{DECK} Oath of druids - HELP looking for input

[Balamor]

Hey all, new to the forums, got this link to this site from MTGSalvation.
I am a Connecticut player looking to see how i can improve on this oath deck... heres my list so far (please note i do not play with proxies so theres no lotus or ARecall in this deck yet)

Lands:
4x Tropical island
3x City of Brass
1x island
4x Forbidden orchard
4x Yavimaya coat
1x strip mine
1x Library of alexandria

Artifacts:
1x Mox jet
1x Mox pearl
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox sapphire
1x Mox emerald
2x Darksteel colossus

Black:
Demonic tutor
Vampiric tutor

Green:
4x Oath of Druids
1x gaea's Blessing
1x regrowth
1x Crop rotation
2x Berserk

Blue:
3x Counter spell
4x Mana drain
4x Force of will
1x Time walk
4x Brainstorm
4x Accumulated knowledge
4x Intuition

total: 60 cards

Sideboard: none as of yet (no imput needed though i have a good idea of what it will consist of)

So heres the deal. I am making this because i want a deck that extirpate will not dismantle on a whim.
PLANNED CHANGES
I am going to replace 1x yav coast and the island with 2 underground sea's.
I am going to replace 1x city of brass with a polluted delta.

The deck works well and i get usualy get a Darksteel out on turn 2 and kill by T4.
I like the intutions not only for getting the oath/forbidden orchard, but i can also get 3 AK's or Time walk/berserk/berserk or regrowth/time walk/berserk (either way it nabs HUGE threats)
Most oath decks dont run colossus or berserk, i found it works very well for me. Sideboard although its not made yet will have the Akroma/Spirit of the night to swap for colossus in heavy artifact hate decks.
I do find myself lacking card draw though, and eventualy my counters do run out.
I need to make room for 1 echoing truth (replace with regrowth??)
I was also considering adding the scepter/orms combo but i think it takes too much away from the deck as a whole
I like merchant scroll, cannot fit it though
Tinker? i feel like this needs a spot too...
How about less green more black?? Extirpate, duress etc...

Any help would be great, am i missing something? Seems like this is not longer a viable vintage deck, but with extirpate coming soon i think ichorid/any deck with welders will struggle to compensate.

[someone_unimportan]

DSC has been replaced with the angel suite of Akroma (White one) and Razia, because it is one turn faster (assuming your opponent is at <=18, which is very likely). In addition, I'd cut the Berserks, since if you switch to the angels, it doesn't change the clock on Oath. I would cut some dual lands for some fetch lands as well, as you want to optimize your Brainstorms as much as possible. Also add some more basic lands to give you resilience to Wasteland. I haven't played Oath enough to know the exact manabase, but you could look at one of the Carp brothers' lists through the Starcity deck database for some ideas. Lastly I'd suggest the inclusion of Mystical Tutor, Time Walk is an absolute backbreaker.

EDIT: Also, add Yawgmoth's Will. Even without Lotus or Ancestral, it can still give you a nutty turn.

[BC]

As far as the mana base goes, you should change: -3 City of Brass, -4 Yav. Coast, -2 Trop. Island, +2 Underground Sea, +5 Fetch Lands, +2 Wasteland.  If you can make room for even more Wastelands, it's not a bad idea (maybe cut LoA).  Also, KEEP the Islands.  Basic lands are necessary.

Also, consider cutting Couterspells for Duress.  It serves a similar function, and in my opinion it is superior.

[Bill Copes]

Here's The Deadman's list from the myriad (day 1) tournament last week.  I think it's pretty strong (he sure house'd me good and Top 8'd to boot).

1x Echoing Truth
4x Oath of Druids
1x Gaea's Blessing
1x Akroma,Angel of Wrath
1x Razia, Boros Archangel
4x Force of Will
3x Mana Leak
3x Duress
2x Misdirection
1x Balance
2x Cunning Wish
3x Chalice of the Void
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Ancestral Recall
1x Time Walk
3x Impulse
4x Brainstorm
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Black Lotus
1x Tundra
2x Tropical Island
2x Underground Sea
2x Polluted Delta
2x Flooded Strand
4x Forbidden Orchard
1x Strip Mine
2x Wasteland
2x Island

Some people don't like to play chalice in oath.  You could probably run something else in that slot.  He himself said that the Balance was wacky (not specifically in those terms), but that it was too strong not to include.  In your list, Intuition / AK is kind of bleh in my opinion (it's very easily disrupted nowadays) but if it works for you, go for it.  Dana uses impulses there instead, which i think are fine.  If you want pure card draw though, perhaps Night's whisper could work for you. Echoing truth is a must-have main-deck inclusion, given the current "Empty The Warrens" fad, and in case your game plan goes awry and you're facing an army of Orchard tokens.

[LotusHead]

My buddy Dennis rocked his Oath deck with DSC and Berzerk (and Cunning Wish), but the point of this reply is....

Why play with no proxies? do you have a Sanctioned T1 scene where you want to shine?

I assumed T1 with 10 Proxies is pretty much the norm in USA.

Also, some dude named Wise on www.Starcitygames.com  is looking for playtest partners in CT (if I remember right) in the vintage forum.

[twault]

I've been playing Oath for 2 years now, and I'm constantly tweaking my decklist.

Here's what I've discovered....

I'm beginning to dislike Chalice, but I can't seem to cut it. Chalice at zero is fine, but I hate using Chalice for one. I can't stand cutting myself off from Brainstorm, but preventing a Welder from being dropped on my opponent's turn is more important. Hence, Chalice stays.

Echoing Truth is needed for Empty the Warrens, but I also run another bounce spell in my sideboard.

I run 2 x Intuition maindeck, and I know most people don't. I love it. I don't use the AK draw engine with it. I use it to get combo pieces. I can Intuition for 3 Oaths, to ensure that I get one, and then play the one in my hand (with FOW backup, of course). I can Intuition for 3 Orchards (which is great in the mirror match). I can Intuition for 3 FOWs, when I absolutely NEED to counter a spell. It's a very useful utility/search card. I can't tell you how many times that it's saved me from defeat, so it's been very good to me.

[Nehptis]

I'm beginning to dislike Chalice, but I can't seem to cut it. Chalice at zero is fine, but I hate using Chalice for one. I can't stand cutting myself off from Brainstorm, but preventing a Welder from being dropped on my opponent's turn is more important. Hence, Chalice stays.

I play Chalice Oath and recently Top 4ed in a 30+ player tourney with it.  Losing to Stax in the Top 4.  I've been having the same thoughts about Chalice.  I've been trying to justify moving it to the SB for the same reasons that you mention.  I don't mind setting it at Zero after I drop a Mox or two.  But, Chalice at Zero doesn't win me many games.  Sometimes Gifts can just play through it or Stax just gets slowed a turn or so.  Chalice at 1 is much better.  It really slows Gifts down and Welders and STPs are negated.  But, shutting off my Brainstorms does hurt sometimes.

So what do we do?  I've been racking my brain trying to replace the COTV and move it to the SB.  I don't run Null Rods since I do run Phyrexian Furnaces.  The card that I am considering running has been a SB MVP in many matches, Extract.  Turn 1 or 2 Extract is great at understanding the opponents strategy and sometimes even removing a major threat like a DSC, Titan, or Yawgwill.  Plus having another pitch card for my FOWs and Misds is never a bad thing.  You do also have to be careful not to get your Extract MisD back at you!  The only time it is a semi-dead card is against Fish and Stax.  The other matches all have Extractable targets.  So in game 1 only:

Oath Mirror: Grab a creature----> COTV is not that great here anyway
Slaver: Grab Slaver ---> COTV will shutdown Welder
Yawgwill combo: Grab YWill or a TOA or a ETW----> COTV at 1 is good here
Tinker: Grab Tinker or DSC / Titan----> COTV at 1 is good here
Fish: Grab a STP----> COTV at 1 is good here
Stax: Grab a Stax or Welder----> COTV at 1 is good but not great here

[brianpk80]

Twault, Intuition is amazing in Oath and I think you may even want to consider upping the count to three. 

As for Chalice, my method of balancing its drawbacks is that I think of Chalice as a 2 casting cost artifact that will almost always have 1 counter on it.  The 1 CC spells in my list are kept at a minimum: 4 Brainstorm, 1 Recall, 1 Sol Ring, and 1 Repeal (only affected when X = 0).  If I draw a bunch of Moxen and a Chalice on the play, then yes, I'll lay it @ 0 and I appreciate its low casting cost when I want to bluff or bait.  My list is a Tyrant list so I also can bounce Chalices if they become too inconvenient (which usually isn't too much of a problem). 

Some design considerations affected by Chalice:

I run Misdirection in place of Duress, easing the pain of Chalice @ 1.
My search/draw engine is based on Merchant Scroll and Intuition (and a Demonic Tutor), so I'm not cutting myself off from Vampiric or Mystical by laying Chalice @ 1.
Trickbind over Stifle in the sb (Scroll for it w. Chalice @ 1 in play means no Storm triggers and no Duressing it away).
Use the sb Extirpate sparingly (Dragon, Bomberman).
By running Tyrants, full power, and Academy, I can hardcast the creatures stuck in hand eventually and will not lose the game from failure to Brainstorm them back with a Chalice @ 1.

Chalice @ 1 is one of my favorite plays with this deck.  I especially like getting it on the table v. Fish because then I can play and Oath and not worry about some of their most annoying tricks (Stifling it repeatedly, CoV on creature, Swords, etc.).

-BPK

[mox apricot]

i think your build as WAY too much draw. oath's draw engine is weak because drawing puts your win condition in the worst place ever. Berserk is over kill, you can get the same effect running akroma/razia and 1 extract will no longer neuter your deck. Also, it'd think long and hard about the city of brass, I'm on the fence about it

[brianpk80]

Ah, I forgot to add this above.  You may fear being Extracted but you should never fear having your Extract Misdirected.  Even though the library searched will be your own, when the Misdirected Extract resolves, you still do the searching and pick your own target.  Remove your Mox Ruby or something inconsequential like that.

-BPK

[twault]

@ Balamor

Oath is still viable, but I think less people are playing it now in favor of Gifts. My suggestions to you are to cut all of Yavimaya Coasts and City of Brasses. Add 4 x Fetchlands (Polluted Deltas or Flooded Strands), because it helps "thin" the deck, so that you can have better draws. Add 2 Underground Seas, and either 2 Wastelands or 2 Mishra's Factories. It's always good to keep a basic land or two main. I think you'll like this manabase. Factories are a good backup plan when you can't get Oath to resolve.

1 DSC is sufficient, so I would cut the other and add an Akroma.

I would personally cut both of the Berserks, but it's really not a bad choice. Again, I think "1" is enough. You could actually regulate it to the sideboard and use Cunning Wish to get it when you need it. Just an idea...

I'm not a big fan of the Intuition/AK draw trick. I'd rather play Impulses and use Intuition as a tutor for Oath, Orchard, or FOW.

Definitely add Tinker if you are running a full set of Moxen and DSC.

@Nehptis

The problem with Chalice is that it's too good to cut, yet it hinders your ability to some degree. I run 4 maindeck, and they always seem to work against me. I don't like drawing them late, and too often times I do, which makes them a dead draw. I'm thinking of cutting the number to 3, instead of 4.

It's hard to reduce the number of 1cc spells, because I depend on them so much. I am currently running 4 x Brainstorm, Crop Rotation, Vampiric Tutor, Mystical Tutor, and 2 x Duress. I could probably cut the Mystical, since I plan on adding an Intuition. I usually don't mind getting cut off from Vampiric, but Brainstorms and Crop Rotation are a tough loss.

I used to run more counters, so that I didn't have to rely on more off-colored spells, but I lost so many games by sitting back and holding onto counterspells. Duress is a more proactive card, it allows you to attack your opponent's hand, rather than wait to see what they are going to do. It provides you with information, and allows you to predict your opponent's next turn.

Null Rod is an MVP in some matchups, and it doesn't have too much of a drawback against you. Together, Null Rod and Chalice are a force against Stax and fast combo. Null Rod cuts off all Moxen, and Chalice prevents Welder Drops. The Stax matchup is still really tough, because they can usually play around anything. Storm decks really get hurt by Chalice at "0" or "1." Gifts just laughs, because it always seems to have an answer for anything.

Extract is ok as a single main slot, because some matchups are completely unaffected, but it's probably better as a sideboard card. It is a BOMB in some matchups, like the Oath mirror and decks with few win conditions. In an Oath mirror, I played Extract on my first turn (taking Akroma), then on my second turn, I played Regrowth for Extract and took Razia, with FOW backup. Fun stuff.

However, when using Extract, what do you remove against Stax? Ichorid? "New" Belcher? Gifts? Probably nothing that useful. Plus, it's another darn 1cc card!

@brianpk80

I've actually thought of adding the 3rd Intution, but I don't have one right now, so eventually, I will add another. I never thought of Merchant Scroll, but I might have to test it. After all, it works like a dream in Gifts.

[Nehptis]

@twault:

I' playing Angel Oath and I've starting testing 3 Extract + 1 Rushing River in the 4 COTV slots.  COTV was moved to the SB.  So far Extracts are great.  Best case they act like Extracts and are bombs at removing threats from decks with a small # of win conditions.  Worst case they act like a pseudo Duress.  Meaning they give me information about my opponent's strategy.  But, obviously doesn't show me his hand.  I do like that in any sisutaiton I can pitch them to a FOW or Misd instead of a blue power card like a Brainstorm or another Counterspell.

If my build had more of a Black/ Swamp footprint I would strongly consider Extirpate in place of the Extracts.  They would almost serve a very similar function with the draw back of not being pitchable to FOW / MISD.