ernageddon

[waffles]

some friends of mine are putting together a limited vintage tourney, they have limited it to no power, no proxies and we cant use cards past ice age. i thought i would play ernageddon for this usually i would play stasis or prison, but i think a change is needed. I'm having a bit of problems finding a deck list to help me along. here is a deck list from what i kinda of remember, any suggestions for this would be welcomed.

white
----------------------------
Armageddon 4
wrath of god 2
land tax 1

green
---------------------
birds of paradise 4
lanowar elf 4
ernahm dijinn 4
Silvan library 4

artifact
---------------
zuran orb 2

9 planes
11 forest
1 strip mine
4 misra's factories

[Delha]

Mana:
+Sol Ring
+Mana Crypt
+Savannah
+Brushland

Dudes:
Need more beaters.
Maybe 2x Serra Angel? Whirling Dervish? Order of the White Shield? Juggernaut?
Maybe White Knight, Savannah Lion, Thunder Spirit, or Elvish Archers. These lean more towards a weenie deck, though.

Spells:
-Sylvan Library x2
+Land Tax (maybe 2?)
+Balance
+Swords to Plowshares (probably 4)
+Disenchant (probably 2)



Mana Vault and Fellwar Stone are a couple more options if you want more artifact mana to enable faster recovery from 'geddon.

[waffles]

Mana:
+Sol Ring
+Mana Crypt
+Savannah
+Brushland

Dudes:
Need more beaters.
Maybe 2x Serra Angel? Whirling Dervish? Order of the White Shield? Juggernaut?
Maybe White Knight, Savannah Lion, Thunder Spirit, or Elvish Archers. These lean more towards a weenie deck, though.

Spells:
-Sylvan Library x2
+Land Tax (maybe 2?)
+Balance
+Swords to Plowshares (probably 4)
+Disenchant (probably 2)



Mana Vault and Fellwar Stone are a couple more options if you want more artifact mana to enable faster recovery from 'geddon.

ill have to look to see if i have them. not really sure how to pilot this deck. i know cast Ernie then 'geddon anything else i'm missing?

[Delha]

Ideally, something like that, yeah.

Mostly just the obvious stuff, I'd assume. The deck seems pretty straightforward.

• Hold back lands to drop after 'geddon. Don't replay forests if you don't need 'em so the Ernham drawback is nil.
• Don't burn Swords early on random dorks. Save them to just clear out blockers that can kill your fat.
• A quick Ernham may let you force them into committing heavily to the board, getting you extra value on Wrath/Balance.
• Forgot to mention Jade Statue as another possible creature.

[serracollector]

Wow, nice.  When I saw this it reminded me of the ice age tournaments, when necrotepence ruled the land.  

I read a report in Inquest years, years, years ago, and it had an ernageddon deck that placed 2nd.

it used white knights and spectral bears due to the high use of the necro decks back then, if expecting lots of mind twist/ritual/hymn/hyppy decks, might be a route to take.

Also don't forget Autumn Williow.  Only card that can kill her is Wrath and Nev's Disk (i Believe)

Personally I would run the geddon/orb combo.

Some thing liike:

4 x Howling Mine
4 x Winter Orb
4 x Icey manipulator
4 x geddon
4 x Ern
4 x Bird
4 x relic barrier
2 x Autumn Willow
4 x Elves
4 x Swords
2 x Disenchant
20 lands


Not to mention other cards such as Balance, Sol ring, and mana crypt if those are allowed.

Sylvan library is good but howling mine/relic barrier is better.

If you decide to play land tax, or expect lots of burn decks, I would suggest Ivory Tower.  Its great to geddon even if you don't have a creature, then just build back up and gain life while waiting.

Spirit link is another option as well, remember you can target autumn willow if you pay.  Also spirit link, if maindecked, allows you to safely play Force of Nature.  No joke, link on Force + geddon = gg fast.

Not sure on current rulings, but before tapping your winter orb or howling mine turned if "off"  meaning if you tap the orb EOT, you get to untap lands, they dont, and u keep them locked with icy manipulators, while outdrawing them with Howling Mines, which you ofc tap to turn off during their turn.

Another neat card used in the deck was Titania's Song, Karn effect for all your artifacts, GG etc.

My 2 cents, good luck!@!

[Venominon]

the deck shouldn't be running Factory because you are geddoning anyways, also you have high color requirements. I think it ran less forests and Brushland instead so you can play green without forest. Autumn Willow is too expensive to reliably cast. I would also expect a ton of Necro decks and B/W decks (since those are the most powerful in the format) and be playing 3x Hurricane to kill off Serra, Sengir and any greedy Necro players that don't think you have Direct Damage.

[Delha]

Personally I would run the geddon/orb combo.

That seems a bit redundant, no? Once you 'Geddon, they don't have a lot of lands to be affected by Orb. In that case, you're just slowing yourself down, since you presumably Taxed or simply held back lands to recover faster anyway.

Agreed that Autumn Willow can be solid. I wouldn't run more than 1 or 2 though, for the same reason I suggested only 2x Serra Angel. They're both pricier than Ernham, and in this deck that 1 mana can mean a lot.

Hurricanes also sound like a good call to me.

If you think other people in the meta are also likely to research old decks, I'd up the Disenchant count to 4. Necro was certainly rampant back in the day, and taking out their disks is a nice plus as well.

[serracollector]

Well that is assuming they are allowing 4 necro's.  An remember no power, so 4 elves/4 birds puts you ahead on your mana curve.  Force of Nature and Autumn willow are far from "too costly" when you take out power, and force of will, and Urza Block +++

Also, with only 4-6 "fat" creatures, the Winter Orb/relic Barrier/Howling mine combo gives you the time and ability to draw those fat creatures and 4 geddons.

And as I said it also gives you Titani's Song, which is only 4 mana, and by turn like 6-10 you should have enuff artifacts on the board ftw.

No redundancy in controlling the board until you get the ernageedon combo up, and orb should never hurt you with relic barrier, and icy manipulator to tap it down, its a pure win/win situation.

4 disenchants is only needed if your expecting stax (workshop is still included here as well as juggernaut and suchi).

[Delha]

Well that is assuming they are allowing 4 necro's.  An remember no power, so 4 elves/4 birds puts you ahead on your mana curve.  Force of Nature and Autumn willow are far from "too costly" when you take out power, and force of will, and Urza Block +++

Five or six mana always has been and always will be expensive. Vintage has the best acceleration of any format, but you don't see people claiming Jar or Bargain are  easy to cast.

Also, with only 4-6 "fat" creatures, the Winter Orb/relic Barrier/Howling mine combo gives you the time and ability to draw those fat creatures and 4 geddons.

And as I said it also gives you Titani's Song, which is only 4 mana, and by turn like 6-10 you should have enuff artifacts on the board ftw.

No redundancy in controlling the board until you get the ernageedon combo up, and orb should never hurt you with relic barrier, and icy manipulator to tap it down, its a pure win/win situation.

4 disenchants is only needed if your expecting stax (workshop is still included here as well as juggernaut and suchi).

I hadn't really read your list. I have now, and I'll openly say that it's terrible.

First, I recommend running more than 4-6 beaters. I'd argue for double that number, probably sticking closer to 8ish than 12ish.

Second, I think you're talking about Relic Bind, which you really ought to look up the Oracle text for. Relic Bind is garbage. Maybe if they hadn't errata'd it, one could run the combo with Basalt Monolith, but that doesn't change the fact that it does nothing for or against Orb/Mine.

Third, Icy might be viable, but Orb and Mine are terrible. 4x Orb is a bad idea for the same reason that 4x Crucible is a bad idea in Stax. The deck has no extra draw, so ripping a dead Orb is especially terrible. Howling Mine has massive dissynergy with Armageddon. If you're thinking of tapping it down every single turn, then you're wasting the potential of your Icy. That also ignores when you simply have Mine w/out Icy.

Fourth, you are trying to turn this into a completely different deck. Titania's Song demands a heavy artifact count, which I suppose is why you started including terrible artifact suggestions.

Fifth, Stax? WTF? You really have have no idea what you're talking about, do you? The is no Smokestack, no Sphere of Resistance, no Tangle Wire, no Wasteland, no Welder. Someone could probably build a non-disruptive MUD variant, but practically none of the lock components which make Stax even conceptually possible are legal in this meta.

[waffles]

i dont know if they are going to allow the old ice age block or just ice age, if not that means homelands is out. as far as the bannned/restrict list they are still deciding on that. I did do some snooping i did find out that so far some ppl are going to be rolling necro, there are a few stasis players. hehe the bane of necro few ernie players and some sligh.

[Bill Copes]

I'd totally go 3-color:

4 Serendib Efreet
4 Ernham Djinn
4 Birds of Paradise

4 Armageddon
4 Counterspell
4 Disenchant
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Land Tax
3 Portent
2 Zuran Orb

4 City of Brass
4 Brushland
4 Adakar Wastes
4 Island
3 Forest
3 Plains
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt


----------------

A great card that can establish a lock with Armageddon is Zur's Weirding:


You can keep them off lands forevers.


----------------More Edit----------------

I didn't include brainstorms because of the lack of shuffle effects.   Land Tax probably makes them playable.

[waffles]

*Update* i took 3rd wouldve took 2nd my opponent pulled a lighting bolt on his draw a turn before i was to win on our final match
my prize was a booster pack of 4th ed

[TheBrassMan]

congrats! this was a fun thread to follow

[Delha]

Congrats! Would you mind sharing the list you ended up running with? Also, is the event recurring, and are you planning on playing the same deck?

[zeus-online]

Sounds like fun! I would've run some blue based control deck though...But then again i always run blue based control if i can get away with it!

Grats with the finish.

What was the meta like?

[waffles]

Sounds like fun! I would've run some blue based control deck though...But then again i always run blue based control if i can get away with it!

Grats with the finish.

What was the meta like?

thank you all for your help! they decided on 4x necro so those decks got a massive boost. As for the meta itself it was ruled mostly by necro, id never thought id see the day again where resolved terror was a game ender. i did end up doing one mirrior match but i managed to geddon before he did on g3, yay me, there was two interesting rogue decks a white/black deck that ran white/black knights and pump knights. that player didnt stick around for long due to getting called into work and a deck that ran armageddon clock and some weenies  that player got knocked out in the 1st set. I wonder if this could be updated to run in the current vintage enviroment. My deck list i finally end up using is as follows:

----------------------------
white
----------------------------
Armageddon 4
wrath of god 2
land tax 2
white knights 4
4 swords
---------------------
green
---------------------
birds of paradise 4
lanowar elf 4
ernahm dijinn 4
whirling dervish 4
Silvan library 3
---------------------------
artifact
---------------------------
zuran orb 2

9 planes
10 forest
4 brushland

we couldnt use stuff from homelands or i would have used spectral bears in green and i didnt have the Savannahs so i subbed accordingly.

Congrats! Would you mind sharing the list you ended up running with? Also, is the event recurring, and are you planning on playing the same deck?

so far its only a one time thing dunno if we will do another since ppl's scheduals are usually tight, but i might see if i can con them into doing a theme event based on a card. all would have to use that one card doesnt matter if the win with it but it must contain it, I.E. something like Armageddon clock. The rules would be must be main deck with at least 1x main board any vintage legal card can be used. a side note i wonder if armageddon clock could truely abused i from what i can see i think it could.

[Cthulhu1975]

Thanks for the interesting reading. In Sweden we have a format called 93/94 which is a bit similar to that you were playing with. In 93/94 only cards from Alpha, Beta, Unlimited, Arabian Nights, Antiquities, Legends and The Dark are permitted. No reprints (such as duals from Revised) or foreign cards (such as Italian Mana Drains). We play with the new rules and use the Vintage restricted list, with a few additions.

I have not played it yet but plan on building Erhnamgeddon 

We have had some smaller tournaments already and it is nice to see decks such as Stasis, Black with Juzams, Red-Green-Blue aggro, White Weenie and The Deck. Kinda makes you feel like it's the early Magic days again.

[Delha]

so far its only a one time thing dunno if we will do another since ppl's scheduals are usually tight, but i might see if i can con them into doing a theme event based on a card. all would have to use that one card doesnt matter if the win with it but it must contain it, I.E. something like Armageddon clock. The rules would be must be main deck with at least 1x main board any vintage legal card can be used. a side note i wonder if armageddon clock could truely abused i from what i can see i think it could.

That format sounds really cool, although I personally like the idea of demanding that all players run the theme card as a 4-of, and implementing a rule like "Game wins from cards other than THEMECARD count as draws", to avoid decklists that are 59 card Oath + 1 Armageddon Clock which gets ignored whenever drawn.

Glad you guys are having fun, and I look forward to helping out with your next brew, provided you're willing to include us in the process again.

[waffles]

so far its only a one time thing dunno if we will do another since ppl's scheduals are usually tight, but i might see if i can con them into doing a theme event based on a card. all would have to use that one card doesnt matter if the win with it but it must contain it, I.E. something like Armageddon clock. The rules would be must be main deck with at least 1x main board any vintage legal card can be used. a side note i wonder if armageddon clock could truely abused i from what i can see i think it could.

That format sounds really cool, although I personally like the idea of demanding that all players run the theme card as a 4-of, and implementing a rule like "Game wins from cards other than THEMECARD count as draws", to avoid decklists that are 59 card Oath + 1 Armageddon Clock which gets ignored whenever drawn.

Glad you guys are having fun, and I look forward to helping out with your next brew, provided you're willing to include us in the process again.

i think i figured out how to deal with that, alternative kills only count if the main win condition as been rendered not possible. i did think of requiring 4x of but some times that is a bit much for a deck to have. still trying to figure out how to still allow for flexablity. im going to make a different thread on this.

Now does anyone know what i could do to update this deck to run in the curent vintage format, or is this a deck that is out lived its time?

[Delha]

Now does anyone know what i could do to update this deck to run in the curent vintage format, or is this a deck that is out lived its time?

I think that it is conceptually outdated. Armageddon will almost never resolve in the current format. I suspect that if you playtest it, you will find that it is almost always Duressed away or countered, or you will not have enough mana (due to disruption and sphere effects) to ever cast in in the first place. Any competitive deck in the format that does not do one of these things (any many that do), will also simply combo out before you can build up to 4 mana, since Ernhamgeddon doesn't have much by way of early disruption.