before is Dead//Gone.

I have been using this as a singleton main and am loving the flexability.

It kills Welders, Bobs etc etc and can bounce DSC or Hellkite (not so good against Akroma)

Cheers Steve that was a good read.

I find it funny that you are so scared of the ichorid matchup (with good reason) and then come across Jerry and
his concoction, completely wrecking your post board plan.

Well it was good to see you don't just write about your victories, and take your beats when they come.

Cheers
Clint

Maybe I am just being greedy...

But after my last post I had a play around with adding TFKs.
This is a rough list and I haven't tested but like the look.

4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Intuition
3 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Brainstorm
3 Thoughtseize
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Regrowth
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Echoing Truth
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Tinker
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Time Vault
1 Voltaic Key
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will
5 Moxen
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Black Lotus

3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Tolarian Academy
2 Island

Like I said I just might be a little too greedy. But drawing cards feels soo good.

The one cut I am unsure about is Mystical Tutor, I really do not like running it with Vampiric and
as I have added more blue spells the ability to pitch to FOW is not hindered. I never really liked
Trinket Mage so he got the chop aswell.

Cheers

I see a lot of arguements over Intuition/AK over TFK but has anyone tried to run both?
Maybe TFK as a 3 of?

Years ago there was a slaver variant that ran both, I think it was "Goth" Slaver (Can't find a list)

If someone has tried this I am very interested to know the results.

Just a thought