I've tried the deck afew times at my local gaming store, and came up with this build:

4 Forest     
3 Gaea's Cradle               
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald
1 Sol Ring   
4 Elvish Spirit Guide   

3 Elves of Deep Shadow
2 Fyndhorn Elves   
3 Wirewood Symbiote   
4 Priest of Titania   
2 Llanowar Elves   
4 Wirewood Herald   
4 Birchlore Rangers   
1 Viridian Zealot   
3 Wirewood Hivemaster   
1 Gaea's Herald 

2 Diabolic Intent   
4 Skullclamp   
1 Crop Rotation   
1 Tendrils of Agony   
1 Living Wish     
1 Fastbond   
4 Concordant Crossroads   
3 Land Grant
1 Yawgmoth's Will 
2 Choke

Sideboard:     
Gaea's Cradle     
Caller of the Claw   
Viridian Zealot
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa   
Sylvan Messenger   
Gaea's Herald   
Wellwisher   
Strip Mine     
Orzhov Pontiff   
Timberwatch Elf   
Elvish Champion
3 Tormod's Crypt   
Eladamri, Lord of Leaves 


The 2 Chokes and single Gaea's Herald have been good vs Control/Gifts matchups. I often clamped Wirewood Herald for Gaea's Herald against control decks as this ensures all my future elves enter play successfully.

The Yawgmoth Will did win me afew games, after my components were countered/destroyed. I resolved Will and replayed everything.

Cards like Quirion Ranger, Boreal Druids and Seeker of Skybreaks are being considered, since they do help untap the Priest and/or ensure Turn 2 Priests. I'll probably try to get fit in Quirion Rangers...

I was thinking of adding Staff of Domination, but it seemed really mana intensive, and would only work well if I had Priest out, though it would make this deck more versatile... What do you boys think?

Ohh..Where's Marc Perez when I need his help? 

Decklist rearranged for clarity.
-Godder

Hiya! I've been testing this deck out on MWS recently. Its not really consistant, but seems to have potential. The basic idea is to get an engine going, get insane mana and Tendrils for the kill. It relies heavily on Concordant Crossroads. There's quite afew ways to win with this deck. Heres the decklist:
         
6 Forest      
3 Gaea's Cradle      
2 Wirewood Lodge            
1 Caller of the Claw   
1 Viridian Zealot   
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa   
1 Sylvan Messenger   
3 Wirewood Hivemaster   
1 Gaea's Herald   
1 Fyndhorn Elves   
3 Wirewood Symbiote   
1 Argothian Elder   
4 Priest of Titania   
2 Llanowar Elves   
4 Wirewood Herald   
4 Elvish Spirit Guide   
4 Birchlore Rangers   
1 Wellwisher   
1 Diabolic Intent   
4 Skullclamp   
1 Crop Rotation   
1 Tendrils of Agony   
1 Living Wish   
1 Cloudstone Curio   
1 Black Lotus
1 Mox Emerald   
1 Fastbond   
4 Concordant Crossroads   
1 Gaea's Blessing   
   
      
Gaea's Cradle      
Caller of the Claw   
Viridian Zealot
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa   
Sylvan Messenger   
Gaea's Herald   
Wellwisher   
Strip Mine      
Orzhov Pontiff   
Timberwatch Elf   
Elvish Champion
3 Tormod's Crypt   
Eladamri, Lord of Leaves   

There's 2 routes you can take for infinate mana:

Curio + Xroads + 2 Priests + Any random Elf = Infinite Mana
Gaea's Cradle + Wirewood Lodge + Argothian Elder = Infinite Mana

Or you can just go for the kill with Kamahl, Tendrils and Insect/Elf Beatdown.

Current problems include inconsistency (Needs Skullclamp in play bad) and bad matchups. It also lacks card draw. I thought about Glimpse of Nature, but it seems kinda wierd. Do any of you have any suggestions?

 Creatures
4 Meddling Mage
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Werebear
4 Ninja of the Deep Hours

- Counter/Disruption
3 Null Rod
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
3 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares

- Utility/Draw
1 Regrowth
4 Brainstorm
1 Gush

- Mana
1 Mox Emerald
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
4 Tundra
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Strip Mine
4 Wasteland


Sideboard:
3 Ray of Revelation
4 Hydroblast
2 Oxidize
3 True Believer
3 Serenity


The Ninjas are too slow. They're a tempo disadvantage, and dont really do well in an Aggro matchup. It also does nothing besides drawing cards, and has no other synergy with the rest of your deck.

The Misdirections are a must in my opinion. It is a free counterspell that helps you forc ein turn 2 Mages and Rods. It's also godly when targetting their Ancestrals.

Regrowth is good. Keep it.

Orim's Chant is a must. It stops Yawgmoth's Win, burns up Drain mana, enables you to play 5 time walks in your deck and ensures your Forces gets uncountered.

I wouldn't play any basic lands as this deck tends to require alot of colored mana to be effecient If you're afraid of non-basic hate, just mulligan till you get stable mana bases, or play more cantrips. Serum visions is good in this deck.

Sideboard wise, Energy Flux > Serenity.

You don't really need True Believer, as this deck has mainboard hate for combo decks.

Try this?

4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Chromatic Sphere
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy

1 Demonic tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
2 Spoils of the Vault
2 Spoils of the Vault
4 Infernal Contract
1 Echoeing Decay
1 Dark Blast

1 Necropotence
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Yawgmoth's Will

2 Tendril's of Agony

1 Chrome Mox
1 Mox Diamond
1 Jack-in-the-Mox
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Polluted Delta
12 Swamps

But against Tinker + Collosus, all you need to do is name Tinker via Meddling Mage, keep a Swords to Plowshares in hand, or just make sure they don't have any moxen in play. Or you could simply counter it. I don't think Collosus warrents the slots Extract uses in the deck.

I've tried Orim's Chant, and it doesn't seem to work very well because its extremely conditional.

Stax is a pretty bad matchup against Birdshit...if they get a good opening hand. But Birdshit has answers to threats Stax has, so if you can just deny their key components, I think Stax will be one of the easiest matchups you can have (Since they don't have countermagix anyway).

Has anyone considered playing Kataki main instead of Null Rod? It doesn't nullify the mana production of moxen the turn after they come into play, since moxen produce 1 mana, and they need to pay 1 mana for upkeep. And its a beat stick too.

Pros and Cons over Null Rod & Kataki:

1) Null Rod stops ALL artifacts. Kataki only makes them pay upkeeps. However, moxen are the primary concern as people seldom use non-moxen-artifact with activated abilities now. Thus, their use is to primary stop moxen. Kataki lets them use the moxen for 1 turn (the turn they play it) before the upkeep costs hit next turn. Null Rod stops them outright.

2) Kataki is a 21 Beatstick. Null Rod isn't. Null Rod is a dead card agaisnt some decks. Kataki is never a head card being a 2/1 creature.

3) Kataki is cool. Null Rod does nothing... And is more expensive. 


Instead of 3 Null Rods main, would 2 Kataki and 1 Null Rod be better instead?

Why Extract? It've tested it already and it doens't seem to have that much of an impact. Most of the time, you need around 2 to hinder your opponent, and drawing it isn't that easy in this deck. Furthermore, you need 3 of these for it to be really effective, and the deck doesn't really have alot of empty slots.

I thought Birdshit is a Aggro/Prison/Control deck. Extract doesn't really seem to suit the deck. Also, Meddling Mage does roughly the same thing. In my opinion, Meddling Mage is far superior at denying cards than Extract.

Also, is Orim's Chant really that good? It's only useful in certain situations. Anyway, you're not supposed to let your opponent Mana Drain your spells away in the first place right? Cause that'll shift the tempo in their favor already..

Mental Note causes the deck to adapt more of a 'top deck' kinda play style. It causes you to lose certain key cards like Daze and Null Rod.

Is this deck really Aggro/Prison? I always thought it was Aggro/Control since there are so many control elements. Is it Aggro/Prison cause of the Meddling Mages and Mana Denial? I understand that soft lock here, but won't this deck be more successful as an Aggro/Control archtype due to its many controlish spells? The mana denial can be used as a support to this play tactic...

Umezawa's Jitte isn't really good as it clashes with Null Rod. Also, you need to spend mana to equip it, mana which is very important in the early few turns of the game. Your creatures are big after Threshold, and thus, Jitte isn't really effective. Using Jitte as a creature skill isn't effective either as you're a) Playing Swords to Plowshares b) Your creatures are big enough to do "2 for 1" or "3 for 1" trade offs. Also, you cna't equip on Nimble Mongoose.

Null Rod is clearly a key component in this deck. It helps enforces the mana denial aspect by restricting the usage of artifact mana eg: Moxes. This helps stops them from going broken and severely weaken's Yawgmoth's Win's power.

Actually, I think that this deck is pretty good if you're running Black Lotus and Ancestral Recall. Also, the mana base is only shakey if you make it so.

I don't think cloud of faeries should be cut. this card allows a quick creature to be cast before standstill...and can be cycled under it. I would think that cards like waterfront bouncer belong to the sideboard.

my first scrubby deck was like Red wood treefolk, borgarden phoenix, grizzly bear, disintergrate and stuff like those...it was just a 80+ card R/G deck...

My first decent deck was is a B/W deck abusing Pestilence and White Knight/ Order of the White Shield/ Knight of Dawn... it was pretty dumb..but it worked well back then. I even put in afew Serra Angels when I could afford them lol... Spirit Link was used too i think...

I would say that Fish is still a pretty good deck to play and that it will always be good. It has forced decks to change certain components to suit the fish enviroment. As long as Fish evolves, it'll be up tp date with the other decks

wow..that's mean.

u're siding out around 4-5 cards..and u're siding in like 6-9 cards...wat u gonna take out? i'll juz side in like 3 fire/ice and 2-3 Beb

u're siding out around 4-5 cards..and u're siding in like 6-9 cards...wat u gonna take out?

Mainboard Annul is critical against 1st turn Trinisphere etc etc...

B2B doesn't really post much of a threat to me. Most of the time I let it resolve, unless I have a ton of manlands in play. The main thing is Powder Keg. I often try to resolve a Null Rod.

Well...But if you would to run 2 Red Fetches, 1 Mountain, 2 Islands and 3 Blue Fetches, won't you be kinda er...screwed if you need to search for an Island and you happen to draw a red fetch?

I would say that against Mono-Blue, Red isn't really an important color in this deck, as the only useful card being 1X Gorilla Shaman. Thus, i would think that you'll be fetching Islands more than Mountains...also partly due to the fact that there are more blue cards than red in this deck. Cards like Voidmage need double blue, unless you plan on morphing it. Lavamancer just doesn't cut it vs U/U control.

Its only post SB that red is useful. However, Fish should be able to handle U/U even without SB if played correctly. Their only form of removal is Powder Keg...and a resolved Null Rod will stop it.

Just my 2 cents...

Well...I've given you my opinions. Should you heed them I don't really care. Wish my darling would be here to help you out.

Anyways......



I think that REB isn't very strong in mirror. Yes, you get to counter their FoW and kill their permaments. But note that all of Fish's red sources are from non-basic lands. And they're only running 4. Like I've said, the aim when there's a Fish on Fish mirror is to cut off your opponent's red sources and/or make sure their Lavamancer dun stay active for too long. Most of the time, the person with the active Lavamancer wins. Thus, cards like Stifle and Fire/Ice are important. Stifle is good because you can Stifle your opponent's Lavamancer ability and burn it with your own on your turn. Fire/Ice is good also because you can Ice it. Tapping it ensures that you can safely cast your own 'Mancer and kill it without him burning yours away. I know you can Fire it away, but like I said, in the Fish mirror, you won't get alot of red sources...

The reason BEB is better over REB is that this deck runs basic Islands. It doesn't run basic mountains. BEB can kill Lavamancer and counter Fire. Both of these cards are game breaking in the Fish mirror. Where as REB can only counter/kill the usual blue creatures and FoW. The only good things it can get rid off are Curiosity and FoW. But note that Curiosity is easily gotten rid with a Lavamancer in play or Fired. As for Force, the deck is only running 4 FoWs.

So in my opinion, Lavamancer and Fire/Ice are keycards, and thus BEB is more powerful than REB in the mirror.

1) I won't use Brainstorm. Mainly because it meant to improve card quality, not quantity. Fish's cards arn't very game breaking.

2) I would definately increase the number of Standstills to 4. They're like Ancestrals + Timewalks.

3) I won't play Fire/ice. Either that, or i'll cut down on that because judging from what you described in your 'match' post, there arn't many Aggro decks in your meta.

4) Crucible + Strip Effects are good. But the combo seldom comes out. Crucible is seldom casted, and when you can, there are often better things to do. It is easily countered with an opposing Crucible, and can be easily removed. Also, most of the other decks can abuse Crucible to a much creater extent than Fish...And on top of tat, it doesn't work well with Lavamancer. Thus I do not think that Crucible warrents a slot on Fish.

5) You shouldn't cut down on Factories. You're reducing the effectiveness of Standstill and they're good against most aggro decks. Period.

6) P9 are like so powerful. Time Walk being the best in this deck. Time Walk gives you so much tempo.  

7) You say that the mana base is weak and that you're always being locked down by Wastelands. I would say its mostly player skill and playing style. Why keep a hand with 2 Volcanic Islands when opponent is playing Wastelands? Or why 'fetch' for a non-basic? Manabase is far more important than that 1st turn Lavamancer.

8) Misdirection is good. Having 1 copy keeps your opponent guessing. Removing it totally means he can cast that Mind Twist without any worries.

9) Most of the time, you won't be able to cast Energy Flux. Its too slow for Fish.
10) I won't play Maze of Ith cause of the amount of Wastelands in your meta. Bouncer helps in feeding your graveyard for Lavamancer too.

11) You're losing to Workshop and Dragons alot. The 2 Annuls should help. Stifle main is good against them too.

*Note: Don't SB in the REB against mirror. The main goal is to rid your opponent of red sources and Lavamancer. REB will be hard to cast. Ridding them will stop their Lavamancers and Fire/Ice. They'll be trying to do the same to you.

Personally, I would improve your deck this way...


DECK LIST - SUPERMAN GAY RED  

Counter effects:

4 Force of will
3 Daze

Draw engine:

4 Curiosity
4 Standstill
1 Ancestral Recall

Creatures:

4 Cloud of Faeries
4 Spiketail Hatchling
4 Grim lavamancer
1 Gorilla shaman

Utilities:

1 Time Walk
3 Stifle
2 Fire/ice

Artifacts:

3 Null rod

Lands:

5 Polluted delta
4 Volcanic island
3 Island
4 Factory
4 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Library of Alexandria

SIDE:

3 REB
2 BEB
2 Echoing Truth
3 Waterfront Bouncer
3 Rack'n'Ruin
2 Annul

Sorry for double post.

Hiya...I would think that Dryads should be included in the deck. This is because Tropical Fish has many low casting cost spells that can boost the Dryad's P/T rapidly. Also the disruption caused by the deck will hinder the opponent's ability to successfully remove the Dryad as a threat. The Dryad also packs a much needed punch which sometimes Fish decks need to force their way through to win the game.

However, Boas, undoubtly are more 'powerful' than the Dryad due to their Island-Walk and the ability to regenerate.  

I would say that we should use Boas as a primary creature and afew Dryads as a 'support/back-up' plan.

Well..Brainstorms are not always worse than sylvan library as they are really good with fetchlands due to the fact that you'll get 3 new cards. Unlike the library where you'll draw mostly the same cards all over again.

The library costs 2 mana, where brainstorm only cost 1.

Also, brainstorm is an instant, which is quite important. As an added bonus, it's blue, which allows you to pump your dryads.

Brainstorm can also be a mana fixer if you start with a hand that has little lands.

kekekekeee....

well...f that's the case..dun buy it then lol...

He'll have to stifle the madness trigger. He doesn't pay the cost.

Like I said, Fish is a tempo deck. That's why they are running daze, hatchlings and stuff. Stifle aids in tempo too. If you stifle their fetchlands, you gain a huge boost in tempo. Same goes for wastelands. Normally, you'll want to stifle a wasteland targetted on your manlands. And if you stifle their wasteland, you gain an upper hand in land count, though significantly less if u stifle their fetches.

Stifle is also good against alot of other decks. Like Keeper, Mask and the mirror. STifle is also a bomb against most combo decks

*Cough* Stifle *Cough* Thief *Cough*

SPiketail gives you tempo advantage. Fish is a tempo deck. Spiketail good for fish. Fish likes spiketails.

^_^'

if you use meddling mage, you're again splashing another color: White. This will bring us back to square 1.

Its too slow...Not really controlish enough. Mage is nice..but still...

The reason why we use mono-blue is cuz of the islands. We want to minimise the aount of non-basic lands in the deck, so the mana would be more stable. Splashing white is the same as splashing red. It makes the base more unstable.

Sacred ground isn't really tat practical. It costs 2 mana and isn't really useful.