M14 Update Bulletin: Touch'n my Sylex

[MaximumCDawg]

So there's some interesting new erratas coming out with M14.  Read all about em here:

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/255c

The two functional changes are actually kind of interesting.  First, and less relevant for Vintage, is that Gaea's Touch is now getting an activated ability that puts a basic forest into play.  This means that if you bounce or blink the Touch, now you get another basic Forest drop.  I went through the Gatherer, and found the following cards that sort of interact with this:

Drake Familiar, Echoing Truth, Hoodwink, etc = You get another land drop if you have 1UGG to spare and two basic Forests in your hand!

Stern Proctor = Same for UUGG.

Remove Enchantments = Another land drop for WGG.  However, this is notably one of the first times Remove Enchantment has EVER been relevant to a Gatherer search.  Shine on, you wild and wacky card.

Astral Slide = New Forest drop for the cost of cycling.

Flicker = New Forest Drop for 1W. 

I can't find a good infinite combo here.  Might be something involving Orboro Breezecaller.  Still, it's interesting to think about.

Anyway, more interesting than that is the functional change to Golgothian Sylex, City in a Bottle, and Apocalypse Chime.  Now they hit any card that was _printed for the first time_ in the respective sets.  It doesn't matter what edition Trike you have; Sylex is gonna git it.

Here's a list of relevant cards each one hits:

Golgothian Sylex > (Hits a bunch of stuff commonly played as reprints now!)

Energy Flux
Mishra's Factory
Mishra's Workshop
Ornithopter
Triskeleon
Urzatron lands

City in a Bottle > (Pretty much unchanged)

Bazaar of Baghdad
City of Brass
Library of Alexandria

Apocalypse Chime > (I got nothing)

...Serrated Arrows?

So it looks like Sylex is actually quasi-interesting now, but at a casting cost of 4, I don't think it's playable.  Shame.

[Bill Copes]

So it looks like Sylex is actually quasi-interesting now, but at a casting cost of 4, I don't think it's playable.  Shame.

I picked up a couple just in case they have any implications in the shop mirror.  Don't see why if you'd use this, you'd ever have more than 2.

[Stormanimagus]

City in a Bottle was most definitely played, and now I could see it being even more consistently played as a sure-fire answer to not only Bazaar but City of Brass. Before you had to get the hapless opponent who only owned Arabian Nights Cities. Now it doesn't matter.

[AmbivalentDuck]

City in a Bottle was most definitely played, and now I could see it being even more consistently played as a sure-fire answer to not only Bazaar but City of Brass. Before you had to get the hapless opponent who only owned Arabian Nights Cities. Now it doesn't matter.

Shutting down half of their mana base along with their Bazaars is definitely appealing to Shops. I'm thinking it's time to pick up 4 of these.

[Smmenen]

These errata are insanely good.

City in a Bottle is the only card that prevents a bazaar from even being *played*.   It's now WAY better.

All proxied Bazaars will be hit by it, as will cards like Kird Ape (every edition), etc, and city of brass, every edition.

[Stormanimagus]

These errata are insanely good.

City in a Bottle is the only card that prevents a bazaar from even being *played*.   It's now WAY better.

All proxied Bazaars will be hit by it, as will cards like Kird Ape (every edition), etc, and city of brass, every edition.

Yeah, this has huge implications for the shop vs. dredge match-up. Since 8 cards from a typical dredge list now cannot be played this also means you can't just lay them down and wait for the kill card to take care of them. With a card like Needle on Bazaar you were able to use a land drop to play the Bazaar and then wait for the kill card to take care of the needle. Now you have to not only play a gemstone mine to find mana to kill city, but you also need to waste a turn to get to your land drop for Bazaar. That is insane.

-Storm

[Protoaddict]

I just got my 4 copies, just to have for the most part. I think there are a handful of fringe cards that this change to city hits well in legacy, but really this is a vintage change and it's probably worth it to shut down dredge in shops. I know I am going to have to rethink my list a bit to maybe drop city and run gemstone mine instead

The biggest thing here I think is that this is an answer that cannot be misstepped, and much like Rest in Peace once it hits play the damage is already done. Outside of shops it is also a tool that works in other decks that that cannot use grafdiggers cage (oath).

I think it is an important change, if only because it may just get people to not get greedy with city of brass.

[KingSquee]

I guess this explains why somebody snatched up the playset of Golgothian Sylexes that had been collecting e-dust on the eBay store I manage for over a year now. Was it you, Proto? :p

Obviously City in a Bottle gets better against Dredge as it now no-sir's all flavors of City of Brass. But is that enough for it to warrant any sideboard space in a competitive Vintage deck? I still vote no. If enough people try anyway, City of Brass is easily replaced with Gemstone Mine, Tarnished Citadel, or some other rainbow land.

Though I don't recall this issue ever coming up in an actual tournament, I'm pretty sure proxy Bazaars would get nerfed under the old rules. At least, that would be my ruling.

[Stormanimagus]

I guess this explains why somebody snatched up the playset of Golgothian Sylexes that had been collecting e-dust on the eBay store I manage for over a year now. Was it you, Proto? :p

Obviously City in a Bottle gets better against Dredge as it now no-sir's all flavors of City of Brass. But is that enough for it to warrant any sideboard space in a competitive Vintage deck? I still vote no. If enough people try anyway, City of Brass is easily replaced with Gemstone Mine, Tarnished Citadel, or some other rainbow land.

Though I don't recall this issue ever coming up in an actual tournament, I'm pretty sure proxy Bazaars would get nerfed under the old rules. At least, that would be my ruling.

I think it should have been played in shops before and now it will be even more a sure thing. It hoses bazaar AND 4 lands that would help to cast answers. I'll gladly have dredge players switch to tarnished citadel if I'm the shop player cause now they are that much closer to losing the damage race. That absolutely CAN become a factor.

-Storm

[Cruel Ultimatum]

I guess this explains why somebody snatched up the playset of Golgothian Sylexes that had been collecting e-dust on the eBay store I manage for over a year now. Was it you, Proto? :p

Obviously City in a Bottle gets better against Dredge as it now no-sir's all flavors of City of Brass. But is that enough for it to warrant any sideboard space in a competitive Vintage deck? I still vote no. If enough people try anyway, City of Brass is easily replaced with Gemstone Mine, Tarnished Citadel, or some other rainbow land.

Though I don't recall this issue ever coming up in an actual tournament, I'm pretty sure proxy Bazaars would get nerfed under the old rules. At least, that would be my ruling.

I agree, wasn't good enough before and it still isn't.

And yes, proxy bazaars get killed by city in a bottle under the old rules.

[Bill Copes]

I guess this explains why somebody snatched up the playset of Golgothian Sylexes that had been collecting e-dust on the eBay store I manage for over a year now. Was it you, Proto? :p

Obviously City in a Bottle gets better against Dredge as it now no-sir's all flavors of City of Brass. But is that enough for it to warrant any sideboard space in a competitive Vintage deck? I still vote no. If enough people try anyway, City of Brass is easily replaced with Gemstone Mine, Tarnished Citadel, or some other rainbow land.

Though I don't recall this issue ever coming up in an actual tournament, I'm pretty sure proxy Bazaars would get nerfed under the old rules. At least, that would be my ruling.

Agreed.  I wouldn't play it unless I was expecting the meta to be 80% dredge, which I can't see ever happening outside of someone's basement.  I can't see how it's good against any other deck.

But wait . . . what is the murmuring I hear in the hills . . .



OH GOD.  ALL OF THE MOUNTAINS ARE DEAD. (jk)

[MaximumCDawg]

You jest, but all WotC had to do was overlook that one issue and say that any card "printed" in a set would be hosed... and then City in a Bottle would become Jem: Truly, truly, truly outrageous.

And the thing is, since there were no basics in Antiquities or Homelands, this wouldn't actually break anything.  It would just make City of Brass worth $100.00

[TheWhiteDragon]

I guess this explains why somebody snatched up the playset of Golgothian Sylexes that had been collecting e-dust on the eBay store I manage for over a year now. Was it you, Proto? :p

Obviously City in a Bottle gets better against Dredge as it now no-sir's all flavors of City of Brass. But is that enough for it to warrant any sideboard space in a competitive Vintage deck? I still vote no. If enough people try anyway, City of Brass is easily replaced with Gemstone Mine, Tarnished Citadel, or some other rainbow land.

Though I don't recall this issue ever coming up in an actual tournament, I'm pretty sure proxy Bazaars would get nerfed under the old rules. At least, that would be my ruling.

I think it should have been played in shops before and now it will be even more a sure thing. It hoses bazaar AND 4 lands that would help to cast answers. I'll gladly have dredge players switch to tarnished citadel if I'm the shop player cause now they are that much closer to losing the damage race. That absolutely CAN become a factor.

-Storm

It's still not a great card.  2 mana to hit 4 cards.  City will just become gemstone mine and they already run undiscovered paradise to get bang off bloodghasts. Grafdiggers and needle are just better answers and more versatile in a sb. Often by the time I hit 2 mana in a non-shop deck against dredge, I'm already dead. Turn 0 or 0/1cc answers or it's gg before I get a second land drop.  And when you consider other decks like oath, burning tendrils, bomberman, etc...i'd rather the more versatile sb cards. Shops also already have spheres and 5 strips...so it's not like they really need much beyond grafdigger anyway.

[gkraigher]

For starters, good work on reading the fine lines and finding this stuff out.  I had no idea about this change until i started reading the forum.  

I was running 1 city in a bottle in my MUD board, and will continue to do so.  It might force dredge players to gemstone mine, and while that is a downgrade for them, it's not the end of the world either.  

the antinquities hoser is still pretty bad.  MUD would never want that for a mirror match, and most other decks would prefer shatterstorm to it if you purpose was to destroy MUD.  

The argument for pithing needle over city in a bottle is a good one, and it is much more versatile in hitting auriok salvagers or jace, but city is often a 2 for 1 against dredge if it isn't shutting them down entirely.   

[Varal]

I don't know when they did the change but they've changed the Oracle text of the expansion cards. If anyone was willing to destroy Dredge, you have a new tool.

[TheWhiteDragon]

A new tool, but an inferior one.  Planar Void was always a tool, and half the cost...yet totally unplayable.