Oatmeal

[Preacher]

I've played TnT in the last three tournaments and to be honest, I'm really bored with it. It wins (though I still haven't won the tournament with it but I've made Top 4 each time), but that's it. Therefore I decided to play something new.

A while back, I was one of those people who always played their own decks. Copying a netdeck was the gravest sin anyone could do. Therefore, I decided to build something new, but good enough to play in tournaments.

What to build? First I got this really crazy idea about combining Parfait and TnT, with Parfait engine drawing cards and creatures for the kill. Then I remembered the Smokestack decks that did well somewhere and decided that would be fun as well. I was talking about this with Andy (rozetta on TMD) over a pint and we came up with the following deck.

I present to you...

Oatmeal v1.0
-------------
4x Sphere of Resistance
4x Tangle Wire
4x Smokestack
2x Time Vault
1x Memory Jar

4x Argivian Find
4x Land Tax
3x Scroll Rack

1x Seal of Cleansing
1x Aura of Silence
1x Humility
1x Moat
1x Forcefield
1x Balance

1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Timetwister

1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Black Lotus
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Sol Ring

11x Plains
1x Island
4x Mishra's Workshop
1x Strip Mine

We did the first playtesting today and I have to say I was very positively surprised. It has a very good record againt Keeper, it did okay versus Groatog (though that has probably something to do with the fact that neither of us can play it really well) and the few aggro decks we tried didn't pose a problem at all. The most fun games I had when I played against my friend's "total hate"-deck, which includes 4 null rods, Auras and other nasty stuff. I still won most of them, though the deck lacked threats so it was easy.

The synergy is quite good: Find gets almost every card back, Sphere + Tax is good (opponent has to play land if he wants to do something), Sphere is good against everything, you can sac your land for smokestack and then Tax etc.

Some notes on card choices:

Forcefield: First this was a second Humility, but as I saw my friend with a Forcefield, I decided to trade it from him  I'm actually quite happy with it, as you can play it with Workshop mana and it's old and cool. It's also quite good against Groatog, as we discovered.

Timetwister: The lone blue card. To be honest, I don't think if it's that good. It's really great to have in the opening hand with moxes or Lotus, but that's not reason enough to keep it in. I think might cut it for creature defense, especially because I don't own the rest of the blue power.

Aura of Silence: double white is bad. Maybe it should be a second Seal of Cleansing.

About sideboard... I don't know. I think Orim's Chants should definitely be in, as they're good against multiple decks. Against creatures maybe run another Humility? Other than that, it's totally undecided. I'll probably end up running something made just before the tournament  

The biggest bad side of the deck is that if it doesn't get a good start, it's going to have trouble. But then again, this goes for every deck. Also, I haven't tested against Suicide or other decks with a lot of disruption.. my monoblack Chains of Mephistopheles deck got it's ass handed back to it but it sucks anyway and doesn't run creatures so you can't really compare the two.

Any ideas/flames/comments? (I bet there's a really obvious flaw or then I just had lucky draws today )

[ZoneSeek]

First thing, I would like to point out that this deck does interest me. It looks like it has some potential, though it is a very awkward mix of cards. It seems that there is a sense of synergy throughout this deck, which I can commend.

I'm running short on time, but here are my concerns:

Timetwister looks sub-optimal. If you're going to run any blue, you might as well run Ancestral Recall, or if you don't have it (which I presume you don't), possibly try Tinker.

I'm also very wary about your kill condition, which I presume is decking through Time Vault. Since you are running Humility AND Moat, it would be nigh-impossible to get a reliable creature threat. I'm sure there's something out there.

Good luck with the deck!

[Preacher]

Yeah, I'll cut the Twister, as it belongs in my Zoo anyway. That means I have one slot free..

I never had a problem with the kill condition today, though some of it might be due to people scooping in boring situations before the game is resolved. Karn might be fun as well, but unfortunately then I'd have to drop Humility and Moat and my metagame is loads of (partially scrubby) aggro. I was thinking of sideboarding more Humilities.

[Aroxisis]

You might want a quicker kill condition so you can finish matches.   So why not fill the timetwister slot with another parfait card: Sacred Mesa? It is faster, and you can just out number them under Humility or fly over Moat.

[Jacob Orlove]

Another option would be some artifact that deals damage without requiring a lot of mana or anything like that. Perhaps time bomb/zuran orb or searing tongs or something.

Edit: or Black Vise.

But yeah, Mesa would probably be quicker if you added a Claws of Gix or two to make sure that your tokens aren't stuck in a position where they can't attack.

[Disgustipated Reflections]

This deck wants Black Vise.  That would give you artifact kill for no mana, not to mention, it is a house against control.

Very cool deck!!    

[Methuselahn]

I've never tested this deck, but, I would rather splash green for fastbond before timetwister (you even got a tutor for it).  Possibly Blood Moon over both.  Have you tested either?

[rozetta]

Having played against this deck (and a few games with it) all day yesterday, I have some feedback. I was mostly playing Keeper, but I also playtested a few other decks including groatog and mono-black.

Firstly, this deck is an absolute beating. The synergy between it's cards is as good as it looks on paper:

- land tax cannot be played around, since the deck can and often will resolve an early smokestack, putting the opponent in a lose-lose situation. Not to mention, land tax is a cheap permanent that can be sacced to the smokestack later.

- from a control perspective, the deck has almost too many threats to counter. Sphere and smokestack definitely fall into this category. Land tax, scroll rack and tangle wire are situationally must-counter threats also. I've seen this deck put out a lot of turn 1 smokestacks which is game in a lot of situations.

I don't think we saw the twister all day and it's true that it probably won't help in the long run, so cutting it is not a problem. Actually the fastbond idea is not at all bad. It's another cheap permanent and will let you unload a ton of plains onto the board if needed.

On the humility note, I think it's a little slow. I'd imagine that cursed totems in the sideboard would work versus things that might hose this deck like gorilla shaman or devout witness. It would also shut down psychatogs, morphlings, etc. The forcefield was indeed good, so it should stay.

Actually sacred mesa might be decent in that slot also because it has additional synergy with the smokestack and tangle wire. I'd think replacing humility and moat with 2 of these is an idea. Also, you can go into beatdown mode early, since you'll have plenty of colourless mana and a few white giving you the ability to put out multiple tokens a turn even under tangle wire.

We talked about black vise, but there really weren't that many games where it would have been useful, even against control, since control empties it's hand quite quickly trying to take care of the early threats and will anyway scoop when it's under the lock.

Aura of silence should be in the sideboard against anything with enchantments that might give this a hard time. Definitely replace it with another seal of cleansing. The seal is also a pain for Keeper, since you can fizzle their shattering pulse or allay.

So my suggestions are:

- Moat + Sacred Mesa
- Humility + Sacred Mesa
- Aura of Silence + Seal of Cleansing
- Timetwister + Fastbond
- Island + Forest

Sideboard thoughts:
Seal of Cleansing (parfait, null rods)
Aura of Silence (parfait, enchantress, etc.)
Cursed Totem (mox monkey, psychatog, etc.)
Zuran Orb (sligh)
Swords to Plowshares (TnT, tog, etc)
Orim's Chant (control)

[Preacher]

If we drop the Moat and the Humility, it'll be easy to play Karn as well. Nothing like having a bunch of Smokestacks coming your way... Also, I have a soft spot in my heart for Titania's Song but I guess that's a bit too casual

[ZoneSeek]

Indeed. I am impressed with the rate at which this deck is growing. Have you put any more thought into my suggestion of Tinker? Also, another brief note: Karn definitely looks like a very solid and likely very fast win condition for this deck. Your sideboarding options are typical and obvious but never-the-less solid, at least on paper. I can especially envision Swords being your best friend.

About your mana base: It looks very solid, but would any cards like Mox Diamond and City of Traitors fit? City of Traitors has obvious synergy with Land Tax, although you've already mentioned you have little trouble applying pressure to tax.

Nothing much else here. I'm very interested in this deck and I may give it a shuffle or two on Apprentice to see how it flows.

[urza's child]

I am also very interested in this deck. When I see this deck I compare it to Duct Tape, because in my opinion thats the best Smokestack deck out there right now. I REALLY like the tax/rack engine, I think its great. I think you should take humility out of the main deck, but definately move them to the sideboard. I also think that with Karn, which without the humility and moat main deck should definately be in, Sacred Mesa is not needed, atleast for main deck. Here is my proposal to the deck list:

Main Deck:
-1 Moat
-1 Humility
-1 Timetwister
-1 Island
+1 Plains
+1 Black Vise
+2 Karn, Silver Golem

Sideboard:

3 Swords to Plowshares (Maybe 4? I don't know I'm not good with white)
4 Orim's Chant
1 Seal of Cleansing (Maybe go up to 2? There's one main deck though)
2 Cursed Totem (Morphling, Welder, etc)
1 Zuran Orb (Sligh)
1 Humility (For decks like TnT, or very fast and large beats)
1 Moat (For decks without flying)
2 Sacred Mesa (When sideing in moat)

[Preacher]

Unfortunately I don't have time to playtest this further, as I'll be away for a weeking doing my civil service.. This is the list rozetta came up with:


//NAME: Oatmeal
SB:  4 Orim's Chant
SB:  1 Seal of Cleansing
SB:  2 Zuran Orb
SB:  3 Cursed Totem
SB:  2 Aura of Silence
SB:  3 Swords to Plowshares
        1 Library of Alexandria
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Mana Vault
        1 Mana Crypt
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Fastbond
        1 Enlightened Tutor
        1 Balance
        2 Seal of Cleansing
        4 Scroll Rack
        4 Land Tax
        4 Argivian Find
        2 Karn, Silver Golem
        1 Memory Jar
        2 Time Vault
        4 Smokestack
        4 Tangle Wire
        4 Sphere of Resistance
        1 Forest
        11 Plains
        4 Mishra's Workshop

I put it together and it's definitely better than the first one. The fastbond is especially good, it allows you to do some very broken things.

I was thinking of Ensnaring Bridge. It's workshoppable, it can be tapped for Tangle Wire, it shuts down most aggro decks.. it might prove to be better than Humility, because it's a lot faster. The downside is that it wouldn't work with the Karn (unless you tax and not play anything).

Also, with Fastbond, Zorb maindeck might be good enough.

[Tamer]

karn is ok with bridge, you just have to play a smokestack  and sacrifice the bridge when you have board control

[rozetta]

Isn't bridge bad synergy with land tax?

[waSP]

This deck appears to have a massive weakness.  Opposing Goblin Welders should just wreck it.  With only smokestack and balance to deal with them you are in trouble.  As soon as you lose 1 artifact to the stack, a wire goes past 0, or your opponent shatters something (via shaman, uktabi, or other methods) you will lose huge tempo.  MD swords might shore up this weakness without hurting the deck too terribly.

[urza's child]

After playing this deck, I realised something. Fastbond is more useless than 4 swords in a mono black deck. It has never helped me once, and only has HORRIBLE synergy with land tax. I'm going to remove it, but I don't know what for, maybe blue power or even red splash for welder, because theyre just THAT important

EDIT: I worked for a short time on this variant with waSP, tell me what everyone thinks about it

//NAME: Alpha Shift
        1 Black Lotus
        1 Sol Ring
        1 Mox Jet
        1 Mox Ruby
        1 Mox Pearl
        1 Mox Sapphire
        1 Mox Emerald
        1 Mana Crpyt
        4 Mishra's Workshop
        1 Balance
        3 Sphere of Resistance
        1 Memory Jar
        2 Time Vault
        4 Smokestack
        4 Tangle Wire
SB:  2 Sacred Mesa
SB:  1 Moat
SB:  2 Cursed Totem
        1 Zuran Orb
SB:  1 Zuran Orb
SB:  4 Orim's Chant
SB:  3 Swords to Plowshares
        1 Strip Mine
        2 Mountain
        1 Wheel of Fortune
        6 Plains
SB:  1 Aura of Silence
        1 Enlightened Tutor
        1 Forcefield
        4 Plateau
SB:  1 Seal of Cleansing
        4 Argivian Find
        4 Land Tax
        3 Scroll Rack
        4 Goblin Welder
        2 Karn, Silver Golem

This version is still untested, but it really loses so little and gains so much

[Vegeta2711]

After playing a little bit of Anhk Sligh vs Oatmeal with Zoneseek, I'm wondering how you consistently beat Sligh. To be fair one time he kind of messed up and didn't grab a Time Vault which would've been game. I mean in response to Tangle I simply tap for mana and keep hitting you with instant burn. Fireblast is also fun to cast, since even with Sphere it only costs 1 or 2 mana and Smokestack is going to nail my lands anyways.  

I mean a Conversion or some Samite Minstration's might be nice here.

Also after playing with him, I think his idea of replacing the green with Ancestal and Tinker should be looked into. On a sidenote wouldn't Solitary Confinement and Time Vault be kinda nice? ^^

[urza's child]

Tinker and Recall would be a huge plus, but would a draw seven, and one of the most important cards in any workshop deck, goblin welder's be better than those few cards? IMO they sure are...

[Vegeta2711]

Never played your version and was more commenting on the general builds presented here.

As an aside note for you though. I would try cutting something other than Sphere and Jar. 3 Racks I can see, but 4 Sphere's is pretty important vs Sligh and Jar is also basically a draw 7. I mean you even have Welders to recur it.

[urza's child]

i didnt cut a jar.. and in my metagame other things are more important than 4 spheres, so maybe for your environment its not, but for me it is

[Vegeta2711]

Ok. Got it. I would stil question not running Jar though.

[The Blob]

If you're still looking for a possible alternative draw spell, you could port over Meditate from the other versions because of its obvious synergies (albeit when you might already be winning)

[urza's child]

the draw spell really isnt the problem, we have the tax/rack engine, and when i play this deck usually dont even need it. The real problem is
1. dealing with artifacts in the graveyard other than find
2. dealing with opposing artifacts
3. dealing with opposing welders

These have been my largest problems, and adding in welders (and wheel of fortune which is GOLD) have fixed all of these problems

[rozetta]

On the sphere issue, remember it also forces your opponent to play more land, allowing you to tax. This is one reason we liked it so much with the tax/rack engine.

[urza's child]

Quote (rozetta @ April 09 2003,00:47)On the sphere issue, remember it also forces your opponent to play more land, allowing you to tax. This is one reason we liked it so much with the tax/rack engine.

It does, sometimes, and not really against many decks. Remember that it also forces YOU to play lands yourself. And if you're playing against a deck with full SoLoMoxen, then its really not as big of a problem as normal. I also find myself not being able to do what I want to when I lay down an early sphere, which is another reason why I only run 3. In my version I can weld them out at EOT, or during my turn when needed, whenever. People really shouldn't be worried about the spheres, but about the problems I originally addresses, which are:

1. dealing with artifacts in the graveyard other than find
2. dealing with opposing artifacts
3. dealing with opposing welders

I feel it necssary to go into more depth with these.

1. In my metagame, I have a lot of GAT, which = a lot of counter, so when they counter my smokestacks, scroll racks, etc, I need a way (uncounterable) to get them back, and welders are that answer.

2. Its pretty self explanatory, most decks never have no artifacts in the graveyard, especially with Wheel of Fortune and Memory Jar in the deck.

3. I have about 3-6 TnT at about every tournament I go to, and who knows how many smokestack decks will be popping up, with welders. When they have a welder out, and you dont, they just weld out your important cards, like karn, stack, rack, etc, and you have no way to get them back constantly.

I suggest you playtest either my version with welders, or your own, but with welders. Give them a try and you'll see how powerful they are in this deck.

On a side note, I just thought of something, with a rack in the GY and one in play, if you use the one in play, get some sort of draw 7, or have one ready, cast or use the draw 7, and rack again with the one in your graveyard that you can weld back in, thats A LOT of card advantage! Wont happen too often but I just thought it would be uber cool  

[Preacher]

Hi again, I played a lot today and did some major tweaking. Also, we renamed the deck because there's a deck called Oathmeal and it's too close.. we decided to stick with the original name idea for it: Porridge (it sounds better anyway). This is my current list:

Porridge v1.1
-------------
4x Sphere of Resistance
4x Tangle Wire
4x Smokestack
1x Memory Jar
2x Time Vault
1x Karn, Silver Golem

4x Goblin Welder

4x Land Tax
3x Scroll Rack
2x Argivian Find

1x Seal of Cleansing
1x Aura of Silence
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Balance
1x Forcefield

1x Mana Vault
1x Mana Crypt
1x Sol Ring
1x Mox Pearl
1x Mox Emerald
1x Mox Jet
1x Mox Ruby
1x Mox Sapphire
1x Black Lotus

4x Mishra's Workshop
10x Plains
2x Mountain
1x Strip Mine

Sideboard:
Not finished yet, but will probably include at least

4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Seal of Cleansing
2x Humility
1x Moat
Blood Moons?

The main decks I played against today were rozetta's Turboland (which I promptly trounced) and a Survival/Shapeshifter/Phage-deck, to which I lost three games out of five because I didn't have enough removal. I also beat Oath and slaughtered a T2 goblin deck (no surprise there).

Some points:

The Welders - You're all right, they're invaluable. I will never again play a Workshop deck without them. The downside is that Balance will not necessarily kill all opposing creatures (but then again, you can chump block with the Welders so that's hardly a problem)

The almost total absence of creature removal - I've mostly tuned this deck when playing against control and combo so I have little experience on how it handles against fast aggro decks. It will probably suck royally... I decided to keep the Forcefield maindeck to combat Psychatogs and Negators, as well as other random creatures. Besides, it's oldschool

Karn - Never got to use his ability, but I bet he's really useful against aggro.

Aura of Silence - Double white is bad. I might make it another Seal of Cleansing and put it on the side.

Anyone got ideas if it's possible to play this without the Time Vaults? Unfortunately I don't have any and they're difficult to get, especially here where there are very few OOPs in circulation. I'm also lacking four Moxes, but I can borrow three so I will have everything except the Pearl (figures, the one I'd really need). I guess another Karn and possibly a Black Vise might be used to replace them?

[urza's child]

preacher: im glad someone finally saw my logic about the welders, but i have a few comments on your build.

Do you have a meta with lota of enchantments? because basically what I see your deck as taking out 2 finds for 1 seal and 1 aura, which i personally dont like, at all. I really love having 4 finds, they get back everything and anything just about.

and about your sideboard:

i would REALLY ass 2 sacred mesa, to have a kind of parfait transitional sb, against control and such. theyre really great. also with orim's chant, theyre necessary in the sideboard IMO against control or stuff like GAT that kills in one turn.

Im currently away on vacation (aruba right now   ) and only got a little time to write this but when i get back (friday) if you have AIM or MSN, id love to discuss this deck more in depth with you

[Preacher]

I've already cut the Aura for a Wheel, which is just amazing, but I need to play some form of enchantment removal maindeck (it's a personal preference of mine). Also, my metagame has a few Keepers, at least two or three Groatogs, a Parfait lookalike, Oaths etc, so they're really good in most matchups.

I will most likely play the Mesas in sideboard, because Karn doesn't go too well with Humility and I feel that the deck needs more kill conditions than just the Vaults (especially since I don't have them yet). To be honest, I haven't tested with sideboard yet because I don't have too much time to play Magic at the moment (got my finals coming etc)

There's a tournament coming next Sunday, but as I still need some cards (I'm missing Pearl, Emerald, Ruby and both Time Vaults), I'll go with a modified Lime Parfait. I'd love to have a discussion with you, but unfortunately I'm not home on Friday.. my AIM handle is MOTLPreacher, just add me to your list and ping me when I'm online.

[urza's child]

well you're definately right, 4 finds are way too much, ive cut down to 2. But personally i like MD aura more than MD seal

[rozetta]

I think Mirrodin could bring something to this deck, for instance, charbelcher (similar to how it would be run in parfait) and chalice of the void. Maybe it's time to revive the idea on the boards (even though it's creator has all but quit magic).

Well, it's worth a try, so anyone got any thoughts?