hi all,
I waited a bit for some feedbacks to feed more this topic.
Here I am.
I'm glad you like my writing and decks' ideas.
Thanks!
I tested MonoRedLock version you referred and I found it really good.
His control of the game is strong.
On the other hand, the lack of possible *quick and hard beating* pulled me away from it.
I ended a lot of games in a complete lock but without too many efficient ways to seal games.
My beaters of choices are usually first or second turn plays and they apply pressure to opponents since the start of the game, almost killing fast coupled with the remaining lock pieces.
In summary, this is the more interesting and crucial difference between monored and 5colored version of *new-age* MW.decs
Artifacts are less crucial and they HAVE to be coupled with other strong spells to be able to lock opponents.
RootMazes, BtB and BloodMoons are all different and good ways to approach this problem, especially because, as usual BlueBasedDeck are winning all around to world!
only 3 workshop? If you have so few 3c+ artifacts that multiple workshops are actually redundant cards, then you should cut workshop entirely for ancient tomb. which means cut karn and trike too. for another shaman and darkblast
The cutoff MW#4 have been a last minute change.
I was sick of drawing into them when uneeded and added CoB#4. While I hate drawing into them in multiples, until now, I felt cutting them entirely would be worst then having a fewer number. If you play the deck as it is presented here, there is a good rate to hold a 3cc card or an higher cc card into hand during the first turn. Without MWs, you are slower. MWs could assure you a strong first colorless first turn play, while Ancient Tomb would help you in a lesser manner on this intent.
But I appreciate the suggestion and tried to optimize this possible change, maximizing the sinergies between AncientTombs and the rest of the deck.
The best play you can perform holding a CoB and an AncientTomb would be playing a first turn piece of lock ( Maze or Pillar or CotV ) and then putting some pressure to your opponent with a Beast ( D.Conf, Shaman, Juggy, Fatties ). You can easily exchange the spell's sequence between first turn and second turn play without too many differences on board.
IMHO,THE ONLY INTERESTING THING here consist on trying to optimize things with NOT MORE than two lands, in order to be able to do good plays even with the fewer mana at your disposal. If you include moxen in multiples you are referring to really good hands, so they didn't count too much, statistically speaking.
The best way to kill *statistical unlucky gme situations* is to add beaters/locking pieces that would be on board quickly and frequently.
On this isssue, while 5/3 and Karn/Trisk are good, there are other subtle and even stronger substitutes that can be played into the deck when cutting MWs for Ancient Tombs.
If you look at my sideboard, you see that I have Negators too. They put the same Juggy's clock but they don't need THAT POSSIBLY UNFREQUENT forth mana to be resolve on your second turn. You can lead with both CoB or Tombs and be able to resolve ANYONE of your spells. This is HUGE. REALLY HUGE!
I underestimate Tombs' strength to let you resolve EVEN non artifacts' spells with ease and AT NOW this addition is PURE GOLD, when acting changing maindeck beaters configuration as I refer on my last lines!
Regarding possible choices, both Negators or Grunts are good maindeck additions but I suggest you not to play Grunts, because of the frequent little number of cards in your grave. You cannot mill through you grave/deck too much and almost any threat would be a good board addition that usually will not finish into the grave aside from being countered. Negators are good against all the matchups all around, excluding RedBurnDecks that are not so frequent at now. You can get around burn with ease thanks to Chalices and Wires.
Darkblast addition would add another tutorable bomb. I have it in my sideboard during my last weeks' sessions until I swapped it for Pyroclasm first and then DSC ( because of maindeck Tinker ). Making some maindeck space for it would add an additional tool that can be easily tutored and played multiple times.
24 mana fonts would be enough to resolve almost anything with a minor mana investment and the lower mana curve would save you precious life points when D.Confidant is in play for a long time. Cutting Triskelion, Karn and Juggies would let you leave in play even 2 Confidants without fearing too much nasty autokills.
Is the Karn necessary in this build? I understand that it can be used like gorilla shaman, to eat moxes and chalices and whatnot, but you don't have many artifacts of your own to animate. In my experience, Karn is better used to animate crap and give stax a clock. Since you already have one with the juggernauts and confidants, why not use a Duplicant in that slot. If anything, it will give you a maindeck answer to Tinker > Colossus.
Another good item for that slot could be an Engineered Explosives, to take out random problem cards, or ETW tokens.
In the end, I always use Karn as an HypertrophicShaman#3 that could be Tinkered out when needed.
Cutting Karn, Triskelion and maybe Juggies would leave the deck with so few artifact's targets to force me thinking to cut even Tinker itself.
Making such decisions and, on the wave of the last sentences written after vroman feedback and yousr, I can optimize a bit better the number of maindeck singletons.
E.E. is an extraordinary weapon in a no-Rod-filled metagame. Mine isn't so much Fish based but there are lot of different decks that can play or add Rods post side and with different goals. You would have a good answer to EtW and any deck playing the latter would not play Rods, so I feel confidant on it a tutorable tool.
SenseiDiviningTop and/or PithingNeedle could be other possible maindeck additions. I would love playing entire games with Top in play coupled with Confidants or stop Welders from switching things, but I feel that those scenarios would be some too much random or tutor-based game situations.
On the other hand, Balance, Darkblast, E.E. and Tutors would mix their great strength and different usefulness in a perfect way to let you deal with almost anything among opponents' possible weapons. Wires would buy me time against DSC or other greater fatties, when needed. Multiple Duplicants could be sideboard addition if DSC is a frequent problem in your area.
Interesting build.
When I played 4/5c Stax, it seemed to me that the main focus was to get Stripmine in play and reccur it with Crucible. Since you do run Demonic/Vamp Tutor and Crop Rotation, why only 2 Crucible in the main deck? Not to mention Gemstone Mine's late game suckiness with no Crucible.
This is true. I started with 4CoW, then 3, finishing playing only 2 of them. I like them really a lot against fish for defensive reasons. On the other hand, drawing into them in multiples is really boring. The first is good during turn 2 or 3 and usually CoW#2, #3 and #4 are dead draws. During turn 2 or 3 you can use a tutor to catch both Strip or CoW with ease and optimize your previous strong plays ( Maze, Pillars, CotVs ). At now, I feel that the aggro approach of the deck would not reward an high number of CoWs. They are perfect if you play a control MW.dec that must optimize all his resources and that can slow down you almost only with board control. This deck, on the other hand, is a good mix of cheap threats AND good beaters. You would not give to opponents too time to recover. Hard locks are almost uneeded and a single Stripmine shot is usually enough to deprive opponents of a precious single turn and give you the needed time to attack with a 5/5 or a 5/3 and some weeines.
The additional CoW#3 in side have been added almost only because of Fish and mirror matches, when opponent's Wastelands are too strong against you to be undestimated.
I have always liked Pyro Pillars because they come down easy enough and if you have some permanent damage on the board, they can win the game for you. Juggs can actually provide a decent clock again with a Pillar on the board. That being said, have they tested better than other 2cc cards such as Null Rod or Sphere of Resistance?
There are a lot of game situations during which Rods and SoR would autolock you too much.
You mana base consist of a lot of Moxen and artifact accelerants, your lands are hatable and you need 3 or 4 mana to resolve spells. You need anyone of your mana on board during the entire game. I would add SoR/Rod only against COmbo decks but the matchup against them is really good even without their usage. There are too many things that would prevent opponents from abusing of cheap spells and y.will to add MORE hate against this strategy.
Deckbuilding things that could apply some real pressure to opponents' manabase is every day more difficult because any good deck is hard to hate out with simple denial strategies. Mazes and Pillars would cover this gap really well because they would prevent too much abuses of opponents' fetchlands and one shot free mana.
With a Shaman in play RootMaze enable you to think that opponents would not have any artifact ready to be played at all.
With a Pillar in play, Mazes and CotV would slow down the game of more than a single turn.
With a Wasteland in play, any Fetchland could be killed without letting opponents to search for those damned basic lands.
I'm really interested on your feedbacks about this argument, because I feel that it is a core statement among the ones possible around this deck.
Even if this lock is difficult to achieve with an opponent's CotV@1 in play, the deck's structure would reward you under any other game situation.
Your board would grow and opponents' one would thin for different reasons.
So in your opinion, Confidant is better than Goblin Welder in this deck, correct? What is your defence against an early Tinker->Colossus?
I do like your aggro approach, it seems you would rather make the opponent focus on your threats than finding answers to theirs. I guess it seems pretty hit-or-miss. Maybe thats a good thing though, you can't always have answers to every card your opponent plays. Good luck
Mike
These are two good questions.
Welders are good in an artifacts filled deck's structure. In this deck, I prefer to draw more cards and resolve threats quickly. I cannot recycle too many crucial lock pieces and there are few reasons to play Welders here instead of Confidants. Confidants is a better clock for the opponents when the soft lock is going on and two cards every turn are crucial for the win. The best two plays of this deck are a lot of mana and Mazes or a first turn Confidant. Both of them would not seal the game, but they usually are great bait counters and help you building straightforward winnings.
Welders could recur too few things here. I'm sure that Welder can get rid of blind Tinker for DSC, but smart opponents would not let you switch DSC with Moxen so easily ( y.will or skeletals are good ways to avoid switches ). Needles and T.Crypts are all around so I cannot think about playing Welders cutting COnfidants.
I usually kill opponents' DSC shutting it down with Tangle Wire. My board is usually better and I can play 2 or 3 turns without fearing its attack. I can tutor for them or draw into them with good percentages. Tinker for Dup is another good way to deal with DSC, but during last game sessions, I realized how few players play DSC blindly or prefer it to other winners. EtW, ToA and Freeze are good DSC replacements and in my area 11/11 wins are unfrequent at now. Wires and Tutors are always enough to get rid of it. As I previously said, Duplicants in multiples in side are perfect to deal with it and other fatties.
This is the list that you can deduce from my previous written words.
(24) _ Mana
4 City of Brass
3 Ancient Tomb3 Gemstone Mine
2 Wasteland
1 Ghost Quarter1 Stripmine
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Jet
1 Black Lotus
1 Lotus Petal
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
(17) _ Lock
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Root Maze3 Tangle Wire
2 Crucible of Worlds
(11) _ Beaters
4 Dark Confidant
4 Phyrexian Negators
3 Gorilla Shaman
(9) _ Singletons
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Crop Rotation
1 Balance
1 Trinisphere
1 Darkblast
1 Engineered Explosives
(15) _ Sideboard
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Viashino Heretics
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Tinker
1 Darksteel Colossus
1 Sundering Titan
1 Mindslaver
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ghost QuarterSideboards' additions are singletons Tinker's targets and another way to deal with basis lands.
G.Quarter can kill opponent's mana base when coupled with RootMaze. They fetch their basic lands tapped, you kill their Islands, they can fetch for other lands that come into play tapped again virtually negating the Quarter's drawback.
Sideboards without Tinker and Tinker's targets can be done, as well. I tested both M.Mages or J.Grunt in their slots with good results.
For a mixed metagame, I consider not losing the strength of Tinker at all. His addition from side, when needed is stronger against specific opponents and decks.
Slaver/Titan are good against control, Colossus against aggro and Needle can be good against Ichorid/WelderControls, as well.
This new version of the deck has new spins and a lot of possible interesting results and evolutions based on local metagames.
Not to mention that it is an unexpected and strong build that can force opponent's decks to concede games really fast.
I really like the 5colors approach because it gives me any possible pearl. Any color has something to show to you.
This deck let you play them all... quick and lethal...
Maxx
