[Deck Discussion] JP Meyers newest Psychatog Variant

[jpmeyer]

Wait, what?  Mana Drain is the most important card in the deck...

[Jacob Orlove]

I know this may turn out to be an absurd question, but I noticed a debate in GAT, which may not be at all necesary here, since this is Hulk.  Some have argued that Counterspell or even Daze may be preferred in the Mana Drain slot.  What are your opinions on this?

Also, if Counterspell is a consideration, then would Voidmage Prodigy be worth exploring?

Those decks don't have mana sinks. This one does.

[JohnnyToxic]

As I believe it to be said already on this thread, Sol Ring eats a colored mana to cast, while Mana Crypt is free of charge. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this Hulk wants to "go off" as quickly as possible. Sol Ring, while giving you colorless mana, shuts down your colored land if played first turn instead of the Crypt. And, like all 'Tog variants I've been seeing, Hulk is extremely dependant on colored mana to further its game plan.

John

[verduran]

where did stifle go? what were your thoughts when you decided not to run stifle MD nor SB?

And what's with the Last Word SB? Various people asked but I don't think you answered yet...

Btw, great deck!

[jpmeyer]

Stifle was way too situational

[Methuselahn]

Obviously this version, and Smmenen's other version, have been tweaked by removing Wastelands, Stifles, a Duress, and adding Mana Crypt.  (If I remember correctly, there was 4 Duress at one point.)  Also, Gush seems better because it is free of requiring mana, thus lending itself to the whole concept of a faster Tog deck that pushes through for the win.  

This fundamental concept makes me question LoA.  Obviously it breaks control mirrors, but has it become weaker in the deck?  If so, how much?

[jpmeyer]

LoA is fine here since you have enough colored mana that you don't have to worry about one more colorless land.

EDIT: Looks like my article will be waiting till Monday

[Mixing Mike]

I've noticed that Gush is stronger in Steve's list because his is based on a smaller mana base while making sure every draw will keep you drawing stuff, or making your opponent have to have an answer for everything you do.

Fact or Fiction is stronger in JP's build because it relies more on the card quality rather than just having cards.  It's like that Land Tax thing in 'The Classics' thread.

LoA is very good in the deck.  At worst it takes out a Wasteland in your oppoents deck unless you're already losing when you get it.

[Tim the Enchanter]

I hate to ask this...but can this deck run on a Budget and still compete with powered T1 decks? Here is a version I came up with based off JP's:

Main Deck:

4   Polluted Delta
4   Underground Sea
4   Volcanic Island
4   Island
1   Swamp
1   Strip Mine
3   Wasteland
   
3   Null Rod
   
3   Psychatog
   
3   Stifle
4   Counterspell
4   Force of Will
4   Brainstorm
4   Accumulated Knowledge
2   Intuition
3   Cunning Wish
1   Vampiric Tutor   
   
4   Duress
1   Demonic Tutor
1   Mind Twist
1   Yawgmoth's Will
   
1       Fire/Ice


SB:

1   Chain of Vapor
3   Back to Basics
1       Deep Analysis
1   Mystical Tutor
1   Fact or Fiction
1   Gush
1   Coffin Purge
1   Fling
2   Fire/Ice
1   Rack and Ruin
1   REB
1   BEB



With null rods, wastes, and stifles, as well as SB B2B this deck should be able to seriously rape any mana base (execpt mono-color of course). The null rods help out with some otherwise scary matches (slaver, any artifact based deck).

Since Berserk is out of my range I scrapped green for red. Red gave me Fling, a cheap replacement for berserk - same effect for one more mana and is a little more versitile as well. Fire/Ice, rack and ruin, REB are in the SB. The only thing I don't like about the lack of green is the loss of deed - which was replaced with Fire/Ice.

I'm not sure about if I want to switch the mystical and vampiric - need to do some more testing.

Any thoughts/suggestions??

[jpmeyer]

No.  It simply does not work at all as a budget deck

[Wollblad]

@jpmeyer
I saw that your opponent in the final played Trinisphere. How was it to play against and what was your strongest weapon against Trinisphere?
By the way, I would still like an explaination on the inclusion of Last Word.

[jpmeyer]

The Last Word explanation is really long.  Since my article got pushed to Monday (there's a lot of stuff today and Monday is a bigger traffic day anyway,) I'll just C/P it here so we don't have to wait another couple days:

The lategame is also the reason that I included Last Word in the sideboard (Darksteel was allowed at this tournament even though it doesn?t become legal in sanctioned tourneys until next month.)  It almost doesn?t matter that the spell costs 2UU, because once you reach the lategame you?re bound to have plenty of extra colorless mana that really isn?t useful in a counter war anyway.  The lategame almost always revolves around resolving a single spell, usually something like Will or Twist or Balance, which because of the fact that the game was gone on for a large number of turns, makes those cards almost instantly deadly because of the number of turns that they erased or duplicated.  With Last Word thrown into the mix, it requires the other deck to do a lot more setting up in order for them to be able to resolve their game winning spell, which in the meantime allows you to either win or to ?win.?

If that sounds like it's missing a little, sorry.  Like I said, it's based heavily on the roles of each control deck and such and I'm not going to C/P an entire article here to explain that.

My best weapons against Trinisphere were:

1) Going first.  Trinisphere blows if they go second
2) Just playing Psychatog and winning.  Trinisphere doesn't make him any more expensive
3) Force of Will

[jazzykat]

OK I still have reservations about cutting red, but with all the non-basic hating mofos that seem to be in the NE, I may use basic land tech.

Where does the b2b come in: Keeper, 4 color tog, landstill (he he) and where else. You wouldn't use them vs. Workshop.dec would you?


Also, dropping tog is an amazing play (said unsarcastically). I tested against my friends green lando again, I managed to get tog out, and he destroyed almost all my land. Guess who won? Me! He didn't draw any of his argothian wurms, so his terrivores (I eat my land....umm...delisc!), and elves were tog food. Tog = Amazing Creature Removal

Also, you aren't running a ton of basics, is it still worth the B2B sideboard. Right now I am using a hybrid of steves and yours, and still liking the safety blanket of the red.

Steve's List:
4 Duress
4 Mana Drain
4 Force of Will

4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Intuition
4 Brainstorm

3 Tog
3 Cunning Wish

1 GUSH
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Deep Analysis
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Mind Twist

1 Pernicious Deed

4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
2 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
5 Moxen
1 MANA CRYPT
1 Black Lotus

My MD mod (to stabilize my mana base in the face of hate and disruption):
-1 Merchant Scroll
-1 Deep
+1 Island
+1 Strip Mine

SB: (not finalized)
1 Berserk
 
1 Vampiric Tutor

1 Artifact Mutation (1,2,3 CC artifact destruction around chalice and for all different mana scenarios, steve said it best)
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Crumble
1 Rack and Ruin

1 Pernicious Deed (...mostly aggro, prison)
1 Coffin Purge (dragon)
2 DA (for control mirrors)
1 Fire Ice (Utility, randomly helpful, tap a maze, kill welders etc)
1 FOF (Wishable draw, maybe there could be something better)
1 Stifle (dragon, keeper, freaking wasteland knocking out a color!!!)
1 Naturalize (I need an answer to everything: rootmaze, sotf)

[jpmeyer]

Those are pretty much all the decks I side B2B in against.  I'd probably also side it in against U/R Fish.  You could try bringing it in against TnT, but that's mostly since Duress isn't that great there rather than B2B really being good.

Also, dropping tog is an amazing play (said unsarcastically). I tested against my friends green lando again, I managed to get tog out, and he destroyed almost all my land. Guess who won? Me! He didn't draw any of his argothian wurms, so his terrivores (I eat my land....umm...delisc!), and elves were tog food. Tog = Amazing Creature Removal

Exactly!  People don't think about this nearly enough.  Tog isn't Morphling.  He doesn't require a lot of maintenance to be amazing.  You can just drop him and win.  While I wouldn't expect to see mono-green LD at a tourney any time, that matchup that you played out is a perfect example of how Tog can subtly make a lot more of your opponent's cards bad than he thinks.  Killing your land isn't going to stop your Tog here.  In fact, it makes him even better since he can eat the land in order to kill a creature in combat.

The reason that I don't like red as much is because red cards are ones that you want to cast if you've been spending too much time dicking around, and you shouldn't be dicking around.  Why do you need to kill 2 artifacts?  You've either just been letting the game go on too long or you're getting greedy.  I bet you don't really need to kill both of those.  Why do you need to kill two small creatures?  Again, you've either been dicking around too long (if they're like multiple Welders or something) or you're scared of cards that you shouldn't be scared of.  It's that sort of thing.

Four basics is plenty.  With four I can still cast a spell with U in the CC and Drain back without needing to tap nonbasics.

[Tim the Enchanter]

About Last Word...well, it can't be relied on to really be the last word - it can be misdirected, right?

[jpmeyer]

It can but I haven't seen a Misdirection in anything outside of Fish in a long time.

[verduran]

so what's the big SB strategy? do you side in useful matchup related cards, or do you keep the in your SB to wish for?

[jpmeyer]

Side in whatever I can fit

[verduran]

thus effectively weakening cunning wishes after game 1? or do you side them out?

[jpmeyer]

There are a lot fewer cards that you need to access.  I'm usually not Wishing for FoF, for instance because it's game breaking but because it's good.  I'll keep like 1 or 2 Wishes around in case for some reason I suddenly need access to like Berserk or Naturalize or something.