5th Dawn Card - Auriok Salvagers

[MrZuccinniHead]

Well now...
There's obvious infinite mana with a Black Lotus.
Any thoughts?

[jpmeyer]

Most cards win the game when combined with Black Lotus

[The Grim Reaper]

It costs too much mana and it's white.
(inserts obligatory dragon and draw 7 are better comment)

Kthxbai.

[rvs]

It costs too much mana and it's white.
(inserts obligatory dragon and draw 7 are better comment)

Kthxbai.

even though this card sucks, what you are saying is not true. You can first create an inf. amount of white mana (:ph34r:), and then start recurrring it for good mana.

[Ephraim]

You don't even have to create all the white mana first. As long as you generate white every other time you sacrifice the Lotus, you can go infinite.

Play/Sac Lotus: {W}{W}
Return Lotus:
Play/Sac Lotus: {R}{R}
Return Lotus: {R}
Play/Sac Lotus ...

I think the complaint was more that Auriok Salvagers was white. I don't think that's entirely fair here. Here we have a two-card combo (albeit, one of which is Black Lotus) that generates infinite coloured mana. Isn't Dragon a two-card combo that generates infinite mana of specific colours (ie: limited to the lands you have in play). Eventually, WotC will print enough good White cards that it will no longer be true that White sucks in Type 1, but slavish devotion to the idea that it must suck in Type 1 is going to prevent people from seeing it.

[Swanky]

Eventually, WotC will print enough good White cards that it will no longer be true that White sucks in Type 1, but slavish devotion to the idea that it must suck in Type 1 is going to prevent people from seeing it.

Here here.  I feel as though Magic will always be a game where one color (sans the omnipotent Blue) will always be "Green."  I've been happy to see Green's convalescence in the format, but in the process of Green's "mainstreaming" White was ushered out the back door and taken away a la Mussolini.  I doubt there will ever be a time when all colors are (to an extent) equally enjoyed in a competitive sense.  

But I have a dream, ladies and gentlemen... :P

It's been said in the past, and I wholeheartedly agree: All white needs is an efficient way to draw cards.  The idea of "good cantrips" was introduced; I'd say that's plausible.

[Meddling Mike]

Isn't Dragon a two-card combo that generates infinite mana of specific colours

The difference between the Dragon Combo and this is as follows:

This combo requires two cards, one of which is restricted, therefore the combo is far more likely not to occur.

The Dragon Combo can work with either animate dead OR necromancy, This combo is FAR more likely to go off.

The Dragon combo can do more than simply produce infinite mana, it also draws you infinite cards and allows you to deck your opponents, if it could only produce infinite mana, it wouldn't be that good.

[Ephraim]

To be fair, Dragon only draws infinite cards when it's got a Bazaar of Baghdad or Compulsion on the table. I'm not saying that this isn't also very likely, but to do that it requires an additional card. Then, it also requires Ambassador Laquatus to deck the opponent. Combine the Auriok Salvagers/Black Lotus combo with Compulsion and Laquatus and you can do the same thing with it.

[Bastian]

I'm going to post this in here because this card IS NOT A RUMOUR. It's a confirmed and previewed card today on Mtg.com.



Combine it with either Lion's Eye Diamond or Black Lotus and... you have infinite mana! Weee... Another infinite mana combo, although probably harder to pull out than the worldgorger since the combo pieces are restricted...

[MiikeB]

This could become ridiculous (sp?) if the mtgnews spoiler is right about trinket mage (a 2/2 for U2 that lets you search for a 1 or less cc artifact when it cip).  Not to mention you would have tinker, englightened tutor and maybe even fabricate without even having to splash a third color.  The only problem I see is that you would need to find a kill card making it effectivley a 3 card combo, although compulsion could double as search and dig for the kill card.

[Bastian]

Here's a cute idea. I manage to goldfish nearly always either on turn 2-3.

3 Magma Mine
1 Braingeyser
1 Stroke of Genius
4 Fabricate
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Demonic Tutor
4 Auriok Salvagers
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Necropotence
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Windfall
1 Memory Jar
1 Tinker
1 Timetwister
1 Time Walk
1 Ancestral Recall
4 Force of Will

1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Mana Crypt
5 Moxes
1 Black Lotus
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Tolarian Academy
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
2 Glimmervoid
1 Undiscovered Paradise

It's pretty sketchy and missing a card or two, and I know that if the deck proves good enough that other people will improve it. Were just left to figure out if this is actually better and worth playing than the other dozens of solid combo decks already existing in type 1.

[MrZuccinniHead]

i already made a thread like this yesterday...

Threads Merged.
-Jacob

[Fastbond]

Actually, using Chromatic Sphere to draw infinite cards would be better.  So you need, this card and black lotus and chromatic sphere in the grave to go off.  Being a creature is an advantage because you can run oath of druids in the sideboard or even main.  Cast turn one oath of druids.  Run Duress and Force of Will to stall them from getting rid of the oath.  Then when they play a creature hopefully you get a lion's eye diamond or black lotus and chromatic sphere in the grave.  Then draw out your deck and cast the kill card.  All you need to go off is one land and a mox.

Here's a sample deck:

Kill:
X4 Oath of Druids
X4 Auriok Salvagers
X4 Chromatic Sphere
X1 Lion's Eye Diamond
X1 Tendrils of Agony

Protection:
X4 Duress
X4 Force of Will
X4 Mana Drain
X2 Disrupt

Tutors:
X4 Intuition
X4 Deep Analysis
X1 Ancestral Recall
X1 Time Walk

Mana:
X10 Solomoxencryptvaultpetal
X1 Tolarian Academy
X4 City of Brass
X4 Gemstone Mine

[Bastian]

This combo requires two cards, one of which is restricted, therefore the combo is far more likely not to occur.

Actually the restricted components of this deck: LED or Lotus can be easily searched and put into play thanks to Fabricate, which adds the tutor power the deck needs. Add a kill method that can be tutored for with Fabricate and doesn't need to be in your hand to kill: Magma Mine and the deck starts falling into place;)

[xrizzo]

Actually, using Chromatic Sphere to draw infinite cards would be better.  So you need, this card and black lotus and chromatic sphere in the grave to go off.  Being a creature is an advantage because you can run oath of druids in the sideboard or even main.  Cast turn one oath of druids.  Run Duress and Force of Will to stall them from getting rid of the oath.  Then when they play a creature hopefully you get a lion's eye diamond or black lotus and chromatic sphere in the grave.  Then draw out your deck and cast the kill card.  All you need to go off is one land and a mox.

Oath is NOT the way to go.  Oath sucks.

This card is not as bad as many people make it out to be.  I think it could be a cute combo and possibly be something better after more development is done.  Is it as good as dragon?  Not right now.  At least the ability can be used the first turn he comes into play...  

...and once you get infinite mana, it doesn't matter much how you kill, there are plenty of ways to incorporate a kill into the deck...  you could even 'just add bazaar' squee and use dragons kills.  (not that I think that is the best solution)

[ill_Dawg]

Why no intuition?

-=ADAM=-

[Bastian]

Why should I? If it's just for the Salvagers the draw 7s and black tutors should be enough. Intuition for a LED or Lotus? Impossible, not to mention Fabricate can get me those restricted pieces and I can play them right then.

[jpmeyer]

I'm going to lock this thead because there's another one going on in open and we don't need duplicate threads.

[TheAdvantage]

How has Force been with only 11 non Force blue spells?  Is it still reliable or have you only been goldfishing?

Also, do you see this evolving into a Tendrils deck?  It seems to be the natural progression as ideally you'll be recasting your Lotus umpteen times, but you have 5 slots devoted to kill cards(3 Mine, 'geyser, Stroke) whereas draw7 and the like can get away with 1 or 2, at max.  Do you think you can get by with 1 Mine with 4 Fabricates, or have you tested it?  If you dont think this will evolve into a Tendrils deck, could you explain why?

Infinite mana always yields a warm fuzzy feeling, but is butchering the mana base to add white really worth it when you could play draw7 instead?

I'm not trying to bash at all, I'm just curious to see what kind of opinions you have as the one who's been doing the most testing.

[Colossus]

Why wouldn't intuition be worth it?  If you have the Auriok dude in play and you pick black lotus, led and something else good no matter what they do you only need two mana to start off the combo.  So I guess if you can generate 5 mana in single turn, with him in play you can win.  

Admittedly there are less possible combo pieces than with Dragon (where in there are like 3 possible enchantment ressurectors) wheresas here you need this dude and lotus, but the combo is a bit more reliable in its play (against dragon if they remove dragon while the remove from play trigger is on the stack you're done, well at least until you get around to setting up the combo, whereas here if they remove a piece from play, or the yard, you just trigger the ability in response). . .

I dunno, I like the idea of it, but I'm not sure how well it'll work out. . . Compulsion may be useful? Two mana to filter through cards to hit you win condition. . . 2 being the magic number that floats one and all. . .I bet  you could make this deck run only 2-3 colors, which is always a good thing- Perhaps white, blue and green?

  That gives you the essential pieces, all the power of blue (lets be honest almost every type I deck has blue in it) and creature fetch from green. . . . if you run worldy tutors and or living wishes (with one Auriok in the board) you're effectively running more copies of the guy.  Running intuitions, fabricate, enlightened tutor pumps up the effective number of lotus, while a mystical tutor can get you the fetch you need for either piece on two turns notice (or a draw card). . .

The question is, what kill card to use?  I don't know of a good one of the top of my head that isn't just a copy cat (laquatous, ect.) . . . I think it would be intensely cute if there was a kill card that used white mana, I don't know why, but its just an idea. . .  Leonin Sun Standard? It costs two and then like 3 to activate I think. . . so you reuse the black lotus to gain a million mana, make the auriok a million/million and 2 and swing . . . having used compulsion to cycle through for a berserk. . . heh, just an idea.

If you go with that you could intuition for berserk, black lotus, lion's eye- they have to give you something other than the berserk, which either gives you the mana to start off the combo with the LED, or else just lets you start out with the lotus.  Heh, if they give you the berserk you just need two mana to get going.

Just some random thoughts. . .

[dicemanx]

Unfortunately, this deck will always be a hard sell over Rector Trix, which also depends on a 4-cc white creature but has more disruption and runs a more stable combo. The big issue is the fact that a kill card is required, making this a more unweldly 3 card combo. I'd rather run Compulsions than Magma Mines so at least your combo components are more useful outside of the combo, and Intuition also makes sense here.

Cute trick nontheless. It looks like 5D is going to give us lots of combo possibilities in T1. This, CoW, Staff of Domination etc.

[Zherbus]

I think you should examine why would you play with this over Rector?

[gashole]

I think it would be intensely cute if there was a kill card that used white mana

If you're going for the cutest swing-to-win route, I would think [card]Astral Steel[/card] would be the preferred method.

[Colossus]

If you're going for the cutest swing-to-win route, I would think Astral Steel would be the preferred method.

Does this deck run enough fast spells to play this>
Another idea- get the combo out, then use it to Compulsion through and playh a Future Sight. .  that will let you play through all the spells you could possibly need to pump up the storm. . . if you get stalled out by a land, compulsion it away and in desperation burn the compulsion to draw a card.  .  . since you have INFINITE mana no reason not to stock that singular Mind's Desire as a "win more card".

In the end, your right, I don't know how this deck will stack up to rector trix, since I've not playtested it (haven't had time since the preview was released. . . that and my only worthy type I opponant in my hometown doesn't play rector, not his style.) But I think its obviously worth a shot.[/quote]

[Fastbond]

Advantages of Salvager combo over Rector combo:

-It doesn't matter how much life you have when you put Salvager into play.
-Salvager can't be stifled

Disadvantages:
-Root Maze, Null Rod, etc hurts the combo

You could also run both.

Creatures:
X4 Auriok Salvagers
X4 Academy Rector
X4 Elvish Spirit Guide

Kill:
X1 Time Walk
X4 Chromatic Sphere
X1 Timetwister
X1 Regrowh
X1 Black Lotus
X1 Lion's Eye Diamond

Card Draw:
X1 Ancestral Recall
X1 Yawgmoth's Bargain

Protection:
X4 Duress
X4 Cabal Therapy
X4 Unmask

Utility:
X2 Intuition
X1 Chain of Vapor

Mana:
X4 City of Brass
X4 Gemstone Mine
X1 Tolarian Academy
X9 Sopetalmoxencryptvault
X4 Dark Ritual

[bomholmm]

Lion's Eye Diamond doesn't care about root maze it doesn't need to be tapped to activate it.

[NoYuo]

While you are generating infinite mana, you could also have Disciple of the Vault in play as an alternate win condition. Having your opponent lose 1 life every time you cycle your Black Lotus or Lion's Eye Diamond.

[virus-r]

I am just starting to float ideas about a possible deck built around this card and it's possible combo-liciousness.  

4 Auriok Salvagers
4 Dark Ritual
3-4 Conjurer's Bauble
2 Decree of Justice
7 SoLoMoxen
Lion's Eye Diamond
Lotus Petal
Mana Crypt
Mana Vault
Memory Jar
Demonic Tutor
Vampiric Tutor
Necropotence
Yawgmoth's Will
Ancestral Recall
Time Walk
Tinker
Mystical Tutor
Enlightened Tutor

The deck does not contain 60 cards because I am not sure about
1)  the mana base
2)  whether to add 3-4 Brainstorm, 2-3 Cunning Wish, 4 FoW, and 4 Mana Drain for control
3)  whether to add cards for disruption

The deck should allow you to generate infinite mana from the Black Lotus or Lion's Eye Diamond.
Then use a some of that mana to re-use the Conjurer's Bauble over and over to draw your entire library and "regrow" all of your graveyard to find a Decree of Justice and Time Walk.  Then, create enough soldiers or angels, cast Time Walk, and win next turn.
The beauty of Conjurer's Bauble is that if you cast (or cycle) Decree or Time Walk and if it is countered (or Stifled), you can put it in your graveyard, sac the Bauble to put it on the bottom of your library, then draw it since that is the only card in your library and cast it again for the win.
The Bauble also allows you to play Mystical, Enlightened, and Vampiric Tutor to tutor for a specified card, then sac the Bauble to put a graveyard card on bottom of your library, and draw the card you tutored for.

Any ideas on whether this deck could be viable and/or how to make it viable would be appreciated.

[Batle]

Everyone seems to be a big fan of the "combo" going of Turn wery fast. why?
Why not make it a more controlish deck with a combo kill.

running both drains and Fow would be grat in this deck I think, because the you can cast your salvager of the mana and go off.

Artificer's Intuition would also be a great card, finding all of your combo pieces, and with full power you should always have cards to discard to it. and also it can fetch bot lotus AND a win condition in pyrite spellbomb, and not is the spellbomb only a win condtion, it removes welders wich makes the slavery match-up alot better.

People compares this combo to the dragon saying that the dragon is so much faster, and better. But what people is not saying is that this combo doesn't die to stifle. you don't loose all of your permanents to chain of vapor, STP, diabolic edict, disenchant, naturalize.

Also the graveyard hate is not that dangerous to this deck, because you will propobly not have both the lotus and the diamond in your graveyard before you have played a salvager, and when salvager is in play you can just return them in respons on a crypt, coffin purge, whatever. And against hate the control element als shines through.

The only problem in the deck might be the mana base going into 4 collors, but it should still not be a big problem.
I'm not saying that it's the new tech, but it's worth testing at least.

-Atle

Avoid posting two copies of the same post by hitting "Submit" only once. -Dr. Sylvan

[MrZuccinniHead]

i like the idea of combining the rector and this deck, but does it lose consistensy?  It doesn't seem like too much of a burden,