Revisiting Keeper

[Fishhead]

Quote How do you stabilize the early to mid-game in most matchups without powder kegs?

I think it depends on your metagame.  I run 3 Kegs, starting one main in the Shaman slot because I expect more to face Sligh, Stompy or RG beats than I do Academy or Keeper.  

To me, how many Kegs you have available is a litmus test of how aggressive your metagame is.  

Quote OR the KrOathan combo transformational Sideboard

I highly recommend trying this.  The guys who developed this sideboard didn't just blow off the control matchup; you've got Negators and Duress to make their life hard even without ReB.  And the Oath is an autowin against unprepared decks that play creatures.  (Life gets a little harder once they bring in their Crypts etc, but you cant have everything.)

[Zherbus]

Adding the standard Oath engine, you would remove many good cards for the mirror. From the base Keeper skeleton, to start, you'd probably remove The Abyss, 1 Morphling, Gorilla Shaman, Fire/Ice (red would be gone, replaced by green), and many remove Yawgmoths Will to fit better with the blessings.

The Downside to Oath is that you arent running the best possible cards in a mirror, and the anti-creature theme is less than desire against combo and Keeper. This is not to mention that red is a great color to have post SB for Red Elemental Blast. The subtitute, Duress, cant get rid of Ophidians and Back to Basics when they hit play.

*The bolded items are all tools for the mirror you would really miss by dropping red to accomidate green.

I really dont want to go too far off topic on an Oath tangent, but the KrOathan sideboard (Trinity) is really a fine way to still run a Keeper that crushes aggro and isnt total poop in the mirror.

Plain and simple, IMO, if I wanted to fight my way through a mixed metagame with GOOD control players (I mean whats the point of fighting through swiss if you cant beat the other control decks you meet in the Top8) and aggro, I would stick to my 4ColorCunningWish.dec variant of Keeper. If I was in an area where control wasnt that big of a problem (that is to say that there is some decent control players but you are confident in your ability to outplay them), but there was some damn good aggro players, KrOathan is a fine road to travel.

[Azhrei]

Yeah, if you're losing to aggro play Stone Keeper (what Devos called the Grim/Power combo version and I happen to like that name for it) and just auto-win. Problem solved.

[rozetta]

Does anyone have tips on playing keeper versus Gro? Which version of keeper would you choose for a mostly aggro metagame where you're also likely to see gro? I've been trying the gro matchup and it's extremely difficult for me.

[Rakso]

Interesting... I missed this thread.

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=3760

Blue-based aggro-control decks like Gro are extremely good for taking down combo.

Control decks that stock up on removal post-SB are extremely good for taking down blue-based aggro-control decks like Gro after Game 1.

Don't try that transformational SB trick against aggro-control.

[Zherbus]

Quote (Rakso @ Nov. 17 2002,09:52)Blue-based aggro-control decks like Gro are extremely good for taking down combo.

Control decks that stock up on removal post-SB are extremely good for taking down blue-based aggro-control decks like Gro after Game 1.

Don't try that transformational SB trick against aggro-control.

For sure.

Keep in mind that Misdirect effects are bad against simple things like Swords to Plowshares if you have no creature in play.

As for blue based aggro-control, the transformational SB just runs face first into Gro. The combo is no good, of course and all you really gain is possibly a pair of Duress.

[Cuandoman]

Mad props to Az for the new SB tech. The peacekeeper works wonders vs. stompy, bleach is fantastic against hate filled sligh, and the COP is gravy!

How do you deal with Cursed Scroll quickly enough? I understand that the main concern is to get COP into play ASAP. It prevents PoP, various other burn and the creature rush from taking you down. But arent you going to be quite low when it hits? (provided you didnt draw demonic or the actual COP in initial 7 or 8 cards)

The smart sligh player would blow his load all over your face (pun intended) when he saw COP. Then he has to kill you with Scroll while tieing up your mana with red threats. That would prevent you from being able to get the Shattering Pulse from the board and use it effectively. If he has 2 scrolls are you going to afford to buy it back, only to catch fireblasts and PoPs?

Wouldn't a SB'ed Powder Keg better suit this matchup ratherthan the pyroclasm?

What is Pyroclasm better against? Suicide... what else?

[Anonymous]

HMMM? What about fire/ice over sbed pyroclasm spot. Only because it is a fecthable non white removal.

[Cuandoman]

Quote (westredale @ Nov. 17 2002,20:47)HMMM? What about fire/ice over sbed pyroclasm spot. Only because it is a fecthable non white removal.

Pyroclasm hits everything as does the keg. What is needed isnt another spot removal spell, its a sweeper.

I still play fire in MY main anyway... so its not like I want another

[Grand Inquisitor]

pyroclasm certainly doesn't hit everything.  like cuandoman said, its basically just better against suicide (shade, hypies, and sort of negators).  but it does little against traditional anti-keeper aggro, such as cursed scroll, mishra's factory, phyrexian warbeast/chimeric idol.  and as a gro/alice player, i can tell you how badly a keg set for 2 ruins your day.

[Dante]

Pyroclasm kills the creatures without 1 or more turns of attacking.  I wouldn't side it in instead of Keg(s), but in addition to Keg(s).

Dante

[Fishhead]

Outside the box: Would MonoU play Pyroclasm instead of Keg if it cost U1 instead of R1?  I dont think so, because Keg is your one-stop answer to all sorts of problems.  

Just a different way of looking at the question.

[Dante]

Quote (Fishhead @ Nov. 18 2002,16:03)Outside the box: Would MonoU play Pyroclasm instead of Keg if it cost U1 instead of R1?  I dont think so, because Keg is your one-stop answer to all sorts of problems.  

Just a different way of looking at the question.

If I was running 2-4 kegs, I would consider (note the word "consider") the U1 pyroclasm because:

1. it kills the creatures that turn.  No waiting.
2. It's mystical tutorable, and if its now U1, also merchant scroll-able.

remember also that mono-Blue doesn't run monkeys or disenchant effects like Keeper does, so it needs Kegs for Scroll duty more than Keeper does.  Also,I maindeck 1 Keg in keeper and side another, along with Pyroclasm - the version that brought this up was Az's version with (correct me if I'm wrong) 1 pyroclasm sided and 0 kegs.

Dante

[Milton]

Quote remember also that mono-Blue doesn't run monkeys or disenchant effects like Keeper does, so it needs Kegs for Scroll duty more than Keeper does.  Also,I maindeck 1 Keg in keeper and side another, along with Pyroclasm - the version that brought this up was Az's version with (correct me if I'm wrong) 1 pyroclasm sided and 0 kegs.

Dante

I think that's the real point.  Is the Az like Keeper good enough to make it out of the early rounds against a good aggro based field?  Clearly it's good enough against a broad field, but good players packin' aggro and hate?

I would argue that it isn't (with all due respect, of course.  Keeper is, after all, largely a metagame tweaked deck).  I think Dante is arguing the same thing.

My recent experience with Cunning Wish was very negative.  I saw my opponents develop multiple threats while I waited for three mana to cast Cunning Wish for Swords, all the while my opponent was beating me down with Mongooses and Boas or Lions and Serindibs, Wastelands and Shaman.  So, the question remains:  Is Cunning Wish too slow?

My response is a cautious "yes".  I had trouble with Cunning Wish and I longed for Powder Kegs in my sideboard.  I found myself Wishing for Plows, when I probabally should have been playing Kegs in place of the Wishes.

At this point I would argue that Cunning Wish is strictly a metagame call.  Look at the sideboard differences:

Typical Wish Sideboard (my style, no Conversion or Alter Reality)
1 Peacekeeper
1 Allay
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Ebony Charm
4 Red Blasts
2 COP Red
1 Plow
1 Edict
1 Shaman
1 Abayance
1 Pyroclasm

Non Wish Sideboard
2 Dwarven Miner (a back-breaker against many decks)
4 Red Blasts
2 Powder Kegs (superior to Plow and Edict in board)
2 Tormod's Crypts (superior to Charm)
1 Gorilla Shaman
2 COP Red
1 Aura Fracture (superior to Allay)
1 Moat (superior to Peacekeeper in most cases)

This is what I mean by bastardizing your sideboard to make Wish work.  Ebony Charm, Allay and Peacekeeper are sub-par cards in most cases.  And, with wish there is a tendency to run fewer spot removal cards, making the Wish a very important component of the deck, and an expensive answer to spot removal.

Look at Azhrei's deck.  For removal and creature control he has 1 Abyss, 1 COP Red, 1 Edict, 1 Plow, 1 Balance and 1 Fire/Ice with 2 Cunning Wish.  His maindeck creature removal is very situational.  If his competant aggro opponent casts a couple of Blurred Mongoose, a River Boa and a Gorilla Shaman, Az has no choice but to Balance.  And he has to find Balance with only two tutor effects, and find the mana to Tutor and Balance around his opponent's Wastelands and Shaman.  Also, we cannot discount the threat of Cursed Scroll.  Anyone who has been on the recieving end of a Scroll beating knows what I am talking about.  Is one Blow enough?  Sure, you can Wish for Shattering Pulse to kill Scroll, but is that too slow?

Dante, on the other hand, has maindeck Moat, a maindeck Keg and maindeck Plows and Edicts, along with Balance and Abyss.  He also has three tutor effects (correct me if I am wrong, of course) in Demonic, Vampiric and Mystical.  He is much more capable of handeling his competent aggro opponent.  Also, Zuran Orb will probabally give Dante 10 life before the game is over, while COP Red - Cunning Wish - Alter Reality might be a little slow against fast aggro.

To me that's the real issue.  Cunning Wish just seems a little too slow.

[Dante]

@ Milton - yah, my deck was definitely geared towards and had no problems with aggro, but the aggro I faced was Sligh, Reanimators, full english breakfast - no zoo decks that seem to be giving you a ton of problems, but not breaking into the top 2 has got me thinking I may be slanted a little too much towards aggro (losing to a U/r deck and I believe a Gro, although I can't remember in top4).

I'm testing a version that has cunning wish and 3 brainstorms and it's doing well against Mask, but that's all I've had a chance to test against right now (it still has Moat, but I've cut back on a few other things like vampiric and others).  We won't have a Sunday tournament until next week to see how I do (although I've got a Mask deck built as well that I'm dying to drop on people).

Ebony Charm is not sub-par when most of the decks that I want the crypt against side in null rod.  I have both (crypt and charm) in my board and I'm glad for it.  Peacekeeper isn't good against any of the decks I regularly face.

Dante

[Milton]

Aah, those damn reanimator decks.  Damn, those were good.  Manuel and his damn Verdent Forces.  I love that deck, if only I could find some Entombs.  I have 13 Moxes and 3 Lotuses, but only 1 Entomb!  But, Reanimator would be perfect in my metagame.  And, yes, in your case Ebony Charm is superior, but casting it off a Wish against Reanimator might be a little slow to fend off a second or third turn fattie.

Wouldn't Peacekeeper be good against Reanimator?  Or Mask for that matter?

[riverboa11]

I've been tinkering with my Keeper on Apprentice and at the local card shop for the past couple of weeks now.  Now that the Green is gone, I have found that the Grim Monolith/Power Artifact combo fits in extremely well now.  The mana base certainly isn't hurt with the inclusion of the Monolith and it definitely boosts your win percentage against aggro (duh).  Has anybody else added the combo in since it has been decided that Green hinders rather then help?

Another thing that I have been toying around with is Dust Bowl.  I used to laugh when I saw this in the German list, but it really is a monster.  I added it just for fun a couple of days ago, to see what all the fuss was about.  I haven't been disappointed yet.

Here's the manabase that I'm running at the moment and which I have found to be the best in my testing.

6 SoLoMoxen
1 Strip Mine
2 Wasteland
1 Dust Bowl
1 LoA
1 CoB
1 Grim Monolith
3 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
4 Tundra
4 Volcanic Island

Btw, Peacekeeper would not be good against Reanimator.  It doesn't stop Spirit of the Night, Reya Dawnbringer and Iridescent Angel.

[j_orlove]

Quote   Btw, Peacekeeper would not be good against Reanimator.  It doesn't stop Spirit of the Night, Reya Dawnbringer and Iridescent Angel.

Uhh...

Quote  
Peacekeeper

Color= White  Type= Creature - Peacekeeper  Cost= 2W WL®  
Text (WL+errata): 1/1. ; At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice ~this~ unless you pay {W}. ; Creatures can't attack. [Oracle 1999/07/01]

Players still have an attack phase, but must declare zero attackers. [D'Angelo 1999/07/10]
 

It's not a walking moat.

[Fishhead]

Quote Typical Wish Sideboard (my style, no Conversion or Alter Reality)
1 Peacekeeper
1 Allay
1 Shattering Pulse
1 Ebony Charm
4 Red Blasts
2 COP Red
1 Plow
1 Edict
1 Shaman
1 Abayance
1 Pyroclasm

I managed to squeeze 2 Kegs into my SB despite running two Wishes.  IMHO, nothing beats a Keg for beating beatdown.    You gotta have them.  I believe I ran:

unwishable:
2x Keg (+1 maindecked)
2x Aura Fracture
1x Shaman

wishable:
3x ReBs (run even without Wish)
1x Alter Reality (poop)
1x Ebony Charm (great!)
1x Teferis Response
2x Swords to Plowshares
1x Shattering Pulse (good!)
1x Fire/Ice (eh.)

I'd dump the Alter Reality if I had it to do again.  Allay would be very good here, so would Skeletal Scrying.  

Quote Another thing that I have been toying around with is Dust Bowl.  I used to laugh when I saw this in the German list, but it really is a monster.

I know; I couldnt believe it either.  I expect this to make an appearance in NG Keeper very shortly, it would just rule in a mirror-heavy metagame.  It's amazing in the same way Aura Fracture is amazing; at first it sounds like junk, but then you play it and the whole "spending mana, sacrificing land" thing suddenly seems more reasonable when you start smashing permanents that your opponent needs.

[riverboa11]

Oops.  Was thinking something else there(probably Moat).  My bad.... \n\n

[Cuandoman]

Excuse my apparent ignorance, but how do those creatures kill you if they cant attack?

I also tried the dustbowl in my keeper this past weekend. I didnt draw it much when it would have mattered. The jury is still out.

6 SoLoMoxen
1 Strip Mine
2 Wasteland
1 Dust Bowl
1 LoA
1 CoB
4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
4 Tundra
4 Volcanic Island

Is the power artifact combo really as lethal as everyone seems to make it out to be? Isnt it hard to get an enchantment and an artifact with time? Would Vampiric help?

[Fishhead]

Quote Is the power artifact combo really as lethal as everyone seems to make it out to be? Isnt it hard to get an enchantment and an artifact with time? Would Vampiric help?

Well, you probably already know my opinion on this, since I've been pretty vocal about it.    

There are two different levels of Combo; just running the Grim+Power Artifact or running the full KrOathan sideboard.

IMHO, the KrOathan is an autowin against decks with creatures.  (No, I dont include Gro.  If you have twice as many counterspells as you do creatures, you are not a creature deck.  Standard Keeper runs 2xMorphling, but also you should not side KrOathan in this case, despite their plan to "win with creatures". Lol  Four Oaths mean that you will invariably execute the Combo before they can react.  Dont play this too many times in a row though, its got holes big enough to drive a truck through and smart opponents will adapt.  

I have played a bunch of different versions without the KrOathan though and still been pleased with the Combo.  Theres a report in the Tournament Reports section (called C&Js with Keeper or something similar) where I play a build very similar to Carsten Kotters latest build at the sanctioned Thursday event.  The Combo wins me one game that I would have drawn on time with Morphling.  I reflect on the meaning of Impulse at the end of the report.  It goes without saying that I play Vampiric main; the only reason not to is if you play so much control that you cant afford to have it countered.

[Dante]

Quote (riverboa11 @ Nov. 18 2002,19:25)

@ Milton - right, the charm has the added bonus of being wishable.

Even if peacekeeper DID stop those creatures, it's a black based deck, don't you think they'd had an edict or two (worse for you if it's chainer's).

Dante

[Smmenen]

Quote (Milton @ Nov. 18 2002,16:45) I have 13 Moxes and 3 Lotuses, but only 1 Entomb!  

Good Lord that's alot of Power.

Enough revelant issues have arisen that I feel compelled to speak.  

First of all, I have a wealth of expereince weilding Keeper in myriad environments, but in the last two years my opinion has been that there are better decks to play.  That DOES NOT mean that Keeper sucks -- it is an excellent deck, but only one choice among many.  The point of bringing this up is twofold: first, I have some grounding to speak on these issues; second, nevertheless, I willl speak with the tentative voice of one who does not play Keeper exclusively anymore.


- I think Azhrei has made real progress with Keeper.  I think that Cunning Wish is essential and Excellent.  I think his build shows a major step in a proposed change for Keeper - changes such as this are significant.  I recall when Yawgmoth's Will was first used in Keeper - widespeadly used.  I recall the tentative reaction.  In fact, Azhrei was slow on the ball on this issue.  The major transition was away from Blessings to Will - the adjustment that Darren made was to build OSE.  Other Keepers such as myself used one blessing and the Will.  The point is that I would expect nothing less than some hesitation on this issue - hesitation that Milton is expressing.  Nevertheless, I think that Darren's version will turn out to be the future of Keeper - unless Keeper actually splits into two archtypes - something which has been predicted for some time, but never was actually fulfilled - i.e. Dark Keeper v. Keeper, Blessing Keeper etc.  

- I honestly don't know why Milton continues to play Keeper as his primary deck.  Milton, I don't know why you use Blood Moon keeper - that is even more esoteric; particularly for an environment like Gencon.  At Gencon you should only have to rely on the fact that you are a better Keeper player than your opponents who have probably just thrown KEeper together.  Also the dearth of mirror matches compared to other relevant decks suggests that your decision to use Blood Moon keeper is foolish and foolish for continuing to use it in that kind of environment.  If anything, it would ironically hurt you in a Gencon type environment.  

- The issue that no one has directly raised, but seems of the utmost importance to me: Doesn't Vampiric Tutor deserve a return?  I say so.  The primary reasons against it's use have dissapeared.  Additionally, Keeper faces a different metagame than NG Keepers all day.  Vampiric seems better than ever.  
If I am wrong on this, then for God's sake present a compelling argument on why I am wrong - and that bullshit about 2 life is completely meaningless - so dont bring that up.

- I do not like the Power Artifact Combination at all.  Conceptually can you see how destructive this is?  For all intents and purposes you are signalling that Keeper's anti-aggro measures are not sufficient.  I don't buy this.  I think Keeper CAN handle aggro with proper use of the sideboard and not by diluting the deck with a defeatest alternate strategy.  When I posted a survey some time ago about Keeper and Mono blue, the voice of the people, JP Meyer said that Keeper had better anti-aggro measure.  Yet, doesn't the use of Power Artifact suggest otherwise -- which I don't by.  My thoughts on the use of the Oath stuff apply to this point as well.  

- Keeper beats TnT.  It simply means you have to know how to approach the deck.  When I was testing standard keeper against TnT, I utterly fucking wrecked the TnT deck.  I simply tutored up wastelands and shaman - all I needed was one anti-aggro spell to stop the first wave and I could keep the TnT deck locked down with more Wasteland and strips by recurring them while drawing massive amounts of cards.

Stephen Menendian\n\n

[Milton]

Quote - I honestly don't know why Milton continues to play Keeper as his primary deck.  Milton, I don't know why you use Blood Moon keeper - that is even more esoteric; particularly for an environment like Gencon.  At Gencon you should only have to rely on the fact that you are a better Keeper player than your opponents who have probably just thrown KEeper together.  Also the dearth of mirror matches compared to other relevant decks suggests that your decision to use Blood Moon keeper is foolish and foolish for continuing to use it in that kind of environment.  If anything, it would ironically hurt you in a Gencon type environment.  

I've stopped using Keeper.  After my last two tournaments, I'm done with it.  The Bloodmoons left my Keeper deck a while ago.  Gen Con has come and gone, and with 1/4 of decks being Keeper, Bloodmoon was a good call, as was basic lands.  I just couldn't get around all of the diverse decks that were there.  Reanimator, Zoo, Mono Blue, Keeper, Sligh, Suicide.  It was all there.  The players in the upper brackets were very good.  Everyone knew how to beat Keeper, so I didn't fare well.  My only comfort comes from knowing that no other Keeper decks did well.  But, that's in the past.  Thanks for bringing up such a painful memory.  

You are right about one thing.  Vampiric belongs in Keeper.  I never understood why it was removed.  

Also, Keeper has a tough time against TnT.  I think your example was overly simplistic.  Kill their first fatty with removal and Gorilla Shaman and Wasteland your way to victory.  That's tough when they have 30 mana sources and recursion and a cheap search engine.  But, if you are comfortable with the match-up, I'll conced that it's not one sided.  Maybe an even split, but it is by no means a simple matcup.

Also, I don't think Cunning Wish is the future of Keeper.  This is my preliminary reaction based on a couple of tournaments.  I think it's too expensive and slow, but I'm still watching and hopeing that it works.

[Zherbus]

Quote - The issue that no one has directly raised, but seems of the utmost importance to me: Doesn't Vampiric Tutor deserve a return?  I say so.  The primary reasons against it's use have dissapeared.  Additionally, Keeper faces a different metagame than NG Keepers all day.  Vampiric seems better than ever.  
If I am wrong on this, then for God's sake present a compelling argument on why I am wrong - and that bullshit about 2 life is completely meaningless - so dont bring that up.

My reasoning for this is because against control and combo, as we all know, its card disadvantage. There is no "silver bullet" against control as there is against aggro, so it wouldnt even be worth the card unless you are in a position to have a Yawgmoths Will go uncountered for example. More importantly though is against aggro, to me it translates to you either take 2, lose a turn, then cast what you tutored for OR you draw something you can use NOW.

I also ran Vampiric for the longest time, well after Azhrei and D'Avanzo advocated cutting it. I just passed it off as "Well I dont play Keeper mirrors all day" just like everyone else, until I tried it and never looked back.

Quote - I do not like the Power Artifact Combination at all.  Conceptually can you see how destructive this is?  For all intents and purposes you are signalling that Keeper's anti-aggro measures are not sufficient.  I don't buy this.  I think Keeper CAN handle aggro with proper use of the sideboard and not by diluting the deck with a defeatest alternate strategy.  When I posted a survey some time ago about Keeper and Mono blue, the voice of the people, JP Meyer said that Keeper had better anti-aggro measure.  Yet, doesn't the use of Power Artifact suggest otherwise -- which I don't by.  My thoughts on the use of the Oath stuff apply to this point as well.  

I pretty much agree with all of that there. I dont like making my deck slightly worse in the control mirror when all it does is answer the problems that arent a problem so much for me.

Quote - Keeper beats TnT.  It simply means you have to know how to approach the deck.  When I was testing standard keeper against TnT, I utterly fucking wrecked the TnT deck.  I simply tutored up wastelands and shaman - all I needed was one anti-aggro spell to stop the first wave and I could keep the TnT deck locked down with more Wasteland and strips by recurring them while drawing massive amounts of cards.

I sit on the fence here. While what you described as a path to victory is one I have taken many many times, its sometimes not the solution. The deck can be so explosive that it can just *win* before you can do much. Fishhead declares something like 66% win over Keeper with TnT, you seem the opposite, and I am right at the 50%/50% mark. Basically Miltons summary of the matchup was my thoughts as well.

BTW, its the Paragons as a whole that have made many of the selections in Azhreis listings. Of course many ideas that were presented in brainstorming had pretty much flopped. For example, I had a 2 Shaman, 1 Wish, 5 moxen build, with Timetwister. Both Azhrei and myself tested it and it just didnt hold.

[Mon, Goblin Chief]

I personally feel the Vampiric to be totally worthwhile. I usually even keep Mystical in after boarding (I know this is considered bad play on this board), because it gives me Will, Mind Twist or Ancestral when I need it.
If you play GrimPower you should definitly include Vamp, as it allows you to go for the combo with a lot more regularity.

Quote More importantly though is against aggro, to me it translates to you either take 2, lose a turn, then cast what you tutored for OR you draw something you can use NOW.

Well, yeah, you draw something you can use now. But how often will that be a Mind Twist for their empty hand, a Counter for their already played thread or something like that? The thing the Tutor does is to give you what you want, when you want it.

Dust Bowl: I play it since I opened one in the Masques prerelease and it's one of the most deciding cards you'll draw in a lot of your Keeper-mirrors. (or against any other multicolored deck that is) It singlehandedly won me games I would have cruelly lost had my opponent had the mana I destroyed him. It's certainly better than the third Wasteland.

GrimPower: Well I even played it before going to 4 colors, and it's good for me. I still usually win my Keeper-mirrors by honest Morphling beatdown, but it makes a resolved Will more lethal even there (I have answered opposing Morphlings a turn before I would have died). Against Aggro there always is the possibility that they pressure you like hell (Sui still is one of your hardest matchups, if I'm informed right, not to talk of TnT, 50:50 is what you'll get there regulaly) and the combo won me a lot of games I would have lost with Morphling only. (I have added the Monolith for a Wasteland and the Power Artifact as the 61st card)

[Zherbus]

Code Sample I personally feel the Vampiric to be totally worthwhile. I usually even keep Mystical in after boarding (I know this is considered bad play on this board), because it gives me Will, Mind Twist or Ancestral when I need it.
If you play GrimPower you should definitly include Vamp, as it allows you to go for the combo with a lot more regularity.


I most certainly keep Mystical in the deck for the same reasons. Vamp is just ugly to me because its not only card disadvantage, painful, and slow but its also off color. Mystical can at least be pitched to FoW or Misdirection early on.

As for Dust Bowl, I detailed that in the other thread. Its really amazing at times. God knows you get mana flooded from time to time with Keeper and this just turns mana flood into a blessing against so many things.

[Mith]

Just how good is Recall? Dropping green makes me miss regrowth at times, but I seem to find myself often wishing Recall was something else when I draw it. Has anyone else found it to be very useful?

[Zherbus]

Its a good question, the Paragons had tested Recall with somewhat mixed results. Eric Wilkenson presented it and I immediately added it to the deck. Relearn was also used with minimal success.

Recall was certainly usable, but I found that it was like Yawgmoths Will to a lesser degree. It was pretty worthless in the early game, but instead of being super when you have developed you had have cards to pitch for Recall to be any good. It COULD be explosive, but just often isnt.