Magic The Gathering .comAnd you thought CotV was shaking ...

[chaosdjinn]

Magic The Gathering .com

And you thought CotV was shaking up type 1...for those of you that remember, this card has the potential to bring Type 1 Magic back to the pre-restriction of strip mine days.  With 4 wastes & 1 strip, the impact this will have is daunting.

[Ultima]

*cough*, will be restricted, *cough*

[SliverKing]

No, it will be the final nail in the coffin of Wasteland.

[Grand Inquisitor]

Quote No, it will be the final nail in the coffin of Wasteland

Are you insinuating that Wasteland will get the axe instead of Crucible?

Not that I expect reason out of the DCI, but isn't Crucible the source of degeneracy here, not wasteland.  And if Wasteland is restricted, isn't it still ridiculously easy to abuse strips, fetches, fastbond, etc?

[Toast]

I agree with sliverking on this one...with a restricted wasteland, stripmine, crop rotation, and fastbond this card has a reasonable power level. with wasteland unrestricted...this card becomes format distorting.

The reason why I feel wasteland is the one that would get the axe is because wasteland is powerful on its own,whereas this card needs good lands in your graveyard to become powerful.

[MoreFling]

Let's not jump to conclusions. Didn't they adjust Mr Babycakes too? I'll believe it when I have it in my hand heh.

[Toad]

Quote (Ultima @ Oct. 13 2003,16:20)*cough*, will be restricted, *cough*

Oh please, not yet again... Looks like "restricted" is the only word T1 players can write these days.

This card has not even been tested by the R&D. It's just a prototype. So please, wait and see.

Edit : argl, owned by a dutch... *commits suicide*\n\n

[Tindemans]

hehheh Toad I as a Dutchman owned you in Antwerp right?  

first place: Arthur Tindemans
second place: Matthieu Durand

and about the card, I didn;t vote on the card, because I was completely convinced iot would cost 5, 6 or even 7 mana. I think it gets changed, otherwise they have to restrict it and make it with other formats than type 1 in head.

@ Toast and Sliverking, getting free land with one fetchy and
this is sick as well. especially with an added Strip and Waste(s), heck you can even start playing dustbowl.

Edit: throw in a fastbond and later on a zuran orb and you've got yourself a cheap infinite mana combo, playable in every deck playing the fetchies. Mud won't be the deck able to abuse it at its best, to reply to some posts below.. \n\n

[PucktheCat]

Quote (Toad @ Oct. 13 2003,09:57)

Quote (Ultima @ Oct. 13 2003,16:20)*cough*, will be restricted, *cough*

Oh please, not yet again... Looks like "restricted" is the only word T1 players can write these days.

This card has not even been tested by the R&D. It's just a prototype. So please, wait and see.

Edit : argl, owned by a dutch... *commits suicide*

I am not at all sure that it will be restricted, but I do think it will be yet another cards that will bear examining for Workshop decks.  In addition to being a strong lock card when combined with Wasteland/Strip Mine and developing the mana base when combined with Fetchlands, it has a very strong interaction with Smokestack.  When it is in play you can feed lands to the 'stack all day without fear of being unable to recover.

On the other hand it seems quite possible that there won't be anything to cut from MUD, for example, to fit this in.  The deck cut a lot of fat to fit in Chalice.

Leo

[Toast]

sick...but not degenerate. You are afterall wasting slots in your deck and mana for that effect.

I hope they adjust the card..except I think adjusting the CC would be less effective than limiting the abilities of the card with all the welders floating around.

[Jebus]

Actually, in a previous You Make the Card article, it was mentioned that R&D has worked with the card.  In fact, they are the ones that costed it at 3.  That was not a player decision.

[wuaffiliate]

Quote (SliverKing @ Oct. 13 2003,10:24)No, it will be the final nail in the coffin of Wasteland.

or one of the final nails in t1 coffin :}

[Smmenen]

Quote (Toad @ Oct. 13 2003,07:57)

Quote (Ultima @ Oct. 13 2003,16:20)*cough*, will be restricted, *cough*

Oh please, not yet again... Looks like "restricted" is the only word T1 players can write these days.

This card has not even been tested by the R&D. It's just a prototype. So please, wait and see.

Edit : argl, owned by a dutch... *commits suicide*

LOL.  I'm writing to Bush to propose an invasion of the Netherlands.  The dutch are terrorists

Steve

[TracerBullet]

Now THERE'S an invasion I can get behind!



 




Now, seeing as it took ~1 month to overtake Iraq, I'm going to start taking bets on how long it takes to take both The Netherlands AND France.  House opens odds at 2-1 less than three weeks.

[hippie tourach]

Actually I'd rather have this at a low cc than a high one.

At a high cc it's only playable by decks with Workshops and Welders. If the cc stays low then any deck can run it just to protect itself from an opposing Crucible. This might end up creating stupid and annoying stalemates once both players have dropped one.

I could be wrong, but it might just be a card that everyone plays 4 of, and you only have an advantage when something like Fastbond, Ankh of Mishra, or Smokestack is in play.

Ankh would be the 'tech' that takes down the Crucible-Fastbond-Zorb combo, if it is indeed viable...

[Triple_S]

My guess is the U.S. takes France in a week tops, the French military is only effective when led by dillusional women or foreigners.

[Tindemans]

Quote (TracerBullet @ Oct. 13 2003,18:38)Now THERE'S an invasion I can get behind!



 




Now, seeing as it took ~1 month to overtake Iraq, I'm going to start taking bets on how long it takes to take both The Netherlands AND France.  House opens odds at 2-1 less than three weeks.

well Toad you see what you got us into? we're gonna die. that is, I am, since you already comitted suicide. this sucks.

I mean, Bush probably even would get enthousiastic by the plan. Bring out the nukes!! the Dutch will take the rest of the world down along with us!!

[Smmenen]

Quote (Triple_S @ Oct. 13 2003,09:53)My guess is the U.S. takes France in a week tops, the French military is only effective when led by dillusional women or foreigners.

Hey hey hey - lets keep this to planning the invasion of the dutch.

       

On topic:
I don't think this card is going to be restricted.  How is this even half as broken as Dragon?  You have a combo here that puts a LAND into play.  Who gives a shit?  It's not like you just WIN which is what happens with GOOD combo decks.

Is it a good card?  Sure.  Possibly combo worthy? Sure.  Auto-restriction?  Don't make me laugh.\n\n

[Milton]

Anything that disrupts graveyards hurts this card.  Also, any mono-colored deck doesn't care about Wastelands.  Also, this works well to help against Smokestack as you can kill a land and bring it back.  One of these and a Fastbond mean that you can survive against Smokestack for quite a while.  

I like this card.  It's not broken, but it is breakable in the right deck.  That's what T1 is all about, isn't it?

[Tindemans]

Quote (Milton @ Oct. 13 2003,18:59)Anything that disrupts graveyards hurts this card.  Also, any mono-colored deck doesn't care about Wastelands.  Also, this works well to help against Smokestack as you can kill a land and bring it back.  One of these and a Fastbond mean that you can survive against Smokestack for quite a while.  

I like this card.  It's not broken, but it is breakable in the right deck.  That's what T1 is all about, isn't it?

a deck as Mud wouldn't rely on this card, so if you attack the graveyard, fine. that's at least one otherwise possibly useful spell less to worry about.

and, one of these and a fastbond means you're about to combo the heck out of your opponent.\n\n

[Thug]

In it's current form it just begs to be abused.

Just picture some new form of TurboLand:

- Workshop, Wasteland, Strip, Fetches
- Glacial Chasm
- All Artifact Mana

- Crucible of Worlds
- Sphere

- Explorations, Fastbond, Horn of Greed, Zuran Orb
- Other forms of disruption - Duress, FoW
- Tutors, other search/draw

and maybe even Goblin Welder and Smokestack could be worked in.
This card allows you to build a deck with all kind of worked-in combo's

Koen

[Smmenen]

Abused?  Maybe.  Used? Sure.

This card is obviously an engine of something, but think about the cards you listed - NONE of them lead to combo's of power comparable to what we have already.  How is this even half as broken as Dragon?  You have a combo here that puts a LAND into play.  Who gives a shit?  It's not like you just WIN which is what happens with GOOD combo decks.

Is it a good card?  Sure.  Possibly combo worthy? Sure.  Auto-restriction?  Don't make me laugh.

Steve

[Crater Hellion]

It's sort of good because a key piece of the engine can't be countered/duressed (land) oh wait.. what's that card Bazaar of something? No no something of baghdad..



I can't wait to build my hermit druid/ yawgmoth's will/fastbond/zuran orb/ crucible of world's combo deck!



Dragon is better than anything that will come out of this I should think.. but Dragon is too good.

[Thug]

Quote This card is obviously an engine of something, but think about the cards you listed - NONE of them lead to combo's of power comparable to what we have already.  How is this even half as broken as Dragon?  You have a combo here that puts a LAND into play.  Who gives a shit?  It's not like you just WIN which is what happens with GOOD combo decks.

It might not combo as consistent as Long
It might not be as fast as Long or Dragon

But it is able to run more and better disruption, and therefore it should not be seen as a pure combo deck.

The fact is that there are a lot of two card combination that create some form of board-control or card advantage.

I think this is a card that allows for some new form of archetype, it just the fact that this card gets very good with common cards, that also are very good on there own.

The deck I'm trying to describe is a form of Prison/Control/Combo.

Quote Abused?  Maybe.  Used? Sure.

Quote Is it a good card?  Sure.  Possibly combo worthy? Sure.  Auto-restriction?  Don't make me laugh.

Since the rest of your reply was pointed at me, I guess this is too.

I never said this card warrants auto-restriction.
Off course this card can be abused, just like lots of others in Type 1. You need to abuse cards to make a good deck...

Koen

[Smmenen]

That part was directed at the first post.  

I'm interested to see what you can come up with in terms of abusing this card.  

Steve

[Vegeta2711]

We have decks that can win on turn 1 and 2 consistently and you guys are worried about stuff that won't even affect board position till at least turn 2?

Shit sometimes you won't even have more than 1 land in play before your permenantly locked down or dead anyways.  

[Thug]

Quote We have decks that can win on turn 1 and 2 consistently and you guys are worried about stuff that won't even affect board position till at least turn 2?

Shit sometimes you won't even have more than 1 land in play before your permenantly locked down or dead anyways.

Stop comparing it to combo-decks that kill on turn 1 or turn 2 cosistently.

It won't be as fast as Long
It won't throw as much direct damage as Sligh
It won't counter as much spells as control
It's an other kind of deck...

And it might not be a early-game card, but therefore you get to run all forms of disruption so that this card can be a game-breaker/winner on aprox turn 3 or 4.

The great thing about this card that it's almost a 1-card combo, you could even kill with lands such as Barbarian Ring or Rath's Edge.

I not sure Tunnel-vision is an English word, but if it is, it describes you guys best.

I rest my case,

Koen

[Triple_S]

It remains to be seen what restrictions will be handed down December 1 or how the metagame will change once Mirrodin comes in.

[Toast]

Mudhole =          

[jeek]

Perhaps one of the reasons why this card is getting through is to shake up Type I. Cards such as Chalice of the Void show that Wizards isn't afraid to change the environment.

Yes, this will work with Wasteland as great nonbasic hate. Mono decks will become slightly stronger. Yes, it'll work with Strip Mine as killer LD. Strip Mine/Crucible of Worlds will be a slow kill.

Adding Fastbond will speed it up.. but by then you're talking about a three-card combo with two restricted pieces. Definitely not the strongest of combos.

If this card sees a lot of play, expect decks to run more basics. Oh, the horror.  

So your pet deck will have more to worry about, big frickin' deal. Evolve or die, as the saying goes.

Now, if someone actually comes up with a viable deck that can abuse this combo, I'd love to see a list.