Article: Stealing Turns and Perms with Slavery in Type One

[Smmenen]

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=7082

Mindslaver, more so than any other card, has created a schism in the old definitions and blurred the lines between archetypes. In a single card, it has the effect of doing, in conjunction with as few as one other card, what it took a highly experienced and skilled Workshop Prison player many mulligans, tuning, and thoughtful plays to accomplish before. The results? Workshop Prison is a strictly inferior concept. Workshop Prison has to impact the board immediately ? while a Mindslaver deck can luxuriously idle until the moment that it springs forth and takes control of every turn in the game thereafter.

We forgot to change the MD list though - but as you all know we have LOA and Fact or Fiction in the MD.  Enjoy!  

Steve

[Kushluk]

Very nicely worded. Good article.

Although I have wondered for some time, why mindslaver? Yes, I know what it does. What I mean is, there are so many artifacts to break, why that one. Yes, I know, it is quite good. Don't give me that look.

I have been randomly experimenting with big artifacts to break in slaver's place, for example, Mirror Universe. The interesting thing about Verse is that it flips Slavers good and bad matches upside down to a degree.

*waits for the flames and abuse*

[jazzykat]

Well written.

I have yet to test this version carefully before making any further comments, although a rough guide on how to deal with matchups so I can start by looking at them the way you do is always appreciated and gives a good start for testing.

[Klep]

I greatly appreciated this article.  I'm a big fan of this archetype, and though I cannot play Workshop Slavery (not enough power/shops), I do enjoy reading about it and I have tried my hand at the Control variant.  It truly is amazing what Mindslaver can do to an opponent.  I slaved a guy playing Draw7.dec one game and at the end of the turn he had no permanents outside of a City of Brass and a nearly empty hand.

[BreathWeapon]

A very well written article, I must say. I noticed you didn't make mutch mention of Duplicant, considering you gave Trisk and the Angel half a paragraph each its a little odd that you said nothing (much) of the Duplicant in  the article.

[Ultima]

The article mentions having access to answers via cunning wish against Trinistax.  Are there are any builds or improvements that use cunnning wish now?  

If not, then how does slavery do without cunning wish for said answers in game 1 should stax go first and start dropping lock components or is force of will meant to be the gamebreaker?

[Rico Suave]

I find it interesting you say this deck mulligans the same amount as Tog.  I wouldn't even put them in the same league in terms of how often they mull.

[JuJu]

Steve, what did you Take out from the list in the article to fit FoF and LoA in? I enjoyed the article, it brought a better meaning to what Slaver is, compared to Toad's Primer(No Offense). One thing I'd like to know is what your sideboard looks like. On a related note, a week or two ago you were talking about some 7 man plan or something with Gorilla Shaman, RaR and something else, anyways, that's about it.

[Smmenen]

The article mentions having access to answers via cunning wish against Trinistax.  Are there are any builds or improvements that use cunnning wish now?  

If not, then how does slavery do without cunning wish for said answers in game 1 should stax go first and start dropping lock components or is force of will meant to be the gamebreaker?

If you resolve a Gilded Lotus Stax basically cannot win.  That's how good that matchup is for you.  If you go first you drop a Chalice 0 and they will have great difficulty.  Force of Will makes this match heavily asymetrical.

Steve

[Saucemaster]

I enjoyed the article, it brought a better meaning to what Slaver is, compared to Toad's Primer(No Offense).

Ahem...

"Stealing Turns and Perms with Slavery in Type One
by Stephen Menendian and Matthieu Durand"

I'll give you one guess who Matthieu Durand is.

[JuJu]

Saucemaster I know who MaTThieu is. I'm just saying with Steve's help in the article, it brought a better understanding. Duh!

Edit: For Matthieu

[Swanky]

Although I have wondered for some time, why mindslaver? Yes, I know what it does. What I mean is, there are so many artifacts to break, why that one. Yes, I know, it is quite good. Don't give me that look.

As Smmenen more or less mentioned in his article, it was the subject of "scrutiny," so to speak, because it had a novel ability and its casting cost was within the realm of decency, given some acceleration.

[Saucemaster]

Saucemaster I know who Mathieu is. I'm just saying with Steve's help in the article, it brought a better understanding. Duh!

Ouch.  I got schooled.  

[Toad]

My original article was mostly an introduction to the deck, and not a real primer explaining the matchups and a wider card analysis. This one is a primer, hence is more complete.

And it's "Matthieu", not "Mathieu"  

[MaxxMatt]

Congrats for the article. Well written and interesting.

I really like your Combo Version of Slavery and I'm sure it is superior to the Control one.

I'm sure that in a short time the increasing number of possible mirrors will oblige you to do some changes to avoid Simmetricity and Luck in a so crucial matchup ( as happened to Tog and Hulk in the past.. ). How do you plan to mute the side or the main to gain the needed advantage?
 
Lightning Greeves to protect your creatures and Slavers?
More Fats to put more pressure to the opponents and more Shamans to stop the Opponent Welder's recurision?


How is the matchup agaisnt an Ur-Phid deck? He can pack Blood Moons, Shamans, Wastes, Kegs or Fires and has a decent draw enginecomparable to yours, plus a superior number of counters. Another point to underline is that if you Slave Ur-Phid, it canno't be so effective as if you would have Slaved anyone other deck. I see that the "8MenPlan" after siding, would be the more effective choice to do, even if he can pack R&R and H.Recall to not be Slaved or Slayed so simply. I think that it is another 50/50 as for Keeper.
What do you think?

[Toad]

I really like your Combo Version of Slavery and I'm sure it is superior to the Control one.

IT IS NOT A COMBO DECK

Please please please please try to understand the deck before commenting it  

Who plays URPhids?  

[MaxxMatt]

Please please please please try to understand the deck before commenting it  

 :shock:
So if TheAtogLord version is "the COntrol Slavery"... why are you HUNGRY if I state that it is "the Combo Version" if compared to the previous one?  :shock: WorkshopSlavery is more appropriate? Ok, I'll refer to your deck as Slavery with MW.

I don't offende your work. on the other hand, I'll appreciate it a lot.
I UNDERSTOOD any one of the words in the article.
I'm sure that it is more powerful of the "SlaveryVersion WIth Mana Drains".

Who plays URPhids?

Ur-Phid decks have bad matchups only with DARgon,Monobrown and Madness. So it has problems with "Bazaar based decks" and "Aggro MW based decks".
It is well equipped to face and defeat ( if well played and metagamed )any other Aggro and/or Control decks all around the world. Maybe not so many players are playing it now, but it is always a good choice for the right tourney.

And, coming back to my point, I think that in a field full of Controls AND YourSlavery, Ur-Phid is a good deck to play. I think that you have considered the possibility to face one of them. So, only for this porpouse,  I'll ask to you another time, if you have a feeling about this matchup that differs a lot from mine. I think that it is a split agaisnt YourSlavery and that can do well . You?

I think to have been constructive with my post and not only "stupid" ( as you maybe ) are you trying to arguing.. no?
I'll ask about this specific matchup, because I usually face a lot of Ur-Phid in my tourneys, and, due to the fact that the deck ideas and card choices and the test results are yours, it make a lot of sense for me talking about it.

Tell me where I'm wrong.

[jpmeyer]

...and this is the reason why some people would rather the decks be called "Workshop Slaver" and "Drain Slaver."

[Zherbus]

... or the even more PC name "Mana Drain Slaver".

[defector]

For Smemmy and Toad:  I see that you cut Trisk main for 2nd Pentavus.  How is that working?  I run 1 of on each of those boys and don't know about going into a tourney without a trisk main
defector

[jpmeyer]

Triskellion makes you think that you're controlling the board because it can physically kill things, but Pentavus usually controls better by like neutralizing the entire board. while beating for a lot.

[defector]

Point taken, but what about neccessary spot removal(welder mainly).
defector

[jpmeyer]

Opposing Welders are just another way to recur your Mindslavers

[Ultima]

Opposing Welders are just another way to recur your Mindslavers

 That seems to be of the same opinion as ELD for control slaver mirrors and workshop matchs.  However, i recall watching Smmenen 's friend in Conn. during the tournament say something like " he's got a welder out, i don't think i can win." and this was a slaver mirror.  It seems more logical that the slaver with removal for opposing welders is the Slaver that wins.

Unless your just hoping to get out your welders and mindslaver first everytime.  That's very optimistic IMO.

[DEA]

why wouldn't he be able to win?
with an opposing welder, a resolved activation of slaver gets you all the slaves you want  :lol:
maybe it's the board position, but i've always been happy to see a welder on the other side of the table when i have enough mana to cast AND activate a slaver

[theorigamist]

Opposing Welders are just another way to recur your Mindslavers

I can't think of a situation where I would have a Triskelion and the opponent would have a Welder that I CAN'T use for my own Mindslaver.  Why?  Because if you can get out a Triskelion, in most situations, you could've done most of the same things (whatever mana acceleration you used for the Trike, card drawing/tutoring, discarding, Weldering) to instead put out a Mindslaver.  And in the mirror, you would go for Mindslaver first anyway.  So people are talking about a situation in which player A has Trike, player B has Welder, and player A wants to kill the Welder.  But from what I've seen of the deck, the more realistic situation would be: player A has Trike, player B has Welder, player A wants to use player B's Welder to infinitely recur their own Mindslaver, and that would be easier if their Trike was a Pentavus.

So, in my opinion, if you need to go for a Trike to deal with a Welder, you're making a play error by not going for the Slaver instead and using the Welder.

Edit: If it's not clear by what I say, I am elaborating on JP's point, not trying to argue against it.

[Shadow Ninja]

Mindslaver, more so than any other card, has created a schism in the old definitions and blurred the lines between archetypes. In a single card, it has the effect of doing, in conjunction with as few as one other card, what it took a highly experienced and skilled Workshop Prison player many mulligans, tuning, and thoughtful plays to accomplish before. The results? Workshop Prison is a strictly inferior concept. Workshop Prison has to impact the board immediately ? while a Mindslaver deck can luxuriously idle until the moment that it springs forth and takes control of every turn in the game thereafter.

A well written article on a very good deck.  However, Smmenen, if I ever meet you in person I may feel compelled to challenge you to a dramatic knife fight, complete with background music (Phil, who has requested to be referred to as Mad Doctah Phil-van, suggested West Side Story music, but I'm open to other suggestions).  This is of course because your Slaver builds are beginning to make Workshop Prison, my favorite deck, near obsolete.  It is not your fault you're good at building decks, but you may just have to pay the consequences of your evil deeds!

And by the way, if anyone out there is dense enough to take this as anything other than jest, I hope a swarm of crazed geeks tramples them on their way to a comic con.

[Ultima]

I really don't unerstand the logic that i'm hearing for this arguement.  If your opponent gets the first welder, what makes you all so sure you'll resolve or have a mindslaver at all.  Moreoever, there is a near inevitable situation that your opponent will using his welder to screw up your manabase.  The player with the first welder to resolve is the player to most likely get to the slaver lock first, not vice versa.  One of the main reasons that control slaver beats workshop slaver is because they pack MD removal for opposing welders.

[The Atog Lord]

Because if you can get out a Triskelion, in most situations, you could've done most of the same things ... to instead put out a Mindslaver.

If you can get into play and activate the Mindslaver in the same turn, then, this certainly works. However, consider the situation in which you have the six mana necessary to resolve the Mindslaver, but not the mana necessary to activate that Slaver. Then, there is an excellent chance the the opposing Goblin Welder will transform the Mindslaver into something far less useful before you get the chance to use it.

[Shadow Ninja]

Because if you can get out a Triskelion, in most situations, you could've done most of the same things ... to instead put out a Mindslaver.

If you can get into play and activate the Mindslaver in the same turn, then, this certainly works. However, consider the situation in which you have the six mana necessary to resolve the Mindslaver, but not the mana necessary to activate that Slaver. Then, there is an excellent chance the the opposing Goblin Welder will transform the Mindslaver into something far less useful before you get the chance to use it.

I'm guessing you wouldn't cast the Slaver in that situation unless you could activate it in the same turn, though.  That is, unless you planned on letting your opponent Weld it out so you can Weld it back in and use it next turn or something, but that requires having your own Goblin Welder active at that point.