Zherbus
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« on: March 08, 2003, 10:35:29 am » |
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The Tourist or Paragon Keeper 20034 Mana Drain 4 Force of Will 1 Misdirection 1 Mystical Tutor 1 Merchant Scroll 1 Ancestral Recall 1 Time Walk 1 Fact or Fiction 1 Braingeyser/Future Sight1 Stroke of Genius 2 Brainstorm 2 Cunning Wish 2 Morphling 1 The Abyss 1 Demonic Tutor 1 Mind Twist 1 Yawgmoth's Will 1 Balance 2 Swords to Plowshares 1 Zuran Orb 1 Gorilla Shaman 1 Fire/Ice 1 Black Lotus 1 Sol Ring 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Pearl 1 Mox Sapphire 3 Underground Sea 3 Volcanic Island 3 Tundra 2 Island 4 Flooded Strand 3 Wasteland 1 Strip Mine 1 Library of Alexandria 2 City of Brass Sideboard 1 Powder Keg/Moat 1 Blue Elemental Blast 1 Skeletal Scrying 1 Ebony Charm 1 Shattering Pulse 4 Red Elemental Blast 1 Diabolic Edict 1 Swords to Plowshares 1 Allay 1 Aura Fracture 1 Circle of Protection Red 1 PlaguebearerSome card choice explanations: 1. No Dust Bowl - I am leaning towards a good old Wasteland nowadays since I find that often then Gro-a-Tog match often boils down to LoA. If one player gets it active, they win. GAT can't solve LoA, but you want to be sure you still can. Rozetta, I think it was, mentioned the potential of losing about 3-4 card advantage to the LoA if you are stuck with a Bowl early on, and I want to prevent that before it ever happens to me. 2. Future Sight - Honestly, with the amount of Misdirecting aggro-control stomping around everywhere, Braingeyser got a whole lot weaker. I'm not 100% sold on going with Geyser or Future Sight, but at the moment Future Sight is severly kicking some ass. Its casting cost has gotten me once, but I wont hold it against the card since I still won that game. Right now, its like running a second Yawgmoths will since you win when it resolves and you go apeshit on your opponent when you can...oh yeah, it can't be misdirected.  3. 2 Swords to Plowshares maindeck - I moved the Edict effect to the sideboard since mirrors are getting more sparse. The need for spot removal is peak and if I am really needing the Edict effect, thats what the Wishes are for. It's not totally abysmal drawing a STP in the mirror since you can throw it back with a timely Brainstorm. 4. Pleaguebearer - Leviat and Bryce let me in on this little gem a few weeks ago. I must say, so far I have been impressed. It's essentially a Gorilla Shaman for non-blck creatures and lets me mow down man-lands and dreadnoughts alike. 5. Back to Basics has all but dried up and blown away and Bloodmoon has pretty much taken its spot. So since I already have 4 fetchlands and 2 Islands, I replaced the Undiscovered with another City.
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Bastian
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« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2003, 10:54:36 am » |
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I can't see the zombie in the SB be that good. Besides killing Dreadnoughts, tokens and manlands, what else does it do? If a creature costs two mana you'll have to spend 4B to kill it with the plaguebearer!
I may be wrong, but although Peacekeeper doesn't kill creatures, it seems a lot more effective vs them than Plaguebearer is.
How good has it been anyway?
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Mith
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« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2003, 10:59:28 am » |
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Plaguebearer! I love it I've got to hear more about how that card ends up working out for you in the SB.
About dropping a card for that 2nd maindec StP: Do you still feel that Fire/Ice good enough? Is it better than a maindeck edict...which can take out that Tog or dreadnought in a pinch?
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rozetta
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« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2003, 12:12:20 pm » |
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Yep, it was me who mentioned getting screwed by the dust bowl.
I've recently been testing the second swords in place of fire/ice but found myself often holding too many dead swords in the mirror, so I agree that the cycling ability of the fire/ice is better, relegating edict to the side for wish. This also goes with the "if your opponent plays their morphling, you've probably lost" theory, meaning don't fear not having it main.
Nice build and nice that you've addressed some needed improvements if the metagame shifts towards more gro/tog.
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Mith
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« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2003, 01:18:51 pm » |
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The 3rd waste instead of a dustbowl I can understand...but Future Sight I'm skeptical about. I've tried it out in keeper before, and while it is an auto win if it resolves, it was more often a pain to play it. I will agree though, Braingeyser has been less than optimal for me lately, and gets boarded out more often than not. Perhaps I'll give it another try
I still think that four StP (2 main and 2 sb) is the way to go...at least when you see as much aggro in your enviornment as I do (and so little control).
On the Island issue: has running less duals led to any problems with the mana base? I'll admit that I fear the bloodmoon, but I fear mana screw even more. Especially since I run a Moat in the board. Why not just run one island and up the number of tundras to four?
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PucktheCat
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« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2003, 01:28:29 pm » |
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I like the changes. I have a few questions for you.
1. What do you side in the Plaguebearer against? You mentioned manlands and Dreadnought, so I assume Mask and Fish are on the list. How about Gro(-a-Tog)? Hulk Smash? Weenie decks? TnT? Obviously these get progressively worse, but I am curious where your testing shows the cutoff to be for this innovative choice.
2. You are currently accepting one card that is virtually dead against everything but sligh (ZOrb) and one that is weak against everything but sligh, but cycles (Fire/Ice). LoA suggested Powder Keg and Renewed Faith for these slots. This would seem to be almost strictly superior to your choice for all matchups except sligh and not much worse for the sligh games, considering how important artifacts are to the new sligh builds.
I read SilverKing's response on this issue in the other thread, but he is basing it on dead cards against control. Since you are already accepting a dead card against control might you consider the other arrangement, which seems stronger vs. the feild right now, and leaves you in a virtually identical position for the mirror?
Leo
Edit: This is just to acknowledge that I am offically a moron for not being able to make the connection between the B in Psychatog's casting cost and the 'non-black' in Plaguebearer's ability.
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Zherbus
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« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2003, 01:38:42 pm » |
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Quote I can't see the zombie in the SB be that good. Besides killing Dreadnoughts, tokens and manlands, what else does it do? If a creature costs two mana you'll have to spend 4B to kill it with the plaguebearer!
I may be wrong, but although Peacekeeper doesn't kill creatures, it seems a lot more effective vs them than Plaguebearer is.
How good has it been anyway? So far so good, though its not like I have used it for months. This is only a few weeks old as an addition. I like it over Peacekeeper because while Peacekeeper stalls and costs you mana, Plaguebearer kills threats (albeit alot more mana, but its a free Dark Banishing every turn). If I cut it, I'm sure the world will know. Quote Plaguebearer! I love it I've got to hear more about how that card ends up working out for you in the SB.
About dropping a card for that 2nd maindec StP: Do you still feel that Fire/Ice good enough? Is it better than a maindeck edict...which can take out that Tog or dreadnought in a pinch? Dropping Fire/Ice would really be hard for me to do. I tap things way more than I Fire things in all honesty. It's been a Time Walk many times, and is STILL great against common aggro. Edict is much weaker in that its rather questionable against aggro and Misdirectable. Quote Yep, it was me who mentioned getting screwed by the dust bowl.
I've recently been testing the second swords in place of fire/ice but found myself often holding too many dead swords in the mirror, so I agree that the cycling ability of the fire/ice is better, relegating edict to the side for wish. This also goes with the "if your opponent plays their morphling, you've probably lost" theory, meaning don't fear not having it main.
Nice build and nice that you've addressed some needed improvements if the metagame shifts towards more gro/tog. Yeah, ok good. I didn't want to cross my quotes here. It got me thinking, and the more I thought about it the Gro-a-Tog vs. Keeper matchup can often come down to LoA wars. Keeper can solve that while GAT cannot. Quote The 3rd waste instead of a dustbowl I can understand...but Future Sight I'm skeptical about. I've tried it out in keeper before, and while it is an auto win if it resolves, it was more often a pain to play it. I will agree though, Braingeyser has been less than optimal for me lately, and gets boarded out more often than not. Perhaps I'll give it another try.
Like I said, I'm not 100% sold on it either but so far it's been the shit. It has been really good to me. Quote On the Island issue: has running less duals led to any problems with the mana base? I'll admit that I fear the bloodmoon, but I fear mana screw even more. Especially since I run a Moat in the board. Why not just run one island and up the number of tundras to four? I have been running the 2 Islands for 4-5 months now and I have rarely gotten color screwed IRL. On apprentice I get fucked no matter what which is why I loathe that software, but no problems in actual games outside of drawing Wastes against mono-green deck and not seeing a second source of blue mana in one matchup once  . It has been really good to me since running a pair of Brainstorms effectively makes the mana ratio higher in the deck, the colored mana sources arent hurt on a percentage to draw into them. EDIT: Quote 1. What do you side in the Plaguebearer against? You mentioned manlands and Dreadnought, so I assume Mask and Fish are on the list. How about Gro(-a-Tog)? Hulk Smash? Weenie decks? TnT? Obviously these get progressively worse, but I am curious where your testing shows the cutoff to be for this innovative choice.
It sucks against Tog because Tog is a black creature. I have brought it in against Masknought, a Zoo-ish type thing, Stompy, and Fish. It's obviously terrible against mono-black and pretty bad against Sligh as it just gets burned and you already run enough critter kill to control their hordes. Quote 2. You are currently accepting one card that is virtually dead against everything but sligh (ZOrb) and one that is weak against everything but sligh, but cycles (Fire/Ice). LoA suggested Powder Keg and Renewed Faith for these slots. This would seem to be almost strictly superior to your choice for all matchups except sligh and not much worse for the sligh games, considering how important artifacts are to the new sligh builds. I have talked Renewed Faith vs. Zuran Orb to death already. My reasons to keep it is that it has won games against things other than Sligh. It buys time game 1 against Gro-a-Tog then you side it out when you have more removal and REB's. It buys time against TnT, which you sometimes need when you can't stop the beats quite fast enough. Also, I am the self-proclaimed king of Balance-Zorb. It is NOT a clear cut issue either way, regardless. Fire/Ice I just talked about above. Quote I read SilverKing's response on this issue in the other thread, but he is basing it on dead cards against control. Since you are already accepting a dead card against control might you consider the other arrangement, which seems stronger vs. the feild right now, and leaves you in a virtually identical position for the mirror?
There is less Keeper run everywhere for the time being. I am also confident in the mirror against most Keeper players to be honest. The 2 main Keeper players near me play near identical versions of my deck and we are less worried about our mirrors than we are of stopping the flood of aggro control.
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Mon, Goblin Chief
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« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2003, 09:58:46 pm » |
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I tested Future Sight, too, after it came out and I didn't like it in a normal version of Keeper. I did test it in a different spot, but I feel for Future Sight to be good you have to build your deck around it more. If you do, you get a kind of combo-control deck, not true control any more. Therefor I did cut it again. If I ever drop GrimPower (nobody start an argument about that, thanks), I MIGHT test it again over Braingeyser, but I feel FS is not worth it in "usual" Keeper.
Plaguebearer is a great idea, after what you mentioned I don't feel the need for it though. I don't see enough small nonblack non-Sligh critters for my liking around. I'll definitly keep it in mind, though.
edit: I decided the same on Edict vs StP, it is replaced since a few days. I personally never liked F/I though, it usually didn't have enough of an impact when I tested it. So I don't play it for like forever. Maybe I'm doing something wrong with it...
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Zherbus
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« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2003, 11:12:40 pm » |
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I was also up until the last month or so, one of the biggest voices against Future Sight. I had tested it before and wasn't too pleased with it until I gave it a second look.
"If it resolves, you are winning anyways."
"I'd rather draw real cards with geyser."
Etc.
Now, I feel the card REALLY needs to be re-examined. It simply WINS everytime it resolves and that in of itself is worthy of a second glance in my book.
As for Plaguebearer, I imagine the card would be pretty shitty over in Germany with a virtual absence of Masknought, Gay Fish, Zoo, and Stompy from the metagame.
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Freddie
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« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2003, 12:32:51 am » |
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It doesn't win everytime it resolves, you have just gotten lucky with it.
I have seen real games were keeper has lost with a 1st turn Furure sight a few times, and in my own testing lost with it on the table for a few turns.
With all of the reactive cards in keeper future sight should not consistantly kick ass.
I am surprised that you are reconsidering it.
As far as the other 3 slots that were altered, I think that it all boils down to metagame.
Plaguebearer is novel ... again metagame though.
-Freddie
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leviat
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« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2003, 12:41:29 am » |
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Plaguebearer I'd like to point out that Plaguebearer is actually pretty damn good against TnT. While this is not strictly an arguement for it's usefullness in keeper, Pb can kill Welder's, Rangers, Lyrists, and Bouncers.
It has also won me games against Parfait that I would have lost.
Future Sight As a Gro'ATog player, all I can say is sick. Carl was playtesting against me, we got into a huge counter war and he was left with nothing in hand while I had a Misdirection in mine. What does he topdeck? Future Sight. He went from no chance to winning just like that. I'm totally sold on this card.
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Freddie
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« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2003, 01:25:23 am » |
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Did you have the 5 mana to hard cast the Misdirection?
Sounds like he just got lucky.
He could have top decked a Morphling, or a Yawg Will, or a Balance (depending on the Situation), or if you were tappe3d out he could have geysered or the like.
-Freddie
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leviat
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« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2003, 01:40:38 am » |
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Well, I was playing Gro'ATog, so I would have pitched a Sleight to Cast it or a Counterspell (didn't have any mana open).
I think it might come right down to pure card advantage. A Braingeyer for five mana will net you three extra cards that turn. A Future Sight however is going to net you a lot more extra cards for the same initial investmant.
It's a tough call but I think it's best advantage is probably just that it's not misdirectable. In today's metagame, that's a pretty nice bonus.
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Methuselahn
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« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2003, 02:28:20 am » |
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I'll add to the current hype of plaugebearer:
You'd have to throw it in with power artifact + grim monolith. Surely it would make a great sideboard card with builds using this keeper combo. Any results on this or is it pretty much redundant when you could be holding any 'X' spell for killing.
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MarkPharaoh
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« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2003, 02:46:58 am » |
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Quote 2. Future Sight - Honestly, with the amount of Misdirecting aggro-control stomping around everywhere, Braingeyser got a whole lot weaker. I'm not 100% sold on going with Geyser or Future Sight, but at the moment Future Sight is severly kicking some ass. Its casting cost has gotten me once, but I wont hold it against the card since I still won that game. Right now, its like running a second Yawgmoths will since you win when it resolves and you go apeshit on your opponent when you can...oh yeah, it can't be misdirected.  I love this card, my friend runs Keeper here and he bitch smacks aggro around whenever this card hits. It's just downhill from the moment it hits for aggro. I think you should try out Future Sight+Fastbond+Zorb to get you through your deck faster and not lose life in the process, just a thought haven't done testing myself but Future Sight alone can swing and probably win games for you upon resolving.
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Zherbus
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« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2003, 10:07:17 am » |
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Quote I have seen real games were keeper has lost with a 1st turn Furure sight a few times, and in my own testing lost with it on the table for a few turns.
With all of the reactive cards in keeper future sight should not consistantly kick ass.
I am surprised that you are reconsidering it.
As far as the other 3 slots that were altered, I think that it all boils down to metagame.
People have lost after resolving Yawgmoths Will too, but it's rare. I said I still wasn't 100% on this card, but the fact that it DOES win everytime I cast it isn't luck dependant. You still have to play it out, but when you just blow through your deck, especially Keeper, you get tons of bonus broken things. Honestly, if that Keeper player lost with it after getting it out on turn 1, something went terribly wrong. In the instance of Carl vs. Leviat, it was cut over Braingeyser and that Geyser would have been Misdirected. That is just one reason to run this over Geyser. Quote He could have top decked a Morphling, or a Yawg Will, or a Balance (depending on the Situation), or if you were tappe3d out he could have geysered or the like.
Think in terms of THAT slot in Keeper. Morphling #1, Will, and Balance could have already been countered. FS is yet another bomb Keeper could have. I don't mind being disagreed with at all, in fact I encourage it for discussions sake. It allows me a chance to validate my card choices, but you gave me absolutely no basis to argue with. Instead, all I got was an Impulse Keeper player from Kansas telling me I just get lucky and that his Keeper, which looks nothing like mine, can't win with Future Sight out turn 2. Quote I love this card, my friend runs Keeper here and he bitch smacks aggro around whenever this card hits. It's just downhill from the moment it hits for aggro. I think you should try out Future Sight+Fastbond+Zorb to get you through your deck faster and not lose life in the process, just a thought haven't done testing myself but Future Sight alone can swing and probably win games for you upon resolving. I won't be ever putting Fastbond in Keeper. Ever. Like I said, if I can't win with Future Sight out, then there was nothing extra cards could do (same with Geyser I might add) or something went terribly wrong (which could be me being a horrible player or just getting land, land, land, land, land).
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drg`
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« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2003, 11:30:31 am » |
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I just wanted to chime on the effect plaguebarrer had for me this weekend at TMD Invitational. I found that it single handily won me a Game verses landstill and would have dominated the game verses merfolk that I lost had I drawn it. It a very solid card verses deck you don't expect to see often in addition to those that you do like mask / gro / etc. I would definitely recommend using it if your running keeper / hulk etc. JP mentioned that he was going to run 2 in Hulk because he liked it so much. Also future sight was lights out when I cast it verses control. It would of been lights out verses merfolk but I was to low on life at the time, and made a misplay not countering something, assuming I would have the removal, which was 1 turn to slow. Also I found dust bowl very useful all weekend as it won me a game verses Landstill and helped a lot verses Merfolk. I still think it has a place verses those decks, but I can see you cutting it to help the more prevalent Gro-A-Tog matchups.
Mike
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Diablos8
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« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2003, 12:37:55 pm » |
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I also used Plaguebearer at the TMD invitational. The card is sooooo fun. I played Legion, and Plaguebearer single-handedly won me 2 rounds(both against Red Stompy).
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routedashf
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« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2003, 12:40:45 pm » |
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So would it be reasonable to assume that Plaguebearer would be stronger than Gorilla Shaman maindeck in an environment with more fast aggro and fewer moxes?
Regarding Future Sight - I hate to stoke my ego, but I said this was strong in Keeper the first time I saw the card. I might have posted here, but probably not. I know I tried it in my Keeper over the Geyser, and it was way broken. It's more card economy than "I win", though the winning part usually happens.
Regarding Dust Bowl - This was only really broken in the mirror and only when I was already winning (ie, drew more cards, so I had more lands). I would replace it with a wasteland as well.
Zherbus, how's the deck working with no maindeck disenchant effect, still? Do you ever miss it, or does it just not matter in most matchups? How does the new version do against the Unrestricted-Berserk-Enabled GroAtog or Hulk Smash? What about AnkhSligh?
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Smmenen
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« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2003, 12:58:24 pm » |
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Quote (Zherbus @ Mar. 08 2003,10:38)Yeah, ok good. I didn't want to cross my quotes here. It got me thinking, and the more I thought about it the Gro-a-Tog vs. Keeper matchup can often come down to LoA wars. Keeper can solve that while GAT cannot. Who or what gave you this impression? GAT really only uses LoA against Keeper in an incredibly narrow set of circumstances: 1) Opening hand turn one LoA 2) Mid-to Late game Gush up to 7 (rare) 3) Going off and you just feel like it. (stupid) LoA is used by GAT like everything else that GAT has - a good card it just throws out there to get some fast card advantage but that it would gladly sacrifice (that is dip below 7) for some greater benefit.\n\n
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Freddie
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« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2003, 01:12:01 pm » |
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Quote I don't mind being disagreed with at all, in fact I encourage it for discussions sake. It allows me a chance to validate my card choices, but you gave me absolutely no basis to argue with. Instead, all I got was an Impulse Keeper player from Kansas telling me I just get lucky and that his Keeper, which looks nothing like mine, can't win with Future Sight out turn 2. Oh, is that all I am? Play what you want... obviously that was what you were going to do anyway. I do have basis to argue with, if you do not wish to listen to my advise so be it. Do not belittle me. -Freddie
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Zherbus
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« Reply #21 on: March 09, 2003, 01:16:19 pm » |
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@Smmenen: Ok, sure I'll clarify. If Gro-a-Tog gets LoA, it can abuse it more than most decks as its hand is almost always full. If you boil the deck down, its draws come from Gush, Ancestral, Brainstorming unneeded cards into good cards (gushed lands for example), and LoA. Shutting off Gushs and Ancestral are just as important as shutting off LoA, but the point I was getting across is that I thinkwhile Gush is a bigger threat since there is more of them, the single most damaging card in the control game is LoA. On the Keeper side of things, it is the only card that can't be answered to with by Gro-a-Tog. Keeping it active is very important which is why I say much of the matchups can be decided on who gets an active LoA. @Freddie: Oh christ, cut it out. You gave NO reasoning. NONE. Give some sort of theory other than 'You just get lucky and it doesn't work for me despite playing in a metagame that looks nothing like yours with a deck that looks nothing like yours.' You took what I said way to personally and still gave no arguement worth discussing. Mon brought up the discussion that it may not be quite as optimal as it could be in 'normal keeper' as many of the cards aren't built around it. It's something worth considering, and may very well change some other slots in the deck if I feel I can afford to. I can certainly handle debating pluses and minuses of running a card and whether it applies to a specific metagame, but I cannot tolerate 2 posts that add up to nothing but implying I get lucky and shouldn't run a card just because. Don't ever assume I am belittling you. I would think most people know me better than that. If you want to banter back and forth on that issue, PM me and keep it between us. @routedashf: On Future Sight: I felt that way before Gro-a-Tog was misdirecting everything Keeper threw at it. I think it was more of a change in environment more than it was a change of heart. Quote Zherbus, how's the deck working with no maindeck disenchant effect, still? Do you ever miss it, or does it just not matter in most matchups? How does the new version do against the Unrestricted-Berserk-Enabled GroAtog or Hulk Smash? What about AnkhSligh? I haven't missed the disenchant effect because the Wishes still take care of that need for me. They work for some people and don't work for others, but as long as Wishes turn a potential semi-dead enchantment kill spell into spot removal or a REB, I'll keep on rocking with them. Unrestricted-Berserk-Enabled GroAtog is just a bit better than it was before and I STILL haven't played against Hulk Smash. Ankh Sligh...I DO wish I had a maindeck Pulse or Dismantling Blow to be honest, but not enough that I would change the deck.
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Azhrei
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« Reply #22 on: March 09, 2003, 01:52:42 pm » |
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I like how Zherbus is both "just getting lucky" AND the one accused of belittling.
Take THAT, logic!
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rozetta
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« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2003, 01:54:20 pm » |
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I was updating my Keeper sideboard this afternoon (I acquired some interesting asian bb cards recently). I've never run a CoP:Black in side before, desipte the heavy presence of Sui in our metagame, however, I stopped and looked at it twice. Why? I was wondering if Cop:Black in the sideboard might actually be some tech versus GAT?
The question is are they going to automatically side in naturalizes game 2 versus keeper? I'm not hugely familiar with GAT's sideboarding practises except from what I read from Smmenen's article, which only really covers the duress aspect.
Anyways, just some random thoughts...
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Amosw99
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« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2003, 01:59:11 pm » |
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I am no keeper god as I have only been playing it for about 6 months and my build looks very different from zherbus's (i run grim/power, impulses, more tutors, etc.), but I think that future sight is a very good idea that needs more testing. I am also very scared of getting geyser misdirected and randomly losing and was thinking about goin back to something like Jaymdae tome even to combat all the aggro control.
Anyway, after that experiment failed terribly I went grudgingly back to the geyser. To me, Future Sight looks to me like the Jaymdae Tome on crack that I want. I have always liked the idea of investing mana inot something early to get card advantage in the future. I will be testing Sight out in my keeper and will report back at the end of the month.
On a completely different note, what are the advantages of having 2 islands over just one? I've been playing with one and it is almost always enough to deal with a bloodmoon unless I am in a really bad position when it drops.
Amos
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dtower
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« Reply #25 on: March 09, 2003, 02:04:47 pm » |
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Quote Think in terms of THAT slot in Keeper. Morphling #1, Will, and Balance could have already been countered. FS is yet another bomb Keeper could have. I have a slight problem with this statement. If a Will, a Fling and Balance are already countered, does that not effect Future Sight's usefulness? Those are three cards I would personally want Future Sight to aid me in finding as they are three of the more powerful options Keeper has. While I will not argue that Sight is still tight even with those gone, it just seems as if it would be less powerful with a chunk of the cards that swing games already gone. I know it's very possible to live without any of those cards, it's just a bit harder to win with one real win condition left even if you are able to get massive card advantage going. I won't say Stroke is a win here as Sight will probably mean you burn through your deck way too fast to make a victory Stroke too much of an option. My other problem with Sight was that it always seemed as if a very skilled player could play around it a bit by using the information Sight gives him and always not allowing you to get too much of an advantage (ie: a Mana Drain is the top card, the opponent will let you draw the Drain before casting a spell so as not to give you card advantage). Bah, what do I know though? I'm sitting here after being awake for a few days and trying not to ramble.
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Matt The Great
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« Reply #26 on: March 09, 2003, 02:24:42 pm » |
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Future Sight feels a lot more like LoA than Geyser. Perhaps people are comparing it to the wrong card?
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Azhrei
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« Reply #27 on: March 09, 2003, 02:33:08 pm » |
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I think that the real benefit to Future Sight is that it cannot be Misdirected. With several decks running 3-4 Misdirections, a spell that can bypass that risk and still net card advantage has potential.
I think this is going to come down to a metagame call. If you see a lot of TnT or Mask, the decks running 4 Misdirections will have a bunch of dead cards, but against Sligh, Suicide, or Keeper they are very useful. So, if you are playing Keeper and expect to see Misdirections, Future Sight may well prove to be the card for you.
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Radagast
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« Reply #28 on: March 09, 2003, 02:41:41 pm » |
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How about running Skeletal Scrying maindeck? It also can't be misdirected, is an instant, and also has the slight benefit of letting you recycle things with Wish.
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Azhrei
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« Reply #29 on: March 09, 2003, 02:45:25 pm » |
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SliverKing and I ran Skeletal Scrying in our sideboards for some time; it's not a maindeck card but it is quite good in the board.
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