Demography Poll #1: Age - BASIC USERS ONLY

[Bram]

PLEASE PLEASE do not vote on this poll unless you're a BASIC USER. I'll be doing the same thing in the other community forums, to get a feel for how the two groups differ (if at all).

[lilmidget]

yes! first one!

[Addolorisi]

I hate being on the very end of a bracket. Especially the upper end. =/

Bram, is this just a personal curiosity you have?

[Ephraim]

I hope that people actually take the time to vote for this one. It would be very cool if enough users responded to get a genuine distribution curve for the age ranges. Statistical analysis isn't my favourite thing in the world, but nor is it altogether dull.

[Bram]

Well, yeah. I'm a bit of a statistics freak. I've done this poll on the old boards a while back, and I'm wondering if there have been significant changes. Also, I want to know if there is a statistically significant age difference between the full members and the basic users.

Finally, I like to have a general idea of who I'm talking to. That's why I love the 'introduce yourself'  threads so much. This is a community, and half the time I don't know when I'm talking to an adult or a kid. Not that it really matters (it's one of the interesting characteristics of life on the intarweb) but I'd still like to know just the same.

Ephraim: I'll simply ban anyone who didn't vote

[Addolorisi]

More power to the statistics freak mods.  <3

And I know what you mean (even though introduction threads can be daunting to read through). It's getting harder and harder to tell a person's age just by looking at the posting style.

[Jander78]

It is nice to know who you are talking to.  It's really interesting to meet someone at a tournament and realize they are ten years younger than you, albeit a good percentage of the votes seem to be from users ten years younger than myself.  I honestly think that is one of the good things about forums, in real life I would probably shrug off most suggestions from a 14-15 year old, but due to the anonymous nature of the internet, bias is removed for the most part and you actually take the time to listen.

[wonkey_donkey]

Personally, I always find it intruiging to look at people's posts when they are well-written and comprehensible and wonder how old (roughly speaking) they are. I'm not sure why, it's just something I find interesting. Out of interest, how old do people think I am, for example (and combo_dude can't answer, as he's my brother   )? No answering if you already know the answer   . It's also strange if you know that someone is an adult but you can't tell whether they are around 20 or around 50.

Tom

[Ephraim]

I've typically avoided online introductions like the plague. One of the things I dread the most is entering a chat room and having somebody demand, a/s/l. My age ought to be inconsequential. If, after I've spoken with somebody for a while, they wish to know my age, I'll happily tell them at that time. It should not be a prerequisite for talking to me. The same goes for my sex and my location. Seldom do those items have bearing on the topic at hand.

I prefer for the quality and content of my posts to convey any relevant information. If I post "like an adult" would it matter if I were only sixteen? (for the record, I'm twenty-two). I really like that the anonyminity of the internet makes content-based first impressions possible.

[Thissa2]

<3 being the only 14-year old on TMD... except for ifflejink :S

[BWM]

just checking If I'm a basic...



:S

edit: Aaah


On a more serious note, Bram, shouldn't you just make the break-down not fair and stuff...

Like, it's obvious most people here are 10-30 (probably like 75%), so I'd cut it in other pieces (that wouldn't be all equally big)

And for chrissakes, where's the "I should still be playing Yugioh and I'm 6 years old-option"

[Bram]

Like, it's obvious most people here are 10-30 (probably like 75%),

Those are 4 categories. Stop whining I don't care if a person is 22 or 24. If you make too many categories:
1. people will be less inclined to vote
2. I might run out of space if I want 'even' categories up to higher ages
3. if I don't include higher age groups to fix above problem, the poll is meaningless
4. if I make the categories 'uneven' (i.e. 22, 23,24, 25-6o or something) to avoid the above problem) statistics on the numbers becoem increasingly difficult.

And for chrissakes, where's the "I should still be playing Yugioh and I'm 6 years old-option"

It's left out for the same reason as 'ph34r'

The same goes for my sex and my location.

'L' is for location? If someone asks me for my a/s/l I always said something to the effect of 24,m,9"

[rvs]

can BASIK USARs vote as well? Since it definately be interested in finding out if you will really ban him if he doesn't vote

[Bram]

lol

OK, new addition to the rules: any person with a custom title altered to be a facsimile of the term 'basic user' is not allowed to vote in here

[Ifflejink]

I expected that many more users would be 19+, but I was quite mistaken. I'm a bit surprised about the results, actually.
On another note, I see age as being irrelevant. Because I'm 14, many people that I know, mainly teachers, have a preconceived notion that my opinions are undeveloped and that I won't present my argument in an articulate way. (I think that I often defend my points well, especially on the subject of politics. *conceit*) I'm glad that on TMD, these age barriers aren't as prevalent due to the fact that most users have no idea what age others are.

[jpmeyer]

I expected that many more users would be 19+, but I was quite mistaken. I'm a bit surprised about the results, actually.
On another note, I see age as being irrelevant. Because I'm 14, many people that I know, mainly teachers, have a preconceived notion that my opinions are undeveloped and that I won't present my argument in an articulate way. (I think that I often defend my points well, especially on the subject of politics. *conceit*) I'm glad that on TMD, these age barriers aren't as prevalent due to the fact that most users have no idea what age others are.

I think that's because pretty much everyone remembers what they thought back at that age and then smacks themselves and says "boy, was I retarded!"

[theorigamist]

Back in like ninth grade a teacher of mine accused me of plagiarism, because she said that my essay was too well-written for somebody of my age.  I agree with Ifflejink that the age-based stereotypes can be frustrating.

On the other hand, data from a Magic website is probably not a very convincing argument against age-based stereotyping.  From what I can tell, we're mostly all math, physics and computer nerds, and the general TMDer is fairly bright.  Go to a site like Pojo and look at the stuff some little kids say.  It's disgusting.

[Machinus]

There are plenty of magic sites with both horrible forum quality and sometimes just as bad content. Older folks have the potential to be quite stupid and way more destructive because people pay attention to them (say, if they have a column at brainburst).

[Dr. Sylvan]

I'm not surprised TMDers are teenagers. People don't pick up Magic in college, they pick it up in junior high or high school and take it to college. As I understand the average player quits after 2-3 years, so really, a skewed sample of less-than-twenty-year-olds is exactly the most predictable result. This site is actually quite a bit greyer than the general Magic population, because the general Magic population doesn't even know what was in old Extended, let alone think someone is mentally deficient for not knowing the precise order of the old expansions as we assume on TMD.

[Ifflejink]

In my area, only a four or five people have been playing for over a year, and most of them don't even know any of the formats. This includes a few people over fourty, which is pretty sad. Stuff like this, on a lighter note, leeds to very, very little age-based stereotyping on TMD and other forums.

[Chaos Blade]

Pssh.. Thissa your not the only 14 year old here. I too hate age barriers. My english teach is freaking crazy. She gave me a C on a paper becuase it was to good. I had my dad chew her out for that. But other then that, by the way I talk you can all tell im around 13-14.

[Bram]

Because I'm 14, many people that I know, mainly teachers, have a preconceived notion that my opinions are undeveloped and that I won't present my argument in an articulate way.

They're partly right. Not on the second count obviously, but presumably on the first. While you are no doubt much more articulate and quite possibly more intelligent than your peers, it is safe to say that because of your age, your opinions ARE in fact underdeveloped. This, however, need not be a bad thing. It is a well-known fact that at age 14, your brain is still developing. Moreover, it's developing at an alarming rate, not previously equalled since you were in the womb. From a biological viewpoint, new neural pathways are shaped. From a more sociological standpoint, you have rather recently been shaping your very own opinions on matters. At, say, age 10, you also believed you had opinions, but the truth is, you didn't. You just unknowingly mimiced your parents and/or your peers. These new-found opinions are subject to frequent change in the (near) future as you uncover more information. Eventually, you will form a more definitive set of values and you will have formed what your teachers would call a 'developed' opinion (note the distinct difference between that an an 'informed' opinion).

In the words of the great Jack Kelly: "It's easy to judge when you're only fifteen / it must be great to know everything."

HOWEVER: the mistake made by many, many people all over the world (possibly your teacher, too) is to assume that because your opinions are, in a sense, underdeveloped, they are somehow worth less. This is not only false; I'd even go so far as to say in some cases the opposite may be true. When we reach adulthood, our brain loses flexibility. New neural pathways are not as easily created as they used to be. We become 'set in our ways' and frequently adhere to our set of values and opinions even when faced with evidence to the contrary. In this sense, opinions of the young and restless may be closer to 'the truth' than those of their elders, despite being based on a smaller amount of information and/or experience.

By the way, I don't expect you to agree with any of this right now. I'll ask you again in ten years or so

[Dr. Sylvan]

Yeah seriously. When I was 14 I thought I was the bomb, and other people were stupid for not making me the President so I could fix everything. I still think school is stupid, so ask me again in ten years on that one, but at 18 I feel waaaaaaaay different than I did at 14. When you're still an adolescent, you're always in a state more developed than you've ever been before, so you think "this is it, this is what adults must be like" except, damn, you're not done yet. I think puberty is done for me so I'm moving into "set in my ways, crochety adulthood" and my opinions are settling down into much more conventional things than I once would have thought possible.

The same works at the other end, too, though, after a fashion. IIRC you lose 5-10% of your brain's peak capacity every decade after you turn 25. So old people are mentally turning back into children, in a processing-capacity sense, if not in knowledge and attitudes. I would totally be in favor of a cap on voting age set at about 70 years old, because at that point you are almost automatically out of the mental game.

What I'll be interested to see is how many of us are still here in five years, interested in Magic or still tied into the community. I figure I will be because I already don't play any games of Magic (eliminating one of the big potential ways to quit) but who knows? Maybe I'll get tired of making tables. :)

[Bram]

You're TMD's resident carpenter then?

[Ephraim]

I suspect that I will still be playing Magic in five years -- even if Magic itself has gone under. I've been playing since 1994 and I suspect that as long as there are Magic cards for me to buy, I'll buy them.

Stupid kid that I was, I bought a lot of Revised and Fallen Empires, since they were cheap, and avoided Antiquities and Arabian Nights like the plague, since they were more expensive.

Looking back, it's hard to believe that the Urza's Block came out six years ago. I'm still inclined to treat it like a "recent" block, even though it's closer to the beginning of Magic than to the present!

[Jacob Orlove]

Looking back, it's hard to believe that the Urza's Block came out six years ago. I'm still inclined to treat it like a "recent" block, even though it's closer to the beginning of Magic than to the present!

I feel the same way about Mirage block. :/

[Ifflejink]

Bram, that was one of the most articulate, well-presented, and convincing arguments I've ever heard. I'm going to have to agree with you on that. So you know, my argument partially stems from my strong belief in reincarnation, as in a person in their fourties could be in their seventh or so incarnation, and some sixteen-year old could be in their 200th. I just think that the validity of an argument should be based on how convincing and informed it is, not on the age of a person arguing it.

[Dr. Sylvan]

Looking back, it's hard to believe that the Urza's Block came out six years ago. I'm still inclined to treat it like a "recent" block, even though it's closer to the beginning of Magic than to the present!

I feel the same way about Mirage block. :/

"Rath cycle" here. (I keep calling it Tempest block, but it was so long ago that it doesn't even obey modern naming conventions.)

You're TMD's resident carpenter then?

Oh man I should so quit being a carpenter so I can upgrade my title to "cooper". Barrels are so hottt.

[jpmeyer]

I suspect that I will still be playing Magic in five years -- even if Magic itself has gone under. I've been playing since 1994 and I suspect that as long as there are Magic cards for me to buy, I'll buy them.

Stupid kid that I was, I bought a lot of Revised and Fallen Empires, since they were cheap, and avoided Antiquities and Arabian Nights like the plague, since they were more expensive.

Looking back, it's hard to believe that the Urza's Block came out six years ago. I'm still inclined to treat it like a "recent" block, even though it's closer to the beginning of Magic than to the present!

I have something like that, too.  Tempest block felt like it just came out still, although strangely Odyssey felt like it was last it rotated out like ages ago.

[Unearthly]

At least the results arn't drastically different than the full members, although we do have more 15-19 year olds.  I agree with what MoreFling said on the registered community, a lot of us just go into the format for various reasons.  I'm 18, and only recently have I actually begun both testing and playing Type 1 competitively.  It's partly due to money, partly due to having a car to drive to tournaments with, and another part with meeting more people who play magic.  Thats how it is for me, at least.