The rules for the Old School tournament have been updated.  You can find them here:

http://newyorkoldschool.tumblr.com/

If you would like to add your two cents to what you'd like to see for prize support, please reach out to me to let me know.

I also am mindful of any problems with quoting, but use quotes in order to help readers know exactly what I am responding to.


This is my point: why?  What this New York format, or any other format, have to do with that exactly, other than being another expression of Old School?  You came out of the gates saying:

So, you hate formats that permit CE, etc.   In doing so, it reads as an attack on this New York variant that is the subject of this thread, as well as the Norcal and EC communites you also mentioned in your post.  Yet, my point, which I think you finally understand, is that you were ascribing the interests and goals of the Swedish group to all of these other communities, and then, in rather inflammatory language, condemning these other groups.  

Taking you at your word, that you were simply judging these other formats on what "The swedish group intended," you must have been assuming that all of these communities shared the Swedish group's goals.  But there is absolutely no reason to assume that.  That's simply unwarranted.  

Nor, I should add, is there any reason to assume that the quotes you've taken from Magnus' blog should be taken as the consensus views of the entire Swedish group.  They may not have been parsing their views that finely.  


Indeed.  In your opening post you began by saying "these formats." These formats include the 93/94 Swedish Group, but also include those that are not created by and for that group.  Therefore, by your own words, you were drawing conclusions and making judgements on behalf of a much broader class of formats.

You were condemning any Old School format that permits CE/IE.  And on fairly absurd terms, as well.

Consider: the fact that you place so much importance on the "struggle" compared to the many other magnificent benefits/goals that I listed in my previous post that flow from Old school Magic is, imo, strange, to say the least.  It's like enjoying Opera primarily for the choreography or scenery rather than the music or performances. It's not impossible to comprehend; it just misses the point.  


I think you are confused on the difference between an opinion and an argument/assertion.  This is Logic 101 (literally - as in, it would be taught in any introductory logic course.)  

An argument or assertion is a claim.  Claims, under the rules of logic, are subject to dispute and require support.  Support can be offered in the form of either empirical evidence or reasoning (such as mathmatical or deductive reasoning).  Opinions ("I like Ice Cream") do not require support for validity. Claims/arguments do.  

(I should add that adding "I think" or "I feel" to a statement does not render a claim a mere opinion.  Whether a statement is a claim or an opinion is determined by it's substance, not it's framing).

You said:


This is a claim.  In order for the claim to be true, then the premises must also be true, and the conclusion must flow from the premises.  My main point in this thread, in responding to you, has been to demonstrate a flaw in the premise, that the formats share the same goal.  They don't.  Therefore, I am contesting your claim.  


It's because your argument was both based upon a mistaken (erroneous) premise, as well as the inflammatory tone of your post (the use of words like "bastardization," "lying to themselves," etc.).

This upkeep effect is besides your draw, right? I mean, you are drawing the next card anyway, opponent can pay life to put this card in your graveyard or just go to your hand. If it's a land I think the decision is pretty clear, but if you already paid for this creature, you are not supposed to have troubles with mana.

Of course the effect is better if you can manipulate your topdecks, otherwise is too much lottery. At worst it does nothing but increase your graveyard, at best it puts a card in your hand (not drawing them). I'm not saying this is vintage playable, but your opponent can control the extra effect, that can be manipulated (mystical or vampiric into DTT is a nice trick)

Same cost, browbeat does more the same turn it's played, but on the long run Prodder seems better. But i don't find them really comparable.

Puts too much control in your opponents hands.  If  you are mana screwed any mana will go to your graveyard free of charge. If you are good on mana or even have too much, any mana goes to your hand.  It does help burn thru your deck.  But if your opponent has say a mentor on the board is he going to take 1 to the face to make you lose lightning bolt or you let you have bolt?   For that matter even if his board is empty he'll take the 1 to the face to get rid of lightning bolt.

He's a 3/2 for 3 that puts your card pool into your opponents hands.

Awful. Just play Browbeat.

Sin Prodder     2 R
Creature - Devil
Menace
At the beginning of your upkeep, reveal the top card of your library. Any opponent may have you put that card into your graveyard. If a player does, Sin Prodder deals damage to that player equal to that card's converted mana cost. Otherwise, put that card into your hand.
3/2


At first I read that opponent could skip my drawing, but the second time I read it again and I'm pretty impressed. Providing you can filter your draws (preordain, ponder, brainstorm, jace, top... even delver) this card reads: each turn draw a card or throw a bolt to opponent's face, when bolt could easily be 5 if you reveal fow or gush (not to speak dtt or love boat). Besides it's a 3/2 with menace, which means that it trades with golem and it's not easy to block.

Playable? Comparison with mentor is not positive, but most creatures are worse than mentor and however some fit into winning decks. Against prison I'd prefer this, same if I'm hellbent. Also against oath, since this is unblockable and can win life race (if that is possible against a griselbrand). It also allows staying on 2 colors.

Now that's a prize I'd be willing to fight for.

@Katzby - Sorry that you feel like that about the new fun variation of the format we've created here in the US.  I totally get why you consider it a bastardization of the European format, but what's the point of a format (or even a game, for that matter) to exist if no one can access cards to play? 

While I completely respect and appreciate what the Swedes have done for the promotion of Old School formats, US formats reveal an evolution of Old School.  Locally at tournaments between rounds, we promote the fun and intrigue it brings to those actively playing it and even bystanders curious to see these older relics being cast and played.  The Swedes may have their hardcore format, but years down the line, I guarantee you that they will grow tired of the same card pool and stagnant player base.  Even US Old School is at risk of this, considering most players want to play, but the supply of the older cards (even through FBB, FE & Chronicles) is continually shrinking.  The whole point of New York Old School Magic is to help generate future and further appreciation of the older sets. 

Lastly, just because you hate this format, it does not suddenly empower you tear it down.  For example, while I may not like Modern, I do not go out of my way to knock it.

@Smmenen - I've added that link to NorCal Old School in the Links sidebar of the site.  Thank you for letting me know the correct link to use.

@fsecco - The Armageddon Clock Overtime rule was put in place so we could potentially have a more finite resolution to ongoing long matches.  You make a pretty solid point about Mirror Universe and its power to make things tricky toward the end.  If that particular situation arises in overtime, I would consider that a success.

Thank you titus!

I were on budget for years, but after getting the P9 it's hard to leave it at home 
While it's not my first top8, I have always lost my first game everytime so this is a milestone for me

About reaching 50 again, it will tough Average age of the attendants grow year after year, people is having children and when one person fails, often their mates fail too, and it's hard to recover them. While saving 1 Saturday every month does not seem massive, it could be hard for some people with family's responsibilities. At least we have bounced from 30 people, let's try to stay over 40 all the season