[Deck Discussion] Does bazaar have a place in control?

[Lucentspirit]

The last month or so I've been playing with the idea of running the Bazaar of Baghdad/Squee, Goblin Nabob combo in a control deck.
      It's hard to ignore how powerful a draw engine bazaars can be and control is largely based on gaining a card advantage over it's opponent.
       A few weeks ago I tried a U/G build in the Columbus tournament with mixed results. Since then I've switched green to red and like the deck much better. I thought I'd post it and see if anyone out there might have tried something similar or might have any suggestions on improving the deck.

MAD PHID?.......

Mana:

    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Lotus Petal
    5 Island
    4 Volcanic Island
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Mountain

Draw Engine:

    4 Bazaar of Baghdad
    4 Squee, Goblin Nabob
    2 Deep Analysis
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Gush
    2 Ophidian

Burn:

    3 Fire/Ice
    2 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Fiery Temper

Counter:

    4 Mana Drain
    4 Force of Will
    2 Foil

The Kill:
   2 Morphling

Other spells:
    1 Time Walk
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Stifle


I don't have a sideboard yet, but I think Teferi's Response, Null rod, and Stifle are likely candidates. Wastelands can be a big problem for this deck and Slaver (very common around here) just begs for null rod to be played.

[RoadTrippin]

Nick (BilltheDuck) played something along the lines of what you're thinking in a B/U(/w?) control deck using Psychatog to do the dirty deeds done dirt cheap and the Bazaar/Squee engine to add to his beef/add to the draw power.

[Eastman]

Nick (BilltheDuck) played something along the lines of what you're thinking in a B/U(/w?) control deck using Psychatog to do the dirty deeds done dirt cheap and the Bazaar/Squee engine to add to his beef/add to the draw power.

I'm surprised you remember that.


Yah Nick built this awhile back. It was terrible and me/GI convinced him to put it away.

[JuJu]

I tested something along these lines awhile ago with Psychatog and more Deep Anals, etc. It drawed like mad, died to Wasteland and didn't have space in it. That's about it.

[Spizzard]

Bazaar without Squee, is card disadvantage.  You'd need two squees for a +1 card gain.  Sure, there may be few positions where you could absolutly abuse bazaar with squees in control, but the majority of the time, you will only be breaking even.

Wasting 8 slots for card draw that will mostly break even (card quality) is not worth it.  Card draw in control needs to do just that.... draw as many cards as possible.

[jpmeyer]

Also, you're only running 18 mana sources in a control deck.  Tog runs like 24 and Keeper runs 26.  There's no way you can get away with that.

[theorigamist]

Bazaar of Baghdad doesn't give you more cards, it just lets you choose from more cards.  This is a powerful effect, but in the three decks in which Bazaar is used, the discard is also useful.  Using just for the card choosing makes it kind of not worth it, in my opinion.

[Smmenen]

The infestation deck is not bad at all.  I would consider it a solid tier two deck - it was piloted by players in the Dulmen last year - but it must be viewed as inferior to other decks out there at the moment.

As for Bazaar in control, at Dual Lotus Tourney I saw for the first time Thirst for Knowledge in GroAtog used with Deep Analysis and it was disgusting.

Steve

[MarkPharaoh]

Bazaar without Squee, is card disadvantage.  You'd need two squees for a +1 card gain.  Sure, there may be few positions where you could absolutly abuse bazaar with squees in control, but the majority of the time, you will only be breaking even.

Wasting 8 slots for card draw that will mostly break even (card quality) is not worth it.  Card draw in control needs to do just that.... draw as many cards as possible.

I agree that Bazaar shouldn't be here, but I don't think this is a good reason why.  If you break even, you break even.  You have cards like DA to pitch and even if you just break even you just throw cards away that you don't need and draw into ones that you do.  With that said, I don't like Bazaar in control because in the mirror, if they have that Waste your pretty much screwed in most situations.

[Irish31]

Logic seems like a counter that should be looked at if you actually wanted to play this deck. Might not end up being usefull enough if they can pay it's cost 50/50 but it's worth looking at.

[Daniel_112]

Maybe you could play intuition? You can or search for bazaars or search for squee's. And the second one can fetch your D.A. out of your deck, i think it's really usefull.

[InsaneScrub]

Here is my version of tog with bizaar in it. I hope you enjoy, maybe you can garnish something from it.

Bazaar Tog By Gale (InsaneScrub)

4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
4 Volcanic Island
3 Bazaar of Baghdad
2 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Mox Saphire
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Emerald
4 Force of Will
3 Duress
2 Forbid
1 Disrupt
1 Stifle
1 Mind Twist
4 Accumulated Knowledge
2 Intuition
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Skeletal Scrying
1 Yawgmoth Will
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Merchant Scroll
1 Time Walk
3 Cunning Wish
3 Psychatog
3 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Gorilla Shaman

Sideboard~
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Coffin Purge
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Stifle
1 Disrupt
1 Naturalize
1 Rack and Ruin
1 Fire / Ice
1 Oxidize
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Vampiric tutor
1 (Metagame Slot)

I have noticed that the deck is insanely fast, and because of it's cheap mana casting cost of spells, I cut out mana drain, and went with forbid, and have found Disrupt to be an awesome card.  

I like the deck alot, though any critique is welcome.

[Eddie]

I doubt it will ever work. Anyway, I'm missing Circular Logic. A counter with madness seems perfect for your purposes.

[Meddling Mike]

It strikes me that in order to make the bazaars worth running, you need to include a number of "bazaar friendly cards" like squee/deep analysis/fiery temper. Now we're talking about a number of extra slots filled up just to make the bazaar an effective card in the deck and I just feel like those slots are better spent on the cards in existing control decks. I could see a deck like Insane Scrub's definitely having some potential as the increasing card quality while simultaneously providing Dr. Teeth with some more food could be powerful in helping him get to berserk kill range, which I noticed isn't present in his list. I'm not a tog player and don't keep up on it's ever evolving forms so it's quite possible that he has his own reasons that my ignorant self has clearly overlooked. I'm also not sure how powerful tog decks are now that control slaver has scored a major tournament win, A mindslaver activating and resolving is usually game over for the tog player, especially if the slaver player can get a tog in play.

[Razvan]

I'm also not sure how powerful tog decks are now that control slaver has scored a major tournament win, A mindslaver activating and resolving is usually game over for the tog player, especially if the slaver player can get a tog in play.

First, and vice-versa.

Secondly, just because one Slavery deck won doesn't mean it's automatically the top deck.

[jpmeyer]

A Mindslaver activating is game against just about every deck...

[Lucentspirit]

Also, you're only running 18 mana sources in a control deck. Tog runs like 24 and Keeper runs 26. There's no way you can get away with that.

Something I found while playtesting was that because you run though the cards in your library so quickly with this deck you can run less land. The squee/bazaar cards fill the spots of those mana sources. This also means your not really taking away 8 slots in the deck to put the combo in.
     I also tried to keep the casting cost of most of the spells in the deck at 2 or lower. What I'd really like to do is find a lower casting cost kill then morphling.

[Meddling Mike]

Secondly, just because one Slavery deck won doesn't mean it's automatically the top deck.

You're quite right Razvan, But I think it's halfway reasonable to assume that the deck will grow to be more popular as at the time of the tournament it only comprised a small percentage of the metagame, after two controlslaver decks made the top eight of a large tournament I think it's not going out on a limb to think that the number of people playing slaver decks will most likely take a jump.

A Mindslaver activating is game against just about every deck...

This is indeed normally the case, but certainly not always, I've definitely seen plenty of control slaver games go south even after a mindslaver turn. The Control Slaver player could run out of artifacts to welder into play, usually as the result of being pushed to take a slaver turn before the a more ideal scenario is available, and lose his slaver lock. Psychatog strikes me as one of those decks that just has GLARING weakness. Again it's been a while since I've seen an up to date deck with tog, but cards that I believe it runs like deep analysis and psychatog just allow for some sick tricks which I'm sure you are all aware of so I will not bore you with the details.

I don't for a moment claim to be an expert on any of the tog decks, so I'll make sure to throw in the disclaimer that my opinions regarding tog decks lack validity.