Is burn viable?

[John Jones]

I was thinking with the ammount of Key/Vault and ichorid decks showing up, couldn't burn be pretty good.

Something along the lines of

4 Lighting bolt
4 Chain Lighting
4 Lava Spike
4 Smash to smithereenes
4 Mogg Fanatic

3 Sulfuric Vortex
4 Rift Bolt
3 Shrap Blast
4 Magma Jet
3 Hellspark Elemental
3 REB

1 Black Lotus
1 ruby
1 lotus petal
3 Chrome Mox
4 Fetchlands
6 Mountain
4 Red Artifact Lands

SB
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Flamebreak
1 Hellspark Elemental
2 Rack and Ruin
1 REB
4 ????

[Lurker101]

http://www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=37341.0
Here's a budget list with a decent draw engine that I came up with awhile ago. I would add Mogg Fanatics to it though as well as more artifact hate if your expecting lots of Tez and Ichorid. This list came before the recent resurgence of Ichorid and before Time Vault combo was so prevalent. Do with it what you want.

[Prospero]

The list needs Price of Progress.  That card is an absolute beating, seemingly always good for at least 4 damage.  Imagine resolving more than one when your opponent has two or three duals on the board.  It's better than Fireblast used to be.

I think that you'd be better off with the Goblins shell though (Lackey/Piledriver/Warchief/Ringleader with Tinkerer's in the main.)

[Bill Copes]

Sudden shock should probably be in here, too.  Split second is a huge effect.

[swawagon]

Hellspark Elemental
1R
Elemental
3/1, Trample, haste
At end of turn, sacrifice Hellspark Elemental.
Unearth 1R(1R: Return this card from your graveyard to play. It gains haste. Remove it from the game at end of turn or if it would leave play. Unearth only as a sorcery.)

6 damage in one card is the stuff burn decks might be looking for. It's not amazing, but probably deserves a shot.

Price of Progress, Mogg Fanatic are also probably strong enough overall. Smash to Smithereens is indeed interesting too. Price of Progress really has huge potential!!

I actually completely cut artifact acceleration (no moxen, no Lotus) and stuck to only Basic Mountains and Fetchlands for one list I built to make it as consistent and less susceptible to opposing; Wastelands, Null Rods, artifact hate... as possible. Chrome Mox seems especially poor in a burn deck.

You still have to carefully consider disruption (Wasteland, discard, Null Rod, counters, Pyrostatic Pillar, REBs... etc.) either in the sideboard or maindeck and I don't know the answer. Burn, by it's nature, will have some good and some bad matches.

With as much red mana available in this deck, Shattering Spree seems a better anti artifact card, beyond Smash to Smithereens.

Molten Disaster is also to be considered in the SB...

[honestabe]

Unfortunatly, I don't think burn is a viable vinatage deck

You're better off making this one legacy

[Mantis]

Seriously Burn us awful in Legacy, do you evem play that format? Good luck resolving your burn spells against CB/Top, burn is lile an awful combo deck in Legacy.

Anyway on topic I definately think Burn has potential. 4 Smash 2 Smittereens and 4 PoP seem like the driving force. I would also add 4 Null Rod to gain enough time to get there. Other than that I really think the list in the OP combined with the comme ts made and some decent testing could provide for a very solid list. Good luck!

[AmbivalentDuck]

Ankh of Mishra is classic anti-fetch tech.

[Pern]

OP's build reminds me of Burninator.
Burninator used to win in response to losing,
or tap out under its own Tangle Wire, so no sorceries.
Here's a build I haven't tinkered with in a while. Used to do OK.

17 Mountains
7 SoLoMoxen
1 Mana Crypt

4 Gorilla Shaman
4 Tangle Wire
2 Cursed Scroll
2 Grim Lavamancer

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Shrapnel Blast
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
3 Magma Jet
2 Sudden Shock
2 Wheel of Fate

SB
4 REB
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Shattering Spree
3 Blood Moon
1 Viashino Heretic

I'm coming back after a long time for a reunion tournament, and I've been thinking about this deck again.
Seems to me the Lavamancers could go for a couple of Smash to Smithereens.
I'd like to fit 3 Magus of the Moon and maybe some REB maindeck.
The scry from Magma Jet is excellent, and people seem to let Wheel resolve,
only to find that I've drawn 15 points of damage and am untapped.

What do people think about Tangle Wire in current Vintage?

[jamestosetti]

If you put some tarmogoyfs in the deck it will probably win you quite a few games. R/g beats is actually very effective against decent vintage players. Alot of people are still mastering their decks so hitting them with lightning bolts or killing their tezzeret with burn or creatures is very effective and just fast enough to win consistently. Tin street hooligan, tarmogoyf, null rod, oxidize, and price of progress can all get the job done. Pyrostatic pillar is a very good s/b card for storm and pyroclasm is great for fish. Playing some games and picking up on peoples tactics can give you some valuable information about what cards are good to be playing. When your not playing a teir 1 deck I think it's good to stay on top of the metagame and change your deck accordingly.

[nineisnoone]

outside of novelty, the only real reason to run a burn deck (+ hate) over an aggro deck (+ hate) is the added flexibility that burn cards give as removal.  most of your main match-ups will be defined by the hate cards you choose (REB, Pillar, Magus, etc). the burn will (barring a very good draw) always be less efficient means of killing the opponent so it only really earns its keep against random creatures.

and you should always run Tarmogoyf.  there will be match-ups where you are playing to not lose, and in this cases you need something that can win on it's own.  plus, its unlikely you will be able to burn out an opposing 'Goyf.