Fractured Loyalty

Enchant Creature
Whenever enchanted creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, that spell or ability's controller gains control of that creature. (This effect doesn't end at end of turn.)

I have a question about this situation:

I have enchanted with Frac a Psychatog or a Wild Mongrel. I target the creature with a Lightning Bolt.
Before lethal damage is dealt to the creature, can i have the priority to pump it using the creature ability ?

I assume the stack is this:

- Bolt targeting the creature
- Triggered ability of Frac

I resolve the Frac ability from the stack. The creature is under my control.

Now i have the priority before bolt is resolved, so i can pump the creature.

Why not play Vampiric Tutor ? Could it be swapped in side for the Berserk...

@ Arvid
I think you are going in the right direction.
I would suggest you to swap Pillage for Vandal, but i wanted see if you get this alone !

For reference, this is my new list, that is very similar to your:

4   Grim Lavamancer
4   Slith Firewalker
4   Goblin Vandal
4   Jackal Pup
4   Lightning Bolt
4   Incinerate
4   Shrapnel Blast
3   Null Rod
4   Ankh of Mishra
1   Black Vise
1   Lotus petal
1   Sol Ring
1   Chrome Mox
4   Wasteland
1   Strip mine
4   Mishra's Factory
12   Mountain
   Sideboard:
3   Rack and Ruin
4   Pyrostatic Pillar
3   Tormod's Crypt
4   Pyrokinesis
1   Null Rod

I had Blood Moon in sideboard, but after testing it a lot, i have found trouble because of the casting cost. If you cannot play it turn 2, is hard let it resolve. And because i run Mishra's Factory main, too !

I want 4 Shrapnel Blast, because they are awesome finisher like Price of Progress or Fireblast and because i run maindeck 8 Artifact that can be dead in aggro match (especially Vise and Null Rod).

@ slighguy
About Scald: it is a great sideboard card against control, but i think Pyrostatic Pillar is more flexibile (shine against combo) and can have the same effect of Scald in control matchup.

Slice and Dice: It seems a bit random to put this in side only for the keeper matchup. You have already Scald for this ! Obviously can be very good in your meta.

@ Clown of Tresserhorn

If you replace Fireblast with Ankh of Mishra you have a standard Ankh Sligh build and you have improved matchup against Keeper, Landstill, Gay/r and Dragon.

Pillar main is a good choice in the right meta, it can be replaced by Incinerate in an aggro field and can be sided if you play against Tog or Combo.

I think to beat Workshop decks you need at least a pair of Goblin Vandal and Null Rod beetwen main and side, Rack and Ruin can be sweet if you find room for it in side.

As i have said just before, try to test against Tog, Slavery and C. and you will see what Toad and other are trying to explain you.

For the reference, only because i have an insane love for sligh, i will submit my list, hope can help you. But i know it is very hard, if not impossible, win a tournament with this deck in today metagame:

3   Grim Lavamancer
3   Slith Firewalker
2              Gorilla Shaman
4   Goblin Vandal
4   Jackal Pup
4   Lightning Bolt
4   Incinerate
3   Shrapnel Blast
4   Tangle Wire
4   Ankh of Mishra
1   Black Vise
1   Lotus petal
1   Sol Ring
1   Chrome Mox
4   Wasteland
1   Strip mine
4   Mishra's Factory
12   Mountain

   Sideborad:
3   Rack and Ruin
4   Pyrostatic Pillar
4   Null Rod
4   Pyrokinesis

More Vandal than Shaman is a total metagame call.
I am testing Tangle Wire, but i think that i will switch to something else, probably Shaman / Null Rod, for much artifact hate. If i main deck Null Rod i can put Tormod's Crypt in side for it.
But believe me, this is a hate deck that even can lose with this configuration against Slaver and Workshop variants.

Look your mana curve, it is filled of casting cost spells of 2 and 3, with only 4 first turn play: jackal pup.

You have a lot of permanent hate, but little source of permanent damage (pup, firewalker, ankh and vise) and little removal (only lightning bolt).

This mean a control player have the time to create card advantage and than find answers for your treats. Look at decklists like Keeper, LandStill, Hulk.

Combo player have the time to win his game before you can disrupt him. Usually combo without disruption win on turn 3 on average, if not faster !
(Dragon, Tendril decks, Charbelcher Combo)

Aggro player can overwhelm you because you lack of answers to deal with his horde. (Madness, Osawa Stompy, FCG, ecc..)

I suggest you to test against this deck and begin to refine your decklist.

I don't wanna give you any card advice because my list is so different from your and you should not understand some choice before a good test.

What happens if i stifle a not activated Hidden Gibbon enchantment ?
Nothing happens, because the enchantment remains in play, or Hidden Gibbon goes on grave because is not an enchantment and because is not a creature ?
I think the first answer, thanx for advice.

Does anyone have the list of top 8 decks ?

Thanks a lot.
I have found an answer for my doubt.

My question is simple, but i want to be sure to know the correct answer:

Case A)

- I play an instant or sorcery spell (A) - pass priority
- Opponent counters it
- I fork the counter

Result: Spell (A) resolves.

Case B)
- I play an instant or sorcery spell (A) - pass priority
- Opponent pass priority back
- I fork the spell (A) - pass priority
- Opponent counters spell (A)

In this situation, Fork fizzles ?

Thanx for the answer  

I see Ankh of Mishra as a land desctruction spell, a source of colorless damage and a control card all in one !
When you play Ankh the opponent has to change his strategy. Have to think to drop lands, if it does can be bolted away by you. If not, the number of option he can play are drammatically reduced.
This is clear in the control matchup. But is true even in the aggro match. Obviously, if you draw it in mid late game the card is less stronger, but in this part of game you should have control or are dead anyway.
Ankh was a great improvement in the modern Sligh build, you can toy with other cards like Tangle Wire as someone is trying, but if you cut it i think is more right to play Goblin (with Recruiter the deck has a new dimension of control without losing focus).
Sinceraly, if i had the card to build Food Chain goblin, i probably play it. I think in this metagame has the same chance of Ankh Sligh against control but better matchup against other decks...

Hi everyone,
i try to answer sowe issue:



I am glad to see Fëanor has arrived to this conclusion, simply Mancer doesn't belong to this deck and can't substitute Cursed Scroll or a creature slot.

For me the debate is not between Mancer and Fanatic, but i am seriously thinking to cut Pup over Fanatic. (and don't play Mancer, obviously).
This is for match like Madness, mirror, Goblin, Fish, RG Beatz, even TnT or wMUD, ecc...
Against control Pup is stronger, but only if you can attack 2 turns in a row.
Attacking only one turn make the same damage ('cause you can always sacrifice Fanatic to deal the extra dmg).
But if you can attack 2 or more turns just mean only one thing. You are already winning. You have depleted opponent resource in the previous turns and now you are finishing the opponent. Doesn't care at this point one or two damage, you are already in a winning position.



This answer is simple: you are not more playing Control (Ankh) Sligh. You are trying to go the route of beatdown, so you better playing Gobbo Advantage or Food Chain Combo.

I see in some list the use of Mishra's Factory. Now, because you are thinking to cut Mancer, isn't stronger Barbarian Ring ? Obviously with Fireblast in main deck. Try to think... Mishra have to be able to attack to deal damage. Barbarian deals damage immediately (with threshold, ok, but with two maindeck you draw it only in midgame). Is the same motive because you play Fanatic over Mancer. Speed. Flexibility. Win now, not after...

Ok, i have finished. I think there is room for a good debate.

This is my last post, amen.
I suggest to everyone to read this link, from the beginning to end:

http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=11851

Here you will find the answer to all question posted in this forum, i don't want comment this answers because everyone is free to do himself.

I am only sad that Legend is not posting anymore, he was an example of how to make a valuable discussion.

My intention was not start a flame, but only have a bit of consideration.
Thanks to Fëanor who give me a civil reply.
I now would explain better my choice:

- Vandal over Pup

Advantage:
Not dead in the mirror
A real threat against some major archetype (TnT, MUD, wMUD, LandStill)

Disadvantage:
Is not a 2/1, so can't win the damage race against pup

The point is, do you really care the disadvantage when you have depleted opponent resource  (in combination with wasteland / strip / Ankh ) ?
In type1 artifacts are used for land slot, right? They are shaman little brothers and have good sinergy with the deck theme.

- Fanatics over Grim Lavamancer

Advantage:
They don't suffer summ sickness to use the ability.
The ability can be used on Turn 1 (lavamancer can be used in the best case Turn 2, but you really cast it turn 1 before are able to use it ?).
The ability doesn't need tap.

Disadvantage:
They don't deal 2 damage.
They don't let you reuse graveyard resource already played.

Lavamancer is better obviously of Fanatics, but in this deck is more diffult to use Lavamancer ability than other decks like Gay/r and R/g Beats.
There are situation where you are on a clock with your opponent at 1 life, the flexibility of fanatic can give you the chance to topdeck and use it immediatly.

Vise - Fork / Fireblast:

This is harder to explain with advantage / disadvantage.
Vise is stronger in the first turns of the game. Against control wins game alone, better than cursed, just don't play anything and let him die.

Fork is a general purpose card, has good sinergy with your bolt (and some sideboard cards in side like crash or pyrokinesis). But it can copy opponent spells too (midtwist and ancestral are the better). Remember the mirror example...

Fireblast is good only in the mid-late game and only when your opponent is in a position of low life (10 or less).
In this part of the game, if you don't have control of the match you lose even if you draw Fireblast (control have the counter 90 % of time because have outdraw you).

In the early game Fireblast is a dead draw, you don't use it before turn 3 / 4 unless you are desperate. And you need double mountain...

So your point is, i don't face that, i don't face here, i face what i want...
It is not this in real life...

It is half true, only vise is good against control. Fork is good in many match, even mirror, when you are so close at life to die. Example, we are both at 3 life in topdeck mode i draw fork, you topdeck bolt and saying with a smile: Bolt you, win !. In response i fork it: I win ! (because my effect goes on stack after yours and you die first). Fireblast are good (random) against only aggro.

I have tested before say something, without cards in graveyard lavamancer is hard to activate, how do you put cards in grave ? Fireblast ? No mountain, no mana to activate, bad sinergy with Ankh. Bolt ? ok, but when you have removed one time you are out of gas. You really activate Mancer more than one time in a game ? Or are you never played your list ?

It is not worst than pup ! It has sinergy with Ankh if the opponent don't play cursed. Try to fireblast me when i have destroyed a pair of mountain with pillage...

This is a good card, but you trade 2 for 2 at the best, and you have to remove a threat (bolt, creature). I have it in side for many times, i now pay pillage and it improve so many match than pyrokinesis...

Now i understand because Ric_Flair started another thread, with you there are no discussion. You talk with your friends and said "oh, you are right, how are you good..." and when another try to say something, even wrong, you became arrogant and don't give right motivation.

Supposing you build is Cadet for Slith, my question is simple: how do you side for the mirror ?
The answer is: nothing !
You have 8 card at least that are dead in the mirror match (pup, Ankh) and 4 awful (pop).

For this purpose and for make the deck stronger in a field of Control (keeper, landstill, hulk, t$4k, tnt) / Combo (dragon, tps) / Scrubby Sligh ( ), i have made this list:

4 goblin vandal
4 goblin cadets
4 mogg fanatic ( i prefer it to mancers )
4 shaman
12 bolts
4 ankh
4 price
1 Vise
1 Fork
1 mox
1 strip
4 wastelands
16 mountains

SB:

4 pyrostatic pillar / scald (metagame choice)
4 pillage (this is in side because vandal is in the deck, you know why?)
3 crash / Null Rod (metagame choice)
4 tormod's crypt

Pillage is a strong card for the mirror and is a strong card in the TnT / Workshop match because you have Vandal for first turn hate.
Crash if you aspect a field of workshop / Null rod for combo. I don't want rack and ruin because i have already pillage that costs 3.
Pup is good, don't trust me, but in the current metagame you don't have the space to play 8 of it. You have to choose, and Cadet is stronger (how many times have you attacked with a pup with a blocker in the other side ? only few times, not in this metagame ).

Psionic Blast is nice, but bouncer/drake is nasty against aggro with the exception on sligh (that is heavily hated in side).
Bouncer is good against Dragon too, so you don't need Stifle maindeck (that is strictly superior obviously, but less versatile).

I have found an interesting list about mono blue "fish" on www.magic-league.com
This deck have made a pair of final in t1 online tournament:

//NAME: Sheepstealer Fish
SB: 1 Waterfront Bouncer
SB: 3 Energy Flux
SB: 4 Suq'Ata Firewalker
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 3 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 Maze of Ith

3 Null Rod
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
2 Misdirection
4 Curiosity
4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Rootwater Thief
3 Waterfront Bouncer
3 Gilded Drake
4 Flying Men
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Strip Mine
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Faerie Conclave
4 Wasteland
9 Island

I playtested this list a bit and found very good. For me Suq'ata Firewalker is a sideboard card, it is not so strong to maindeck.
Waterfront is an interesting idea to work, can solve the problem of aggro match for fish (in combination with drake)

I agree with you, but i love the archetype and i hope to break it with this thread. Hey, but Ankh Sligh beat Gay/r or Fish  .



Someone did it and created Slax (i am repeating). Replace FTK with Juggernaut, add acceleration and you have it.
The problem is that Slax has the same weakness of Ankh Sligh: it does bad against modern aggro decks (even Ankh Sligh   ). But it eat alive Combo and Control (only the powered build).

I think we cannot maindeck it without change the core of the deck. So after tweaking for a while we have Slax.
Pyrostatic for me is relegated to side.

I have tested Pillage in past, but it seemed too slow. The problem for me is not the RR but the casting cost of 3. Destroy a land or artifact is not a big play, because on turn 3 you want eot play burn and turn 4 burn more to death !
At least in this build...
If Ankh Sligh can't deal with aggro and can beat only control with good percentage (combo is a nightmare) , the conclusion is that it is not a viable deck   .

I am trying to change Misdirection for Cunning Wish in the the main.
Than i run in side Hibernation and some good stuff for Wish target.
Could be an idea  

For everyone: i have read the previous post from the beginning.

Now for the decklist:

4   Gorilla Shaman
4   Goblin Cadet
4   Jackal Pup
4              Grim Lavamancer
4   Chain Lightning
4   Lightning Bolt
4   Incinerate
4   Price of Progress
1   Fork
4   Ankh of Mishra
1   Black Vise
1   Lotus Petal (Mox Ruby if you have it)
4   Wasteland
1   Strip mine
16   Mountain
   Sideboad:
4   Pyrostatic Pillar
3   Crash
1   Shattering Pulse
3   Null Rod
4   Tormod's Crypt

I have cut Cursed and Fireblast to make room for Grim Lavamancer.

I play Crash for Rack and Ruin because i can cast it turn 1 or 2, so if i am in a Sphere Lock i can break it. Plus can be sided against the mirror match (opposing Scroll) or against Nether Void / Black Control (with Chalice / Masticore / Powder Keg ).

Tormod's Crypt is so useful in today meta, i can't think play without it.

4 Price of Progress for me is a must, you don't  want lose to Keeper with Ankh Sligh, and going with Fireblast instead PoP and Black Vise is a bit random for me.

I miss Scald in side, that i think is a great card, because i think control match is already fine for this build. I can swap Incinerate for Pillar and i get the same result with Scald (almost).

The problem with Ankh Sligh nowdays is aggro. We are so focused to beat Dragon and Control (Hulk, Keeper, UR phidian, LandStill, ecc...) that we start lose to new rising aggro decks (Madness, Osawa Stompy, even RG Beatz is a hard match with Call of The Herd, Hidden Gibbon, Troll Ascetic, Cursed Scroll, ecc...)

I would discuss about winning against aggro. How it is your solution ?

Hi, i am new to this forum, but i have some questions about the list posted by Androstalone:

Why Grim Lavamancer is better than Cursed Scroll ?
Why 3 Fireblast and only 14 mountains ?
Why give opposing Wasteland 2 targets (mishra's factory) ?
Why Shattering Pulse over Tormod's Crypt ?

I really like Androstalone list, for me is near optimal, but i dislike some choice.

My list is
-1 Fireblast
+1 Price of Progress
-4 Lavamancer
+ 3 Cursed Scroll
+ 1 Black Vise
-2 Mishra
+2 Mountain
-1 Mox
+ 1 Fork

I don't like the sinergy beetween Fireblast and Ankh, but i don't found anything better (i tested Mishra but i don't like it)
Grim Lavamancer is a good idea, but Cursed is colorless damage, more difficult to destroy, and sometimes win games lonely. Grim can be played turn 1 and do more damage early in the game, need to be tested.
Another question, how do you win against a deck like Big O ?
For me the game is unwinnable.