[Unfounded Speculation] Joiner Adept

[Dr. Sylvan]

Joiner Adept

Plus points for:
Exalted Angel
Forest
Future Sight
Living Wish
Morphling
Starstorm
Survival of the Fittest
Vindicate
...other cards I can't think of at the moment.

Minus points for:
Blood Moon
Wasteland
...other cards I can't think of at the moment.

I have such an untested, unfounded boner for this card, which is unfortunate because I don't like the art. I'm such a n00b. :<

Discuss.

[Machinus]

Maybe if sunburst turns out not to suck? Or there are cards with ACC that has something to do with colored mana that produce a desirable effect. You would think that with this and witness, there would be some motivation to try out 5 color aggro-control something or other, but it is just not good.

[Ric_Flair]

She will be an absolute bomb in Limited.  Just incredible.  She might even find some use in Extended.  Wouldn't be bitchin if there were a good Domain deck.  

Phil, is the boner over her potential role in Enchantress maybe?  I can't think of any deck in Vintage right now that would need this card, though it would be a great surprise for Oshawa Stompy to cast Necro or something.

[Dr. Sylvan]

Hmm. Enchantress. Probably not. There's no red or blue cards that really are begging for inclusion, the black that wants in is earlier-game than Joiner (ie, Duress), and the fundamental problem of the deck is a twofold reliance on Argothian Enchantress and, well, enchantments, which suck. So I don't see this helping that.

My thoughts were more along the line of a TnT- or mychoda-type thing taking advantage of more colors. Survival would have infinite green mana, and the door to other colors of creatures is wide open. This is also why I listed Living Wish, because it can get an appropriate creature depending on whether or not you have a Joiner.

And there has to be some way to make Future Sight broken in an aggressive deck. It has "just friggin' win" written all over it. If I could play FS and SotF in the same deck, that would officially be "million boners" material as far as I'm concerned.

Naturally, whatever this does probably won't be good enough to compete with what I already know to be the good decks, but since TnT is super-neato-cool (and mychoda is also a peanut gallery favorite), I feel speculation is worthwhile.

[Roxas]

I can see it being used in some sort of three-color aggro-control deck akin to EBA.  This probably a very, very long shot, but Joiner Adept might make some sort of Counter-Sliver deck possible.  

The biggest problem I see with it is that, if your deck becomes too much centered around it, then you become very susceptible to enemy removal -  we all know that a 1-toughness creature is probably the most easy-to-remove card in Magic.

[The Hamburgler]

The only places I see it in is decks that need an answer to Blood Moon (maybe 'Tog sideboard?) and maybe a one-of in Dragon as some tech for something or other. I have put zero testing in it, so my predictions are very vague (give me another dollar and I'll get a bit more clear  :lol: ).
- The Hamburgler

[Swanky]

I used to love 5CG back in the days of Mirage Block for some inexplicable reason.  While those days are dead and have been destroyed without possibility of regeneration (that is, buried), she definitely has casual potential in conjuction with Quirion Dryad.

I agree with Ric- she'll be a coveted Limited prize.  I wouldn't pass her up.

I can't help but feel as though there will be some variety of Gro deck in Extended that will utilize the Adept.  Unfounded speculation is pretty fun.

The art leaves something to be desired.  Christopher Rush should stick to flora!

[Hi-Val]

I think that we can all agree that the best part of this is that it makes Bazaar tap for mana.

W00t!

[sparticus216]

not sure if you were serious....
but it would give it:
T: draw 2 discard 3
T: Add 1 of any color

[yodoblec]

I really don't see this being much of an impact on t1, it could be useful in wtf.dec to help smooth out mana though.

[Jacob Orlove]

I really don't see this being much of an impact on t1, it could be useful in wtf.dec to help smooth out mana though.

I'd rather play [card]Grizzly Bears[/card]. At least they don't die to fire/ice (hint: this would be bad in WTF).

[yodoblec]

I'd rather play Grizzly Bears. At least they don't die to fire/ice (hint: this would be bad in WTF).

Grizzly Bears do die to Fire/Ice.

[Dr. Sylvan]

I'd rather play Grizzly Bears. At least they don't die to fire/ice (hint: this would be bad in WTF).

Grizzly Bears do die to Fire/Ice.

They use up the entire Fire though. Joiner would invite 2-for-1age. That's what he meant.

If something is going to use it, I doubt it will be as just a "mana smoother" for a two-color deck. Fetchlands make it too easy to have enough of everything, even in most three-color decks. However, think Solemn Simulacrum's role in TnT, but without the Workshops.

Give me a minute to edit in a decklist.

Edit: Realized I don't quite know what such a deck would look like. Hunh.

[Meddling Mike]

Well, maybe before fetchlands showed up, this little lady may have had a place, but the mana around now is consistent enough that I doubt most decks will have a place for it. And most decks with green right now are mono-color and have no use for some blood moon hate (like Ostompy) or have only a very small splash for certain cards (Like river boa and oxidize in worse than fish or for berserk/dryads in tog variants) As a result, I really don't think the card has much type I potential with the current metagame.

She will be an absolute bomb in Limited. Just incredible.

I agree with Ric- she'll be a coveted Limited prize. I wouldn't pass her up.

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with you on this one Ric, a 2/1 for 2 with an ability is fine, a little worse than a bear with a decent benefit. The thing is, she's a rare, so you'll only get one, and you can't draft your deck around her, and running basically any cards in any color you see fit, what happens if you don't draw her? It's also a little arrogant to think that she'll be able to stay on the table indefinitely unless you have multiple whispersilk cloaks and lightning greaves. I'd say she's playable if you're already playing green as she's a good mana fixer, but I wouldn't even think of her as a first pick personally. This is Mirrodin block, not invasion.

[Matt]

Have you SEEN the Fifth Dawn cards? Like half the set has an alternate play cost of {G}{B}.

[Meddling Mike]

Have you SEEN the Fifth Dawn cards? Like half the set has an alternate play cost of {G}{B}.

The spoiler I just saw had five creatures with that alternate cost, and they're all rares, in booster draft, somehow I doubt I'd ever see that combo come to fruition, and I certainly wouldn't waste a first pick banking on it.

[Jacob Orlove]

Keep in mind that you'll be drafting 5th dawn cards AFTER seeing everything you have for Mirrodin and Darksteel. It's easily possible that you'll already be set up to be green/X with a splash or two off sylvan scrying, journey of discovery, and reap and sow, so this could be a reasonable pick.

[Meddling Mike]

Keep in mind that you'll be drafting 5th dawn cards AFTER seeing everything you have for Mirrodin and Darksteel. It's easily possible that you'll already be set up to be green/X with a splash or two off sylvan scrying, journey of discovery, and reap and sow, so this could be a reasonable pick.

I'm not saying that the card is unplayable, if indeed you did somehow have the foresight to draft a deck that makes splashing easy, taken a few powerful cards from other colors worth splashing for, and there's nothing else that stands out in the pack, then sure, take the joiner. I personally don't think that draft strategy is terribly good unless you were already aware that a joiner was coming. So unless you have already cultivated a strategy that has synergy with the joiner, it really doesn't strike me as a limited bomb.

[Matt]

The Sunburst mechanic also counts as ways to abuse this card.

[Dxfiler]

woo!  limited discussion!  

I'm with the meddling mage on this one.  I don't see joiner being a high pick in limited unless you cracked one of the bringer of dawns.  Even then you could make an argument for passing the joiner, depending on the myr/ingot/journeys you already had.  Of course I'm posting this opinion without having seen the full spoilers, but this is not invasion.  Joiner doesn't seem to be a  high pick at the moment because if you don't have some sunburst guy, it's not going to really do anything.  Yes, it could help if you have a third color splash, but it's just not looking like high pick material... this coming from a man who has drafted mirrodin green over 300 times :-p

- Dxfiler

[defector]

Sorry Dr., i don't see much here.  It would be nice to have something to smooth out the limitations of bazar and workshop, but I don't know if a vulnerable creature is the answer.  I feel you though, I'm popping boners over a pos artifact that costs 8.
defector

[Matt]

I really suspect that Wizards knows very well the stresses they're putting on drafters by going "colorless set, colorless set, OMG SUPER COLORED SET," and that the rewards offered by declaring yourself 4CG or 5CG early will pay off by giving you access to ANY fifth dawn bomb.

Wizards playtests for limited far more than for ANY other format, possibly more than every constructed format combined. If they're pushing a mechanic this hard - especially here at the end of the block, where you take a real risk by dedicating yourself to multicoloredness early - you can bet it will be very worthwhile to follow their lead. They're not going to tempt you into a huge risk (going many colors in the mostly artifact block) without a huge payoff.

[Meddling Mike]

I really suspect that Wizards knows very well the stresses they're putting on drafters by going "colorless set, colorless set, OMG SUPER COLORED SET," and that the rewards offered by declaring yourself 4CG or 5CG early will pay off by giving you access to ANY fifth dawn bomb.

Wizards playtests for limited far more than for ANY other format, possibly more than every constructed format combined. If they're pushing a mechanic this hard - especially here at the end of the block, where you take a real risk by dedicating yourself to multicoloredness early - you can bet it will be very worthwhile to follow their lead. They're not going to tempt you into a huge risk (going many colors in the mostly artifact block) without a huge payoff.

According to the orb of insight, only 16 cards have the word sunburst on them from this set, considering that you'll only be getting one pack of them, it just doesn't strike me as a sound draft strategy. Maybe it might be a little better in team limited where a huge cardpool will allow you to run multiples of these cards you would be aware of the presence of splash friendly cards while building the deck. For now that's all that I see, I suppose we'll find out when the full spoiler is available.

[Matt]

Well there's the sunburst cards and the Bringers and probably a lot more stuff. It adds up, and it's not like being able to draft from every color is TOTALLY useless in pack two - you can still grab Fireballs AND Purge for your green deck, and so on. Like I said, it's a risk, but it's not like you're throwing away your consistency just for dinky little cards like Pentad Prism, you're doing it for insane card power.

[Meddling Mike]

Sorry Dr., i don't see much here.  It would be nice to have something to smooth out the limitations of bazar and workshop, but I don't know if a vulnerable creature is the answer.  I feel you though, I'm popping boners over a pos artifact that costs 8.
defector

Personally, if I thought this card had potential ANYWHERE in type I, it would indeed be Ostompy, and the fact of the matter is that Ostompy doesn't need a guy to make wastes and bazaars a bit more effective. I'd say Viridian Zealot will be better in so many cases, and almost all Ostompy decks don't run four of those main deck, sure you could run one as a survival target, but if you've already got the survival engine online, I doubt anybody's going to be using their bazaars for anything but their intended purpose as you would be able to get your squees and go nuts and what have you. I could see this card having some potential in the right decks in the future, but not in type I right now IMO.