Red Elemental Blast or Pyroblast?

[Bone]

Regards

Red Elemental Blast:
Choose one - Counter target blue spell; or destroy target blue permanent.

Pyroblast:
Choose one - Counter target spell if it's blue; or destroy target permanent if it's blue.

In what situations will they be different because of this text? Is the "correct desiscion" to go 4 of the one that best suits your metagame?

I used to do 1/3 or 2/2 (just as we do with fetches) but now I'm not sure anymore....

[brokenbacon]

Pyroblast can be Misdirectioned - REB cannot. REB can't even target a nonblue spell, but Pyroblast can. Thus, Pyroblast can be Misdirected to another target but REB, not necessarily.
Also, unless you're worried about Meddling Mage naming REB (which is a pretty bad play, imo) I wouldn't worry about running a 4/0 split.

EDIT: Here's a thread about it as well: http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=14426.0

[Eastman]

If you are running Gifts Ungiven, having a mix lets you put together a better gifts protection pile-I.e. Reb/pyro/drain/FoW. And of course there is meddling mage, which is probably more common than misdirection right now, although they are unlikely to name Reb or pyro.  However the misdirection case is often exaggerated-- it is only relevant if your opponent has MisD AND there arent any blue perms or spells on the stack for them to MisD a REB to. Oh and don't forget that if you are running tendrils, pyroblast can target a random land to build storm count.  The gifts case is important, so I think the optimal build would run a mix of at least one pyro with the balance REB.


Of course, everything above is an incredibly narrow corner case. Since this is type 1, not the pro tour, I run a mix of alpha and beta REB because they look really awesome.   Pyro, on the other hand, looks really lame compared to black bordered REBs.

[TheWhiteDragon]

Can Misd target Reb changing the target to Misd?

[Chill79]

Can Misd target Reb changing the target to Misd?

yep it ican

[The Atog Lord]

Can Misd target Reb changing the target to Misd?

Only if REB is cast in "Counter target blue spell" mode. If cast in "Destroy target blue permanent" it cannot be misdirected to target Misdirection.

[vassago]

Because of Pyroblast being able to target anything essentially, it can be used to up storm count as well. Not very useful, but I have been in games where it has happened.

[Wagner]

You didn't specify in what deck you use it, but I always favor Pyroblast over REB because I often use it in aggro decks with Grim Lavamancer, pitching a card in a grave can very well be relevant.

It also pitches easier for Tarmo, but really, having an instant in a grave shouldn't be an issue.

[Bone]

Can Misd target Reb changing the target to Misd?

Only if REB is cast in "Counter target blue spell" mode. If cast in "Destroy target blue permanent" it cannot be misdirected to target Misdirection.

I will play this in UR Fish. Does that mean if I use the "Counter target blue spell" mode on REB he can NOT misdirect it to one of my Ninjas, Cursecatchers ect?

[Yare]

Can Misd target Reb changing the target to Misd?

Only if REB is cast in "Counter target blue spell" mode. If cast in "Destroy target blue permanent" it cannot be misdirected to target Misdirection.

I will play this in UR Fish. Does that mean if I use the "Counter target blue spell" mode on REB he can NOT misdirect it to one of my Ninjas, Cursecatchers ect?

Once you pick the mode for the spell (in this case, target permanent or target spell), that is locked in until the spell resolves, regardless of whether it is misdirected later. So, if you play REB or Pyroblast targeting a blue spell, he can Misdirect either one of those, but it will have to be to another spell, not a permanent. The same is true if you target a blue permanent and he goes to Misdirect it; it would have to be to another permanent.

Therefore, in the case of REB, the new target has to be of the same type (spell or permanent) originally selected and blue. In the case of Pyroblast, the new target need only be of the same type (spell or permanent) and color doesn't matter. Of course, if the new target is not blue for Pyroblast, Pyroblast will still resolve, it just won't do anything because its target isn't blue.

[Bone]

I will play this in UR Fish. Does that mean if I use the "Counter target blue spell" mode on REB he can NOT misdirect it to one of my Ninjas, Cursecatchers ect?

Once you pick the mode for the spell (in this case, target permanent or target spell), that is locked in until the spell resolves, regardless of whether it is misdirected later. So, if you play REB or Pyroblast targeting a blue spell, he can Misdirect either one of those, but it will have to be to another spell, not a permanent. The same is true if you target a blue permanent and he goes to Misdirect it; it would have to be to another permanent.

Therefore, in the case of REB, the new target has to be of the same type (spell or permanent) originally selected and blue. In the case of Pyroblast, the new target need only be of the same type (spell or permanent) and color doesn't matter. Of course, if the new target is not blue for Pyroblast, Pyroblast will still resolve, it just won't do anything because its target isn't blue.

Thanks Then REB it will be. Nice postcount btw

[Yare]

I will play this in UR Fish. Does that mean if I use the "Counter target blue spell" mode on REB he can NOT misdirect it to one of my Ninjas, Cursecatchers ect?

Once you pick the mode for the spell (in this case, target permanent or target spell), that is locked in until the spell resolves, regardless of whether it is misdirected later. So, if you play REB or Pyroblast targeting a blue spell, he can Misdirect either one of those, but it will have to be to another spell, not a permanent. The same is true if you target a blue permanent and he goes to Misdirect it; it would have to be to another permanent.

Therefore, in the case of REB, the new target has to be of the same type (spell or permanent) originally selected and blue. In the case of Pyroblast, the new target need only be of the same type (spell or permanent) and color doesn't matter. Of course, if the new target is not blue for Pyroblast, Pyroblast will still resolve, it just won't do anything because its target isn't blue.

Thanks Then REB it will be. Nice postcount btw

Thanks. Actually, I recommend the 2/2 split because Meddling Mage is more prevalent than Misdirection right now (at least in my local metagame). Of course, your local metagame may vary and you should always take that into consideration. If you run Gifts Ungiven, at least a 3/1 split is strongly recommended for obvious reasons (though you wouldn't be running Gifts in UR fish).

Edit: So much for my 1111 post count.

[TheBrassMan]

dudes.

I was going to write a response to this thread, but it kept getting longer and longer so I just made it an article

Discussion thread here if you're interested

[Sextiger]

You should have done the article artistically with just back and forth pictures of the art from REB/Pyro and end the article with "Case Closed," the artwork on Pyro stinks. 

[TheBrassMan]

artwork on REB ain't a masterpiece or anything

[Bill Copes]

Don't people just usually play what they have that is the most pimp-looking in this instance?  I run beta rebs and a pyro, just to stay black bordered.  However, if I had unlimited Rebs, I wouldn't run ice age pyrobasts.

[TheBrassMan]

that's covered in the article!

[Eastman]

Don't people just usually play what they have that is the most pimp-looking in this instance?  I run beta rebs and a pyro, just to stay black bordered.  However, if I had unlimited Rebs, I wouldn't run ice age pyrobasts.

Of course, everything above is an incredibly narrow corner case. Since this is type 1, not the pro tour, I run a mix of alpha and beta REB because they look really awesome.   Pyro, on the other hand, looks really lame compared to black bordered REBs.

Been doing it for ages.

The best was back in the cunning wish days.  I had 3 beta rebs and an alpha REB in my board.  I would side in the beta rebs, but leave the alpha in the board to cunning wish for since it was an "instant."  HAWT  Plus the difference helped remind me to always leave the one in the board since having it to c-wish for was crucial.  

[Grand Inquisitor]

but leave the alpha in the board to cunning wish for since it was an "instant."  HAWT 

In days long past I had met that red blast and suffered its vicious burning tongue.