Who Was Your Hull?

[Kowal]

None of us can claim to have just been great type one players upon entering the format.

When you first started, who did you barn on to get better?

For me, I filed away pretty much everything that Hulk3rules and Grand Inquisitor had said for a year or so in the back of my mind for further review later.  Less barning, but just as much if not more learning came from two great friends, wicketsnatcher and ill_dawg.  The dawg is whom I credit most of my skill playing control to, not because he was a fantastic mana drain player, because he wasn't, but because I had to test UrPhid against hyperaggressive 4 LED madness all the freakin time so I really learned how to analyze what threats are the ones most difficult to deal with.

EDIT:  This really couldn't be complete unless I gave an honorable mention to the BrassMan, who though I wouldn't consider my hull, has definitely taught me almost everything in terms of mastering control outside of the Ophidian based decks.

[jpmeyer]

Azhrei said that he was once my hull.

[Outlaw]

I was a barn of TrixR4Kidz and Sextiger (well we were all very terrible, we just learned from eachother).  I was fairly self taught then I became great friends with Purplehat,  Kowal and Brassman, and I learned quite a bit.  I always randomly pick up tips from people.  Not one true barn.

[Matt]

PsychoCid.

[kl0wn]

Hmmmm...

I started doing this so long ago that I don't remember who I took after. It might have been a mixture of Azhrei and K-run back on BD, but I'm not completely sure.

I know for a fact that I did barn one Rich Shay when I started playing Magic again right before the last Waterbury, if you could call me asking him for sideboarding and matchup advice that.

Would my real hull please step forward?

[Komatteru]

Last year (exactly one year ago as of 6/14), I started playing Magic again after nearly a two year break.  I found myself in the middle of a very competitive metagame that was fully powered and featured talented players such as Mark Biller (Windfall, if you remember), Ben Perry (everythingitouchdies), and Brian Demars (forcefieldyou).  Needless to say, I didn't do very well for quite some time (there's more of this story over here), and no one there was interested in teaming up and sharing tech and deck ideas, something that I really wanted after reading about all these teams on TMD.  Mark and Ben formed a "team" called "Team Gone Fishin'" but it was mostly just a series of collaborations between the two (the biggest result of which was Ben's suggestion to include Mystical Tutor in Slaver), and Mark quickly forgot Ben's contributions after he won at Gencon (so that ended).  I had gotten Ben's email before I left and emailed him about some random stuff.  We conversed about Magic in more detail and exchanged ideas.  After I said I wanted to play Draw7 (I saw Mark play it earlier in the summer and it looked like a total blast), he introduced me to DeathLong, which he thought was overall stronger and less prone to randomly crapping out.  What transpired out of that was a series of conversations (many long emails) of shared ideas and test results, and what we thought was a perfected decklist.  I continued to improve all this time, and never gave up on that deck (despite it being weak in the Trinisphere-heavy Midwest).  I learned so many tricks and formed a lot of my general perspectives on the game through talk with Ben.  I owe him all my success.  When no one else wanted to bother talking to a struggling player returning to a very different game after a long absence, Ben did, and for that, I can't express my appreciation enough.

I also gained a lot just through reading articles and thoughts and such on TMD here.  My growth in the community strengthened me as a player a lot, but I'd still be a total schmuck if it weren't for Ben.

[everythingitouchdies]

Well damn, this is pretty flattering. I dont think anyone has referred to me as their hull before. I am glad to have had such an impact.

[Bram]

I have chosen a different route. I chose not to get better.

Ofcourse, certain decent plays are inevitable at times, and any amount of the skill I inadvertently picked up along the way is likely due to rvs and pyromaniac.

[rvs]

Pyromaniac.

[The Atog Lord]

I've never had a Type One hull. Part of this is a result of starting in Unlimited, back before anyone I knew was actually all that good. However, that is not to say that I have not been a barn. Both times that I  have been qualified for Nationals, I barned a better limited player than myself. While I'm not awful at drafting, I realize that I'm nothing especially amazing in that format. The first time I was qualified for nationals, the draft format was Invasion Block. I'd draft a lot with a man named Jason Miller, who also went to Brown. He'd explain to me pick orders, told me about why sometimes you'd take a weaker card for better synergy, and taught me the concept of splashing a color. In short, while I had drafted before meeting Jason, he made me a hell of a lot better. While I've sadly lost touch with him -- Jason, if you're reading this, know that your work is appreciated.

After that, I was qualified for last year's nationals with Mirrodin Block. And while I wasn't awful at Mirrodin, sometimes I'd just end up with a pile of eight drops and some Ur-Golem's Eyes. So, I barned Brian Lynch. He's a pro that's been to many tours himself, and quite likely the best  drafter around. I'd make every effort to draft with Brian whenever possible, and to ask him about his Mirrodin picks and general advice about the format. I took Brian's advice, and did as he said at Nationals. I ended up 6-1 in the draft portion, something I couldn't have done without Brian's help. Thanks, Brian.

[Meddling Mike]

I started playing magic at a crappy local store that has since closed it's doors. Luckily for me, two solid magic players in The Atog Lord and Demonic Attorney were regulars at this store and I was able to pick up competitive magic with some of their assitance. I mostly stuck to limited and non-Vintage formats until approximately two years ago. In an interesting turn of events I met Samite Healer who lived only a building or two away from my dormitory and attended Boston College as well. He had recently finished up playing at Pro Tour Boston and was looking to return to vintage. With his ability to loan me the necessary cards  for Vintage and the new standard of 5 proxies I decided to start playing vintage and quickly grew fond of the format. With the format's popularity growing in leaps and bounds it was not long before Chris and Rich also started to focus the bulk of their efforts on Vintage. A few months back I was invited to join team reflection and I think I've learned quite a bit and tightened my game considerably thanks to their help as quality players to playtest against and bounce ideas off.

[kirdape3]

JP Meyer mostly.  For other formats, I barn Tom Lapille (Deranged Parrot).

[Clown of Tresserhorn]

Lord of the Goats, Fishhead, Zhalfirin, JPMeyer, Kevin Cron. Though I've met only JP and Kevin, I tend to pay more attention to these peoples' posts. If anyone remembers TnT was my favorite deck. In the times it was popular, LoTG and Fishhead  did more innovation for the deck than anyone I can remember. Reading their posts were truly enlightening and taught me many important concepts in type 1.

Also, I hate to admit this, but I truly looked up to Oscar Tan (I still somewhat do).

-Bob

[waSP]

When I sucked, Brian Cox (didn't suck) and made fun of me a lot.  But he didn't really teach me anything about the game except by being a good monoblue player.  Trying to beat him made me teach myself how to build decks.  Also, I intuitively picked up what tempo was (after a while).  I think getting your ass kicked by control for long enough will teach you how to play (maybe why there are a lot of good players in the NE).  I've borrowed cards from people, but that was usually a barter.  That said, I'm awful now that the metagame has moved on and I don't play.

[Saucemaster]

Fishhead, Zhalfirin

Can I get an "Amen"?

[Klep]

Kowal

[LotusHead]

Honestly? There was some guy named Kamikaze Kelly who lurked around Sacramento (I lived like 45 miles away) but discovered that different geological locations meant (in Magic terms) different kinds of players and different values of cards (the time of Legends...heh.)  and more importantly, a deck full of Dual Lands and no creatures ('94 stuff).

My fun decks were no match for his powered Reverse Damage/Fork/Disintegrate/Blue for Broken/Green for Regrowth only Deck, but some other punk ass kid I introduced to the area had a UR Shivan Dragon Powered Control Deck (with Jaymdaes Tome) that walked all over Sacramento decks to the point where Kamikazi said "Where's that kid from???". He showed up in my hometown to get revenge. And thus a meta was born.

(All this stuff is pre-internet/global comunity stuff, but the topic was about Hulls...)

Anyways, I have always strived to be creative with my decks as a form of personal expression (Salvagers recurring Black Lotuses? Sign me UP! I LOVE Black Lotuses!), but we all came from somewhere, and there was always "That guy you need to beat".

Kamikazi was always that guy I had to beat, and it was a struggle.  Though T1 is WAY different now, 10 years later, I always have, in the back of my mind, "How do I get more broken than Kamikazi Kelly, even though I have far fewer resources?"

Oh, and my buddy Mike Strong was the victim of all my crazy decks for years and learned to adapt to deal with it.  So Mike Strong helped me learn to deal with the people who learn to deal with your stupid ass crazy combo control agrro broken decks.  Thanks Mike.

Sniff.


For those that know me, I have Kamikazi's WAY BEAT UP Mox Emerald that someone bought from him and traded to someone else and eventually was given to me as a gift (helping someone aquire 40 dual lands by trade, even in 94, earns some perks). This mox was so beat up (even in 94/05 pre-sleave Magic), that I knew who's Mox it was....

[Godot]

I've never had a real life hull so I've gleaned what little I know from reading a shit ton of stuff.  When I initially started back in the early/mid 90s I barned off the knowlege in the early Duelist issues and a George Baxter book since I never lived anywhere a particularly strong magic community or had the internet.  When I got back into the game around Onslaught I used Oscar Tans articles to brush up on the basic theories and catch up on all the tech I'd missed since Weatherlight.  Once I started reading TMD I pretty much dissected every post by JP, Zhalfirin, Smmenen and Fishhead(especially his tourney reports).

[kl0wn]

I've never had a real life hull so I've gleaned what little I know from reading a shit ton of stuff.  When I initially started back in the early/mid 90s I barned off the knowlege in the early Duelist issues and a George Baxter book since I never lived anywhere a particularly strong magic community or had the internet.

Oh man...

I remember that very George Baxter book with his "block" and "pocket" deckbuilding technique. Good lord...how irrelevent to Type 1...

[Shock Wave]

Lam Phan and Peter Olszewski.

I so remember that Baxter pocket system too. I used to think that was the hottest deckbuilding technique ever.

[Bram]

Coudl someone elaborate on that system? It sounds wicked cool.

[BigMac]

When i started playing in 1993 we were the first few in Holland that actually were playing. We would come together at the house of the guy that had the rights in Holland just to play, buy and trade. My complete collection could be transported in a little foodbox.

I learned how to play when we had a 20+ group playing for first spot like every day during the week. So i can say i learned it from practice itself. I have seen more rules change than most know rules. I was there when the first restrictions were implemented. The first of our group to stop playing sold their cards as they suspected those prices to be the top for a card. (50 bucks for power at the time) The last of the original group remaining, but a few are comming back now. Settled down and all, they start playing again.

As for me, once a good tournament player, feared and respected, they now laugh at me when playing outside vintage. However, vintage is my terrain. After a short break (2 years for me while still collecting) Pyromaniac was the one (with a few friends) to pull me back in. After playing a few years of sucky creations of my own, not doing to bad at all they invented storm. At the time i was playing a wheel or deal deck (yes somebody made a deck with it and actually played it in a tournament) that was very easily turned into a tendrils deck which for me turned out to be my first TPS deck. I took it to the biggest tournament i had played in years (Dulmen) and came on top in the end winning it. I was sold as the game had my full attention again after that win. (the first of many, how lucky) While we test within our ISP group we hone our skills. I mostly test crappy decks and every once in a while something usefull turns up. When i play a tournament i may play a crap deck but mostly play well tested, well developed decks. Once a magic player, always a magic player i guess.

[kl0wn]

Coudl someone elaborate on that system? It sounds wicked cool.

Basically, you organized your deck by columns (blocks) and five 4-card subcolumns (pockets) which allowed you to analyze your decklist more efficiently and force it into the 60-card model. It was very useful for making decks ultra-concentrated, but fell flat on it's face when applied to Type 1. Unfortunately, I can't find any images of them.

[Smmenen]

When I first got into Vintage in my area back in 1996, I was the best Vintage player in my group and the one who independently came up with a blue white control deck that was very close to Weisman's deck.  I had 1 Moti and 2 Serras since I had straight blue and white unlike Weissman who had Green for Regrowth, Red for Rebs, and Black for Demonic Tutor (mind twist got banned). 

When I got back in, the person who really got me back in and the person I really focused on playing was my friend Tony Ripa.  He build a mono blue deck to beat my BBS deck.  Paul Mastriano taught me that Keeper could be beat - so that is pretty important.

I don't really have a "hull" in the traditional sense.

When I first started working seriously on the format like in 2001-2002 - I was pretty much an outcast in the community.  Azhrei, Oscar, Matt D'Avanzo made fun of me alot behind my back and I was basically almost banned from Bdominia.  Why?  Becuase I started bashing Keeper and the mentality of the place.  I also got into huge flame threads and JP called me the inadvertent flame starter. 

I was hated by the vintage community in the sense that Randomizer was.  People thought my ideas were terrible and I wasn't given any respect.  I proposed that people play decks with some non-traditional cards like mono blue with Prohibit (remember?) and the like. 

I'm trying to think who I took my cues from when it came to Vintage, but thinking back to the whole Bdominia scene, I was pretty much an outcast.  I strongly disagreed with Azhrei about how good Fact or Fiction was when it came out and about how Good Yawg Will.  Darrern's deck, the Franchise, had Gaea's Blessing and NO Yawg Will.  I thought he needed Yawg Will.  Also Darren said that Fact or Fiction was going to be a weak impulse. 

I kind of liked Acolytec and a guy named "SPizzard" and I got along with CF and a few others I'm sure I've forgotten, but I don't really think I learned how to play from any of them.   

ARG.  Why don't I have a hull!!!???  I did get to play against Pat Chapin and that was the moment I realized Gro Was awsome in the format. 

I just know that the Bdominia crowd was pretty insulting to me and I was pretty much an outcast despite strongly defending my views. 

I really wish that there was a particular player I really learned alot from in my formative years but I can't really point to someone in particular as the person that I learned to be a better player from or whatever.  Marc Perez taught me alot about psychology in magic - but I also employed alot of that instictively when I play.  I don't think there is anyone that "brought" me into Vintage. 

I don't feel like there was really ever a time that someone else was teaching me about Vintage...I always feel like I was on the forefront of the format...

[jpmeyer]

You have a hull, me.

[Smmenen]

I totally did hull some decks from JP: Really dark keeper and Tog are two among many more I'm sure.  But you didn't like teach me to play like kowal is describing.

[Dozer]

Online, I'd definitely say Azhrei (totally in contrast to Smmenen ). I learned a lot from his way of posting and his argumentations, and I learned the bascics of Vintage from him, even though I never "barned" him in the classical sense. Rakso had some input, too, and I devoured his articles until they went kind of sour. In real life, I learned most from Kim Kluck and Carsten Kötter -- funnily enough, I made Kim get into Vintage, and he has since surpassed me as a player. In a way, I could be called his mentoring barnacle.

Today, I have no hull... except for TMD, which I ardently cling to. TMD is just the biggest and most comfortable hull ever.

Dozer

[Dr. Sylvan]

Not playing actual games of Magic makes it difficult to have traditional hulls, but if there's people I adopted ideas from early on, it'd be Steve M, JP, Kowal, and PTW.


Edit: Also, even if you don't know it, Kowal is your hull. I keep waiting for him to stop toying with us all and just conquer the world with some Ninja Mask/Ophidian creation out of my worst nightmares. Just you wait. Someday, you'll realize you're Pinky, and he's the Brain.

[Methuselahn]

When Legends came out, I had just started and really didn't have anyone to learn from, save my younger brother.  He had gotten into the game and had alot of cards.  Being 9 years older, and in college, my pocketbook was bigger and my appreciation for strategy was stronger.  I quickly surpassed him and his friends.

I immediately got my college dorm roommate (freshmen at the time) into it and we barned off each other for the next 5 years.  We played alot.  He mostly barned off me, I think.  I had started reading The Duelist from issue #2 on, I bought all of Baxter's books, and read the Dojo, when it was active.  I continued playing up until MM, upon which I sold all my power and Drains so I could spend money on females.   Meanwhile, I was playing Type II, and in various booster box tournaments.  This was a great lesson back in the day.  Also, I think I hulled most, if any of my drafting skills to Chris Selnes, a MN local/native.   This was quite shortlived and really just during the Urza set.  :/

After coming back to Magic when Torment was released,  I researched what was happening in Type 1, joined a young Team Reflection and I consider myself to barn off my teammates to this day.

[Triple_S]

I definitely feel my WoW play was largely influenced by SliverKing and his brother...they were very instrumental in helping me hit level 60 at a far faster rate than I expected.