supporting Bitter ordeal

[Darkenslight]

Do you really need waste effects if you BO for four T1 against non-Dredge?

I can see the use of Wastes, I just don't know where to put the bleeding things.

[waffles]

Do you really need waste effects if you BO for four T1 against non-Dredge?

I can see the use of Wastes, I just don't know where to put the bleeding things.

this is why this card is kinda fun to build around, it's a serious challenge. true, but turn one doesn't always guarantee that it will go off so having a way to slow them down is a good thing. Although, iit might be  bit much, but urborg, to make them tap for might work.

[RecklessEmbermage]

Hrm...DECKLIST TIEM!  

Mana: 25

6 Swamp
6 Fetch
4 Drit.
7 SoLoMoxen
Crypt
Mana Vault

Combo: 16

4 Phyrexian Altar
4 Nether Traitor
2 Nether Spirit
2 Bloodghast
4 Bitter Ordeal

Other: 19

Necro
YawgWin
DT
4 Buried Alive
4 Duress
4 Thoughtsieze
4 open slots (probably Entomb)

SB: 15

4 Ravenous Trap
4 LotV
4 Helm of Obedience
3 open.

That way, you can side out your chaff BO for Helmline, which has completely different hate.

I'm sorry, but I just do not see the point in building the deck in such a way that it does nothing but bitter ordeal. And I absolutely hate phyrexian altar and buried alive. If altar is countered or destroyed, your deck falls apart. Needlessly, as far as I can see.

Living the dream of a turn one, 4 card ordeal is cute, as well as comboing out and decking the opponent, but so far the suggestions for how to accomplish this looks sketchy at best and I'd still rather ordeal for 3 turn 2-3. These cards are actually good and makes resolving bitter ordeal easy:

fetches
wastelands
dark rituals
bloodghasts
skullclamps
confidants
therapies

I'd include a few hexmages and marit lage to fuel the sac effects and avoid embarassing losses to utility creatures and whatnot past ordeal, as well as a maindeck out to graveyard hate. Alternatively, splash green for seal of primordium (easiest two points of gravestorm you ever saw).

Edit: Card correction

[Killane]

Do you really need waste effects if you BO for four T1 against non-Dredge?

I can see the use of Wastes, I just don't know where to put the bleeding things.

99% of the time, Dredge will have a Bazaar in their opening hand. i can;t imagine y combo of 4 cards that you could ordeal out that will stop them from obliterating you.

[Delha]

Do you really need waste effects if you BO for four T1 against non-Dredge?

I can see the use of Wastes, I just don't know where to put the bleeding things.

99% of the time, Dredge will have a Bazaar in their opening hand. i can;t imagine y combo of 4 cards that you could ordeal out that will stop them from obliterating you.

Narco x4?

[AmbivalentDuck]

You still get obliterated, just a turn or two later.

[Killane]

yep. Bloodghasts = good!

[Delha]

Well, you'd hopefully do something cool in the couple turns you bought. Capping them again might be a good start.

[Killane]

Well, you'd hopefully do something cool in the couple turns you bought. Capping them again might be a good start.

playing with cards that actually do something might be a better start. Cap effects are good against a marginal percentage of the field. They're sideboard cards at best, not maindeck material (except a singelton Sad Sac or the like in a Dark Times silver bullet strategy), and certainly not somethign to build around. Yes it's a cool kill if you go infinite with it, but unless you're doing so, it's just not going to win the game against a number of decks out there. And if you are doing so, there are much faster, more resilliant wincons out there.

You also get butchered by Leyline, which happends to be one of the most popular sideboard cards in the format.

As an aside, Sun Titan versions of combo Dredge will still kill you on turn two without Narcomoebas with a bit of luck. I've certainly done so without hitting Narcos before. You need a land in hand and a Fatesticher/2+ Bloodghasts or 1 Ghast and a Bridge in the yard during your first mainphase. Eventually you Dread Return Ttan, get a Bazaar, get your Ghasts back, dredge again, etc...

[Delha]

Well, you'd hopefully do something cool in the couple turns you bought. Capping them again might be a good start.

playing with cards that actually do something might be a better start. Cap effects are good against a marginal percentage of the field. They're sideboard cards at best, not maindeck material (except a singelton Sad Sac or the like in a Dark Times silver bullet strategy), and certainly not somethign to build around. Yes it's a cool kill if you go infinite with it, but unless you're doing so, it's just not going to win the game against a number of decks out there. And if you are doing so, there are much faster, more resilliant wincons out there.

Yeah, but that's a post for page 1, not page 3. I said as much initially as well. At this point in the conversation though, I figured we're just accepting that this discussion is about what can be done within the framework of a deck built to resolve Ordeal.

[RecklessEmbermage]

Well, you'd hopefully do something cool in the couple turns you bought. Capping them again might be a good start.

playing with cards that actually do something might be a better start. Cap effects are good against a marginal percentage of the field. They're sideboard cards at best, not maindeck material (except a singelton Sad Sac or the like in a Dark Times silver bullet strategy), and certainly not somethign to build around. Yes it's a cool kill if you go infinite with it, but unless you're doing so, it's just not going to win the game against a number of decks out there. And if you are doing so, there are much faster, more resilliant wincons out there.

Yeah, but that's a post for page 1, not page 3. I said as much initially as well. At this point in the conversation though, I figured we're just accepting that this discussion is about what can be done within the framework of a deck built to resolve Ordeal.

Resolving an effective ordeal (3-4 copies still do quite a bit against a number of decks) is a decent goal for a deck, but cannot be the only one. It is a very marginal wincon, so I suggest you include some realistic way of winning games. Playing phyrexian altars and bloodpets and whatnot is not necessary to turn on ordeal and makes it very hard to win (the opponent has more real cards than you). You are moving down a dead end at the moment.

[Darkenslight]

Okay then, what about BO in an Ironworks frame?  Seems like it could be potent,  Fast artifacts +KCI +BO, with Discard.  KCI nets 2 mana/artifact, and you can go for a form of Mono-B Stax, with shenanigans built-in.  Just a thought.