Article -- Workshop and CHalice philosophy

[Rakso]

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=5908

Quote Suppose R&D wanted to make a card that "forces decks to change their spell mix," or their designers to think outside the box and not necessarily opt for all the broken cards on the restricted list simply by virtue of their brokenness. R&D wanted this card to essentially "fix" all their old blunders to some extent by making the very thing that is desirable about those spells (their inexpensive costs, out of proportion with their over-powered effects) less desirable. To make it less of a knee-jerk to include the power 9 as the skeleton for every deck. To make "off-color Moxen," perhaps the best example of brokenness taking priority over flavor, seem a little more risky. If this is the role they had in mind for the Chalice, then I'd argue that the more simple-minded and independent of player experience, intelligence, or cash flow, the better.

The fact that you can bet you'll see four of these in every unpowered sideboard means that Type 1 will change. You are keenly aware of this change and you have described its effects extremely well. What you have not done, however, is to convince me that this change is necessarily bad. You make no reasoned argument as to why it's bad, other than to badmouth the card as simplistic and mindless. Playing Chalice on principle is no more mindless than playing the power nine on principle. Are you claiming that all hosers are bad? Clearly they're made for very specific threats. I just see the Chalice as addressing the "dude with all the magic cards I can't afford" threat. Usually I, too, am that dude, but I still see the hoser as interesting and well done by R&D. Convince me otherwise.

Joe Klesert

[MoreFling]

Making death threaths to people with foil Merchant Scrolls Rakso?  

Anyway, essentialy near the end your saying every deck will be running Chalice, or simply Anti-Chalice (or just scoop to a well-placed one). Wouldn't that warrant restriction of Chalice itself, if the format is moving from Chalice vs anti-Chalice? Format defining cards should only go so far right?

I'd really like to know what you think about that, and at that, the rest of the community.

[Magimaster]

Dead on about Workshop! I wish I could articulate myself like that...

I remember a year or so ago (maybe more), budget decks were actually viable. Sure, they weren't favorites, but with proper deckbuilding, metagaming, and play skill, you could do reasonably well, top 8 and occasionally sneak a win. Nowadays I don't think that's possible.

The "competitive decks" have so outdistanced themselves from the "entry level decks" enough I think that eventually people will be driven away from joining T1. The one-time entrance fee has gone up too high.

*quick note: the people who keep saying "STFU n00b", "go buy some cards", or "that's just the way it is" probably got their expensive cards before they were expensive.

There is still a decent portion of tournament entries where people play "budget" decks. How long will they continue to get ass-raped by the big decks until they realize they have no chance, and just give up? Pretty soon, the only people playing T1 are the people who were lucky or smart enough to acquire power + big cards before this massive inflation of card prices.

And yet, here and there we see the following complaints:

We need more innovation, more people should play type 1, WotC doesn't pay enough attention to us...(insert argument directly/indirectly caused by a lack of T1 participation here)...

[TracerBullet]

Quote the concept is so important I dedicated three columns to it ("Counting Tempo").

I wouldn't exactly call dedicating three columns to it "so important".  In fact, I'm rather personally insulted that you haven't dedicated three columns to me.

Where are my three columns?

Edit- Oh wait, we have standards on this website.


Your sports analogy is rather fallous- the NBA is basically team of one star+four vs team of one star+four, and it's ratings and shares have gone up exponentially, even since the Bulls era.  Perhaps it's not the battle of single superstars that's interesting.  Perhaps it's the battle of supporting cast.

Perhaps it's seeing which deck can make the most out of cards that would otherwise be deemed crap (Volrath's Shapeshifter, Lion's Eye Diamond, and Deep Anal come to mind).

I personally think it's a rather boring metagame myself, but I figured I'd play devil's advocate so long as I'm posting somthing I probably shouldn't be.\n\n

[jntemp777]

I liked the article.  

I'd like to say something to all the Workshop(s) owners of TMD.  There's a tremendous economic incentive for Workshop owners to continue to deny that Workshop does not require restriction.  Isn't it time to just admit that the Chalice+Workshop interaction is just plain stoopid-broken?  Look, I own some Workshops myself and I know what will happen to their value post restriction, but shouldn't we bite the bullet for the health of the damn metagame and just agree that Workshop should be restricted?

[Toad]

Quote (jntemp777 @ Oct. 09 2003,10:36)Isn't it time to just admit that the Chalice+Workshop interaction is just plain stoopid-broken?

I'd believe you when you'll give us serious arguments here. Personnal feelings are not enough to warrant a restriction. Cards that deserve restriction are those which distorb the environment. I don't see Workshop decks Top8ing everywhere in the World. There was NO Prison decks in last Duelmen's Top10, but 20 Bazaars. Who cares about Bazaar? Isn't it just time to admit that the Bazaar+Squee interaction is just plain stoopid-broken?

[MoreFling]

Quote Cards that deserve restriction are those which distorb the environment.

Actually, I disagree. Cards that deserve restriction are also those which are in every deck. Now Jacob pointed out to me in some other thread that this would include Wasteland, but that is actually not true. A lot of decks play Underground Sea eh?
Anyway, to explain the point in case, is that by the looks of it, Chalice is going to be in EVERY deck. Any deck not sporting chalice or a good compliment of hate against it, is not going to compete in any serious enviroment anymore. So by Rakso's logic, the meta would turn into Chalice vs Anti-Chalice. That is enough reason to restrict it.

A good example of said practise is Rishadan Port in MBC. Now I'd be the first to admit that it wasn't a very exiting format to begin with, but Rishadan Port was not distorting the metagame. Every deck was just playing 4 copies of the card, and it was stupid.

Back to you.

[Cartman316 _420]

Quote (MoreFling @ Oct. 09 2003,00:34)Making death threaths to people with foil Merchant Scrolls Rakso?  

Anyway, essentialy near the end your saying every deck will be running Chalice, or simply Anti-Chalice (or just scoop to a well-placed one). Wouldn't that warrant restriction of Chalice itself, if the format is moving from Chalice vs anti-Chalice? Format defining cards should only go so far right?

I'd really like to know what you think about that, and at that, the rest of the community.

MoreFling and whoever reads this:

Honestly, I agree with the statement that Chalice needs to have something done with it, restrict it or something around it. It is not healthy for the enviroment at all. It hoses 90% of all aggressive decks (and I know this will sound like something someone will/has said many times I bet very soon) which are being played right now. Half of the other type one decks are now shit on also. The format will become almost Rock/Paper/Scizzors then.

You get chalice, you win
your whole deck is chalice hate, derf
your opponent doesn't draw it and u win

When a card does shake an enviroment this much, as chalice can/will do, it's  time

As MoreFling said, rishadan port, but is not a fair comparassion though. Academy would be more fair. The problem with port is you got it 1st, you won because you could cast lin sivvi first and search first.

When academy hit, it was I FUCK ACADEMY or ACADEMY.decs

honestly, this may have sounded repeative, I'm sorry, my 2 cents.

As for workshop, undecided for now

[Bastian]

The best example of why workshop decks are not really degenerate could be the world championships, which had a healthy metagame with diverse decks making it into the top 8. It's not workshop that's too good. But Chalice is.

If a single card can turn a whole format around to who plays chalice, who doesn't and who gets it first, then it's already a format distorting card because it will affect the way everything's played and decks will either play it or be playing against it.

Workshop may seem a threat right now because workshop decks are those more readily able to abuse the chalice, and even though workshop is a pretty good card it's not a dominating one like the chalice will probably be.

I have already seen good comments made on COTV some against some stating the positive impact, but the whole feeling that it's just a plain bad card for the format remains. I bet most of you feel like this about it. What remains to see is to check just how bad it will be.

Personally I think it will end up restricted.

Magimaster: I make yours my words, I couldn't agree with someone on this subject more than you

[VideoGameBoy]

Here's a simple poser - with unrestricted Chalice, how much of the current B&R list looks silly?

Quote If you look at every member of the restricted list, they have one common denominator: They break a fundamental rule of the game too well.

Blatantly fallacious - and you keep referring to "fundamental rule of the game".  This is type 1, where there are obviously no fundamental rules given the current card pool.\n\n

[Bastian]

The card pool has a list of restricted and banned cards that break too many rules of the game. Why should the Chalice be left alone unrestricted when the others are not?

[LemanRuss]

There is no "fundamental rule", but there is some rules anyway. Giving 3 manas without any drawback or card disadvantage looks insane. I agree that the sentence "I dislike playing against prison decks" is not an argument for restricting the Workshop, but this one: "I like too much my Workshop deck to agree with Workshop restriction, even if this card does not fit to a healthy metagame" is not a better one. I loved Oscar's "Sapphire mine" exemple !

I don’t know if the Workshop is really insane, but I aggre with Oscar about the “healthiest type one period”, which ended with the rise of GAT. Even before Mirrodin, how many competitive decks were in the top tiers? Not enough for me.

And concerning the Chalice, it is obvious that this card must me restricted even if the Workshop is not, for all the reasons developed by Oscar Tan. And I too, hate working on my new Keeper decklist. I think that the metagame is going to become more and more ridiculous…

[aargyle]

If we want Chalice restricted, why not Powder Keg? If we are complaining about being forced to play diverse decks, we might as well complain about keg destroying 10 land, white weenie, and other (granted lower tier) creature beat decks. Why the double standard, it's all right to hose creature weenie decks, but be damned if other deck types have problems? Anyway....

From the article: "Undercosted tutoring is another [target for banning] because it becomes too easy to set up a combo, and that's everything from Demonic Consultation to Entomb."

And all workshop decks have four workshops and four of what else?

Let me think a minute......

Oh, that thing that costs one red and _tutors_ out of the graveyard, right?

Let's not kid ourselves, it's a tutor. Yes, you have to get things in the graveyard first, but after that you are set. And in the graveyard in the fist place is never that hard.

Yes, workshop decks are harder for chalice to shut down (and I'm totally for a chalice restrict, but that's another story). But if people are worried about workshop decks becoming to strong, there is another target that can be looked at to put on the restricted list.

If only WotC will look at the possibility of creatures. It is a hit that allows workshop decks to survive, but hurts them enough to possibly drop a tier.

And Workshops being restricted may not happen for one other reason: WotC would have to admit it made a mistake on the R/B list. The environment has changed much since the unrestriction of Workshop, but the rerestriction would just yell out 'Look at this! We goofed! Berserk will be re-restricted soon as well!'\n\n

[ctthespian]

Quote (LemanRuss @ Oct. 09 2003,06:35)There is no "fundamental rule", but there is some rules anyway. Giving 3 manas without any drawback or card disadvantage looks insane. I agree that the sentence "I dislike playing against prison decks" is not an argument for restricting the Workshop, but this one: "I like too much my Workshop deck to agree with Workshop restriction, even if this card does not fit to a healthy metagame" is not a better one. I loved Oscar's "Sapphire mine" exemple !

Rakso's example of the sapphire mine is a bit exaggerated.  That would be far more powerful of a card than workshop.  Artifacts by their very nature are expensive and there effects can not be compared to the power of blue.  That much blue mana with all of the deck manipulation would be degenerate.  Workshops do not have any big disadvantages; however they are still limited to only artifact spells.  Workshop however is still a powerful card.

With a heavily artifact dominant set coming out, Workshop is going to take some heat.  However, have decks running 4 workshops been as dominant as the TOG variants or Academy of days past?  I think not.  If workshop warrants restriction how come we don't see workshop decks winning tournaments consistently?  Stax, TnT, welder MUD, and even mono brown decks should be by all accounts holding reign over the tournament scene because of Workshop's degenerate power.  Why are they not?  It could be because they are so rare and limited in number that it is hard to find 4 of them to use in a deck.  Even with proxy tournaments you don't see many decks packing 4 workshops, or many of those winning tournaments.  Could it be that workshop just isn't as all powerful as everyone believes it to be?  

They way I view Workshop/Chalice is similar to the way Dark Ritual/Necropotence was seen.  I only hope that the same reasoning is used in considering the fate of the Workshop.

-Keith

Remark to Rakso's comment.  I meant exactly what I said.
I believe that the situation is very simialr to the unresricted Dark Rit/Necro combo.  I feel the correct choice was made at that time by restricting the card causing the problem not the card aiding it to be played.\n\n

[Rakso]

Quote (ctthespian @ Oct. 09 2003,07:52)

They way I view Workshop/Chalice is similar to the way Dark Ritual/Necropotence was seen.  

Clarification. Are you for or against a restriction of either card?

Dark Ritual / Necropotence was only one of the most broken combos in the history of the game (tempo + card advantage).

[MikeB]

If we want Chalice restricted, why not Powder Keg? If we are complaining about being forced to play diverse decks, we might as well complain about keg destroying 10 land, white weenie, and other (granted lower tier) creature beat decks. Why the double standard, it's all right to hose creature weenie decks, but be damned if other deck types have problems? Anyway....

Are you serious? How can you logically compare a card primarily used to kill creatures against something that has potentiol to shut down every deck in the format when set at a particular number? There is nothing that comes close to being able to compare to chalice at what it does.

[jpmeyer]

There are tons of fundamental rules in Magic.  You draw one card per turn.  You play one land per turn.  Once you cast a spell, it's gone.  Creatures tap when they attack.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with breaking the fundamental rules, and a huge number of cards do it.  Reborn Hero and Deep Analysis both break two of the rules, but they're fine.  The problems are the cards that make the rules meaningless, like Necropotence.

[Dante]

just to clarify - whoever (aargyle) said above or implied above that Goblin Welder needs to be looked at as a tutor and possible restricted, please pass your pipe over.  Goblin Welder takes a turn to go active (TnT excluded w/ anger) and dies to any creature control card and in NO way needs to be looked at...

Question 1: pre-mirrodin, does workshop need to be restricted?  My answer: No.  decks based around it are NOT dominating tournaments.  Look at the latest Dulmen, castricum, NE tournaments....how many workshop decks are in the top 8...like 1-3.  Not dominating or distorting to me.

Question 2: will workshop/chalice decks be dominating post mirrodin?  remains to be seen.  I haven't seen a decklist yet with chalice that when playtested setup a consistently dominating turn 1-2 that other decks couldn't overcome, on the order of the mind's desire decks before its release.

Question 3: if workshop/chalice is dominating, based on your answer to question 1 (in my case, "no"), which card should be the restriction candidate given that CotV will certainly appear as a 3-4 of in other decks/sideboards, Workshop or Chalice?  Since I said "no" to workshop's restriction in the current environment, i would say chalice since workshop decks aren't dominating right now.

If your concern about Chalice is hosing weenie aggro strategies, then your concern about Chalice has nothing to do with workshop, since Mox, land Chalice has nothing to do with workshops...

why can't people just see how it plays out before crying

I mean dear God, how about waiting for some evidence of distortion....I'd be more concerned about new Longer.dec and such that have upped their turn 1 kills to 50% or more (just based on the playtesters post, not verified myself), when a couple more chain of vapors (or other cheap ways to remove chalice) can solve their chalice issues.

Dante

[Bastian]

I don't think workshop decks are dominant because the vintage worlds had a fully powered and balanced metagame.

Quote If we want Chalice restricted, why not Powder Keg? If we are complaining about being forced to play diverse decks, we might as well complain about keg destroying 10 land, white weenie, and other (granted lower tier) creature beat decks. Why the double standard, it's all right to hose creature weenie decks, but be damned if other deck types have problems? Anyway....

Powder Keg can be played around and its existance never stopped weenie strategies from being played. Don't play overextend your number of creatures in play, etc... Besides, it's a one shot, while Chalice remains in play.

[Puschkin]

One of your better articles,   !

I´d just like to point out some things/ask questions:

1)

Quote Moreover, the DCI is useless because it hasn't officially explained a single restriction or unrestriction it's made since 1999, and there's zero transparency regarding the decision-making process.

Didn´t we get explanations each time? Sure, they were mostly crappy, but thats why I remember them   And I also read an entire article on the general policies of what and why to restrict. Of course, those article and explanations must not have originated from DCI directly but from one random Wizards' employee but I still think your statement is false.

2)

Quote It would thoroughly kill player interaction if, for example, Ancestral Recall were unrestricted. There would be too much random factor, and an opponent able to consistently refill his hand before you've done a thing is plain boring.

I somehow fail to follow this logic. How does unrestricted Ancestral kill player interaction? You could say this from draw-7s perhaps but Ancestral? How big are the chances to draw into the next Ancestral with only 3 cards? Sure, in conjucntion with all other broken cards this may be the result but its not Ancestrals fault. You either named the wrong card here or gave the worng explananation.


3)

Quote So, yes, for all practical purposes, it's [Mishra's Workshop] a permanent Dark Ritual

Erm, Dark Ritual costs one to cast, Workshop not. Ritual nets two mana, Workshop three. Or are you counting the landdrop somehow?

Just some things I stumbeled about.

[jntemp777]

Quote (Dante @ Oct. 09 2003,11:40)Question 1: pre-mirrodin, does workshop need to be restricted?  My answer: No.  decks based around it are NOT dominating tournaments.  Look at the latest Dulmen, castricum, NE tournaments....how many workshop decks are in the top 8...like 1-3.  Not dominating or distorting to me.

Question 2: will workshop/chalice decks be dominating post mirrodin?  remains to be seen.  

Dante,

I would agree with question 1.

However with question 2, Yes they would dominate.  Would they dominate every metagame in the world?  No.  Why?  Because there just isn't a whole lot of AFFORDABLE Workshops in the entire world.    

That said, [BEGIN RANT] if Workshops were 10 cents(like gush), and common(like gush), and printed in Mercadian Masque(like gush) then I can assure you that Workshop+Chalice decks would actively dominate/distort metagames.

Do we have any proof of this?
Our playtesting group has been actively testing Chalice in various decks and one simple conclusion we found was that Workshop+Chalice in a deck we call Chalice o' Mud was responsible for some truly stupid games.  Games were often just a matter of who dropped Chalice first.  This often boiled down to who went first.  

some other conclusions after playtesting:
2.  You can put up to 4x Chalice into other decks, but you'll still lose to Chalice o' Mud unless your deck is also Workshop based.

3.  With the exception of 4x Skullcaps & Jar, Mud doesn't have a whole lot of card drawing.  So how do you reliably get Chalice and end games?  You often just "opps I win" by topdecking a Chalice or a Workshop and cast for 1 to 2cc voiding.  Against nearly all other non-Workshop based decks, a Chalice set at 1 or 2 really ruins their day (Now one might be considering Pernicious Deed, but come on, how you gonna cast that when all your land gets Tangle wired?).  

4.  People have been saying you need to set Chalice for 3cc voiding to win against Hulk.  You don't.  If you do get a chance to do so, then why not.  You'll seal the game.  But even set at 1cc or 2cc, ANY blue based control deck loses their card drawing tempo.      

5.  If Workshop and Chalice are not restricted or banned(Chalice should be banned in type 1, Workshop restricted) people WILL lose interest in type 1.  Interestingly enough, we wondered if Wizards of the Coast may have been aware of this and made Chalice to end this format...        
Afterall, Wizards makes most of their money off type 2 right?     \n\n

[MoreFling]

Quote (jntemp777 @ Oct. 09 2003,21:42)5.  If Workshop and Chalice are not restricted or banned(Chalice should be banned in type 1, Workshop restricted) people WILL lose interest in type 1.  Interestingly enough, we wondered if Wizards of the Coast may have been aware of this and made Chalice to end this format...        

Actually, this will not happen, since then people will just make their own league with their own cards.

[Magimaster]

Quote (MoreFling @ Oct. 09 2003,13:51)Actually, this will not happen, since then people will just make their own league with their own cards.

And forever lose the support (or whatever handouts they gave us) of WotC.

T1 will just fall into the realm of the estranged formats like 1.5 and 5 Color, or whatever else is out there.

[Akuma (gio)]

Well, like always, it looks like the crying session has begun. I know some people have expressed their opinions and articulated them well, but there are also many people who are just whining.

It seems like whining has become an integral part of Type 1. X deck is designed = whining. X card is un-restricted = whining. X card is restricted = whining. X card is printed = whining. Please, stop. The release of a new set is not your cue to cry about X card.

I DO NOT want to have the last 18 months of progress undone. Type 1 has come a long way in this time. There are many powerful, viable decks available. Long was looking like it was going to be a problem, but things have changed. We need to let the metagame unfold, if something proves to ACTUALLY BE A PROBLEM, then something needs to be done. Don't SPECULATE.

Berserk anyone?

[Akuma (gio)]

Quote Available to whom?

Let's not kid ourselves, you have always needed and will continue to need power cards to play in this format at the highest level.

My concern is that the field will be narrowed. I want to be able to play different types of decks and still be competitive. I want proper metagaming to be worth something. There are always some decks that are considered the BEST in any given format, Type 1 is no different.

I don't think you should be able to beat a fully powered Psychatog deck with your budget elf deck.

EDIT: Magimaster removed his post, so this seems like a double post on my part.\n\n

[dicemanX]

Someone wanted examples of adapting budget to contend with Chalice.

If budget wants to compete vs Chalice MUD, maybe its time to start packing a higher land count and Pulverize in the SB (maybe main) of Goblin Sligh. Otherwise, you can run Vandals and Shamans, and hope to win the coin flip . Plus, if you drop Lackey first, you'll have a good chance (it can sneak through the artifact busters in a pinch, or drop a Siege Gang and its almost over if you follow with Piledriver).

[Dante]

Quote Do we have any proof of this?
Our playtesting group has been actively testing Chalice in various decks and one simple conclusion we found was that Workshop+Chalice in a deck we call Chalice o' Mud was responsible for some truly stupid games.  Games were often just a matter of who dropped Chalice first.  This often boiled down to who went first.  

If you're testing vs pre-Mirrodin decks designed in a way that didn't have to account for Chalice, this is not surprising.  I would expect Chalice-based decks to do well the first couple of months because a lot of people will still be running decks that haven't been updated and the testing people have done, is with the idea of trying to break chalice.  when it's time for the B/R list in March, I think we'll have a good idea where things are at regarding chalice and workshop.

either way, as far as I'm concerned, it would be the chalice that needs restriction, not the workshop.

also, the part about "truly stupid games", welcome to Long and Longer.dec, dragon, current wMUD, shining, etc.  I mean any really good deck these days has the ability to do stupid things that limit the opponents game or make them react in 1-2 turns or lose..

Quote Against nearly all other non-Workshop based decks, a Chalice set at 1 or 2 really ruins their day

sounds like the other decks need to be re-tooled/redesigned to take chalice into account, by varying some casting costs.  there are so many cheap ways of artifact destruction in the 1-3 CC range, I think we're all jumping the gun here.

[Magimaster]

Quote (Dante @ Oct. 09 2003,15:15)there are so many cheap ways of artifact destruction in the 1-3 CC range, I think we're all jumping the gun here.

But that's the thing, by forcing decks (and by decks, mostly the "budget" decks) to deal with Chalice, the deck itself becomes weaker. These decks lose some potency against the decks they are strong against by running dead cards just to deal with Chalice, and then already horrible matchups are possibly made more horrible due to less SB slots devoted to those or whatever may be the case.

[hippie tourach]

That Sligh deck you propose, diceman, would still roll over to Chalice MUD. Remember they have more control than just Chalice... Tangle Wire is a big problem, and Sphere makes those high cc answers even harder to reach. Even with a higher land count, it's going to be a lucky chance if you get 5 permanents into play before a total lock.

I'm not for restriction, though. Chalice MUD might turn out to be dominating, but I think it can be worked around. Without Chalices around, though, Burning Desire (or Academy if LED is restricted) will either dominate or force the metagame to be 80% control. If anything was to be restricted to weaken MUD, I'd want it to be Workshop.\n\n

[Magimaster]

Quote (Akuma (gio) @ Oct. 09 2003,14:38)

Quote Available to whom?

EDIT: Magimaster removed his post, so this seems like a double post on my part.

Ya, I hit submit, but decided to wait until I got home to put up a bit more "fleshy" post.

You're too quick for me!

Quote Let's not kid ourselves, you have always needed and will continue to need power cards to play in this format at the highest level.

My concern is that the field will be narrowed. I want to be able to play different types of decks and still be competitive. I want proper metagaming to be worth something. There are always some decks that are considered the BEST in any given format, Type 1 is no different.

I don't think you should be able to beat a fully powered Psychatog deck with your budget elf deck.

Noone is asking for the Elf Deck to even stand a chance against Psychatog. But when Entry Level Decks/Budget Decks become nothing more than punching bags, how can we get people into the format? I'm not asking to make pre-con decks. You've distorted my statement into the extremes.

Quote I DO NOT want to have the last 18 months of progress undone. Type 1 has come a long way in this time. There are many powerful, viable decks available. Long was looking like it was going to be a problem, but things have changed. We need to let the metagame unfold, if something proves to ACTUALLY BE A PROBLEM, then something needs to be done. Don't SPECULATE.

That's the thing, Decks like Workshop prisons will force players out of T1, or prevent them from even playing the format in the first place. What then? How far will this progress in the metagame continue if only the small percentage of people who own Workshops are the ones who do any testing? and of this small percentage, Smmenen probably does like 90% of it. What takes 18 months in type 1 to evolve takes weeks or even days in extended and t2. Why? Because T1 is becoming more and more exclusive. You argue for more innovation instead of bitching about Chalice. How can we innovate if we don't have people to innovate? Life is all peachy for the person who managed to snag his Workshops @ $40 a piece, yet the person who wasn't lucky enough for various reasons is left in the dust?


Restricting Workshops will do several things

For sure :

- Force people to innovate (awww, you can't play MUD anymore, gotta look for something else then)

Could possibly happen :

- Make more decks viable again
- Increase interest in the format (so I DON'T have to sell my soul to play?)


I'll have to finish this later.