[Single Card Discussion] Mana Crypt, The $30 Mox

[Smmenen]

There will be no depression.  The prices are too high, but that is not without risk.  Any of the big name cards could be restricted.  A depression implies a collapse of the market - that simply is too unlikely.  

Steve

[Eastman]

I would reply to your comment Kerz, but since it's mostly a synthesis of what I've been saying, your words should suffice.


I doubt you'll find enough content for an article. Doing so would take a great deal of research. You also don't have the economic education to properly right such an article. If you DO really want to attempt the challenge, going to a university professor for advise after having done a great deal of research could be enlightening. A full analysis of the magic economy would certainly be interesting.

It is something that's going on, as I've said. I don't know that it's bad for the format however.

[Mith]

I wouldn't count on Mana Crypt skyrocketing in price any time soon. There are quite a few floating around still, and word isn't out to the masses yet. The main issue for me is the fact that the card is restricted...which means that there won't be a buying-frenzy of people trying to get their four crypts. For the moment, Ebay had one auction close at $41...but others ended anywhere from $20-35. Plus, most online stores are still selling them at $25 a piece.

Still, I'll be picking up a stack at $15 each....just in case
At the very least, the card should hit the $40's soon (SCG has them for $35 already, and that's bound to change fast)

[KSesler]

Price of cards unlikely to result in a dot com type meltdown anytime soon.

There are a couple of major reasons for the price rises of some of the top cards:

1) The dollar has dropped 40% vs. the Euro over the past 2 years, and 20-30% almost nearly every other currency.
Since Magic is an International game, a price rise of 30-40% can be explained by this reason alone.

2) The increasing popularity of Type 1 in general has increased the deman for these cards.

Regarding item #1, the dollar is unlikely to significantly rise anytime soon, especially given the massive current account balance we are running.

Regarding item #2, the popularity of Type 1 is still increasing at the moment.

So, unlike the dot com boom and bust of a few years ago and the great Tulip speculation of a few hundred years ago, the run up in prices is due to a lot more than hype, and a large "correction" is unlikely for the near future.

[Matt]

There will be no depression.  The prices are too high, but that is not without risk.  Any of the big name cards could be restricted.  A depression implies a collapse of the market - that simply is too unlikely.  

Steve

Yes, but what about the big name cards that are already restricted?

[Danzig]

They aren't hard to find. Toad and Troll in Kentucky has 42 of them for $25.

[DragonFire]

I don't think that they will go that high. When you add all the Workshops and the Drains together, you will not come on that much playsets (estimated 75.000 playsets of Mana Crypts). And not every player wan't to play the card either. I'll know much people playing it once died because of it one or two times and will never play them again in their builds. Most of the Mana Drains were used in Controllish Styled Decks like Landstill, Keeper or URPhidian, so fewer people really need them in their Decks.

For sure good type1 cards will never going to be cheaper, but the Mana Crypt will definitly be not the huge amount on the Scales.

When you look carefully through the Trading Binders of most old style casual players u will find a lot of them. People paying over 20$ this time are to lazy to search for them.

[KrauserKrauser]

Just got mine for 2 Squees.  I'm happy.

[Tha Gunslinga]

I've been predicting the rise of Mana Crypt for a while now, so I'm not surprised.  I can definitely see it hitting $50-100.

However, Mana Drain is NOT $100.  If you pay that much you're missing out on the $70-80 Drains on Ebay, English NM.  Italian Drains can still be found for around $55-60, too.

[wizmentor]

With the rise of the popularity of mana crypt, perhaps we should invent a new acronym...

Vwalla :lol:

9 SoLoCV Moxen
51 other cards

(C for Crypt, V for Vault).


peace,
     superdad

[RoadTrippin]

When I make my decks, I just use the term "9 combo mana", but then again I only really play combo.

Basically everyone has realized the price of Mana Crypt has been rising slightly as of recent events, and everyone seems to have known it was a T1 staple who's ass kicking factor we've just realized. Just because it's a fairly easy to come by (right now) staple of the format, does that mean people should stock up on them and make it harder for new players to obtain?

[johnstown713]

If we stock up on them and make it hard for new players to find then we have a monopoly and can create our own prices.  Go mana crypt  

[Lord_Drazinus]

I am in favor for, and opposed to attempting to monopoly on crypt.

As someone who has easy access to quite a few, and my "healthy" love for money, I say we all just stock up on them and make the prices for them go up and up...

As someone who lacks a majority of the expensive T1 staples(drains, shops, bazaars, and power) and is attempting to acquire these, I don't think it would be fair for the newer players to have to experience the same thing with Crypt...

[-Draz-]

[Meddling Mike]

Not to change the subject, but many vendors out there are starting corrupt the game's economy by owning too much of the print run and being able to control prices themselves, a monopoly of sorts. Also, if ebay doesn't stop soon, I think something very bad is going to happen, gradually. How can the prices of cards continue to go up with no effect? If dealers only think in the short term (which many are, and short term is defined as within the year), in a year or two everything will come to a point, with prices going so high that sales almost completely stop, and from there.... The great depression. This sounds like a typical broken record post, but I've seen the beginning. $100 drains.. $350 UNL Ancestrals... and things of that nature all are signaling towards this. Hell, in the past 3 months an average mox has gone from "around 200-225" to "around 250-275", and so on. Last year a mox was barely $150-175. Also, I lost track when Mana Drain went from a $50 card to a $100 card. That seemed like an awful jump. But, there is nothing people can do about it, and they will be forced to pay such ridiculous prices if they want to compete. Many people will, feeding the dealers even more. Then prices go up, and the cycle continues. One can only know the end.

I'm going to be writing an article about this soon, maybe I'll interveiw some non-corrupt big time dealers.

I don't think this is quite the same reasons on a smaller scale of what happened during the depression. The major problem that caused Black Tuesday was people buying on margin and losing sight of what stock really was. Magic cards, on the other hand, are only worth what people are willing to pay for them. Dealers only charge 350 for an UL ancestral because they know that's what they can get for it, when the price kills the demand, the price will come down, unfortunately for us unpowered folk, the demand seems to be increasing all the time. The hard question is "when is the price for a mox going to be so much that nobody's going to be able to, or want to, pay for it?"

[Iconorast]

30 dollars? my store still has one for sale for 13

looks like I'm gonna have to pick it up and QUICK.

[Magi]

One crucial difference that most people here fail to mention

Cards like Drain, Bazaar, Workshop, Mask

they are unrestricted, hence you use 4 of them or none at all.


How many people need 4 Crypts? Once you get one, you don't need anymore, unlike the other cards mentioned. Some people might want 2-3 extras for several decks, but it's not crucial to have extras.


Because of this I think that this would prevent the price of Crypts from reaching the $80-$100 level, but rather they would hit the $40-$50 dollar level that cards like Moat and The Abyss are in.

[LordLamneth]

I think the store by me has them for $20. I know they were that much like a year and a half ago, so I went home and checked eBay. $12 later, I had one. So now they're going for double that, huh? Gotta get to the store ASAP and see if they're still there.

Mana Crypt is quite broken. However, I have seen it hurt people bad in tournaments.

LordLamneth

[SpencerForHire]

From personal experience let me say, 6 damage is worth a win, don't you think,  If you can win a game for 6 damage, would you do it?  Potentially that is the most a Crypt has done to me in a game where i am playing wisely and not just stalling my own inevitable death.   I play crypt to win, I don't drop it whenver just because it won't cost anything.  
Part of cards that do damage is playing them smart.

[Iconorast]

yeah, I never drop it first turn unless I'm going to use it 3 or four times in the coming turns.

I usually do, anyway.

[Ric_Flair]

Magi:

Because of this I think that this would prevent the price of Crypts from reaching the $80-$100 level, but rather they would hit the $40-$50 dollar level that cards like Moat and The Abyss are in.

Mana Crypt is much more useful than those 1 of cards.  First it is an artifact, which automatically opens up decks that can use it.  Second, it is cheap to cast, again opening up more decks.  Finally, the decks that use The Abyss and Moat are singular.  Basically these are great SB cards used in old school Keeper in the main for meta reasons.  Crypt is fundamentally different.  It is more like a Mox than a Moat.

However the print run is quite high, 75,000.  I would say that in the future, once everyone sees how good this card is, the price will fall between $50 and $75.  $100 is not out of the question, but it would require the same unpward trajectory we have seen for the past 6 months to continue for a year or more from this point forward.  I don't see that happening.  The format will continue to grow, but it can't grow as fast as it has.  Either way, pick 'em now on the cheap and sell 'em later.

[stu55]

But also with that print run of 75,000, not all of them were redeemed and many have been obviously destroyed in various ways that all cards do.

That could make the availabilty of the cards significantly less.

[Smash]

I really hate crypt for 2 reasons

1) It is too much a pokemon card, and doesn't fit very well into the general magic theme

2) It really hates me. I play a LOT of artifact decks, and when I am forced to flip, I lose a good 80% of the time. Like I said, it hates me


@stu55: I believe it was 75k redeamed. WOTC used to publish facts to some degree on how many packs of a set sold. I am not sure where this estimate came from, but it was for cards REDEAMED not just books given out.

[Lord_Drazinus]

@smash: How can you say that this is too much like a pokemon card? because it has a coinflip? so what? and I"m sure as we all know...pokemon came after this card, so in reality, pokemon is too much like this card...also...either you have terrible luck...or you are only thinking of the many times in whcih you have been damaged by the card...and not remembering the times you haven't been damaged...in the former...there isnt much you can do...in the latter...well...taking some notes on every time you have to flip for the card is a way to look back at a tourney and see if it was too much of a problem(though I don't think I should have to be telling you this, because I get the feeling you do already)

[-Draz-]

[Smash]

Oh it just hates me. I took notes on gencon and lost ~75% over around 16 or 20 flips.

(and my luck isn't that bad, I had a really high turn1 kill rate with long, and in a 1.5 tourney a month ago, I played dragon and I got bazaar in my opening hand of 7 or 6 100% of the time).

I just don't like coinflip cards in magic, a cards effect should be constant, not variable (i.e. 2 damage a turn, but not 3 50% of the time). Because with crypt, sometimes it just sucks and you lose 4 in a row and lose the game. *shrug*